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 TCS_58
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| posted on January 15th, 2012 at 02:47 PM |
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Air intake CFM
Hey guys, I have been trolling away and I can't really find anything on the subject so.. I was hoping some of the more experienced guys could tell me
what amount of airflow does a Type 1 beetle intake have.
I'll put it more specifically,the grilled area below the rear windscreen that is used to funnel air into the engine bay. What amount of airflow does
this area see? ie:CFM etc. I know it's a bit of a long shot but would be very handy to know to start working out intake calculations.
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Smiley
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| posted on January 15th, 2012 at 05:24 PM |
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It also depends on what model of car you have. The early cars had no vents in the decklid (unless they were a factory cab) whereas the later cars had
one or two vows of vents to help increase airflow. For two reasons, one, that later engines are a larger capacity (1600) and consumed more air, and
two, the later engines had the doghouse fanshoud with the larger width fan, this also consumes more air.
How big an engine are you planning on running? There are a number of ways to help get more air into the engine bay. The easiest is to fit a 4 vent
decklid, but only if you have a later bodyshape (1500/superbugs).
I've also seen people cut a large hole in the back of the engine lid behind where the numberplate is. This hole is slightly smaller than the number
plate, you then attach the plate with standoff studs to allow air to flow under the plate and into the hole. Visibly the engine lid looks no different
when the plate is fitted.
A number of people have also made ducts from the inner guard through and into an airbox. Typically the ducts run to the front of the rear mudguard
where a hole is cut as an intake.
This is just some of the stuff that people out there have come up with, I'm sure plenty more ideas will be added to your thread.
Smiley 
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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greedy53
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| posted on January 15th, 2012 at 05:34 PM |
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i had a bug with no roof, someone thought it needed an open feel , so from what i have been told the roof of bugs are designbed to help the flow of
air into thye engine area
without the roof i decided to get air from uhder the shelf behind the back seat using a 6 inch 90 degree bend from my local hardware by carefully
cutting a hole in thefloor and another into the firewall with the air directed straight at the fan hole it nearly doubled the amount of air getting to
the engine,i used primitave tools a wind gauge but it showed the differance
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TCS_58
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| posted on January 15th, 2012 at 10:18 PM |
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Hey Smiley, I have a 58 bug so I just have the vents under the screen, not on the decklid. I'm not sure if adding the decklid vents will suit my
application but it's worth a look anyway. I haven't seen any intake designs from behind the numberplate, might try and find some images.. I have
thought of adding ducts under the rear wheel arches to feed into the bay but again, it all comes down to a figure that has been measured BEFORE I make
the change. I'm really trying hard not to change the original look of the body and keep everything "stealth". The engine I'll be running is a 13B
so I can't run the OE fanshrouds etc. This is all about the cooling side for the transplant, I'm currently looking at options to have the radiator
running above the engine,45 degree angle, in a custom isolated boxed setup under the intake vents(with dual fans) to use it for cooling and using the
ducting ideas to the rear of the guards to disapate the heat away from the engine and out of the bay.
The rear seat wont be in use and I'm considering having Big Wigs make up one of their sheetmetal interiors so I can extend the firewall out to
accomodate the radiator without everything being so tightly sqeezed in.
@greedy53, thanks for the info but unfortunately I need to use the original air intake design for the route I'm choosing, though I'm keen to know
more about your wind gauge! I think this would help alot.
Hope this paints a clearer picture about what I need and want to achieve, thanks for all your input so far
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 matberry
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| posted on January 15th, 2012 at 10:39 PM |
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By memory, the workshop manual states that the early fan that was on your car moved 20 cubic feet of air per second at 4000rpm.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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TCS_58
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| posted on January 15th, 2012 at 10:58 PM |
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@matberry, awesome mate! That is the kinda info I'm looking for! Wow, 1200 cfm, that's more than I thought! Makes me wonder how much more i can move
using dual 8" fans that are directly under the intake. Thanks heaps mate
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Joel
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| posted on January 16th, 2012 at 07:23 AM |
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Soon as you mentioned 13B that changes everything.
The vents are there cos originally you have a cooling fan that is sealed into the engine bay and has to pull in a specific CFM to keep an engine
cool.
Chucking a rotary in there it's no longer sealed into the engine bay so you get all the road draft from underneath as well as the only thing needing
air is the carb.
Just make sure you have a decent size radiator in the front with good airflow too and from.
A rear rad is never gonna keep a rotary cool...
Oh and an oil cooler mounted with decent air flow.
That was the downfall of my old 13B powered bug, oil cooler was mounted near the gearbox and didn't get enough air flow.
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TCS_58
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| posted on January 16th, 2012 at 08:32 PM |
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If the intake for the injection wasn't an issue, would you still say mount it in the front? And why? If the bay isn't sealed I don't see why that
would be problematic, seeing as the draft would allow air to move freely out off the bay and the heat with it. I'm basing this off alot of
conversions I've seen with people running radiators inside the rear of the car. Wouldn't utilizing the vents under the screen with the required CFM
of air being drawn from the fans through a sealed boxed area where the radiator sits be enough?
Oil cooler is 99% sorted, already got the heads up from alot of people on this issue, cheers.
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1303Steve
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| posted on January 16th, 2012 at 09:34 PM |
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Hi
You cant rely on fans to pull the air in on a rear mount system, as soon as you get some speed up the motor will get hot and you need to slow down,
there's no fun in that.
Have a read through some of the rear mount failures in the non VW conversion part of this site.
BTW are 13bs legal in your state in a bug?
Steve
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Joel
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| posted on January 17th, 2012 at 12:07 PM |
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Most of the rear mount rad setups you see are just for show, or the owners just wont admit to the problems they have with them.
As Steve said there are few members on here that have tried rear mount rads only to give up and relocate them to the front.
You will end up speed limited by the fans, they can cope upto a set heat load but beyond that they just cant keep up, and all the ugly scoops in the
world aren't gonna help.
Theres a guy on the samba with a rear mount rad.
His fan turns on after 5 mins and stays on, I'm waiting for the day his fan burns out and he cooks his engine.
You can have a rad in the front with a barely noticable intake down low, you dont need giant holes in the hood like people would have you believe.
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TCS_58
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| posted on January 18th, 2012 at 01:33 AM |
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Can you share more info on the front mount using a barely noticable intake, putting holes in the hood isn't an option for me. It just looks ugly to
me and ruins the lines of the body. I have a few ideas for a front mount too, I just wanted to see if a rear was possible.
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Joel
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| posted on January 18th, 2012 at 08:22 AM |
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Here's a couple of other 58s with discrete rad installs
Roachs on the samba
And Micks old 58 bug on here
And a 61 ragtop
And you don't get much more stealthy than Jorgs sleeper
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=35720
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TCS_58
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| posted on January 19th, 2012 at 12:39 PM |
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Thanks heaps for chiming in on this thread Joel! Really good examples here that I have kinda visualised before but haven't seen any pics of yet until
now. I think you may of saved my motor before it even got build 
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vlad01
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| posted on January 19th, 2012 at 10:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Most of the rear mount rad setups you see are just for show, or the owners just wont admit to the problems they have with them.
As Steve said there are few members on here that have tried rear mount rads only to give up and relocate them to the front.
You will end up speed limited by the fans, they can cope upto a set heat load but beyond that they just cant keep up, and all the ugly scoops in the
world aren't gonna help.
Theres a guy on the samba with a rear mount rad.
His fan turns on after 5 mins and stays on, I'm waiting for the day his fan burns out and he cooks his engine.
You can have a rad in the front with a barely noticable intake down low, you dont need giant holes in the hood like people would have you believe.
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that last statment is so true.
take the EF falcon for example, big hot running 6 cylinder.
No grill at all only a narrow slot at the bottom of the bumper.
All it has is the volume infront of the radiator with the only opening in the bumper at the bottom, one of those usual airfoils at the bottom/behind
the rad to generate a vacuum.
its simple and it works. and probably one of the best looking post 70 fords because of it
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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TCS_58
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| posted on January 21st, 2012 at 07:19 PM |
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@ Vlad, my daily is a EF 5L 
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vlad01
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| posted on January 21st, 2012 at 09:47 PM |
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I like the tickford xr6 engines in those cars. the V8 is a pointless engine in the EA-2000ish? fords imho
If you keep on top of everything in those EF-ELs they are desent cars, though they do seen to suffer a lot of electrical problems and the later models
just worse and worse.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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