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 dragvw2180
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| posted on November 12th, 2010 at 12:46 PM |
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tired of breaking gear boxes ?
My name is Mike McCarthy, I run a turbo car and have been breaking trans parts in the past. I was talking to one of the fastest guys on the East Coast
here in the US about a clutch management system , thought I would pass on what I learned. If you are running a hydraulic clutch setup you can build it
for around 120.00 . The purpose of the system to to contol how fast your clutch engages only in first gear. Berg had a system way back in the 80's
called the " Antishocker", it was a great idea but caused slippage in every gear. There really are only four components to the system, a line lock,
an adjustable spool valve, a switch, and a lever to engage the switch. I am going to lay this out in the order it happens to show what goes where and
what it does. I will post some pics this weekend of my setup if anyone is interested. You sever the line between the master cylinder and the slave
cylinder and install two of the components the line lock and spool valve there. On the line into and out of the line lock you install a tee. from both
tees you connect a line to the spool valve. What you are creating is a bypass system. When you engage the trans in first gear you engage a switch
which activates the system. When it activates it stops fluid flow through the line lock and forces it to bypass through the adjustable spool valve
instead. The tighter you turn the knob clockwise the slower the engagement, c clockwise the faster. I have mounted my switch on my nose cone with a
lever( paddle) mounted on a shift coupler I made for this setup. I know this sounds rather confusing but is so simple I am amazed no one came up with
it years ago. At any rate, When I move my shift rod to first gear a lever on my shift coupler engages a switch. This switch has power going to it on
one side and the other side goes to the line lock. The line lock has two wires, one to the switch and the other to ground. I will be going to the
track and setting the valve next Thursday at a test and tune , again if anyone is interested I will keep track of my settings for use as a base for
your car. The weakest link in a VW race car or really hot street car has been the transmission especially with drag race starts. I hope someone over
there can benifit from this, it works pretty good on the Red Baron car. Mike
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on November 12th, 2010 at 01:40 PM |
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Sounds great Mike,
look forward to seing your pics and hearing of your progress.
Streeter this week end?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 13th, 2010 at 10:26 AM |
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Hey Dave,
I have the engine and trans done for the unlimited street car, thats what I am running in the race car for the time being. It ran 6.46
last time out but took the R/P out in the PRO MOD finals , my second one, thats why the C/management system. I am still collecting all my parts for
the new project but we are finishing up John Toomeys USE car. Hopefully we will have both cars done for the first race in spring . I am going to
download some pics, if anyone wants anything with a better shot let me know and I will take some hopefully better ones. I have to build a ful roll
cage for a friend tomorrow and back on the USE car Sunday so no playing this weekend.
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k300/dragvw2180/?action=view¤t=mi...
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k300/dragvw2180/?action=view¤t=mi...
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k300/dragvw2180/?action=view¤t=mi...
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k300/dragvw2180/?action=view¤t=mi...
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k300/dragvw2180/?action=view¤t=mi...
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k300/dragvw2180/?action=view¤t=mi...
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 13th, 2010 at 10:33 AM |
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I just tried the pics myself and I am sorry they didn't download correctly, also I will take better pics of the engaement system for the switch, I
was trying to get them on and did not realise how dark they were. Mike
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on November 13th, 2010 at 12:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 13th, 2010 at 01:34 PM |
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Thanks Dave, I will take some better pics of the switch setup tomorrow, Mike
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stoker
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| posted on November 14th, 2010 at 07:58 AM |
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mike, the setup you are trying on your clutch is identical to the one mike kristen & myself have been using for 2 yrs ,and it works a treat.On a
turbo car seeing you launch around around 6000 r.p.m the car doesnt leave so voilently and you save r&p`s which is a big plus on the budget side.
On the down side you go through a lot more black magic clutches but thats drag racing and keep the maintenance up on breakaway torque ( mine was
230lbs on a 1600lbs car) with a dual plate setup,also put the valve in the right way???(dont laugh it has been done). That spool valve in the photo
is identical to mine ($40.00 from pirtek hyd) just make sure the seals are dot3 or4 compatible if not just run atf in the clutch,itdoesnt matter a
shit good luck
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vlad01
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| posted on November 14th, 2010 at 08:34 AM |
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thats a dam good idea. Especially for people who just side step the clutch 
I personally would never side step. I preload the drivetrain and sit a tinny fraction on friction point(keeps everything preloaded) while keeping the
revs up,
then let go of the clutch in a fastish but controlled manner.
Guess this setup would make that procedure an autopilot function 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 14th, 2010 at 08:38 PM |
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Thanks for the input STOKER, I am using Tilton discs right now but may try the double BM 's later. How did you do your first gear switch, on the
shifter or nose cone?
I was not able to work on my car yesterday , I bent and installed a full roll cage yesterday for a friend. By the time we got done it
was late and I just wanted a shower and my recliner. I questioned the man whom I purchased this from about the seal and was told no problem , I bought
two ( one spare) and if I have to replace it every year it will be cheap( $30.00 us) as compared to one R/P or axle. The thing about this setup is
that it has been around but no one has passed the info around to everyone else . Think about how much money has been spent in the last year by VW
owners who have had to replace driveline componants because of breakage. Anything that can move our sport to a new and better level and also save
every enthusiast money is a positive with me.
Vlad I have all the electronics on my race car. My clutch is released when I release a button on my steering wheel . To be consistant on
the tree I have a stop I push the clutch pedal down to everytime so that my reaction time can be controlled or adjusted by timer effectively. This
setup will not make a bad driver great, but make a driver more consistant so he can improve. I drag my car into the lights with the clutch to light my
prestage and staged lights on , so all the slop in the trans has been preloaded but my clutch cannot be dragging at all . Using the Delay box I try to
keep my reaction times around .03 or less, a .00 anything is an accident. Mike
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stoker
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| posted on November 16th, 2010 at 06:19 AM |
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mike, my switch is on the nose cone so its out of the way of everything and cant be stuffed with?? We had a look at frank the banks car at the classic
in 08 ,too bloody complicated for me so came up with this idea on the way home (you do a lot of thinking on a 15hour flight)
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 16th, 2010 at 11:19 PM |
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First gear
second gear
third gear
fourth
reverse
The electronics I use to control everything else
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 16th, 2010 at 11:34 PM |
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I showed the pics of each gear so the clearance of the paddle could be seen. This is a first prototype so its not pretty but I think it will work. If
you don't mind Stoker I would like to see how you mounted yours and what it looks like, matter of fact anyone who has one on their cars please post
them so we all can learn. This is the stuff thats keeps me coming back to racing, I just like to tinker around making stuff. I hope this helps someone
come up with something better, Mike
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reub
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| posted on November 16th, 2010 at 11:37 PM |
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First gear
second gear
third gear
fourth gear
reverse gear
The electronics I use to control everything else
Reub
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 16th, 2010 at 11:46 PM |
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Thanks man, I went back and corrected it before I saw you fix it for me, thanks Reub
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reub
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| posted on November 16th, 2010 at 11:47 PM |
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No prob dude... Thanks for sharing the info too
Reub
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stoker
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| posted on November 18th, 2010 at 07:13 AM |
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no point in a photo off my g/box switch as i use a kombi box with a vertigate shifter setup but it looks as if your setup will do it fine, plus who
cares what it looks like , if it does the job its perfect and the only guy to see it will be YOU
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 18th, 2010 at 10:32 AM |
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Hey Stoker,
If you don't mind telling me I would appreciate a base setting to start with for the valve. Mine has 4 turns total travel. Right now I
have it 1 turn out from shut position. I plan on running it Thursday night for a t&tune at the local track, just have to bleed brakes and clutch.
I will let everyone know how it does, thanks guys, Mike
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stoker
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| posted on November 19th, 2010 at 05:10 PM |
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mike
that is a bit of suck and see,check it on 1 turn and see how it feels and then go 1/4 turn at a time either way. We are running our supercharged car
this w/end ,will let you know what we ended up with. Keep us posted on how you go good luck
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on November 19th, 2010 at 05:30 PM |
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Post some pics up Dave of the set up on the Kombi box as I know I will be running a Kombi box as will my brother so some pics will certainly help!!
Or is that damm Secret Squirrel lurking around again hahahahahaha
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
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stoker
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| posted on November 20th, 2010 at 06:43 PM |
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get over it
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 21st, 2010 at 03:09 AM |
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Well we had to cancel out the test and tune for Thurday because it was too cold ( 36 F ) and today it is really windy out so we will try again Thurday
. This is our winter but in the south we have alot of nice weather and we will have some 70 plus weekends soon. My first VW race will be in March, but
I want to hit the v8 car races locally and keep some seat time. They run races as long as its not raining or snowing , which does not happen all that
much down here, all winter long. Mike
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dcuplover
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| posted on November 21st, 2010 at 12:50 PM |
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the one problem someone posted on the ulitmate aircooled site is the adjusting valve is not meant to be used with brake fluid and will not last. You
will need to keep a close eye on it. If it blows all the oil is puked out!
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vlad01
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| posted on November 21st, 2010 at 06:48 PM |
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why don't you use DOT 5 or 5.1? its silicone oil based. But make sure if you ever use DOT 5 fluid to completely flush and dry out the system of DOT 4
and lower fluids as the 5 with not go well
with glycol based DOT 3 and 4. It will cause corrosion problem if not a dry fill with 5 or mixed/traces of lower grade fluids.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 21st, 2010 at 11:43 PM |
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I am using a synthetic based fluid so I think I am ok, but I bought a spare just in case.
Since we couldn't go to the track we decided to tackle the rearwindow on the USE car, this isn't a very good pic but you can get an idea of what
we are doing.
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20bkombi
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| posted on November 22nd, 2010 at 10:37 PM |
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This is my set up, cost $0. just parts lying around.
P valve works a treat and the one way ball valve is cable operated from the shifter (1st gear).
It is a hill holder for from the clutch which is out of a subaru.
Just need track time to set rpm limiter/boost control and clutch.
AARON'S SPEED SHIFT AUTOS
Specialising in Vw automatic transmissions, differentials and torque converters
Stock or modified to suit your application (street, drag, off road)
Ph 0402 233 027
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20bkombi
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| posted on November 23rd, 2010 at 07:02 AM |
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With this setup you can lift the lever any time even before you depress the clutch.
It could be electricly opreated using a boot poper solenoid or by conecting the cable to the gear lever , in 1st only.
At the moment it is a fully manual lever mounted under the gear knob.This will do for now.
Looks ordenary, but better then ordenary looking gears (cw/pinion).
AARON'S SPEED SHIFT AUTOS
Specialising in Vw automatic transmissions, differentials and torque converters
Stock or modified to suit your application (street, drag, off road)
Ph 0402 233 027
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 24th, 2010 at 04:16 AM |
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Thats a perfect example of why I love what we do, there are so many really talented people out there who are not afraid of thinking outside the box
and coming up with new ideas for old problems. Thats a cool idea, please let us know how it works. Mike
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humpty
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| posted on November 26th, 2010 at 02:09 PM |
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Thank you so much Mike for starting this thread.... Exactly what I've been looking at for my POS turbo car.... And your solution Aaron is golden....
Awesome stuff!
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ian.mezz
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| posted on November 29th, 2010 at 12:07 PM |
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Nice car | Quote: | Originally
posted by dragvw2180
I am using a synthetic based fluid so I think I am ok, but I bought a spare just in case.
Since we couldn't go to the track we decided to tackle the rearwindow on the USE car, this isn't a very good pic but you can get an idea of what
we are doing.
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dragvw2180
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| posted on November 30th, 2010 at 10:42 AM |
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Thanks Humpty and Ian,
Humpty I would like to see the vw people come together and help each other bring our hobby to a new and higher level, If we can make ALL
our cars be more competative and less costly to operate then now, then maybe we will have more money to get even better.
Ian thanks for the comment about the car, when we finish the last of the fabrication I will start a new post on what we have done. This is
actually the second chassis we built for this car. It is a pan front, ladder back half that we fabbed up in my garage . The engine will have over 500
hp and will be driven on the street. Chassis has been certified for 8.50 by IHRA already . Mike
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