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 Craig S
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 05:13 PM |
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CSP Python vs Vintage Speed
Hi All,
I'm in the process of deciding what exhaust system to use on the 1916 going in the back of the Beetle. I'm not bothered about heater boxes.
Basically I'm of the mind to do it once and do it properly, so that brings it down to two systems:
* CSP Python
* Vintage Speed
I know that via DAS Resto Parts the CSP system will cost about $1,500 including J Pipes, and I need to call VVDS for a price on the Vintage Speed, so
that might help me make my decision, but I was wondering what people's experiences were.
I've seen quite a bit on here recently about the Vintage Speed kit, and everyone seems to think they're great, but I'm wondering if anyone has
feedback on the Python?
Volksworld did a comparison late last year on exhausts, and the page relating to them is below:
The test was done on a 2332cc engine with 48mm Dell'Ortos and 1:4 ratio rockers that had previously dynoed 150hp.
Their summary was:
"Vintage Speed: It is impossible to fault the quality of this system, but it is very expensive and was only able to match the power of the more
budget offerings. But if you want a stock look for a big motor, this is a good option.
In the end, though, the numbers don't lie - CSP Python made more power than all the other exhausts, boasts excellent build quality and has a price
between the top and bottom ends of the market"
If I really want, the CSP will also let me use heaters.
So what do people think??
Thanks
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita
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BiX
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 05:20 PM |
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I can't comment, as I don't have either. I think I would go the CSP for myself if I had the money.
But how much woulc it cost to get a custom made set done? I know CES in springwood do a few VW exhausts up here. WOuld you be able to get them to copy
the CSP and get it done cheaper and have it custom made to your setup? $1500 is allot of money....
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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 vw54
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 05:30 PM |
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I have just fitted a Vintage Speed single outlet to my car its great and the sound is the best i had for years
I fitted bigger V / S J pipes into Stock Heater boxes as well and then had flanges welded to the J Pipes
the V / S mufflers and pipes are well made can not fault
The CSP is extreamly well made BUT VERY expensive thats the only problem
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tar76
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 06:02 PM |
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I've got a VS on my Kombi and also getting one on the bug. My kombi is only a 1800 stock so i didn't notice really any difference except it sounded
better. As for the bug i'll let you no in a few weeks, but i'm not running a real big motor in the 62 so maybe it will just improve sound and look.
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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vwo60
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 07:30 PM |
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Will your engine justify either of them, i took of a gene berg 1 3/4" merged header of a 2110 with 48DRLA's and replaced it with a 1 5/8" side
winder from wolfsburg automotive, immediate improvement in driverability and picked up a lot of bottom end without a lose at the top end, you can buy
three of these for one CSP, i even think that they are better built, i seen the welding on the CSP and it was very average. i also have a vintage
speed on my convertable.
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lohoon
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 08:21 PM |
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csp
I have a csp and the welds are perfect. Actually the whole thing is quality. Heater boxes are trick too
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 Bizarre
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 08:44 PM |
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I like the idea of heater boxes.
Can you get VS with boxes rather than making them?
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Craig S
A.k.a.: Craig
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 08:56 PM |
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So even without having called VVDS I can guess that the VS is cheaper than the Python judging by what David is saying!
I'm just looking at their 2012 catalogue (which I think came in a box from VVDS with other goodies) and there does seem to be a system available to
attach to the heaters, but it doesn't seem to be a full merged system (but I could be wrong).
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita
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tar76
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 09:30 PM |
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Is your beetle lowered? Sometimes this can play a part as some systems don't have good ground clearence and if your slaming may want to keep that in
mind.
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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Craig S
A.k.a.: Craig
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| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 09:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by tar76
Is your beetle lowered? Sometimes this can play a part as some systems don't have good ground clearence and if your slaming may want to keep that in
mind.
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Yes, my Beetle is lowered but not slammed, so I believe either system will be fine. The Pobjoy deep sump is at much greater risk than the exhaust.
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 06:27 AM |
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Vintage speed to have an exhaust that connects to heater boxes thats what I intend installing on mine
VW Heater Style Exhaust Systems For BUG BUS single and twin tips
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Governor
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 06:57 AM |
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Got my first VintageSpeed exhaust over 2 years ago, I wouldn't use anything else now.
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vw54
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:44 AM |
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| Quote: |
I like the idea of heater boxes.
Can you get VS with boxes rather than making them?
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No, VVDS had to get the J Pipes especially made by V / S to fit to my car so they got a few extra sets
You have to get a set of late model heater boxes with out the alloy heat sink around the origional tube
Then unseam them with heat and remove the old pipe and fit the new bigger dia V / S J Pipe and panel beat the seams closed bit of stuffing
around but worth it
I have a single outlet muffler as well as i dont have the origional cut outs in the rear beaver
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vw54
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:46 AM |
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new flange
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vw54
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:47 AM |
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new heater box big J Pipe
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vw54
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:48 AM |
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rear beaver
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vw54
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:51 AM |
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rear view
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vw54
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:58 AM |
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Craig
I think you will have to sit down when you find out the price of the CSP system
yes there really nice and even if you bring it in yourself the taxes n shipping will be over the top
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matberry
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 08:07 AM |
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The comparisons above are only part of the story, and actually not giving a fair comparison. The Vintage Speed recommeds their 48mm system for
outright performance on 2.3 and larger engines. That test above is using a 42mm system. We found on Col's 2332 with the 44mm system that on the 1/4
mile we picked up around 5-6mph with the same engine/chassis combo and only the exhaust changed from a 1 5/8 fully merged with Fat Boy muffler to a VS
full merge competition system as pictured in the pommy article. But in my mind this isn't the biggest improvement, the big winner is fit, reliability
and ground clearance. The stock style design is so far superior in the way it supports the weight of the system, there is much less stress both on the
heads and on the individual pipes than you get on the regular 4-1 design. Also the ground clearance improvement is a huge bonus, this also takes the
stress out of the connections and tubes as each time a conventional 4-1 is dragged on the ground, the heads and pipe connections get stressed which
promotes failure and /or leaks. Also the VS needs no removal for servicing, with mechanic's hourly rates where they are these days, saving 1/2 -1
hour each service saves $$$, if the exhaust lasts for 10 years......that's a big saving, if it lasts indefinately you tell me how much you
save......
To run heaters the cheaper and lower performance systems are used, but all of the above benifits are still realised.
The retail price for the full competition VS system is $1290 +gst including freight to anywhere in Australia (depending on where you buy it  )
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 10:37 AM |
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Hi Matt, with the VS Comp system can you adjust for a narrow (high comp 1915) motor ? I'm currently building a street motor but the width will be
narrower than a stock 1600.
They are certainly a great (simple) looking option for perfomance and ground clearance.
Any pics of it on Cols car from underneath ?
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66deluxe
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 11:43 AM |
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I like my VS Type 4 system in my bug. It does seem loud but not as loud as the harley that goes up my street everyday.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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matberry
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 12:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Hi Matt, with the VS Comp system can you adjust for a narrow (high comp 1915) motor ? I'm currently building a street motor but the width will be
narrower than a stock 1600.
They are certainly a great (simple) looking option for perfomance and ground clearance.
Any pics of it on Cols car from underneath ?
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The system allows for different widths by installing extra gaskets at the entry flanges into the muffler. Really depends on how much narrower, but the
company is always open to custom requirements if need be. We have had a few custom orders at no extra charge. Damo's type 4 into type 1 wasn't even
available at the time we supplied it.
This pic shows the small notch required to clear the lower tins.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Bizarre
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 12:53 PM |
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OK - this maybe a dumb question....... but here goes.
I have had mufflers blow out before. I have seen stainless systems get holes and die in under 5 years.
Certainly stock exhausts and also Phat boy style.
I have a custom that is very similar to the CSP set up.
Any muffler problems and you just cut the old one off and weld a new one one... easy.
The header is there for life.
Like a stock system - if you get a hole in the VS system, you are vitrually up for a whole new system
Futue te ipsum!!!
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vw54
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 01:33 PM |
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""" Like a stock system - if you get a hole in the VS system, you are vitrually up for a whole new system"""
put a patch on it with tig welding carnt see a problem
there does not appear to be any design problems like a stock exhaust where moisture and dirt get trapped cause things to rust
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 03:43 PM |
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What's inside the side part of the system, is it a resonator or is it an expansion chamber ?
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matberry
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 04:01 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
What's inside the side part of the system, is it a resonator or is it an expansion chamber ?
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No baffling, just an expansion chamber, the 48mm system is a little different in that area. This version has a baffle arrangement
with the side entry inside the muffler so they are actually a little quieter than the cheaper version
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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tar76
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 05:12 PM |
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Also has the benefit of the side bung (VS), which correct me if i'm wrong is used for tuning purposes??
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 06:49 PM |
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yes - you can put a sensor in there
Futue te ipsum!!!
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tar76
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:10 PM |
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Anyone got a pic of a CSP system bolted on a bug, just want to see how it sits compared to the VS
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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vw54
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| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:43 PM |
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as per here
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