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 Peter Leonard
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 09:19 PM |
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gearbox oil
Hi all, long time no write (but plenty of lurking)
About to do one of the most disgusting, stinky messy jobs of all time. And I don't work at KFC.
Been to BITOG, castrol, google, AVD and there's not exactly a wealth of info around on changing/upgrading your gearbox oil. What do you guys use
(those who've ever bothered to look at the boring workhorse in front of the engine)?
About the only thing I'm reasonably certain of is that I'll be using GL-4 rated oil. I've heard good things about syntorque, but it's not
something you see on the shelf at repco.
I've got a bottle of Castrol syntrans 75w-85 which is GL-4 and expensive enough that it should double as a GPS and cook dinner for me. Thoughts?
Experiences?
let sleeping dubs lie
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 68AutoBug
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 posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 09:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Peter Leonard
Hi all, long time no write (but plenty of lurking)
About to do one of the most disgusting, stinky messy jobs of all time. And I don't work at KFC.
Been to BITOG, castrol, google, AVD and there's not exactly a wealth of info around on changing/upgrading your gearbox oil. What do you guys use
(those who've ever bothered to look at the boring workhorse in front of the engine)?
About the only thing I'm reasonably certain of is that I'll be using GL-4 rated oil. I've heard good things about syntorque, but it's not
something you see on the shelf at repco.
I've got a bottle of Castrol syntrans 75w-85 which is GL-4 and expensive enough that it should double as a GPS and cook dinner for me. Thoughts?
Experiences?
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Hi Pete
Yes the hypoid oil does stink like no other oil... lol
I did fill My gearbox up with Castrol syntrax synthetic oil...
I have used 85w90 hypoid [GL4] oil before...
along with a MOLYBOND type additive..
only problem with synthetic oil is it seeps along the threads of studs and the bottom of My gearbox is always wet, although it never drips... lol
best to buy a litre a month... lol at those prices...
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 09:39 PM |
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cheers Lee, apart from all the leaks (expected in VWs) anyone else tried a synthetic like Syntrans? Not a big fan of additives (if they were really
worth it I expect they'd already be in the oil off the shelf...)
let sleeping dubs lie
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Gracey
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 09:51 PM |
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Hey dude,
I put Castrol Syntrax 75-90 in my gearbox several years ago (most I've paid for 3 litres of oil) and it shifts fine both when it's hot and cold.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 10:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Gracey
Hey dude,
I put Castrol Syntrax 75-90 in my gearbox several years ago (most I've paid for 3 litres of oil) and it shifts fine both when it's hot and cold.
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My original gearbox was sitting for 8 years with new GL4 hypoid oil in it...
which is what You don't do...
it eats into the brass/bronze bushes....
in the USA during winter they use another oil while the car sits out the winter away from the salt on the icy roads..
as its written in manuals over there...
the MOLY ADDITIVE stopped all the whinning over a 6 month period and I could eventually hear My radio etc...
the additive was PRO-MAR .. I triple dosed too..
highly recommended...
I have no additives in My gearbox now... [another gearbox]
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Gracey
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 10:32 PM |
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The syntrax 75-90 is GL-5
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 10:58 PM |
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Actually from what I've read it's the GL-5 that has the higher amount of EP additives which tend to attack 'yellow metals'. My Castrol SynTRANS
75w-85 is GL-4. GL-4 is supposed to have half the quantity of the naughty stuff in it. The only reason I'm doing this is i have a sneaking suspicion
that thirty years of abuse may have left me with SFA of anything vaguely oily in the gearbox.
OT- Good to see you haven't turned into a melon Andrew  How're your
eight plugs doing these days?
let sleeping dubs lie
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toplessbug
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 11:17 PM |
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i use this http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/Hypoid%2085W-140%20JAN%202010.pdf
look and you will see its gl5 ,which affords MUCH better protection than gl4 AND it does not attack copper alloys,i also put a tube of molybond in as
well, its the ducks guts for rotating parts
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
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Gracey
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 11:24 PM |
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Yeah that right 50% more additives, I haven't had any problem yet, touch wood. This is the oil Greg Ward uses in his hillclimb car, or at least was
using when he recommended it to me.
No mate, haven't turned into a melon yet, the eight plugs are doing just fine.
Good to see your still kicking.
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on July 22nd, 2010 at 11:56 PM |
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I think the MT-1 spec means it's safer for corrosion, but GL-5 _appears_ to be designed for different usage...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1...
Really handy site for those more interesting in learning than flaming 
I'm still driving my hillclimb car every day (when I'm not on the ZX-9). Hell... my hillclimb car has crossed Australia 3 times since we last spoke
let sleeping dubs lie
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Joel
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| posted on July 23rd, 2010 at 11:36 AM |
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Theres over 13 pages of GL-4 vs GL-5 thread on thesamba
General consensous seems to be that todays GL-5 are fine for our gearboxes, it was the early original released stuff that wasnt
Noones been able to back up with facts that modern GL-5 is detrimental
But several people have run GL5 for plenty of miles with no issues
My gearbox has never had an oil change since it was built 9 years ago, I'll probbaly be a guinea pig and put GL 5 in it
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on July 23rd, 2010 at 02:34 PM |
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Guess I'll wander on over to TheSamba and have a squiz. It's interesting how few people seem to worry about the gearbox; most likely a function of
them being so well built at the outset. Got to love working with cars that have been over engineered! Go the VW.
let sleeping dubs lie
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68AutoBug
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| posted on July 23rd, 2010 at 08:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Peter Leonard
cheers Lee, apart from all the leaks (expected in VWs) anyone else tried a synthetic like Syntrans? Not a big fan of additives (if they were really
worth it I expect they'd already be in the oil off the shelf...)
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Hi
Well, after the NOISE that was in My gearbox for a few months.. [didn't do many kms]
too loud to have a radio or talk to someone...lol
but just suddenly, it reduced to half the noise one day...
and again later on.... so the Additive did work...
and was needed...
otherwise I probably wouldn't have put it in... lol
but I also know that MOLY grease [lithium based] will stop noise in a worn out CV Joint....
and probably stop any further wear... [hopefully]
[that was in a Magna]
so the MOLY debniumdisulfide [My own spelling] does really help if there is wear... and there probably most likely be a bit of wear in Our over
engineered German made gearboxes.. lol
LEE
but it shouldn't hurt either... lol
I'm now going to add some valvesaver to My 95 RON fuel..
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on July 23rd, 2010 at 10:38 PM |
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http://www.ratwell.com/technical/GearOil.html
I think I'll stick with my GL-4 
let sleeping dubs lie
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68AutoBug
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 12:35 AM |
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Hi Peter
We'll be nuts after reading all that info... GL4 YES GL5 NO
or maybe...lol
what I was told from the USA... gearboxes sitting for a long time with hypoid oil in them is the major cause...
the copper/bronze etc is attacKed while everything is still
once its running in a car.... NO Problems.....??
I believe GL4 will also eat Your bushes etc if Your gearbox sits there for many years....lol
using it all the time.... shouldn't be a problem...
cheers
LEE
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 10:04 AM |
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Really from what I can gather the GL-5 is pretty safe until the oil gets hot, which accelerates the chemical reaction between the sulfur (common EP
additive of which there is USUALLY more in GL-5) and the 'yellow metal' components (syncros bushes etc..) It's going to take a loooong time to do
any serious damage, at which point the EP additives have probably done more good than harm in relation to the cushioning effect on spider gears and
other places that bear the brunt of clutch dropping.
...of course if you don't hammer the crap out of your gears the thrust faces will be perfectly fine with the oil type VW recommended, along with the
shift forks, syncros and bushings. As my gear box is an original '71 never rebuilt I'm perfectly happy sticking with GL-4. Any wear in there now is
NOT going to be offset by throwing in EP GL-5. I'm even going for horrifyingly expensive fully synthetic GL-4 to see if Hoobs likes it. If [when] I
get a sexy new gearbox built I'll probably take the advice of whoever builds it, or go for a specific GL-5 MT-1 (which should be yellow safe).
I think I'll start a thread on 'what's the best engine oil?'    
let sleeping dubs lie
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 10:12 AM |
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Hi,
I have been running a redline synthitic in my gearbox for 3 years with a improvment in shifting and general quiteness,
the oil is very thin but has a gear tooth loading much higher that ep90 so there is a major reduction in wear and noise, quite expensive, phone
redline and talk to there engineer to get the correct one for your aplication
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68AutoBug
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 02:41 PM |
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THE CASTROL SYNTRAX IN MY gearbox cost Me about $35 a litre when I bought it...
I saw recently some NULON 1 litre of 75/85 or 90??
100% synthetic transaxle oil for $14 a litre???
YIKES...
and 15w/50 NULON engine engine oil for $25 for 5 litres....
and SL specs not the new SM...
and synthetic engine oil for $32 for 5 litres..??
just remember You have a differential in Your transaxle..
so extreme pressure hypoid oil is needed IMHO...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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General_Failure
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 05:39 PM |
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I'm running GL4 hypoid oil. Don't remember what. I got it from western oil. The bloke at the counter went through the additives with me to make sure
it was safe. 4L only cost me 30 odd dollars. I like buying things from industrial / commercial suppliers. Good products without the BS and much lower
prices.
How is it?
Better than the black stinking thin fluid I drained from it. It's a bit quieter now. Might try some of the molybond stuff in it, as an 1800 type4
with an early 3 rib in a type2 is a dangerous combination.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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68AutoBug
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 posted on July 24th, 2010 at 07:09 PM |
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ODD but true... lol
I had an L300 back in 1982> and it was recommended by Mitsubishi to change the gearbox oil and replace it with Automatic Transmission fluid...
if You had problems shifting gears when cold..
which I did have...
so, it had ATF in it... lol
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 07:18 PM |
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Times have changed and and the use of synthic oils in automotive and industry is now the norm, i work for a oil company and am heavily involved in the
maintanence of all rotating equipment used in the process of hydrocarbons,we use exclusively synthic oils and grease resalting in a improvment in
relyability and less downtime, the oil that i use in my gear box is the redline transaxle oil and does not fit the general discription of hypoid gear
oil, it is extremly thin and you can actually feel the polimers in the oil, these give you the increase in gear tooth contact pressure without the oil
being a 90 weight, a major decrease in effort required to change gears , the oil is not hydroscopic so there is no water obsorbed into the oil during
it's life time in the gearbox unless you think your car is a boat, i have had the oil sampled and after 3 years there is no need to change it as
there has been no deteriation, cost effective and justifying the high purchase price
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 09:46 PM |
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All done, will let y'all know if it's good, bad or ugly. I ended up using two GL-4 oils mixed together. Not because I'm a chemical engineer with
pretensions of grandeur, simply because Supacheap had a 20% off sale and they didn't stock Castrol Syntrans, only Syntrax. So I bought 2L of
equivalently expensive Nulon fully synthetic GL-4 75-W 85 and chucked it in with the 1L of 75W-85 Syntrans i got at Repco. Scored a really cool oil
pump siphon thingy at the same time which made it realllllly easy too
The stuff that came out could have been anything: it was pretty bodgy, sulfurous and full of brass flakes, and the magnet on the tranny drain plug was
liberally coated in steel shavings and sludge. About 2.5 litres of the pristine pale yellow fluids replaced it and made me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Tomorrow my gearbox will probably have a nervous breakdown and spit the diff straight through the floorpan.
Is 90 bucks worth of oil going to be worth it? Who knows. Even if it isn't I'm going to tell everyone how it increased horsepower, quietened down my
gearbox, made shifting silky smooth and effortless, and enabled me to finally break the 13 second 1/4 mile in my daily while sipping a macchiato and
writing the archetypal great Australian novel. It's all about the Volkswagen.
let sleeping dubs lie
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 09:55 PM |
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Wish I had one of those pump things, but they were all out. I made a pressurized lid for the oil with an in hose and an out hose.
Pressurized the oil container with a compressor going very carefully on the trigger of the air gun. Did the job at least.
Since the oil change there has been oil coming out at the shift rod on the cone. I choose to ignore that.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Matt Ryan
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 10:41 PM |
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If you're looking for something close to original,
Penrite manual gear oil 80
SAE 80/85 API GL4
This is NOT a hypoid oil, so you don't have to worry if your car does extremely low miles, or you want to shelve a transaxle
for a while.
I bought some today - from Bursons - 20 something bucks, 2.5 litres. A bit short for a type 1 transaxle but you only have to buy 2 bottles now and
then. You've always got the leftover from last change to make up the difference.
I also use a large tube of Nulon GL70 gearbox treatment, good stuff.
As for filling, I use a 6ft (or so) length of garden hose with a funnel stuck in the end, if the car is next to something suitable (fence, garage
wall) you can screw, nail, tape the funnel to it and then crack a beer and keep going back to top the funnel up until the filler hole starts
overflowing.
If you have a sloping driveway, drive the rear of the car onto ramps to utilise the slope to give you maximum room to work.
For beetles, while climbing the ramps open your door and place a spirit level on your running board and you'll be sweet if you stop when the bubble
does its thing.
Regards,
Matt.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 10:59 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by General_Failure
Since the oil change there has been oil coming out at the shift rod on the cone. I choose to ignore that.
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Hi
You can buy those seals and brass bushing as an assembly..
I bought Mine from the USA but I'm sure they would be available at a VW parts shop...
maybe You put too much oil in the gearbox..
and the bush/seal is worn....
but its better than too little oil ... lol
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 11:01 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Matt Ryan
I also use a large tube of Nulon GL70 gearbox treatment, good stuff.
For beetles, while climbing the ramps open your door and place a spirit level on your running board and you'll be sweet if you stop when the bubble
does its thing.
Regards,
Matt.
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Matt
Can You use GL70 Nulon additive in synthetic oil ???
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Matt Ryan
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 11:16 PM |
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| Quote: |
Matt Can You use GL70 Nulon additive in synthetic oil ??? LEE
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Lee,
I was looking at Nulon synthetic gear oil today and the label said... "for added protection, use Nulon GL70"
Can't see the value in paying a premium price for synthetic oil, then paying for an additive as well. Why don't they just put the stuff in their
"you beaut" oil?
Don't get me wrong, I've been using (and running the bullshit microscope over) Nulon stuff since the late '70s.
Regards,
Matt.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 11:27 PM |
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I've been using their products since the 70s also but haven't used their oils as yet...
I do have a couple of tubes of GL70 ...
I thought it was odd that their oils do NOT contain their additives
Not sure whether it still says that on the oil containers now...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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1303Steve
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| posted on July 24th, 2010 at 11:49 PM |
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Hi
I put some GL 70 in my sons transmission. It improved the cold shifting unbelievably, we have a tight 2nd gear corner about 500 metres from our house,
it was always a struggle to get back to 2nd when trans was cold, its now a breeze.
I'm a Nulon fan, one of our club members is one of the Phobas there I've done the factory tour and I believe in the product, they also sell 20 litre
drums of the product, a bit of money to be saved there, not so much for trans oil unless you own a fleet of cars but good for motor oil.
Steve
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Matt Ryan
A.k.a.: Matt Ryan
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 890
Threads: 107
Registered: January 6th, 2006
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Location: Port Macquarie NSW
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| posted on July 25th, 2010 at 12:09 AM |
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Yeah Lee,
I think they have "some" of their magic ingredients in their oils,
but not too much to prevent selling more product.
They make some very good high temp grease as well.
A small tube of GL70 comes in real handy for assembling rear wheel bearings and seals on swingaxle models. It makes a good initial lube for the
bearings and keeps the rubber in the seals & O rings supple as, for ages.
Regards,
Matt.
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