| [ Total Views: 878 | Total Replies: 26 | Thread Id: 93746 ] |
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 rob53
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| posted on November 12th, 2011 at 04:18 PM |
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Could a dodgy carb prevent an engine from running?
Okays so I have recently rebuilt a stock 1500 engine, with lots a hiccups along the way.
Anyway I can't start the engine, I've set the timing, verified spark at each of the plugs, compression is good, so fuel is the problem. New stock
fuel pump installed.
The carb, well it's leaking fuel out of every possible gasket, shaft and etc. it's a vw 30 pict 2. I can get cylinder 3 and 4 to stutter/fire
briefly, but only with the starter running. Cylinder 1 and 2 never fire and the plugs a dry. Manifold is clear.
The car is on a slight slope to the left but not nothing major.
Would it be likely the carb is the cause for the engine not starting?
Thanks
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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 Bizarre
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| posted on November 12th, 2011 at 04:37 PM |
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strange that 1 and 2 are dry with a single carb
Futue te ipsum!!!
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bajachris88
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| posted on November 12th, 2011 at 05:59 PM |
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ur valves on that bank are doing their thing? The manifold boot on that side properly fastened with no tears?
If you got a vac leak, if you turn the motor and constantly pump the throttle (to inject fuel rather than expect vacuum to draw it) and it runs and
builts up revs without needing starter by constantly pumping the throttle, but stalls as soon as you take your foot off the pedal, then you know its a
vacuum leak. Maybe theres a pipe going off the manifold that is not sealed?
Dodgy carbs, well in my case 2 consecutive worn 34 pict 3's gave me heaps of grief. Neva a clean idle, it would just stall depite rebuilding with
carb kits. I assumed there were vacuum losses from the throttle shafts. I got a rebuilt (and confirmed working) Stromberg, dunno if its an actual
upgrade to say, but it now runs and idles the best i have EVER had it.
Seems that they are simply ultra sensative to pressure loss, and thus any worn places for vacuum leaks to occur will give you grief (like the throttle
butterfly shafts)
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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rob53
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 08:00 AM |
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Valves are good, brand new heads. It's a single port manifold (one fixed piece). Pumping the pedal does seem to help a little, but it's hard to say
for certain.
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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rob53
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 10:37 AM |
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Bit of an update, I've managed to start the engine but still runs on 3 and 4 only quite roughly. I had to tie the choke to stop it turning because it
has a tendency to rotate almost 360 degrees so the stepping bit is backwards. Even if it's disconnected from power, it still rotates. I thought it
only rotates based on the temperature of the coil in the choke.
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on November 13th, 2011 at 11:24 AM |
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That means that the choke isn't working properly..
the flap should be connected to a spring inside the choke heater part where the wire goes...
undo the three screws holding the choke heater body until it can be turned by hand,,, turn the body until the choke flap is always open... if You
cannot do this then it sounds like the electric body needs replacing... as the heater or spring is broken.
and that is why the adjuster is 180 degrees out...
make sure that the choke idle adjuster bits on the shaft are actually located on the shaft with the flat sides so it turns as the shaft does...
I hope this helps... that would stop Your engine...
choking it... NO Air... No Go..
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 11:32 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rob53
Okays so I have recently rebuilt a stock 1500 engine, with lots a hiccups along the way.
Anyway I can't start the engine, I've set the timing, verified spark at each of the plugs, compression is good, so fuel is the problem. New stock
fuel pump installed.
The carb, well it's leaking fuel out of every possible gasket, shaft and etc. it's a vw 30 pict 2. I can get cylinder 3 and 4 to stutter/fire
briefly, but only with the starter running. Cylinder 1 and 2 never fire and the plugs a dry. Manifold is clear.
The car is on a slight slope to the left but not nothing major.
Would it be likely the carb is the cause for the engine not starting?
Thanks
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Fuel goes into the manifold... and is sucked into all cylinders
which fire as required with spark and compression...
the shafts of carburetors should be oiled every time You check Your oil... You can use the oil off the end of the dipstick.. lol only need one drop
on each moving part..
BUT it will stop wear... and this would have been done at every service in the 50s and 60s... and early 70s..
I have always oiled [lubricated] the carby shafts on every car I've had... so I;ve never had a worn carby shaft..
If it moves it needs lubrication - or it will wear....
if it has worn You can use grease....
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Anthiron
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 03:48 PM |
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how rough? wont run unless u pump the pedal?
is your distributor drive gear in backwards?
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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rob53
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 07:02 PM |
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I have to press the pedal half way, the engine was able to maintain a steady speed then it would stutter and revs die down to near stalling then pick
up speed again. It happens every 15 seconds or so. Also the exhaust smells rich on petrol. But 1 and 2 don't fire so maybe that's the major reason.
Oh the the distributor drive gear is definitely the right way round.
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 09:10 PM |
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if there isn't any spark on 1 & 2 it must be the distributor cap
these should be replaced along with rotor and spark plugs etc..
or the leads on 1 & 2...
silicon leads [even when new] can be broken inside when pulling the leads off the spark plugs or dizzy cap...
wire spark plug leads work all the time... as the wire cannot break..
cap-rotor- and all leads need to be checked with a multimeter
plus the spark plug resistor bits that fit on the spark plug..
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 09:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rob53
Okays so I have recently rebuilt a stock 1500 engine, with lots a hiccups along the way.
Anyway I can't start the engine, I've set the timing, verified spark at each of the plugs, compression is good, so fuel is the problem. New stock
fuel pump installed.
The carb, well it's leaking fuel out of every possible gasket, shaft and etc. it's a vw 30 pict 2. I can get cylinder 3 and 4 to stutter/fire
briefly, but only with the starter running. Cylinder 1 and 2 never fire and the plugs a dry. Manifold is clear.
The car is on a slight slope to the left but not nothing major.
Would it be likely the carb is the cause for the engine not starting?
Thanks
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I think there may be different problems here...
carby.. distributor... leads ..???
all the engine needs is spark-fuel-air- and then compression..
fuel shouldn't come out of anything on the carby...
Lee
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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 barls
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| posted on November 13th, 2011 at 09:15 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rob53
Valves are good, brand new heads. It's a single port manifold (one fixed piece). Pumping the pedal does seem to help a little, but it's hard to say
for certain.
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you sure that the valves are operating on one and two.
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rob53
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 09:24 AM |
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The valves appeared to be working when I set the valve spacing so I assume their ok. Any way to verify apart from removing the head?
The distributor is new (cheapo svda), new german leads, new fuel pump, new mexican heads.
I tested spark on each plug and lead and they all worked ok.
I have a theory that maybe the carb is not atomizing the fuel properly and so it the fuel may be dripping into 3 and 4 since the car is leaning
slightly to the left. Could this be possible?
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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bajachris88
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 01:26 PM |
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not flooding? Fuels not pouring out of your fuel bowl as you turn due to float and needle in carb not properly adjusted?
Therefore as you turn engine, the over-full fuel bowl keeps getting fuel pump pressure drowning the donk?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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rob53
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 03:30 PM |
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Not sure, the carb was taken from taken off a running engine a looong time ago. To check that, would I just continue to turn the engine over by hand
watching down the carb barrel?
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 05:49 PM |
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or just run it for a bit or turn it for a bit and take the carb top off and see where the level of the fuel sits in the float bowl.
Or just watch down the guts of it as someone turns it.
But you said spark plugs 1 and 2 looked dry??
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Klaus
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 06:43 PM |
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is it spraying fuel in when your pumping from nozzle inside carb ? idle jet blocked best is to pull carb apart give it a clean blow out with
compressor then new gasket kit or atleast carb to manifold , junk that pos dizzy and replace points in your old one and try that. Firing order right ,
pop rocker cover off and see if everything moves and valves are set right
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rob53
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 06:56 PM |
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The old dissy is seized up, not used for at least 20 years! Plus was outside in the weather for a while too. I'll rebuild it another time after
getting this engine running (I hope!).
1 & 2 were dry but I'll check again cause last I checked was before I got it to a sputtering start. I'll try adjusting the choke as lee
suggested while I'm at it.
As for the carb spraying fuel, I couldn't see it but can hear it.
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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ian.mezz
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 07:08 PM |
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did you set all of the tappets ?????
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rob53
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 07:11 PM |
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Yep 3 times! Suppose a forth time wouldn't hurt in case I done something stupid
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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ian.mezz
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 07:29 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rob53
Yep 3 times! Suppose a forth time wouldn't hurt in case I done something stupid
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like this??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozht-_iu3Ew
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rob53
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 08:09 PM |
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Yep that's what I done. One thing is that when I installed the distributor drive I didn't get it perfect, it's pointing more to 4 o'clock rather
that 3 o'clock, but I rotated the distributor to compensate, but the rotor is pointing to 2 o'clock rather than 5 o'clock at tdc like in the
video.. I adjusted the leads positions to match, but I expected the rotor to point to 6 o'clock.
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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rob53
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 08:34 PM |
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I'm starting the think I messed up installing the dissy, maybe I didn't set it on no 1 tdc, but on no 3 tdc . . .
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on November 14th, 2011 at 09:27 PM |
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Adjust the dissy timing statically to 7.5 degrees BTDC (7.5 degrees to teh right of the TDC mark on a degree pulley for cylinder 1) using this neat
trick.
With the crankshaft pulley turned to 7.5 degrees (not at tdc, but at the required time mark), loosen the dissy, and turn the dissy with the ignition
on. When the dissy turns forward or back enough to POP (its a faint noise, will have to listen carefully), thats when you know its at 7.5 degrees. And
should hence be sparking cylinder 1.
Jace on here taught me that tick a few moons ago 
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Anthiron
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| posted on November 15th, 2011 at 02:32 AM |
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Also for the record when your engine is running the carbie shouldn't leak fuel. Any leaks while the engine is running become vacuum leaks not fuel
leaks as the engine is essentially sucking fuel in. It is internally pressurized. I think it sounds like dissy or valves not carbie. Yes time your
dissy statically then do the valves one more time.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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ian.mezz
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| posted on November 15th, 2011 at 07:19 AM |
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as long as they are firing in the right order when the valves are closed . like in the link ,
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rob53
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| posted on November 27th, 2011 at 07:44 AM |
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Well it's solved! I made a silly mistake, I mistaken no3 tdc as no1 tdc when doing valve adjustments and distributor lead order! So I after I rotated
the engine to no1 tdc, the valve clearance was WAY out! No wonder 1 and 2 plugs were dry!
Carb still leaks fuel almost everywhere, but the engine runs ok.
Thanks everyone for the help.
Thats not rust, it's ah ... orange primer ... yep that's what it is ...
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