| [ Total Views: 3493 | Total Replies: 25 | Thread Id: 87820 ] |
|
|
 cruise98
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 86
Threads: 51
Registered: October 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: KALGOORLIE WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 27th, 2010 at 09:44 PM |
|
|
oldest beetle
Does anyone know what or where is the oldest beetle in australia
i saw one in york wa was a 48 i think in the musuem there
saying that is there any members on here with a late 40s beetle
dale
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on December 28th, 2010 at 12:45 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by cruise98
Does anyone know what or where is the oldest beetle in australia
i saw one in york wa was a 48 i think in the musuem there
saying that is there any members on here with a late 40s beetle
dale
|
Here is the Hanomag made KDF prototype in Australia
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
Thatbrickhurts
Learner Dubber
Posts: 10
Threads: 0
Registered: December 28th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 28th, 2010 at 02:07 PM |
|
|
Thats not a Volkswagen. Its a Hanomag. 2 different companies.
There are older cars around. There are some older split bugs in Melbourne, and a couple of schwimms and Kubels if you know who has what.
The artist formerly known as Dion the indestructible.
|
|
|
cruise98
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 86
Threads: 51
Registered: October 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: KALGOORLIE WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 28th, 2010 at 03:58 PM |
|
|
the one in York WA is a 1946 good condition
i was just was wondering if that was the oldest in wa beetle that is
i suppose alot of the older ones now are either rusted out of some farm or crushed .i love the history and thats why i thought id ask
cheers dale
|
|
|
Thatbrickhurts
Learner Dubber
Posts: 10
Threads: 0
Registered: December 28th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 28th, 2010 at 04:13 PM |
|
|
I'd say thats one of the oldest. Ive only heard of a 46 over hear in Vic, but nothing earlier in the way of beetles.
The artist formerly known as Dion the indestructible.
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 30th, 2010 at 01:35 PM |
|
|
Yes the one in the York museum in WA is the famous 'Haenel' VW, the oldest 'original' VW in Australia.
In 1961, when VW Australasia was due to make the 100,000th Australian VW, they made a three-month search of Australia to find the oldest existing car.
They eventually found the '46 in Horsham, Victoria, owned by Mr and Mrs Haenel. She had immigrated here in 1951, to join her husband who had been
interred during the war. She had purchased the VW from a British officer in Germany, and shipped it with her to Australia. When they were found in
1961, they were still driving the '46 every day. VW presented them with the brand new 100,000th VW in exchange for their old '46, at an official
ceremony in 1961.
VW Australasia, and later LNC Industries (VW Australia), then owned the '46 and used it in newspaper ads, promotions and displays for a number of
years. It was on display at the Clayton factory foyer for years, then later at the North Ryde headquarters in Sydney. It was sold off in 1977 and was
bought by George Green. He displayed it at his museum in Leppington (Sydney), until he died in 1982 and his collection auctioned off. The '46 was
then moved up to Gilltrap's Museum on the Gold Coast (alongside Genevieve and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang), before being sold to Peter Briggs in 1986. He
is the owner of the York Museum where it can be seen today.
http://www.yorkwa.com.au/Motor.Museum/
Originally the '46 was black, but at some time in the early 1970s LNC Industries had it repainted a light grey blue. It is an original
right-hand-drive car and is a significant part of Australian VW history.
There are older VWs here now though. The Australian Army did bring in two Beetles and a Kubel in 1945 for evaluation. The Kubel is in the War Memorial
in Canberra and one of the '45 Beetles was found by Grahame Lees in the 1980s. Since then, a number of enthusiasts such as Ray Black have pruchased
and shipped in wartime VWs such as Kubels and Schwimmwagens. Volkswagens were not officially sold here until late 1953 (Vic) and Easter 1954 (rest of
Australia), so any earlier ones will have been privately imported at some stage.
But the Haenel VW in York has been IN Australia longer than any other Beetle, and this record will never be broken so long as it remains in this
country.
For the complete Haenel VW story, go to the Club Veedub magazine archive and download the January 2010 issue.
http://www.clubvw.org.au/zeitschrift/zeitschrift/2010.html
|
|
|
farkengruven
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Registered: January 29th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 30th, 2010 at 04:40 PM |
|
|
I have a few questions Phil.
Is there evidence that VW was making RHD cars in the 1940's?
Where do the 2 1940 Beetles that came to Australia in 1945 fit into the equation of the oldest Beetle in Australia? Last week you mentioned that one
might be in the Graham Lees collection. If it is, wouldn't that be the oldest in Australia?
2007 T5 TDI Crewvan
2003 Passat
NSU Ro80
1975 Passat TS
1973 L bug
|
|
|
 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on December 30th, 2010 at 06:29 PM |
|
|
We had two Schwimmwagens come in through our work as imports. So the early cars are about. One of the Schwimmwagens had the full propeller attachment
attached and operating.
|
|
|
58camper
A.k.a.: Bill Moore
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 591
Threads: 110
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: NORTH NOWRA is now Country Buggy Central
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Curt but friendly
|
| posted on December 30th, 2010 at 07:32 PM |
|
|
I have not seen anything to indicate that RHD "Beetle" were produced prior to the British Army taking control at the cessation of WW11.
Phil is right about the vehicle in the York Museum. I have not seen the vehicle but rumour has it is that the pan is from a 1954 Beetle. This was
necessary following an incident between the vehicle and a car transporter in the early 1970s whilst under control of VW Australia. If anyone is close
to York and wants to examine the vehicle I can give them some pointers to look for on a 1946 model floor pan.
There were two 1945 "Beetles" shipped by Wolfsburg Motor Works, Volkswagenwerk about February 1946 as part of the offer to the Australian Government
to take over production of the VW.
I have recently researched these two vehicles and found that the red and cream vehicle formerly owned by Graham Lees is now in South Australia
undergoing an extensive and expensive resto. I have spoken to the owner and he wants to get the resto right. He has recently imported an original fuel
tank from Belgium for the vehicle. THis car was built on 16/11/45. This has to be one of two oldest "Beetles" in Australia. I do not know the
production date for the other vehicle.
Attached is a photo of one of the vehicles when it was registered in Victoria. I do now know if this is the ex Lees vehicle or not.
I have also attached a page from a VW promotional book dated 1946 showing a 1945 vehicle.
countrybuggybill
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
 posted on December 30th, 2010 at 11:25 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Thatbrickhurts
Thats not a Volkswagen. Its a Hanomag. 2 different companies.
There are older cars around. There are some older split bugs in Melbourne, and a couple of schwimms and Kubels if you know who has what.
|
I believe that this car was a prototype for VW=KDF before VW was making beetles..???
anyone with anymore info??
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
farkengruven
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Registered: January 29th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 31st, 2010 at 06:01 AM |
|
|
After the war, people made cars out of whatever parts where left over. In this case, this was pieced together in East Germany using a Kubelwagen
chassis and running gear, and a Hanomag body. People did not like driving military looking vehicles after the war.
Think about this, Why would a KDF Hanomag be built in 1939 when the Beetle was already designed and made?
Why would this prototype from 1939 be sitting on a 1943 chassis?
The 1939 Hanomag, was a production vehicle prior to the war, Why would a production vehicle body be used as a prototype? A completely new body would
have been used on a prototype.
There are well known collectors in Germany that know of this car, and know it was made after the war from left over bits and pieces.
2007 T5 TDI Crewvan
2003 Passat
NSU Ro80
1975 Passat TS
1973 L bug
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 31st, 2010 at 06:54 AM |
|
|
Yes the Hanomag is interesting but it's not a Volkswagen and something of a distraction to this discussion.
As Bill said, there were no RHD Beetles until the British took control of the factory after the war. Certainly most of them after this were LHD, but a
number of the post-1945 cars were made for some of the British officers - who no doubt intended to take them back to the UK with them after their
deployment was finished. The Haenel's VW was one of these, bought from a British officer stationed in Germany.
Hi Bill, that's interesting info about the '46's floorpan. I've spoken at length with Peter Harbin, the curator of the York museum, about that car
(I first saw it there back in 1987) and he never mentioned that! I suspect that if the car was damaged by LNC in the early 1970s, then that's when it
would have been repainted light grey-blue. I never saw it at Leppington; not even sure where Green's Motorcade was, exactly.
It reminds me of stories of how Antarctica 1's floorpan was secretly replaced after it returned from Mawson - the original having welds on welds to
repair the frame head.
Yes the ex-Army Beetle is older than the Haenel's, and has also been here longer. BUT - when VW was looking for the oldest VW here in 1961, that car
couldn't be located and the Haenel's was the oldest they found. When Grahame Lees found the Army Beetle, it was in derelict condition, little more
than a bent shell and floorpan and certainly not complete. I'm glad it has found a good home and a sympathetic, serious restorer since Grahame Lees
sold it. It's a very important car. As far as I am aware (I can't remember the source), the other ex-Army Beetle was destroyed years ago.
|
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on December 31st, 2010 at 07:10 AM |
|
|
Phil, Green's Motortcade was on Camden Valley Way - between The Cross Roads and Bringelly Road. The museum was actually owned by Frank Illich, who -
at the time - owned the biggest collection of cars in the southern hemisphere!
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 31st, 2010 at 10:12 AM |
|
|
Thanks Greg, the only landmarks I know along that stretch of road are the Trash n Treasure markets, and what's left of Adventureland.
Did Frank Illich buy the Motorcade (and its collection) from George Green?
|
|
|
annosL
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 378
Threads: 43
Registered: December 28th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: albany
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: need to win lotto
|
| posted on December 31st, 2010 at 11:59 AM |
|
|
Great thread! VW history is never boring! far more interesting to me than Standard Tens in Australia or history of the "Vanguard Spacemaster"! or
how about the last resting place of the "Lightburn Zeta"? only Australian car I know of! In the fifties when American cars, Holdens and Fords and
later Valiants had column shifts good 'ol Dubs with four on the floor were good fun to drive
|
|
|
farkengruven
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Registered: January 29th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 31st, 2010 at 12:00 PM |
|
|
Phil,
So, does your comment above 'But the Haenel VW in York has been IN Australia longer than any other Beetle, and this record will never be broken so
long as it remains in this country.' still apply?
2007 T5 TDI Crewvan
2003 Passat
NSU Ro80
1975 Passat TS
1973 L bug
|
|
|
VolksVair
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 252
Threads: 32
Registered: April 6th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Geelong VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 31st, 2010 at 12:34 PM |
|
|
I was all over that 46 split in York 2 years back, that was the first I had ever seen in real life, I think Haenel received a brand new beetle in
exchange for the 46, and I am pretty sure that Gary Collis of Wolfsburg Automotive, has that one in his collection.
Adventure Before Dimentia
|
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on December 31st, 2010 at 01:37 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
Thanks Greg, the only landmarks I know along that stretch of road are the Trash n Treasure markets, and what's left of Adventureland.
Did Frank Illich buy the Motorcade (and its collection) from George Green?
|
Frank owned the land, and built the museum to house George Green's cars, and some of his own. After George died, Frank auctioned off George's cars -
on behalf of the family. Frank (at the request of George's daughter) kept the museum running, with his own collection.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
shaihulud
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1448
Threads: 197
Registered: November 4th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 1st, 2011 at 12:46 AM |
|
|
The York Motor Museum also has a sectioned Beetle pan that must be very old.
It has many characteristics that I've never seen before. All over it there are glaring differences from pans that came later.
My experience is limited as the oldest pan that i have ever seen is an oval.
The York pan is very different from a later 1958 pan that I have..
|
|
|
58camper
A.k.a.: Bill Moore
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 591
Threads: 110
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: NORTH NOWRA is now Country Buggy Central
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Curt but friendly
|
| posted on January 1st, 2011 at 07:44 AM |
|
|
Thanks for the York pan detail.
The attached detail the differences between a 1945 pan and a late 1952 pan and the differences are significant.
I dont have sketches for pans later than 1952 but records indicate there was little change from the 1952 modifications through to 1956 when there were
significant changes to pan including new frame head cover,conduits and various tubes inside the tunnel were shifted around,the gear lever mounting and
heater control knob were both moved forward with the heater control knob moved almost up as far as the gear shift.
Apart from the different ribbing set up the earlier pan has a pull cable for choke mounted on the pan itself- its not marked as such but is the black
mark on the passenger side near the front of the hand brake lever. In 1952 the choke had moved to a cable on the dash.
The heater control knobs are also very different with the early model the handle being "T" shaped which you turned and then pulled. For later pans
the heater control know was more round and you actually twisted it on and off and it had moved to the rear of the hand brake lever.
Would like to know if anyone can confirm the origins of the pan on the York Musuem vehicle if the get a chance.
Countrybuggybill.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
Old Dubber
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 605
Threads: 25
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Everton Hills, Brisbane, QLD, Australia 4053
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: great!
|
| posted on January 2nd, 2011 at 08:58 AM |
|
|
These photos were taken at the Fremantle Motor Museum, B-Shed in Victoria Quay on the 22_06_2007.
The '46 was on loan from the York Museum.
I was not allowed inside the '46, as I was also interested in the chassis number!
The LHD '54 pan was very interesting as I had done the sectioned on a '63 tunnel.
enjoy
|
|
|
annosL
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 378
Threads: 43
Registered: December 28th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: albany
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: need to win lotto
|
| posted on January 2nd, 2011 at 02:02 PM |
|
|
Thanks for posting those pics, the '46 looks in excellent nick, cut-aways are great
|
|
|
cruise98
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 86
Threads: 51
Registered: October 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: KALGOORLIE WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 2nd, 2011 at 10:41 PM |
|
|
hey thanks to everyone for their input so great to read all the threads
cheers dale
|
|
|
Undis
Casual Dubber
Posts: 38
Threads: 2
Registered: February 26th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Riga-Latvia, Summer Hill NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 3rd, 2011 at 07:24 PM |
|
|
Pictures of the '46 I took in the early eighties at Leppington
|
|
|
Undis
Casual Dubber
Posts: 38
Threads: 2
Registered: February 26th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Riga-Latvia, Summer Hill NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 3rd, 2011 at 07:28 PM |
|
|
And this one - another '46 imported from the UK circa 1989...
|
|
|
amazeer
A.k.a.: Surly Duff
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Posts: 3029
Threads: 387
Registered: November 14th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Wollongong
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: bitter
|
| posted on January 3rd, 2011 at 08:47 PM |
|
|
is that Lee's long lost floor pan? Needs a respray.
|
|
|
