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 Super1302
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 04:57 PM |
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EFI Question
Can the EFI throttle body and injectors and associated parts off a holden 3800 V6 be used for injection on a vw bug engine. i have the coil packs
too.
be a shame for these to go to waste.
and has anyone used these items at all.
cheers 
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 06:11 PM |
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With a bit of custom fab work - sure, why not !!!
They'd be EV-1 wide body injector's, so will fit into a set of CB manifolds or similar... so then you just to plumb up to the TB.
Coil packs piss easy to use in a wasted spark config.
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vlad01
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 06:15 PM |
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yes! the ECU can even be used. But a suitable ignition module and crank sensor will be needed if you want to utilize the whole system.
those coil packs are tops
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 06:45 PM |
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What are the part numbers cast into the injectors ??? If you wanna post them up can tell you what size they are...
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'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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Super1302
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 07:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
What are the part numbers cast into the injectors ??? If you wanna post them up can tell you what size they are...
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injector 280150960? with 562 stamped above it. hitachi?
the throttle body butterfly is 60 mm too.
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Sides
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 07:41 PM |
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Nah - they're a Bosch injector. Info I have shows them as being a 200cc high resistance injector.
They're good for about 30-35hp per cylinder, so 130hp or so at the flywheel in a Volksy engine.
60mm TB should be plenty big enough too I reckon.
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vlad01
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 09:02 PM |
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they are 19lb injectors or as Dave said 200cc/min
30-35hp each? hmmm? so they are already maxed out on my car then? with just a few basic mods?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Sides
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 09:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
30-35hp each? hmmm? so they are already maxed out on my car then? with just a few basic mods?
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Not so much maxed out, but certainly up at 80%'ish duty cycle which is the safest maximum to aim for. Think about it... the final version 3800 V6 was
147kW stock, or around 200hp with 6 injectors.
Plenty of online injector sizing calculators around, but they all seem to give similar results... check out http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
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01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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vlad01
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 09:32 PM |
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yeah my old VP is getting close to that I recon.
the final version of the 3800 was actually 153kw as seen in the VY, VT was the last 147kw 3800 also the slowest of them all due to the weight of the
car 
71 notchback,
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ratty 63
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 09:49 AM |
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This all sound familiar!
We set up my brothers Baja with stock Holden (Camira) EFI parts. It ran but we ended up changing the injectors for bigger ones from a Camry (I think
 ) as the stock Bosch ones were running above the 80% limit and
it was causing problems.
The GM ignition controllers for a 4 cylinder are not all that common in Oz, but as far as I can tell they were used in almost every 4 cyl GM car in
the US. I did manage to find a new GM ignition module for sale here on the Gold Coast... but that project stalled when I moved house 3 years ago so
it has not yet been used.... one day (soon I hope!). We used the stock Camira dizzy (with the mounting flange machined off the shaft) in my brothers
Baja - the shaft length is exactly the same length as a VW dizzy and the drive 'foot' is even the same. Simple.
We also used the 50mm TB from the Camira but the plan is to upgrade that to the 60mm Commodore TB as soon as possible.
If you do decide to use these parts on your VW it may be worth trying to track down a wiring loom from an 88 Camira too - the loom simply unplugs from
the Camira and needs very little modification to fit an air cooled VW motor.
Let us know how you get on...
R 
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vlad01
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 04:25 PM |
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you can use the the holden commy delco ECU and flash them with a suitable 4 cyl tune. The 6 cyl ignition control is controlled by the DFI module.
These delco ECU fire the injectors in batch mode so any number if cylinders can be configured with these ECU's The V8 commy use the same ECU as the
V6 but just a different tune and the V8 uses a dizzy while the V6 uses waste spark DFI. That there shows you how versatile these cheap as chips ECUs
are 
You can also disable the knock circuit, the BCM enable signal, IAC signals etc... so yeah kind of like a limited GM version of MS
Check out delcohacking.net heaps of stuff on these ECUs and the holden EFI system. People on there have done 4 cyl turbo applications of these
systems if I recall correct.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Super1302
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 07:41 PM |
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cheers.
a lot of info here. will have a read.
got told at work maybe the subaru equipment might be the go.
we'll see.
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vlad01
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 08:43 PM |
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One thing I like about the holden EFI system is its the same type of setup as the type 3 TLE bosch D-Jetronic system except 2 extra obvious
improvements
Direct fire ignition and the oxygen sensor. Apart from that its the same MAP based setup.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Newt
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| posted on October 20th, 2011 at 01:53 AM |
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Does it matter tht the Holden system is a closed system rather than an open system.
Wont it keep trying for A/F mixture around 14:1?
Newt
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vlad01
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| posted on October 20th, 2011 at 12:44 PM |
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???? yeah? when cruising. but it adjusts according to the map you load on it and what conditions are present. ie. cruse, partial/full load, engine
speed, temp etc....
all modern factory EFI systems are closed loop from what I know and have seen.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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 vw54
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| posted on October 21st, 2011 at 06:36 AM |
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What size is the throttle body
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vlad01
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| posted on October 21st, 2011 at 02:25 PM |
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V6 is 60mm V8 is 65mm.
I machined and fitted a 66mm butterfly in my falcodore.
I would recommend that if you buy a modified 70mm TB get it from mace engineering, Jason it think? is the only guy who know what he is doing with
them. The others on the market are typically home jobs where the vacuum ports are bogged or left wide open and air leaks like a sieve past the
butterfly. The walls collapse around the vacuum ports once machined over 64-65mm and need to have a solid plug pressed in and re machined and re
ported in the correct position. Also I have seen one guy sell these TB with perspex butterfly
http://www.maceengineering.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/mac...
I don't know if you can see what I have done with my own TB here. The outside was drilled taped and fitted with brass barb fittings, 6mm barbs I
think? the inside was plugged with solid brass tapered plugs then machined down with the rest of the TB bore, then the vacuum ports drilled in stock
position and size, then the outside barb fitting were locked in tight with some loctite.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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