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 ladd
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| posted on January 4th, 2012 at 12:10 PM |
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Fastback rear torsion bar height
What is the correct/standard rear torsion bar height for a fastback?
Does anyone know or where to find this info?
Thanks.
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cruiser
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| posted on January 4th, 2012 at 12:26 PM |
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I think you could maybe only base this from older photos.
The cars/bars sag with age so the rear is likely lower than original even if the height has never been touched.
Stock height just looks too high for me.
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Burrelli
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| posted on January 4th, 2012 at 07:10 PM |
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Fasty and Notch
Sping plates unloaded
Swinger 23mm torsion bars 20 degrees + 50'
IRS 22mm torsion bars 23 degrees + 50'
Cars with equalizer spring (z bar) 22 degrees 30' + 50' ( very few of these in Australia)
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ladd
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| posted on January 4th, 2012 at 10:58 PM |
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Nice one Burrelli.
Thanks.
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cruiser
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| posted on January 5th, 2012 at 11:04 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Burrelli
Cars with equalizer spring (z bar) 22 degrees 30' + 50' ( very few of these in Australia)
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My 68 notch has this.
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Burrelli
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| posted on January 5th, 2012 at 11:48 PM |
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Yeah cruiser I thought your car must have a Z bar.
It's Interesting how they work. Sort of opposite to a sway bar.
Softer suspension with more body roll but the Z bar keeps the wheels on the ground.
Smaller swinger lenth torsion bar 22mm and small front sway bar 11mm on all cars with Z bars even Squarebacks.
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cruiser
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| posted on January 9th, 2012 at 01:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Burrelli
Yeah cruiser I thought your car must have a Z bar.
It's Interesting how they work. Sort of opposite to a sway bar.
Softer suspension with more body roll but the Z bar keeps the wheels on the ground.
Smaller swinger lenth torsion bar 22mm and small front sway bar 11mm on all cars with Z bars even Squarebacks.
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That's interesting, I never knew that the torsion bars were any different to other cars.
I cant see any kind of external sway bar on the front though, only the bars through the beam.
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Snap Crackle Bang
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| posted on January 9th, 2012 at 07:49 AM |
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The type 3 front suspension has the anti-roll bar inside the beam.
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cruiser
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| posted on January 9th, 2012 at 09:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Snap Crackle Bang
The type 3 front suspension has the anti-roll bar inside the beam.
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Ok, but theyre bigger than 11mm I think?
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vlad01
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| posted on January 9th, 2012 at 01:44 PM |
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nope normally 10mm for NB and FB and 13mm for SB.
11mm is an unusual one 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Burrelli
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| posted on January 9th, 2012 at 08:50 PM |
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The top trailing arms on a Type 3 front end are the sway bar, the bottom trailing arms have the torsion bars.
I have the specs for these to 1970.
vlad the two sizes of the front sway bar are 11mm and 13.7mm by my little book.
There is a bit of confusion about which cars had which sway bar.
All Australian and German Notch and Fasty had the 11mm front sway bar till 69 when the IRS manual came out(68 Auto has 11mm aswell but factory
replacement is 13.7mm). All IRS cars from 69 had the 13.7mm sway bar.
Unless they change after 70 but I don't think they did.
All Squarebacks had the 13.7mm sway bar.
Except if they were models fitted with the equalizer spring(Z bar). All cars with the Z bar had 11mm sway bars.
Right through production the equalizer spring was an option on the German squarebacks (Swinger late models ). Normal Squarebacks have 375kg carrying capacity, equalizer spring models have 460kg carring
capacity.
Also German cars like cruisers (67-68models) had the Z bar in the 375kg form. Squares had the 11mm sway bar.
Cruiser Have you read how too mod the Z bar for better handling? Maybe the bigger front sway bar would be good way to go with a Z bar mod?. If you
wanted to go that way. I have never driven one but I think you can get Z bar cars to handle well.
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cruiser
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| posted on January 11th, 2012 at 10:42 AM |
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I had my beam apart a while ago and was thinking of the lower bars which are the bigger ones with the painted stripes. I must have had the top rod out
too as I took off all four arms for painting.
So I should switch the top torsion bar for the 13.7mm. That would make it a bit stiffer up front and probably help with my tyres not hitting my fender
as I pull into my drive and over the small kerb. I want to go a bit lower too so this sounds like a must then?
What would I do to the Z bar?
Apologies to the original poster for this apparent highjack.
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Burrelli
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| posted on January 11th, 2012 at 08:26 PM |
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The Z bar is the factory camber compensator but standard it does not work all the time because it is used as a over load spring. So what you can do
is put spacers in the drop links where they go through the swing axles so the Z bar is working all the time. This will make the car ride a bit harder
in the back then the bigger front sway bar would be good I think.
I read some stuff about the mod to the Z bar in "How to hot rod your VW" years ago, but I have never done it myself.
Your car is lowered so Z bar may be working all the time anyhow, I don't know. Also remember if your car is lowered so far that it very close or on
the bump stops the Z bar and sway bar are not going to be doing much.
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ladd
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| posted on January 11th, 2012 at 09:15 PM |
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No worries cruiser, all good, nice to find out more related info.
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cruiser
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| posted on January 12th, 2012 at 12:44 AM |
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I don't think my rear has been lowered since the car seemed 100% stock when I got it. The rear seemed lower than stock but I have always just thought
it had sagged and the front was way high but now it has dropped spindles so it looks almost right now. One more notch down on the front one day.
I think my biggest handling issue is probably the 30? year old tyres. The front really moves around at speed or with strong winds. The tyres all have
the profile as 86T and not the usual profile % we know today. 165 R15 86T.
I feel special now having the Z bar
Thanks guys.
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Burrelli
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| posted on January 13th, 2012 at 06:49 PM |
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I've have had old tyres on my cars in the past and they are the first thing you should get rid of. Your car will be so much safer are better to drive
you will wish you did it years ago.
165r15 is the standard size for your car. The 86 is the load rating which important in Australia to have the correct load rating for your car. The T
is the speed rating which don't matter because you are only allowed to do 110kph.
86=530kg per tyre
T=190kph
Wheel alignment, shocks, rear torsion bushers, front sway bar adjustment, ball joints, tie rod ends, steering box play are all thing that will affect
how stable the car is at speed.
Also when you lower the front and give the car rake you increase the caster which makes the car steer faster.
So you can lower the back a little, even 10mm you will feel. On a beetle you could fit caster shims to the front end but I have never seen them for a
type 3. Late type3s have more caster built into the rubber between the beam and the pan but I don't know what year the change was made. I'm guessing
your year with the Z bar????
Oh yeah with a type3 you are already special with Z bay you are real special
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cruiser
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| posted on January 14th, 2012 at 12:13 AM |
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I have been through all the ball joints (replaced one), had the alignment done when the spindles were fitted and had a good look at the steering box
too. That all seems ok.
I do have the built up beam rubbers that are thicker on one side.
I have always been putting off buying tyres until I can afford the wheels I want, stock chrome 5.5". But that won't happen until after it's
painted. The painting may happen soon though.
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Burrelli
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| posted on January 15th, 2012 at 03:11 PM |
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I had a look at the specs I have for Type3s to 1970 and it only has one setting for caster. So if what I have read in the past is right and latter
model type3 do have more caster it must be after 1970.
I had 5.5 chrome Mangles on my old 73 Square, I got them on in the early 90s. I think if you are having problems with stock wheels and tyre hitting
the guards with the lowered spindles it going to be more of a problem with the Mangles.
Stock wheels are +46 offset
5.5 Mangles are +25-+30 offset
You may have to run smaller diameter and or thinner tyres on the front if you want to get away from the rubbing. You could also go for the 4.5 mangle
up front, I think they have more offset. I have read the 4.5s have 46mm offset but they could be 34mm the same as beetle I don't know.
Lowered Type3 with what wheels and tyres? is not easy.
I have 6" Porsche Cookies +35 offset all round on my 70 Square. Its lowered about 40mm in the rear with 205/65s and 50mm front 165sr15. It rides not
as good as stock and I would like lowered spindles so I could put the front trailing arms back to the stock angle and still have a 46mm drop but I
know the tyres will eat the guards then.
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