| [ Total Views: 1217 | Total Replies: 16 | Thread Id: 84179 ] |
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 Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on June 9th, 2010 at 02:24 PM |
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Brake Upgrades - Solutions?
Sorry if its been Covered???
I am looking at upgrading brakes so i can get great response from my standard weight 69 Bug, I want to make sure i eleminate that light feeling you
get from the front end, and heavy rear feeling... eg the front lock up but you don't really stop???
I have done some reading about 944 conversions and also putting standard calipers on the rear with a little bit of work?
What am i getting out of 944 setups? can i just do the rears??? Can i just put a 944 disc on the rear and then mount standard type 1 calipers on the
rear and then an additional handbrake fitting??? Or even 944 rear standard front??? Bais valve (porportioning valve)
What will i get? Am i over working the system, should i just put type 3 rear drums on and go from there???
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modulus
A.k.a.: Peter Hill
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| posted on June 9th, 2010 at 03:33 PM |
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This might help...
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=36884&page=1
hth
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 vw54
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| posted on June 9th, 2010 at 07:13 PM |
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| Quote: |
eg the front lock up but you don't really stop???
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sounds like u need some new tyers
theres nuthing wrong with the brake system u already have but check if its up to scratch
do u have new hoses
are the rears adjusted correctly
do u have the soft front pads
are the front calipers working correctly
have u change the fluid lately
yes rear Type 3 drums or even discs will make a difference but check all the above first
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on June 9th, 2010 at 09:23 PM |
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2nd you Dave.
As Greg Mackie can tell you, Beetles raced at full speed all day at Bathurst in 1963 and 1964, with stock drum brakes on all four wheels. In 1963
Beetles came 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th in their class - the Beetles had better brakes than the Mini 850s.
A '69 with front discs has even better stock brakes. For normal driving they are excellent - when in good working order. You don't need to spend big
money on Porsche brakes. Spend a fraction of that money at a good VW workshop for a complete brake service.
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 matberry
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| posted on June 9th, 2010 at 09:29 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
2nd you Dave.
As Greg Mackie can tell you, Beetles raced at full speed all day at Bathurst in 1963 and 1964, with stock drum brakes on all four wheels. In 1963
Beetles came 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th in their class - the Beetles had better brakes than the Mini 850s.
A '69 with front discs has even better stock brakes. For normal driving they are excellent - when in good working order. You don't need to spend big
money on Porsche brakes. Spend a fraction of that money at a good VW workshop for a complete brake service.
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x 3
Stock brakes are better than most give credit for...brand new calipers are cheap.
What tyre pressures are you running?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on June 10th, 2010 at 08:49 AM |
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Thanks for the great replies guys, i am currently stripping the car and changing the rear to IRS is a probable at the moment, and am very interested
inthe idea of hillclimbing and supersprints... and want to be able to rely on good solid and effecient braking. Yes i will be relacing most brake
components so thought if i am going down this track then why not sort some improvements, i have read the VWCOOL thread and liked his ideas although
that seems mighty expensive (not saying they aren't great), another suggestion is type 3 front calipers (bigger pad area) and type 3 rear shoes... i
just done want to deal with a pedal that needs adjusting all the time.
Can you recommend a good soft pad and shoe brand then???
Thanks guys keep it coming it sounds good.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on June 10th, 2010 at 10:51 AM |
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Of course if you plan to take your VW racing, especially if you have more power than stock, then extra braking capacity is a good idea. Those Beetles
at Bathurst only had stock (blueprinted) 1200 40-hp engines.
Where are you located? We can probably suggest a good performance VW shop in your area that you can talk to. They could give a better idea of what can
be done for the budget you have in mind. Matt's workshop is a great place to start!
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on June 11th, 2010 at 12:39 AM |
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The brakes on the 69 should be sufficent ..
if You get MORE braking on the front , the front wheel will lock up and You don't stop...
Most of the braking is done with the front brakes...
unless some kind of bias is done to brake more on the rear..
its no problem to adjust the rear brakes...
and make sure You have no more than 20PSI in the front if You don't want to skid.. or lock the front wheels all the time..
and Very good tyres on the front...
You just need to learn NOT to brake too hard as the front will lock up very easily if hit hard...
on any surface...
cheers
LEE
PS: many people fit type 3 rear brakes on beetles as they are wider than the beetles, but still need adjusting... Lee
My Son bought new front brakes years ago for his beetle and the brake pads are much larger than normal beetles..
maybe type 3??
PPS: Put YOUR Location down... make a lot of difference...
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Aussie Dubbin
Sorry if its been Covered???
I am looking at upgrading brakes so i can get great response from my standard weight 69 Bug, I want to make sure i eleminate that light feeling you
get from the front end, and heavy rear feeling... eg the front lock up but you don't really stop???
I have done some reading about 944 conversions and also putting standard calipers on the rear with a little bit of work?
What am i getting out of 944 setups? can i just do the rears??? Can i just put a 944 disc on the rear and then mount standard type 1 calipers on the
rear and then an additional handbrake fitting??? Or even 944 rear standard front??? Bais valve (porportioning valve)
What will i get? Am i over working the system, should i just put type 3 rear drums on and go from there???
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 08:55 AM |
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Thnaks guys, Adelaide - changed now.
I had a Baja for many years with big rears and tiny fronts and had plauged braking problems, this time i am going for a bug that can roll handle and
stop, and want to get my head sorted onthe best path... from what ive heard on this thread and other reading, i'm thinking...
Either
Type 3 calipers front and Type 3 Read drums,
or
or 944 rear discs with either standard or type 3 front callipers.
Both setups i would probably look into using a balence bar or proportioning valve. (VWCOOL's sound good but at $2300 front and rear i'm looking for
cheaper alternatives.)
Thanks how does this sound
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1303Steve
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 08:59 AM |
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Hi
We have early Type 3 fronts & 944 rears on my sons car, it was just overbraked on the rear, we now have a proportioning valve and its sweet
now.
You can look at alternative brakes here http://www.germanlook.net/forums/
Steve
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bajachris88
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 09:16 AM |
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i got 69' disk front end and type 3 rear. type 3 wagon rears have a huge surface area in comparison, but i doubt it would make a bit improvement
while driving, unless i'm hooking up handbrake skids lol.
I rekon i would be more than sufficient with those two though. and easy for bits because its the best stock-options can offer.
With little quid, i was able to get new slave cylinders for the rear and calipers for the front.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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BiX
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 11:13 AM |
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Also have a look at specialist brake pad compunds. QFM here in rbisbane will bond new material to old pad backs.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 11:28 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
2nd you Dave.
As Greg Mackie can tell you, Beetles raced at full speed all day at Bathurst in 1963 and 1964, with stock drum brakes on all four wheels. In 1963
Beetles came 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th in their class - the Beetles had better brakes than the Mini 850s.
A '69 with front discs has even better stock brakes. For normal driving they are excellent - when in good working order. You don't need to spend big
money on Porsche brakes. Spend a fraction of that money at a good VW workshop for a complete brake service.
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x 3
Stock brakes are better than most give credit for...brand new calipers are cheap.
What tyre pressures are you running?
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That's all very true. Our car was the 5th Beetle, but was not blueprinted - it had 60000 miles up, so it was 'nicely run in'! I clocked 86 MPH down
Con-rod straight on one lap (got a good 'tow' behind a faster car), but never had an ounce of brake trouble all day. The Beetles out-braked most
cars on the track, not just the Minis!
After all the years of relying on the VW drums, I went and replaced my (worn) VW drums with inferior quality drums - that was a mistake, and I paid
dearly for it. Stick with GENUINE VW, if you want to stay with drums.
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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1303Steve
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 01:16 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by BiX
Also have a look at specialist brake pad compunds. QFM here in rbisbane will bond new material to old pad backs.
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Hi
Do they have a website or contact details?
Steve
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cnfabo
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 06:14 PM |
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u can adapt a bmw caliper on the front if u get the barckets for the wide bolt spacing type 3 caliper... the 914 guys do this as a upgrade.. as 914
fronts are the same as t3 volksy items... just google bmw caliper on a porsche 914, should be first link.......im going to have alook at this instead
of going the bigger type3 caliper....have fun...
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clinker42
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 09:36 PM |
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So do you guys think 4 wheel drums are fine on the 73 beetles, Ive been thinking of swapping to discs on the front but wondered if it was worth it. I
remember the HQ Holdens that came with discs on the front and NO booster and they where terrible, no better than 4 drums.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on June 11th, 2010 at 11:55 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by clinker42
So do you guys think 4 wheel drums are fine on the 73 beetles, Ive been thinking of swapping to discs on the front but wondered if it was worth it. I
remember the HQ Holdens that came with discs on the front and NO booster and they where terrible, no better than 4 drums.
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I would change to discs on the front..
no booster needed on beetles
and they do work great..
My brakes still surprise Me .. as they were designed in the late 60s..
Drums do work OK if kept adjusted... and You don't drive thru creeks etc...
Remember that no beetle ever had disc brakes in the USA..
and the last beetles were in 1978..
I recommend disc fronts on beetles.. IMHO..
LEE
PS: You must have a NON Super beetle with drums on the front... 1973
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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