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 JVLRacing
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 02:00 PM |
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FUELS and Mixing Results
Conflicting stories, Surveys best fuels and Mixing blended Fuels with Results....
Ur 98 octanes...whos doin the best of them?
E10... Hw good is it? can it be blended with with other fuels?
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ian.mezz
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 02:03 PM |
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i think 95 is the way to go.
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Joel
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 02:25 PM |
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I noticed a big difference going from Shell V-power 98 to Caltex Vortex 98.
A got a bit of knock with the V-power and crappier mileage, Watered down cats piss 
Dunno if I can pull up knock values with my dinosaur OBD1 management but would have been interesting too see as there was certainly a big differnce
there.
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 02:32 PM |
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I am hearing the 98 caltex is the newer breed octane by surveys...??
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waveman1500
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 03:37 PM |
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If your engine is picky about what brand of 98 it takes, then perhaps it's not really a street engine! Just a thought, might want to back off the
tune a bit. All pump fuels are subject to huge variations without notice from batch to batch, especially the ethanol varieties. Regular petrol is
allowed to contain up to about 10% ethanol without declaring it on the label, which makes it essentially exactly the same as E10. E85 is allowed to
contain any percentage of ethanol from 70% to 85%, so the combustion properties will vary. If you want true E85 without variation, you have to buy it
in drums from speed shops.
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tar76
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 03:43 PM |
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I just stick to 98. I don't have a BP near so i just get it from 7 elevn, havn't had a problem yet (touch wood). I have tried ethanol only on my
ride/mowers and they play up like and run up to shit so not game to put it in my dubs.
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vlad01
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 05:24 PM |
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I noticed variation between servos and a general difference between the chains.
Order I foud for the chains from best to worst in performance and economical terms.
United
Shell
BP
all the others
*
*
*
Caltex
then I find United is a rare one around in my states but consistently good.
BP at keilor park drive to be good, BP in carlsrue to be below average. Calderpark to be a real hit and miss.
Got serious fuel contamication from there.
Shell has been consistent for me problaby cos they are around any areas where I go so I rarely get to use them but got good resualts from them.
Caltex always shit regardless from where I got it, I stay away from them now.
I found 95 to be the best performance and economy, 98 my car slows down and uses more fuel, 91 is terible for economy but runs the same as 95
interestingly.
PS my spell check doesn't work on AVD forums for some weird reason???
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vassy66T1
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 06:08 PM |
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Your car runs slower on 98? Are you sure it isn't just smoother?
It would be unusual for higher octane to not run better in both performance and lower engine temp.
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vlad01
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 06:42 PM |
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yes of course it runs slower and guzzles more, its CR isn't high enough to utilize it, simple. Its only 8.5:1 way too low for 98. Laws of thermal
dynamics 
why did you mention temp?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 06:56 PM |
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does any one here of mixin e10 with a 98 make any difference..?
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 06:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
I noticed variation between servos and a general difference between the chains.
Order I foud for the chains from best to worst in performance and economical terms.
United
Shell
BP
all the others
*
*
*
Caltex
then I find United is a rare one around in my states but consistently good.
BP at keilor park drive to be good, BP in carlsrue to be below average. Calderpark to be a real hit and miss.
Got serious fuel contamication from there.
Shell has been consistent for me problaby cos they are around any areas where I go so I rarely get to use them but got good resualts from them.
Caltex always shit regardless from where I got it, I stay away from them now.
I found 95 to be the best performance and economy, 98 my car slows down and uses more fuel, 91 is terible for economy but runs the same as 95
interestingly.
PS my spell check doesn't work on AVD forums for some weird reason???
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Caltex the lowest really! i heard there 98octane rates the highest
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 barls
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 07:07 PM |
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shell vforce is now just the 91 with more ethanol in it to make up the octane. its what killed my last two fuel regs.
not happy. i believe they are being investigated for not labelling it as such. as a result im using only bp 95 in the bug atm till i hear otherwise.
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vlad01
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 08:00 PM |
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yeah i don't use 98 so i don't kown, but i have a friend who's car suits 98. he recons united and bp, shell works ok for him and he gets slightly
better milage than bp but shell is hard to find here.
we both experiance poor resaults from caltex, so does our mechanic who get people coming in with problems running, starting and crap enonomy.
Investigation by the mechanic have shown a lot of its been bad fuel from caltex within the local areas of central vic and melbourne. Its just to wide
spread here for it to be just one isolated caltex staion.
71 notchback,
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colin
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 08:10 PM |
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My local dyno shop guy told me to dyno tune the car on a brand of fuel(i choose BP 98) then always run that same fuel.
He reckons the viscosity between the brands changes
I took his word for it and now dyno and race with BP Ultimate 98.
Cheers Col
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tar76
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 08:28 PM |
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I use to av gas form my old work (had the contract to dispose of it from RAAF) and man didn't they love that. Pipes use to be grey like back in the
day when we could get leaded.
"Obey your Dreams"!
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 08:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
My local dyno shop guy told me to dyno tune the car on a brand of fuel(i choose BP 98) then always run that same fuel.
He reckons the viscosity between the brands changes
I took his word for it and now dyno and race with BP Ultimate 98.
Cheers Col
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Col did u do any testin with other fuels at all?
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20bkombi
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 09:58 PM |
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I use 98 from caltex, never had a problem even when changing brands, just tune it safe, like factory ecu's.
I also have tuned the kombi on caltex e85, great fuel just treat it like alcohol, ( don't let it sit to long). I test the ethanol content from the
e85 on the gold coast it's constantly 76%. I just tested the e85 from Warwick independent station and was 94%, I checked 3 times, all the same.
I try to stay away from e10 as my old T4 use to ping every time I used it, worse than 91.
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Gracey
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 10:13 PM |
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I use Shell V Power 98 and BP Ultimate 98 in both my turbo Subaru's and I get consistent performance and fuel economy from both, in fact economy is
virtually identical with both, this tells me both fuels are very similar.
I recently tried United 100 and both cars loved it however economy suffered quite a bit, about 10% less.
In the past I've never had great results with Caltex 98 however that was sometime ago and they may have picked up their game.
As Vlad01 mentioned a car will run best with the least amount of octane required while still avoiding knock. In saying that most 98 fuel has a better
additive package to help keep internals clean, this is a selling point for me.
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 10:16 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 20bkombi
I use 98 from caltex, never had a problem even when changing brands, just tune it safe, like factory ecu's.
I also have tuned the kombi on caltex e85, great fuel just treat it like alcohol, ( don't let it sit to long). I test the ethanol content from the
e85 on the gold coast it's constantly 76%. I just tested the e85 from Warwick independent station and was 94%, I checked 3 times, all the same.
I try to stay away from e10 as my old T4 use to ping every time I used it, worse than 91.
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hi Aaron
have u done any blendin of fuels...eg. e10 with a 98 ?
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20bkombi
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 10:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 20bkombi
I use 98 from caltex, never had a problem even when changing brands, just tune it safe, like factory ecu's.
I also have tuned the kombi on caltex e85, great fuel just treat it like alcohol, ( don't let it sit to long). I test the ethanol content from the
e85 on the gold coast it's constantly 76%. I just tested the e85 from Warwick independent station and was 94%, I checked 3 times, all the same.
I try to stay away from e10 as my old T4 use to ping every time I used it, worse than 91.
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hi Aaron
have u done any blendin of fuels...eg. e10 with a 98 ?
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No testing with e10/98 in the 20b Kombi (my tune), I think 98 straight is better, just going of my old 2L T4 didn't like E10 stock ecu.
But I suppose if you add maybe 50/50 E10/98 and tune it adding more fuel/timming it should make more power. Just need to get the ratio right every
time.
I love E85 even at only 76%, massive difference. And consistent at the pump.
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 11:08 PM |
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my thought excactly...a 50/50 blend thanku aaron!
this was the confirmation i needed as it was suggested to me...
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20bkombi
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| posted on July 21st, 2012 at 11:16 PM |
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Let us know if you how it goes if you change your tune to suit.
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colin
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| posted on July 22nd, 2012 at 10:23 AM |
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With a road car that is not high compression the best fuel to use is the lowest you can run without the engine pinging.
This is because the higher the octane the slower the burn in the combustion chamber.
Fast burn equals good combustion and more power. However most high comp VW engines need slower burn to stop potential pinging.
It,s a trade off with compression versus combustion burn efficiency.
I would love some day to try and tune my car with e85. A local car club member circuit races a Falcon and told me he picked up over 15% hp on the dyno
changing over from unleaded to e85. Worth a good sus out.
Cheers Col
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| posted on July 22nd, 2012 at 11:09 AM |
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Yeah Col - a few of the hillclimb cars here switching over to E85 too, but generally having to change all lines, pumps, regs and filters.... basically
anything with a rubber seal in it. (needs to be Viton I think with E85 ?)
All have been talking at least 10% power increase on the dyno, but are using about 20% more fuel than they did on 98 etc.
Most interesting is some have had big head temp drops... like a consistent 20deg cooler.
Strangely the extra power hasn't seen a lot of records being broken tho...
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| posted on July 22nd, 2012 at 11:33 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
He reckons the viscosity between the brands changes
Cheers Col
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Viscosity, I know about viscosity when talking about oil, but fuel? please enlighten me.
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 22nd, 2012 at 02:56 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
With a road car that is not high compression the best fuel to use is the lowest you can run without the engine pinging.
This is because the higher the octane the slower the burn in the combustion chamber.
Fast burn equals good combustion and more power. However most high comp VW engines need slower burn to stop potential pinging.
It,s a trade off with compression versus combustion burn efficiency.
I would love some day to try and tune my car with e85. A local car club member circuit races a Falcon and told me he picked up over 15% hp on the dyno
changing over from unleaded to e85. Worth a good sus out.
Cheers Col
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Col spot on....just done a 50/50 e10 with 98 NO Good! tried added timing NO Good.....well back to straight 98
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colin
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| posted on July 22nd, 2012 at 03:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by donn
| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
He reckons the viscosity between the brands changes
Cheers Col
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Viscosity, I know about viscosity when talking about oil, but fuel? please enlighten me.
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Beleive me i,m now engineer, but i listen to my dyno guy.
He,s been on the job for over forty years. I guess it would have something to do with flow,and flow rates through the jets. Remember road cars a set
on a soft easy tune. They will be forgiving with varables such as fuel and octane.
However a high strung race engine on a hard tune has a small window of operation. Small variables such as fuel will make a difference. When i race at
Bathurst i must go down one size in main jet or the engine runs rich. Over at the coast on a hot humid day same thing. Warwick is a given down one
main size because of humidity and lack of oxygen in the air.
Really like this thread very interesting.
Cheers Col
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colin
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| posted on July 22nd, 2012 at 03:11 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
With a road car that is not high compression the best fuel to use is the lowest you can run without the engine pinging.
This is because the higher the octane the slower the burn in the combustion chamber.
Fast burn equals good combustion and more power. However most high comp VW engines need slower burn to stop potential pinging.
It,s a trade off with compression versus combustion burn efficiency.
I would love some day to try and tune my car with e85. A local car club member circuit races a Falcon and told me he picked up over 15% hp on the dyno
changing over from unleaded to e85. Worth a good sus out.
Cheers Col
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Col spot on....just done a 50/50 e10 with 98 NO Good! tried added timing NO Good.....well back to straight 98
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Did you increase your fuel delivery by roughly 30%?
Cheers Col
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vassy66T1
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| posted on July 23rd, 2012 at 08:33 AM |
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This has been interesting reading.
There was some good info in this article I came across also. You learn something new some days 
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0901phr_difference_between_pump_race_ga...
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JVLRacing
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| posted on July 23rd, 2012 at 03:22 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
With a road car that is not high compression the best fuel to use is the lowest you can run without the engine pinging.
This is because the higher the octane the slower the burn in the combustion chamber.
Fast burn equals good combustion and more power. However most high comp VW engines need slower burn to stop potential pinging.
It,s a trade off with compression versus combustion burn efficiency.
I would love some day to try and tune my car with e85. A local car club member circuit races a Falcon and told me he picked up over 15% hp on the dyno
changing over from unleaded to e85. Worth a good sus out.
Cheers Col
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Col spot on....just done a 50/50 e10 with 98 NO Good! tried added timing NO Good.....well back to straight 98
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Did you increase your fuel delivery by roughly 30%?
Cheers Col
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....
k sorry havn got back earlier...i had a plug lead blow oops, let me revise this..soon
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