| [ Total Views: 2339 | Total Replies: 60 | Thread Id: 95941 ] |
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 SebastienPeek
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 09:25 PM |
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Engine Seize - All fixed and a little teaser!
Alrighty, a little update.
I was flying through getting the old 1600tp up and running with dual kadrons, VintageSpeed exhaust and brand new tinware.
I got ready to boot her up and bang, the LHS carb caught on fire. I grabbed the closest thing (which I regret so badly right now) which was a tray of
kitty litter to douse the fire. Rookie mistake, right?
As the air filters weren't on the carbs yet, the kitty litter went down the carb and into the manifold, therefore into the engine block itself. The
engine now seizes (won't go any further either way I turn the engine) on the third cylinder. Too much kitty litter I guess.
What is the process to fix this?
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 09:42 PM |
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Pull the spark plug out and take the carby off and put a hose on a vacuum and try and suck the crap out.
p.s. your insurance was for fire and theft...........this is a fire  !!!
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 09:50 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by SebastienPeek
Alrighty, a little update.
I was flying through getting the old 1600tp up and running with dual kadrons, VintageSpeed exhaust and brand new tinware.
I got ready to boot her up and bang, the LHS carb caught on fire. I grabbed the closest thing (which I regret so badly right now) which was a tray of
kitty litter to douse the fire. Rookie mistake, right?
As the air filters weren't on the carbs yet, the kitty litter went down the carb and into the manifold, therefore into the engine block itself. The
engine now seizes (won't go any further either way I turn the engine) on the third cylinder. Too much kitty litter I guess.
What is the process to fix this?
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the only real way is to take the head off and clean out the cylinders..
You could try the thru the spark plug hole but I doubt You will get it all out..
Many years ago My Son had the same problem.. luckily I had a fire extinguisher handy..
No Cats here...lol
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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 matberry
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 09:51 PM |
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Ouch...really need to take off the head on that side to get the kitty litter out.....doh!
If the vac doesn't work
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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waltermitty
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 09:54 PM |
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If there is any cat shit in there,
Perhaps you need a caty litter convertor?
M
23 windows ...8 too many!
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 10:22 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by waltermitty
If there is any cat shit in there,
Perhaps you need a caty litter convertor?
M
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 10:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Pull the spark plug out and take the carby off and put a hose on a vacuum and try and suck the crap out.
p.s. your insurance was for fire and theft...........this is a fire !!!
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Spark plug is out, and tried getting the vacuum cleaner down there, but didn't think of attaching a hose. Now to find a hose wide enough to fit on
the vacuum cleaner.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Ouch...really need to take off the hed on that side to get the kitty litter out.....doh!
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Yeah, I figured the head would have to come off, was hoping it wasn't going to be the case...
Will try the vacuum hose trick and if that doesn't work, then will drop the engine and try that. Guess she won't be running for a while still.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by waltermitty
If there is any cat shit in there,
Perhaps you need a caty litter convertor?
M
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Aha nah, there was no cat shit in there, thankfully.
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 10:43 PM |
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Oh and Craig, there is no proof of fire which sucks, but lucky for me which is great!
I just need to figure out whether or not I strip the engine down completely and remove the head that has the shit in it.
My question is, what if it has gone down into the block itself? That's a split the case job which is something I'm not willing to do.
Probably be better off getting a new engine if that's the case, right?
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 10:48 PM |
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What do people recommend to make it easy to get the engine in and out?
I need to make this as painless as possible and do it as thoroughly and professionally as possible.
I also need peoples help as soon as possible because I'm running out of options and it is either get her up and running with this engine or just send
her to scrap and sell the ancillaries.
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ragged
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 11:05 PM |
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Seb,
Give me a call tomorrow and I will come over and help you sort this out. Don't go pulling your engine out just yet!
You could say 'there is more than one way to skin a cat', but enough with the puns.
Cheers Dave
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on March 20th, 2012 at 11:38 PM |
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Dave,
Will give you a call tomorrow!
Hopefully this means we can get her back under her own power.
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68AutoBug
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 posted on March 21st, 2012 at 12:20 AM |
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That is great news Seb..
You can take the fan housing off and tinware with the engine still in the car
I just did it a few weeks ago...
You do need to take the engine lid and hinges off though...
I did see a fellow in the USA take both heads off with the engine in the car... I think He had to cut or drill a few holes.??
If You get a hose that will fit inside the spark plug hole , You tape this hose into the vacuum cleaner hose...
like wide duct tape or gaffer tape or even masking tape,,
I don't suppose kitty liitter would do any harm...??
not sure what its made from... maybe squirt some oil into the spark plug hole once You've got it out with the vacuum..
not a lot of room inside the cylinder...
so no wonder it stopped... lol
a flooding carby will stop an engine from turning over too..
I've had that one.... lol so it doesn't take much to stop them
I don't think the kitty litter would have gotten into the sump etc...
just the cylinder...
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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waltermitty
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 07:34 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by SebastienPeek
Hopefully this means we can get her back under her own power.
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Im sure youll have her purring like a kitten in no time!
M
(Sorry I cant help it. I do hope you get a happy ending though. M)
23 windows ...8 too many!
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 08:04 AM |
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Ahaha it is all good, hope I can get her purring like a kitten too!
What an idiot though, still beating myself up over using kitty litter.
Should have just smothered it with towels or something.
At least I'll be buying a fire extinguisher tonight.
Geeze!
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bajachris88
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 08:16 AM |
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be careful. some of the stuff in fire extinguishers can be nasty too! (for cars)
sometimes a big blow on the top of the carb puts it out, otherwise starve it of air by putting a plate over the carb etc etc.
Only the finest of particulates from the kitty litter could pass through the piston rings into the block so don't stress. If you can vacuum the most
of it out, then as soon as it fires up it will launch the remainder out the exhaust 
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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vlad01
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 10:28 AM |
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this could have and probably has done serious damage. check the crank and rods aren't bent plus other components.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Joel
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 10:53 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
I did see a fellow in the USA take both heads off with the engine in the car... I think He had to cut or drill a few holes.??
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I really wonder at times where some peoples heads are at.
It would take 30 mins tops for the average Joe to drop a bug engine out.
The rooting around it would take to remove all the tinware, the headstuds would need unscrewing from the block so the heads can be removed in the car
is several hours work and lots of skinned knuckles due to tight confines 
Used to take me 20 mins to get my 1776 out before my removable valance and that included removing both the carbs, the header and the remote oil
filter.
A stock engine just falls out on its own with a few bolts.
Seb no need to go splitting the case and doing full tear downs, none of it would have made it into the bottom end.
You won't have bent anything turning it by hand, but it would be wise to drop the heads off even if you think you've got all the crap out of it.
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 helbus
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 03:12 PM |
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It would be the same sort of job as a top end reseal.
Engine out
Heads off
New gaskets and pushrod tube seals
Reassemble
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shokwave2
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 04:03 PM |
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Any idea how the carb caught fire? Was there a wire touching the carb or soemthing to spark it?
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Smiley
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 04:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
a flooding carby will stop an engine from turning over too..
I've had that one.... lol so it doesn't take much to stop them
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I have no idea how this works?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
this could have and probably has done serious damage. check the crank and rods aren't bent plus other components.
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Turning it over by hand won't have caused any damage. Unless you tried putting some serious pressure and ramming it back and forward.
It's certainly won't have bent the crank or rods.
Smiley 
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jamiesc
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 07:18 PM |
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you just cant catch a break Sebastian hope you get it all sorted out mate and back on the road soon
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bugmaniaar
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 08:34 PM |
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Goes past really fast
MEEEOOWWWWWW
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helbus
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 10:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Smiley
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
a flooding carby will stop an engine from turning over too..
I've had that one.... lol so it doesn't take much to stop them
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I have no idea how this works?
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I parked our beetle on a really really steep driveway nose upwards one night, and when we went to leave the carby float needle and seat had allowed
the petrol tank to let fuel to fill the combustion chambers that were open. So the motor would not start, as it was hydro locked, and the oil sump had
massive litres of fuel. I drained the oil/ fuel mix which was over 5 litres, refilled the oil being 2.5 litresl, and it started. So fuel will get past
the rings very quietly while you are drinking.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 10:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by shokwave2
Any idea how the carb caught fire? Was there a wire touching the carb or soemthing to spark it?
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I think too much fuel and a back fire...
easily done with a beetle engine...
only needs a bit of an inlet manifold leak..
wet towel fixes it fast [if You happen to have one closeby]
Yes Pete,
My needle and seat leaked one day because I was working on the wiring and had left the electric fuel pump left on..
I think thats when I made the decision to get a fuel pressure regulator.. lol
doesn't take long to fill up a cylinder and then continue to seep into the sump...
Diluted Oil isn't good... New oil is a MUST..
kitty litter cannot get past the rings..
Joel,
Fellow in the USA.. ???
with a semi auto beetle there are pipes and hoses with ATF and I don't like to reuse any liquids in a car...
so, it gets costly, 5 litres of ATF each time.. if done many times in a week or two.. lol plus replaceing the torque converter oil seal .. if its
been disturbed.. or gone hard..
also messy...
Seb
check to see that the sump oil doesn;t smaell like petrol.. .Maybe petrol has seeped into the sump after filling up the piston gap up with
petrol...
as Joel suggests head off and o good check for any damage which I don't think will be there...
clean out the cylinder and away You will go...
then get the wet towels ready, and try to stsrt the engine again.....
best of luck
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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helbus
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| posted on March 21st, 2012 at 11:10 PM |
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Beetles are very prone to smelling like petrol, oil and exhaust fumes. My kids do smell after being in the beetle for a few minutes
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on March 22nd, 2012 at 05:02 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Beetles are very prone to smelling like petrol, oil and exhaust fumes. My kids do smell after being in the beetle for a few minutes
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that drives Me crazy Pete..
I hope I don't smell like petrol??
but I have noticed I can smell petrol when I park My car..
am trying to stop the smell...
new fuel hoses and clamps... seems to be better..
just got to do under the tank..
and I need to check inside the tunnel for a fuel leak...
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Joel
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| posted on March 22nd, 2012 at 06:46 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Beetles are very prone to smelling like petrol, oil and exhaust fumes. My kids do smell after being in the beetle for a few minutes
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They don't have to be though.
People just accept that as being normal in an old car.
Fuel smells are usually just wrongly routed breather hoses or 40 years worth of rubber perishing.
Mine when I first got it reaked of fuel when I turned hard left.
A new filler neck hose and couple of vent hoses later I could breathe again.
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on March 22nd, 2012 at 07:55 AM |
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Engine starts again.
Adjusted idle speed of carbs, seems to run smoother and won't die while idling now.
Have to do a couple more things (valve sets and new spark plugs) and then I'll reverse her out of the driveway and take her for her maiden voyage.
Then off to a carb specialist to get them tuned to perfection. As much as I want to learn the ins and outs of carb tuning, I'd much prefer to have it
done by a professional then myself
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bajachris88
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| posted on March 22nd, 2012 at 08:28 AM |
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So how did you get the kitty litter out :P?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on March 22nd, 2012 at 08:32 AM |
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Air compressor and some love, and it came out. Slowly moving the cranskshaft around and around we got it out!
Such a good feeling to know she isn't seized like a mofo.
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