| [ Total Views: 1654 | Total Replies: 27 | Thread Id: 95615 ] |
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 nitronugget
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| posted on March 1st, 2012 at 08:57 AM |
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Porsche Box or Subie Box
Hi All, More questions.... 
So i will be chucking a ej20t into my bay window sometime in the future and wondering what peoples opinions are on fitting the above 2 boxes.
Whcih one do you think would be the better choice?
I dont wanna spend 5-6k on a box and break it any time soon
cheers
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coletrickle
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| posted on March 1st, 2012 at 09:06 AM |
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I can get a hold of a 996 6 sp for a good price if you decide to go that way pm me
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toey1984
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| posted on March 1st, 2012 at 12:36 PM |
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My mate has a g50 5 speed with albins gears (99.7%sure) for $4-4500 ish?, ( he upgraded to a albins gearbox$$$$$) done very little off road use.
its 665mm long. ( near same size as 5 speed kombi box but much much taller.
he had a ej20 mounted on it some time ago
hit subi'gears up and see what he can do for you.
work out cost in convertiong both boxes into van and work out your $$$
By what i hear both boxes are strong but its all up to you in the end!
Good luck mate
Nathan
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Adsman
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| posted on March 1st, 2012 at 06:55 PM |
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Keep us posted on what you decide and how it turns out. There are a lot of people sitting on the fencing watching and wondering which way to go with
the turbo motors. It would be good to hear more feedback about the subibox with the reverse gears and a turbo motor up it.
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?
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Subarugears
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 06:49 AM |
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Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.
Subie box had a 3.9 final drive and the buggy had those massive 31" tyres on it, straining the hell out of the driveline.
Standard WRX gearset in the box, not even our top of the range Hybrid turbo gearset.
It's a $5450 gearbox with all new gearset & suncros inside it, with 12 months warranty.
Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.
http://youtu.be/A9BbYyZE18o
I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
It fits without cutting the torsion bar.
Here's a bay window fitted with an EJ25T STi. He's been driving it for nearly months now. This bus will be on the Subarugears stand at the VW nats
if you want to see it in person and talk to the owner to get an unbiased opinion.
http://youtu.be/oxmJxmG-65I
Remember, with a Subie motor and transmission your gearing is perfect, you use a standard flywheel, clutch and starter motor, your sump and exhausts
are not as low as with a vw/porsche box and you don't need to buy an adaptor plate. There's a bit of cost/saving in that stuff as well as better
exit angles for the back of the bus.
Right, that's enough self promotion for one day.....
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nitronugget
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 09:40 AM |
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lol thats a prety good sales pitch right there....
whats the diference between the box he has and your more expensive hybrid boxes?
I like the idea of the sump and exhaust being a bit higher cos my bus is lowered. How much extra clearance we looking at here?
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Subarugears
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 12:39 PM |
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The hybrid boxes contain the strongest gearset that Subaru makes for them. They are a touch wider than the standard (older) WRX ones, have had some
extra finishing tratment on them and also a combination of ratios that put the gearset under the least amount of strain possible.
It gives you a bit more security if you are going to pump the boost that bit more and go a little crazy.
The motor ends up about 55mm higher than when using a VW/Porsche transmission (and a touch more forward) so this translates to a similar amount for
the sump and exhaust. The guy with the STi in his bay has shortened his sump and exhaust somewhat (checkout his build pix) - I reckon it would be
worth a shot just using them as standard.
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 02:23 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Subarugears
Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.
Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.
http://youtu.be/A9BbYyZE18o
I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
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I just don't get drag racing at all. I only have 204hp@ the wheels, 8psi boost, car weighs 1020kg, I was babying it off the line (2.2sec 60ft) &
I did a 13.3@103mph.
I would have thought 300hp in a buggy & driving it like u stole it would have done low 12's?
Well done on the gearbox though.
Jak
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nitronugget
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 02:57 PM |
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sounds prety good to me...
I just have to save up some cash to do it all which is going to take a while now should be this year tho
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Subarugears
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 03:17 PM |
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I look forward to it. Look out for some SUPER deals at the VW nats at the end of May.
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JVLRacing
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 05:43 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Jak Rizzo
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Subarugears
Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.
Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.
http://youtu.be/A9BbYyZE18o
I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
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I just don't get drag racing at all. I only have 204hp@ the wheels, 8psi boost, car weighs 1020kg, I was babying it off the line (2.2sec 60ft) &
I did a 13.3@103mph.
I would have thought 300hp in a buggy & driving it like u stole it would have done low 12's?
Well done on the gearbox though.
Jak
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shit i agree with sir jako on this! buggy with less weight and 300hp low 12s or could of 11s
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 matberry
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 07:09 PM |
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What mph did the buggy run?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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Subarugears
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 07:42 PM |
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Dunno but don't forget the 31' tyres, 3.9 ring and pinion and wheelspin.
It was a bit of an exercise to see if we could throw everything at the box and prove it was up to it.
Would be a different story with normal size tyres or e/t streets even, and a 4.44 ring and pinion.
New onboard video of one of his runs with the gauges overlaid.
You can see the rpm, boost, throttle and feel the wheelspin.
I bet he had the worst 60 foot time ever.
I'll see if I can get a copy of the timeslip and incrementals - that will tell the story.
http://youtu.be/beDeWidrQiI
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Subarugears
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 08:12 PM |
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60 ft time 2 secs, 1/8th mile 8,5 secs and 100mph through the traps, only in 3rd gear.
Ratios and tyres sizes the big factor there....
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nitronugget
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 08:15 PM |
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Nice. But those things are light as right. Wouldn't the weight of a bus put alot more strain onto the box then a buggy?
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 helbus
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 08:27 PM |
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Bus would weigh less than a Subaru.
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TICK
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| posted on March 2nd, 2012 at 09:25 PM |
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Try one of those boxes in Aaron's 20b black bus
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Subarugears
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| posted on March 3rd, 2012 at 05:55 AM |
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I made Aaron the offer via PM over a year ago but no reply. I'm pretty sure he is happy with his current setup.
Nitronugget click on one of the video links I posted above and you will see a 2.5 turbo STi motor in a heavy bus as you were referring to.
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coletrickle
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| posted on March 3rd, 2012 at 08:14 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Subarugears
60 ft time 2 secs, 1/8th mile 8,5 secs and 100mph through the traps, only in 3rd gear.
Ratios and tyres sizes the big factor there....
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Dude don't want to start a fight but...What you are failing to understand is that for a given weight to acheive a certain speed
over the 1/4 mile your car must have ....horsepower.Maths dont lie.Just weigh the car and see what wallace racing has to say,just rember all dynos are
diffrent.Its just like a flow bench its a tool,And we don't race dynos or flow benches we race cars on the strip.
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Imac
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| posted on March 3rd, 2012 at 08:28 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Jak Rizzo
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Subarugears
Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.
Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.
http://youtu.be/A9BbYyZE18o
I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
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I just don't get drag racing at all. I only have 204hp@ the wheels, 8psi boost, car weighs 1020kg, I was babying it off the line (2.2sec 60ft) &
I did a 13.3@103mph.
I would have thought 300hp in a buggy & driving it like u stole it would have done low 12's?
Well done on the gearbox though.
Jak
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shit i agree with sir jako on this! buggy with less weight and 300hp low 12s or could of 11s
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After watching the video don't you think traction may be a major issue?
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coletrickle
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| posted on March 3rd, 2012 at 09:41 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Imac
| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Jak Rizzo
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Subarugears
Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.
Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.
http://youtu.be/A9BbYyZE18o
I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
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I just don't get drag racing at all. I only have 204hp@ the wheels, 8psi boost, car weighs 1020kg, I was babying it off the line (2.2sec 60ft) &
I did a 13.3@103mph.
I would have thought 300hp in a buggy & driving it like u stole it would have done low 12's?
Well done on the gearbox though.
Jak
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shit i agree with sir jako on this! buggy with less weight and 300hp low 12s or could of 11s
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After watching the video don't you think traction may be a major issue?
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No..Go to wallace racing calculators enter in et/mph and vehical weight and tell me what hp its got at the wheels...I was guessing
1500lbs(usa site).The numbers i came up with are for the et its got 113.41hp@wheels,126.02 @fw.for the mph 108.11@wheels,120.12@fw.On the other hand
if it weighs 3000lbs 13.3@100mph, its et its got 226.83@w and 252.03@fw.for its mph 216.22hp@w and 240.25hp@fw.
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nitronugget
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| posted on March 3rd, 2012 at 11:51 AM |
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mmmmmmm. 2.5 STI.... yes pleass.
whats a half cut of one of them worth eek.
Id go the 2.5 if it wasnt too much more then a ej20t cut
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11CAB
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| posted on March 3rd, 2012 at 12:53 PM |
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So how does Dave Butler do a 10.9 with 220hp, and Wayne Penrose does 10.4 with 445hp both in beetles?
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vlad01
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| posted on March 4th, 2012 at 08:25 AM |
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torque with correct gear ratio to suit I say.
HP has nothing to do with acceleration.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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pete wood
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| posted on March 4th, 2012 at 08:42 PM |
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Vlad; power is a function of torque relative to velocity and has everything to do with acceleration. Hence the term, "power to weight".
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vlad01
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| posted on March 4th, 2012 at 09:22 PM |
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yeah its just a derived figure, it wont help you calculate the acceleration characteristics of a given car unless you work backward to extrapolate
the torque figures in which then acceleration can be calculated.
Its simple physics, torque is rotational force, force is what accelerates an object. power is just how much potential energy something can output or
has not how much force it exerts, so thus you take two steps forward and one back to get the needed figure.
simply look at it this way, torque x angular velocity = hp right? yep ok you got that?
now when we apply the same "power" through a gearbox, the power is the same regardless of gear ratio as the rotation speed goes up, the torque goes
down as ratios change so power is the same. ok thats simple
So lets pick 1st gear. the thing about high ratio gearing is it multiples the torque at cost of rotations speed, yes power is then the same yet again.
eg. theoretical engine 100 hp/100flt-lb flywheel @ 4000rpm + 4:1 gears = 100hp/400ft-lb @ 1000rpm.
ok that makes sence!
So with more torque in 1st gear, that is why 1st give the most acceleration as cost of speed ( note speed and acceleration is not the same thing). hp
just gives a general idea of the engine characteristics but is otherwise useless without the dyno chart figures so you can see the torque curve would
be using the power figure.
perfect example of high power low acceleration is high hp but only a peak narrow band with f**k all torque anywhere, where you can have lower hp but
with broad (ideally flat) torque curve which in turn give a linear power curve (ideally) that is what gives you good acceleration.
its all down to the torque curve, its simple and I am surprised how many people are not ever aware of it.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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matberry
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| posted on March 5th, 2012 at 08:27 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 11CAB
So how does Dave Butler do a 10.9 with 220hp, and Wayne Penrose does 10.4 with 445hp both in beetles?
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hypo-vw
My type-4 engine was well down on power when I ran 139.70mph last week in my oval . I have air intake temp issues and only made 1 pass on full
throttle , the other 4 runs I had to lift before the line . At Warwick last year the oval had 443rwhp and the dyno session the day before WSID
produced 380rwhp . I stll ran the oval as I had installed a really fat tune and A/F's showed between 4.9 - 5.2
When I get this sorted I am confident that it will go fast !!
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
yeah its just a derived figure, it wont help you calculate the acceleration characteristics of a given car unless you work backward to extrapolate
the torque figures in which then acceleration can be calculated.
Its simple physics, torque is rotational force, force is what accelerates an object. power is just how much potential energy something can output or
has not how much force it exerts, so thus you take two steps forward and one back to get the needed figure.
simply look at it this way, torque x angular velocity = hp right? yep ok you got that?
now when we apply the same "power" through a gearbox, the power is the same regardless of gear ratio as the rotation speed goes up, the torque goes
down as ratios change so power is the same. ok thats simple
So lets pick 1st gear. the thing about high ratio gearing is it multiples the torque at cost of rotations speed, yes power is then the same yet again.
eg. theoretical engine 100 hp/100flt-lb flywheel @ 4000rpm + 4:1 gears = 100hp/400ft-lb @ 1000rpm.
ok that makes sence!
So with more torque in 1st gear, that is why 1st give the most acceleration as cost of speed ( note speed and acceleration is not the same thing). hp
just gives a general idea of the engine characteristics but is otherwise useless without the dyno chart figures so you can see the torque curve would
be using the power figure.
perfect example of high power low acceleration is high hp but only a peak narrow band with f**k all torque anywhere, where you can have lower hp but
with broad (ideally flat) torque curve which in turn give a linear power curve (ideally) that is what gives you good acceleration.
its all down to the torque curve, its simple and I am surprised how many people are not ever aware of it.
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Great explanation Vlad. 
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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JVLRacing
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| posted on March 7th, 2012 at 08:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by TICK
Try one of those boxes in Aaron's 20b black bus
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Agreeable!!
G50 if u can afford it no doubt
Subie boxes.... sounding there some results from subiegears
Not all boxes break... there was a stupid quote earlier sayin they all break Rubbish!! when people tell u drive ur car like a shoppin trolley u know
not to buy what he has....
A Good eg. Dave butler (hello dave) hes not goin to build a box
thats not goin to take the strain of hes hps from hes motor..he builds wat suits and works
G50 you are not goin wrong cause u know they run big hp figures...
End of the day, look at what hp figures your goin to run!
Also talk to Steve carter,(hello steve) hes setting up a G50 with subie power "smart"
goodluck
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