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Author: Subject:  radiator mounting subi conversion
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posted on November 29th, 2013 at 08:59 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by rocknrob
what we need to remember is that of you own an old VW you are weird...if you stick another engine in one you are really weird...which is me...i love inventing stuff that makes my kombi work just for me...

this setup i dont reccomend to anyone but it has worked superbly for five years with the heat of a turbo climbing bush tracks in first in a queensland summer..

invent..enjoy..be happy...

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=79781 


no weirdness its just other people suck. they are good at being sheep though




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posted on November 30th, 2013 at 07:16 AM



Bug is harder as the space is only small where the wheel sits. Type 3 has much more room.
Just Remember the holes for the radiator and how you create the low pressure mean you will cut more out the back than the front.
I could make it almost look invisible if you still run bumpers.

Matt




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posted on February 11th, 2014 at 11:51 PM



Hey Karman141,your project has just inspired me to new levels.This is the kind of positive work that gets new members to try new projects.I am a newbie and i am no mechanical guru,could you explain in details how you setup the dual radiators.I have read comments such as "in series",what does this mean?One intake of one radiator connects to the exit port of the other?please explain this..a few detailed pictures posted along as an explanation would be great.I would like to do the exact setup on my 1970 Kombi.I bought it with a toyota 2y engine(anyone have an idea on how good this engine is?) and the previous owner setup the radiator on the outside of the decklid at the back.(ugly)I want to switch to a setup like yours that is more discrete and any advise would be helpful.Thank you in advance.
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posted on February 12th, 2014 at 11:53 AM



Connected in series just means the coolant comes out of the engine, into the first radiator then across and through the second before going back into the waterpump.

The only other way to connect would be parallel flow which means splitting the coolant to each rad as it comes out of the engine then feeding in back into the water pump togehter out of each rad.
A method that no one would use as it makes no sense.
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posted on February 12th, 2014 at 03:40 PM



Hi Monkslayer,

As Joel states above re radiators connected in series - simplest and only way to go.

Bit busy with work at the present to do a long post but feel free to pm me - only happy to help.

Have a look at Sunnyjim's post

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=98668&page=6 

he's doing the same radiator setup in a lowlight as has Bucknasty (in USA) who has a very professional setup - he has a link to his build.

I guess a comment I'd like to make is this is not to get to hung up if the radiator fans come on during often driving. I guess we forget before electric fans, all cars had a belt driven fan that ran constantly when the engine was running - regardless of conditions.
Doing work for a Bus company recently I looked at the buses rear engine/rear radiator setup - very little natural flow through radiator when bus is moving - the fan runs constantly. According to the mechanic - the fan stops - the bus stops.

The setup in my camper works really well and took a little while to fine tune (JK Earz and number plate standoff etc) - having a good temp gauge and dash LED letting you know when the fans run is important.




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1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
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posted on April 1st, 2014 at 09:14 PM



ok guys, time for going outside the square. How about a Porsche 911 centre radiator.?

Its only 170mm high, low enough to mount under the belly of the kombi and still have ground clearance. Its only 608mm wide and a thick 44mm meaning its actual coolant capacity is deceptive. The outlets (41mm) are both at the top meaning hoses wont be at risk.

Just thinking out loud. Of course Joel, I came up with this radiator as an alternative to the Alfa 33 I use, to put the Porsche one above the engine in my trike.

When I think, it usually leads to being expensive...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RADIATOR-PORSCHE-911-996-911-996-97-05-CENTRE-RADI...




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posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 12:54 PM



wow! wtf at the price!

should that be only 100 bucks?




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posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 07:12 PM



the price??? oh yeh, forgot about that. A second hand one could be found at the wrckers I suppose.

You'd think with all the kombi's being converted a radiator builder would produce a 1200mm wide x 150mm high x 50mm thick radiator complete with four small thermo fans.

anyway sorry if I've hijacked the theme here




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posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 09:41 PM



I actually have the centre radiator as well and plan to use it on my Ghia project. Bought all 3 Porsche radiators for $300 on ebay. I doubt it can keep a Subie motor cool on its own - it's pretty small.



1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
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posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 10:10 PM



Karmann 141. according to measurements on the net and my link, the centre Porshe radiator is 610mmx170mmx44mm and 1 row.

This has got me interested. Because 44mm thickness is a lot more thicker tubes than many radiators.

My ea81 ran two versions of the Alfa33 radiator (Joel knows too well). The early one isnt available anymore in Oz (but can be sought from NZ and other places) and the later one has 80mm more height.

Alfa 33 large= 524mmx325mmx34mm I assume its 1 row. Roughly multiplying it all = 5790200

The Porsche centre radiator 610x170x44 = 4562800

Smaller Alfa 33 radiator 545x234x32 = 418560

So the Porsche one is larger in capacity than the smallest Alfa 33 radiator that cooled my EA81 quite well.




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SUBARU ea81, VW auto, Detour camper
My ex girlfriend said "its me or a trike". Her big mistake.
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posted on April 3rd, 2014 at 01:31 AM



Under $300 landed here in oz http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Porsche-911-Boxster-Center-Radiator-99-04-listed-F...



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posted on April 3rd, 2014 at 07:16 AM



my radiator is about that big, just sits behind the front apron.
you just have to copy the way that Subaru have there hoses all connected, a lot of people get them mixed up or think that they know a better way then Subaru, to make the water flow around :lol:the cooling system




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posted on April 3rd, 2014 at 12:31 PM



I have my own interest in this Porsche "centre" radiator and need your thoughts guys. To return my radiator to the rear of my trike is to palce it above the torque converter on a slight angle hindering the engine bay and opens it up for easy damage.

The Posrche one is so short in height that it could be mounted on the angine protection bar and not look too ugly.

It might also be suitable for the kombi being only 170mm high as an alternative for the flat radiator idea if owners thought it a better solution.

My very rough calculations have been done above. I'm wondering if these calculations would mean that the centre radiator would cool the Subaru engine sufficiently?? I assume it will but am seeking reasons why it wouldnt.

In addition 4 x 6" thermo fans would fit in the 610mm width. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-INCH-LOW-PROFILE-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-THERMO-FAN-/12...




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SUBARU ea81, VW auto, Detour camper
My ex girlfriend said "its me or a trike". Her big mistake.
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posted on April 3rd, 2014 at 08:55 PM



Tweety - if the small Alfa radiator worked then the centre Porsche radiator would definitely work - it certainly is a high quality item. I'll be using mine as a water-to-air intercooler radiator on the Ghia.

It could possibly work on a Kombi but in my opinion and experience, I don't think a belly mounted radiator is the best place for a rad on a kombi - to prone to damage.




1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
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2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on April 3rd, 2014 at 09:27 PM



edited- sorry mate had this reply open for some time. as you can see bleow the posrsche rad is much smaller but still big enough.

Found a radiator size formula.

http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/blog/what-size-car-radiator-for-my-car-a120.html 

Gotta convert mm cubed to inches cubed and cc also but came up with this

Porsche centre radiator is 4562800 mm sq based on core dimensions. 610x170x44mm. Subaru 1781 EA81 engine is 108 sq ".

Formula stipulates the following-

Start with 2 cubic inches of core for every cubic inch of engine. Increase or decrease that value by the following factors:

ADD

0.1 for a vertical flow radiator core
0.1 for an in-line engine
0.1 for a small trailer towing
0.1 for a 2 row radiator
0.1 for double evaporators
0.2 for outside temperatures of 105F (40.5C)
0.2 for a medium trailer towing
0.2 for a small engine fitted to a heavy car
0.2 for a radiator fan with diameter less than 90% of smallest dimension
0.3 for air conditioning
0.3 for no fan shroud
0.3 for an antique car with small engine compartment
0.4 for large trailer towing
0.6 for a diesel engine

SUBTRACT

0.1 for remote transmission cooler (not within radiator)
0.1 for standard in-line transmission
0.1 for a single row radiator
0.1 for a V6 / V8 engine
0.2 for a spacious pickup truck engine compartment
0.2 for outside temperatures less than 90F (32.2C)
0.2 for a full fan shroud
02 for a horizontal flow radiator core
0.3 for a large engine in a small car

In my trikes case-

Add- - 0.1 for small trailer towing, 0.2 for outside temp over 40 deg, 0.3 for no fan shroud, = 3.19
Subtract - 0.1 for single row radiator, 0.2 outside temp less than 32 degrees, 0.2 for horizontal flow radiator, = 0.5 = 2.69

2.0+0.6-0.5= 2.1

2.1x108= 226.8 area of radiator is 278 sq". Conclusion- radiator is 19% larger than required.

As a safeguard I can also add a small motorcycle radiator off the heater hoses if required.

Now for a Kombi. Lets say its for a 2 litre EJ engine. 2.0 litres = 122 sq"

We know the cubic inches of the Porsche radiator is 278sq ".

Lets say the outside temp stuff cancels itself out. Add - 0.2 for small engine in large car, 0.3 for no fan shroud, 0.4 for large trailer towing (this for it being a transporter load carrying vehicle etc) = 0.9 total added. Subtract- 0.1 for single row radiator, 0.2 for horizontal flow radiator... = 0.3

2.0 + 0.6 = 2.6.

2.6x 122 = 317. With the radiator being 278 sq" it is too small by 13%

What about a kombi with an eA81?

the 2.6 factor remains the same.

2.6x108 = 280. Radiator is 278. likely is ok for this engine.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXwh4z8d66o 
SUBARU ea81, VW auto, Detour camper
My ex girlfriend said "its me or a trike". Her big mistake.
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posted on April 18th, 2014 at 04:02 PM



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-Boxster-Center-Radiator-99-04-listed-FREE...



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posted on April 19th, 2014 at 12:19 PM



So finally did the rear radiator setup with the Toyota 4y engine.weird thing keeps happening, after every drive I find the water level has drastically reduced.in fact today after a 100km drive I found all the water/coolant had gone.the radiator was empty!

According to my temperature gauge the engine runs at approximately 100 degrees Celsius with Max of 110 degrees Celsius.

Karman141..any idea why this keeps happening?I have sealed all areas where it showed signs of leakage but the problem persists.
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posted on April 19th, 2014 at 12:49 PM



G'day monkeyslayer.

1 are you using expansion bottle ?
2 what temp gauge & sender are they matched ?
3 are you running right cap for radiator.
4 have let it idle up to running temp sitting & check for water dripping. If you blowing a full radiator out theres a definite problem in the system may need a pressure test.

On my 67 split running worked 180b motor I ran a radiator on the left side with a camira fan never had a problem with the set up. I had a scoop on front running into original heater tube down to the rear & copex tubing running around to the inlet side of radiator & right side tube blowing into engine bay to flow air.
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posted on April 19th, 2014 at 02:44 PM



Getting that hot and disappearing coolant I'd be suspect of your headgasket.
Would be worth getting a pressure test done.
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posted on April 19th, 2014 at 08:17 PM



I am using an expansion bottle.a rather large one for that matter:-(.the radiator cap is the right one.as far as leakages go I sealed all the visible ones.i am not sure if the temperature sensor and gauge are matched
I found the gauge in the car when I bought It and just replaced the sender with a Toyota one.

I do doubt its accuracy, I suspect it's about 10 degrees ahead(error).

The gasket seems OK.I don't see water and oil mixing in the engine.

I suspect a massive leak in the radiator or just an inefficient radiator overall.I found it in the car and just cleaned it out and sealed a few leakages here and there.
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posted on April 19th, 2014 at 11:51 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by Joel
Getting that hot and disappearing coolant I'd be suspect of your headgasket.
Would be worth getting a pressure test done.


yep, sounds like it. I had a ford escort that did that. cracked head I believe the next owner found. blown gasket into the combustion chamber will do that too.




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posted on April 20th, 2014 at 08:48 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by monkslayer
I suspect a massive leak in the radiator or just an inefficient radiator overall.I found it in the car and just cleaned it out and sealed a few leakages here and there.


If you had a radiator or cooling system leaking that bad you would know it.
Leaking hot coolant has a very distinctive smell and everywhere it leaks as it dries it leaves a white powdery kit of residue.

It's possible as Vlad says for a headgasket to just leak into one of the combustion chambers.
None gets in the oil that way and the coolant is just burned off as steam out the exhaust.
It does a good job of steam cleaning which ever cylinder its happening too.

To check your sender/gauge calibration pull the sender out of the car and run a ground from the sender to the car and put it in a boiling water see if it reads 100c.


If you are running a stock Toyota sender with an aftermarket gauge chances are the calibration will be off.
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posted on April 20th, 2014 at 10:15 AM



http://www.goss.com.au/products/13A 

is cheap and it works :blush:




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posted on April 20th, 2014 at 10:16 AM



steam cleaning the inside lol.

you mean totally stuffing the bores and eroding the valves into Swiss cheese?

thats what happen to my niece's ford with a slight leak in to 3 of the cylinders. its was nasty! consumption was like 1L every few weeks of coolant.




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posted on April 20th, 2014 at 10:00 PM



Thanks guys.I will replace the head gasket and see what happebs .will update!
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posted on April 21st, 2014 at 01:59 AM



Just discovered that one of my water pipes had cut and that was the culprit.I have replaced it and will observe it and hope this will solve the problem.
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posted on April 21st, 2014 at 08:25 PM



good stuff



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXwh4z8d66o 
SUBARU ea81, VW auto, Detour camper
My ex girlfriend said "its me or a trike". Her big mistake.
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smile.gif posted on June 21st, 2014 at 09:42 PM



Here we go - just found this on YouTube - twin radiator setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_DUftxay0U 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2jDwD0QBn0 




1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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