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 72superbug
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| posted on February 10th, 2012 at 10:34 PM |
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The hype surrounding SUPER BEETLES
can someone who has more vw beetle love and experience tell me why the hype regarding buying pre superbeetle rather then superbeetle.....some say
super beetles harder to find parts...harder to lower as they use macpherson system rather then drop spindle.......is it the body differnce...please
someone give me your thoughts
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1916baja
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| posted on February 10th, 2012 at 11:32 PM |
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Ummm personally i dont like the look of supers, they just look all bulbous and odd to me. thats just me though, everybody has there own thing.
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72superbug
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 12:10 AM |
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personally i like the pre super models becaise tje rear lid has nicer contours and i like the horn
grills and the head and tail lights.......might sound lame but they are different than the super beetles but not taking nothing away from supers as i
own one and love it
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68AutoBug
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 12:21 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 72superbug
can someone who has more vw beetle love and experience tell me why the hype regarding buying pre superbeetle rather then superbeetle.....some say
super beetles harder to find parts...harder to lower as they use macpherson system rather then drop spindle.......is it the body difference...please
someone give me your thoughts
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Sorry,
I don't like the look of Superbugs [flat screen] and hate the 1303 L beetles..
but I did own a superbug in the 70s.. was a good car..
the 1303s with their panoramic windscreen was just too different to a real beetle with a flat dash...
the superbug had a large bulging bonnet compared to the flatish non supers bonnets.. supers had about double the boot space with their flat spare
wheel and redesigned fuel tank--
Many of Us prefer the torsion bar front end even though Our turning circle is larger than a superbug..
Remembering that My first beetle was a used 1959 model in the 60s.. I really like the 68-69-70 non supers..
which had the vertical headlamps disc brakes 12 volts and proper two speed wipers... these were called the New beetle in Germany in 1968...
as far as parts go... I don';t think there is any difference in the parts - Most Superbugs were sold in the USA so parts are no problem.. Supers
are virtually identical to Non supers from the door hinges back... so bonnet front guards front valance etc are all different to non supers..
Windscreen is the same as a 1968-69-70 models..
Supers are now being accepted by most VW enthusiasts as they are still Beetles and all beetles are OK... and none are getting any younger...
Superbugs have the more modern Mcpherson strut front suspension which is common to most modern cars and they have the IRS [independant rearsuspension] with constant velocity joint rear axles.
for track use they are popular with the IRS and struts..
So, You will be pleased to know... there isn't anything bad about them... lol
I just prefer the torsion bar front end... they are very tough..
cheers
LEE
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 12:23 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 72superbug
personally i like the pre super models becaise tje rear lid has nicer contours and i like the horn
grills and the head and tail lights.......might sound lame but they are different than the super beetles but not taking nothing away from supers as i
own one and love it
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I have seen a few pics lately where late beetles [after 1967]
have the horn grills.. and early tail lamps..
also the front of superbugs really needs lowering about 50mm minimum for looks...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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1916baja
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 12:42 AM |
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those are some nice supers.... they look ok when you put some nice wheels, a decent paint job and lower them....
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 Bizarre
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 06:52 AM |
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as a Super owner I find it has more to do that it doesnt have a beam front end. You cant take the body off per se. You dont have pedigree.
It is definitely more a CLF (Cal Look Forum) and DKP (Der Kleiner Panzers) thing. Google them.
The Europeans lover the Supperbeetles (1302 & 1303). Supers are moe adaptable to the Porsce, Remmele & kevlar look
10-15 years ago when SBO forum started it grew HUGE. That then joined with Shop Talk
That is where i found the almost apartheid attitude.
My first beetle was a 1964 - but that was back in 1979.
I have only driven 1303's since then
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Joel
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 09:23 AM |
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Most of the general public don't even pick the visual difference between supers or standards till it's pointed out let alone know there were
actually 2 different models.
Superbugs are one of the easiest to get parts for in Aus as they were so common.
Nearly all the bugs sold in the 70s were superbugs as they got disc brakes, 1600 engine, IRS, bigger boot etc when the cheaper standard bugs only had
1300, swing axle and 4 wheel drums, less trim and boot space for a toothbrush, so there's alot more of Supers around but rust in the floor pans and
back pillars from the death foam was the big killer.
Agree with Mick, it takes the right stance and rims to get a super looking right, a bog stock one is very plain, but so are all standard 68 on bugs
when left standard.
I was an early beetle snob originally for the visual appeal, but once I got bitten by the performance bug so to speak I realised the handling of
Mcpherson strut front end still used in todays new cars can be developed so much further than the old 30s designed torsion bar layout.
There's a good reason nearly all the Germanlookers are based on strut bugs.
The beam front end has it's limitations and the curved screen of Lbugs has big aerodynamic advantages as well as the safety aspects.
Being a more complex front end means more to go wrong and the old timers that are more familiar with the torsion bar front end generally don't know
where to start when things like the 50mph shimmy starts so they get a bad rap for that especially when the basic beam front end thrives on neglect.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 10:30 AM |
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Supers were made for upcoming USA safety laws... especially the 1303... but most of the safety laws didn't eventuate so the 1976 beetle was a NON
Super although Karmann kept making the Karmann cabriolet beetles using 1303S parts... until they stopped making them.
Its just a personal thing really... I couldn't tell the difference between a superbug [1302] and normal beetle for many many years.. lol..
I suppose You could say that non supers are old school..???
whereas the supers are more modern especially the 1303..
interesting that only approx 1600 1303s were ever sold in the UK..
and hundreds of thousands in North America..
Performance wise road holding the Supers have it all...
if You are just using as an a daily or weekly driver then any will do... lol..
A done up 1303 really looks modern ...
just My thoughts
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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h
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 11:08 AM |
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I'm not a fan of fat chicks  
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ian.mezz
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 11:17 AM |
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We have one of each
as long as the cars are well maintain they are all good to drive.
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 11:37 AM |
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I have loved the look of supers from when they first came out - I reckon they look more 'muscly' and touigher.
The older beetles look more 'feminine', if that is the right word? IMHO
From your ole' mate Jeff
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Joel
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 11:57 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by h
I'm not a fan of fat chicks
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That one always sparks interesting debate from the people who thought fat chick only meant Super Beetles.
Just for those who don't know fat chick refers too all late model VWs be it 68 on bugs, bay window kombis, late type 3, KGs etc, not just Super
beetles.
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h
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 01:31 PM |
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^nono no debate required
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Joel
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 02:00 PM |
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Well you're no bloody fun then.
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ducati 1100
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 04:29 PM |
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I spent most of my formative years in a super that my mum had, great car and with a stance adjustment they look the "shizzle".
i prefer the lines of the older models tho IMHO, and as much of a pig as mines been to get back on the road i wouldn't swap it for anything. i sold
my WRX just to buy it, you can say that i have bugs in the brain (or whats left of it)
1966 1300 Beetle, 12v conversion- 1600 rat. |
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 05:55 PM |
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Lee they sold plenty of strut bugs in the UK. However for the UK market from 1971 the choice was only the basic 1200 torsion bar Beetle, or the basic
1300cc strut Beetle with front drums and low-back seats (called the 1302 or 1303, dependng on the year). The 1600cc disk brake strut Beetle (called
the 1302S or 1303S) was only available by special order and was rather more expensive. It's THIS version that didn't sell many, and probably what
you're thinking of. Find a copy of 'Safer Motoring', January 1974. Peter Noad tests a new UK-spec 1300c drum brake 1303.
The US market got the deluxe strut Beetle with 1600cc engine, but it wasn't a 1302S or 1303S as the US cars had front drums. Volkswagen of America
sold them as the 'Super Beetle.'
Australia also never saw the basic 1300cc strut Beetle (1302 or 1303). Here our basic 1300cc Beetle was torsion bar with drums and swing axles. Ours
were a bit like like the Euro 1302S and 1303S, but they were made in Melbourne and painted in Datsun paint colours. Ours were sold as the Superbug S,
and the Superbug L. Volkswagen called their rear the 'double joint' rear end, NOT 'IRS'. Swing axle is also 'IRS.'
The 1975 Superbug L was just the second VW on our market to have self-stabilising steering geometry, called Negative Steering Roll Radius. Only the
Passat had it earlier.
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vlad01
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 06:30 PM |
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If I had to have a bug it would be a 1303 done up as a german looker.
Nothing good in early bugs imho.
oh and super have Mc pherson strut which is pure F**king EPIC WIN! 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Smiley
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 06:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
oh and super have Mc pherson strut which is pure F**king EPIC WIN!
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Only on road they are....
Smiley 
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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vlad01
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 06:46 PM |
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Yes your point?
I was going to say a standard bug front end looks like something off a massey furguson 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Smiley
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 08:46 PM |
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Just saying that there are horses for courses. There's no way that a Superbug could keep up with my tractor front end Baja on a rough track without
destroying itself.
So they may be pure epic win in one respect, and absolute epic fail in another.
just goes to show that there's not a be all and end all.
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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h
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 10:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
If I...
....Nothing good in early bugs imho.
....
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eye test is in order so you can see the slender figures
book it in quick n you can see the light!!
(it can be bulk billed)
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vlad01
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 10:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Smiley
Just saying that there are horses for courses. There's no way that a Superbug could keep up with my tractor front end Baja on a rough track without
destroying itself.
So they may be pure epic win in one respect, and absolute epic fail in another.
just goes to show that there's not a be all and end all.
Smiley
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bugs were built as road cars, thats just how I see it anyways.
Kinda stupid compairing the 3 suspention setups on different surfaces to eachother and surfaces the car was never intended for when it left the
factory.
Its like saying "well my 4x4 is better at handling than that model of 4x4, well its better on road than yours though"
the argument is invalid
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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vlad01
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 10:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by h
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
If I...
....Nothing good in early bugs imho.
....
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eye test is in order so you can see the slender figures
book it in quick n you can see the light!!
(it can be bulk billed)
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Nup, sorry mate. Super is way cooler  for a bug anyway.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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narumi
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 11:08 PM |
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I have a Super and a 69, Super is registered, 69 in pieces, therefore Super ftw
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Arpspasm
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| posted on February 11th, 2012 at 11:56 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Smiley
Just saying that there are horses for courses. There's no way that a Superbug could keep up with my tractor front end Baja on a rough track without
destroying itself.
Smiley
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No but surely it would be fun trying
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68AutoBug
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| posted on February 12th, 2012 at 01:13 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
Lee they sold plenty of strut bugs in the UK. However for the UK market from 1971 the choice was only the basic 1200 torsion bar Beetle, or the basic
1300cc strut Beetle with front drums and low-back seats (called the 1302 or 1303, dependng on the year). The 1600cc disk brake strut Beetle (called
the 1302S or 1303S) was only available by special order and was rather more expensive. It's THIS version that didn't sell many, and probably what
you're thinking of. Find a copy of 'Safer Motoring', January 1974. Peter Noad tests a new UK-spec 1300c drum brake 1303.
The US market got the deluxe strut Beetle with 1600cc engine, but it wasn't a 1302S or 1303S as the US cars had front drums. Volkswagen of America
sold them as the 'Super Beetle.'
Australia also never saw the basic 1300cc strut Beetle (1302 or 1303). Here our basic 1300cc Beetle was torsion bar with drums and swing axles. Ours
were a bit like like the Euro 1302S and 1303S, but they were made in Melbourne and painted in Datsun paint colours. Ours were sold as the Superbug S,
and the Superbug L. Volkswagen called their rear the 'double joint' rear end, NOT 'IRS'. Swing axle is also 'IRS.'
The 1975 Superbug L was just the second VW on our market to have self-stabilising steering geometry, called Negative Steering Roll Radius. Only the
Passat had it earlier.
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Yes, I've just been reading a book from the UK beetles from 1968> very interesting... I threw all My safer motor mags out a few years ago... still
have one from 1974..
That may have been the case with the 1303 in the UK..
they may have mentioned the cost [1600 engines]
the book calls engine horsepower something like 34PS or 40PS which means nothing to Me... but the 1200 and 1300 were the biggest sellers... probably
because of the cost of the cars plus the high cost of fuel over there.
the late 1303s with the negative steering radius was that because of the rack & pinion steering??
Yes, I've seen pics of Datsuns beetles type 3s and Volvos all the same colors on the production line... local ex VW mechanic said they made trucks
there too... I think Mercedes or MAN.. can't remember.. He did tell Me that only VWs were dipped into the paint ... the others weren;'t ... lol
cheers
LEE
PS: couldn't sleep... 2.13am.. lol
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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tar76
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| posted on February 12th, 2012 at 06:03 AM |
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I'm a fan of both!
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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Smiley
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| posted on February 12th, 2012 at 10:52 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
bugs were built as road cars, thats just how I see it anyways.
Kinda stupid compairing the 3 suspention setups on different surfaces to eachother and surfaces the car was never intended for when it left the
factory.
Its like saying "well my 4x4 is better at handling than that model of 4x4, well its better on road than yours though"
the argument is invalid
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It's not invalid. I'm just saying that it's not a useless form of suspension. I'm well aware that Macpherson strut is superior in most ways, but
tractor front ends have been going strong for a good +75 years now. And as far as the not intended for offroad use goes, for a car that was designed
for the autobahns, Porsche did a remarkable job of producing a suspension design that was destined to win the Baja 1000 offroad race 
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Arpspasm
No but surely it would be fun trying
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You can come up my way for a play anytime you want
| Quote: | Originally
posted by tar76
I'm a fan of both!
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So am I. They're all VWs at the end of the day, and that's why we're all all here. If they were all the same there's no variety, how boring a
place would this be??
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on February 13th, 2012 at 07:16 AM |
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Yes Lee, the UK vw market had some strange things going on in the early 1970s, and it's interesting to read period VW magazines to see what was going
on.
The UK had a bigger VW range to choose from than us. Apart from the torsion bar standard 1200 Beetle and strut 1300 Beetle, they also had the VW 412
range and the VW 'Caravan' - what they called the Kombi in those days. They also had the VW K70, and the new Passat range, and the Scirocco TS, with
the Golf just around the corner, the Type 3 having just been phased out. Most of the letters to Safer Motoring were complaining about VW's switch to
front-engine front-drive. It was a very tough decision at the time, but in hindsight there is no doubt VW made the right choice. Their air-cooled
sales were in permanent decline and they were hundreds of millions in the red. VW would have gone bankrupt if not for the Golf/Passat; by 1976 VW AG
was back in the black and today are the second-biggest car company in the world.
'PS' is the German word for horsepower, which stands for 'PferdeStarke'. It's DIN horsepower, which includes all the ancilliaries on the motor.
SAE horsepower, which was used in the US and Australia, is 'raw' horsepower without the ancilliaries. So SAE gives a higher figure. The famous '40
horse' 1200, for example, is 40-bhp SAE but only 34-hp (or 34 PS) DIN. Likewise the 1600 was 60 bhp SAE but 50-hp DIN. Nowadays the DIN values are
the standard in all metric countries and the figures are in kW - like the 155 kW Golf GTI. You multiply the DIN HP figure by 0.746 to convert to
kilowatts, or divide kW by 0.746 to get DIN HP. There's no conversion for SAE because it's a different measurement.
Yes the Clayton factory also assembled Mercedes trucks, but not MAN. Nowadays Volkswagen AG owns MAN (and Scania too).
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