| [ Total Views: 2404 | Total Replies: 34 | Thread Id: 98525 ] |
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 TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 01:55 PM |
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Can I build the bug I want
Hi guys
I'm looking at getting a bug again as I had them as my first road cars, as well as beach buggies from 13 years old. i then got into motorcycles and
other things, but always had the want to get one again.
So, here's what I would like to do. Is it an easy bolt up and by adapter job, or does it become a major undertaking.
I really like the look of the earlier bugs. Infact, I'd most likely prefer an oval just to have the real early look.
The problem is, I also want some mod cons to make the driving a pleasure.
So, is it possiblt to put a balljoint, disk brake front end straight into an early floor. Is it just unbolt one and bolt the other in? I'd like to
have an adjustable height front end with dropped spindles and disc brakes. I doubt I'd want to narrow the front ens, as I'd most likely widen the
guards witha strip between the bolt flange and rest of the guard, and just move the guard out.
In the rear, I'd do the Auto conversion, as i want to be able to just drive it around easily, and being nearly 50, I don't want to change gears.
I'm basically lazy in that department. That part doesn't seem too hard as I did it 30 years ago back in 1982 when I was about 19, so it shouldn't
be too much of a challenge in 2012.
I will need advice on what is the best trans to use.
One of the biggest jobs will be a chop top. I just want to do it. I wanted one back when I was 19 and never did it, so I want to do it now if I do
this project. Let's call it a bucket list event. I'm not too concerned about this part of the project either. I have 2 trades, one as a panelbeater,
and the other as a fitter, machinist, so I'm reasonably handy when it comes to doing things.
The other thing I want to do is put in a tough engine and it HAS to have aircon......I haven't seen anyone mention aircon on this board yet. Are
there kits available?
The goal is, I'd use it as a daily driver to work, and then sometimes go for a blat down the quarter for a bit of fun. I don't want to tun the world
on fire, just have fun.
My idea was to get a floorpan first, or a junker that I could get the floor pan from, and keep the roof to use bits for a choptop, but basically start
with a floorpan, do all the bods like later front end, auto conversion, bracing where required etc etc.
Then once that is done, get another body that has the oval window, do the chop top, and then marry the two together.
What are your thoughts and suggestions on this.
Greig
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colin
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 02:46 PM |
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Mazda 3 
Col
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 02:55 PM |
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Hmmmmm..... We did recently get a new Cruise with full leather and sunroof, but I hadn't seriously considered the Mazda 3.....lol.........
NEXT...!!!!.....
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modulus
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 03:29 PM |
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Get a BMW Z3; should meet the bill exactly and can be bought from your local hairdresser.
hth
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waveman1500
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 03:47 PM |
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All of it can be done, but it will of course cost you a lot of money. We're talking enough money to buy a brand new car for a daily driver AND a
Beetle for a weekend toy.
You want auto, aircon and big power from your engine, which to me sounds like a Subaru conversion is getting more and more attractive. Maybe talk to
Subarugears to see if they do a diff conversion for a Subaru auto box. Then, you could just graft in the whole package from a Liberty or Impreza,
including stock engine, air con, injection, auto trans and the lot. Much cheaper than adding all that to a Beetle engine. I have never seen a Beetle
with air conditioning in person, but I think some guys on here have done it with their engine conversion.
In terms of the ball-joint front end, if that is what you want then you are better off starting with a late-model floorpan and then putting an
early-model body onto it. Putting oval window or other early Beetle bodies onto late-model floorpans is a well-known conversion and it's fairly
straightforward, you only have to change a couple of minor details because the basic shape is the same.
If you're going to do a chop-top it would be a crying shame to cut up a good oval-window bug. You can get the oval window panel inserts to weld into
a later bug, so if you're doing a chop you may as well start with an early square-window bug (1958-1967) and convert it to oval. That will probably
also save you a fortune, because oval window bugs aren't cheap these days.
Since you want all of these mod-cons in an early VW for a daily driver, have you thought about getting a Type 3 instead? They were available with auto
boxes and even fuel injection as standard, and they have a lot more room inside them for daily duties. Having owned and driven both, the Type 3 has a
lot more elbow room, because you essentially get the space taken up by the Beetle running boards inside the car. They also have a lot more usable
luggage space, because you get an easily accessible hatch or boot (depending on body style) at the back as well as the front. The Type 3 engine bay
also has a lot more room in the engine compartment to accommodate a Subaru conversion easily.
Of course, before you embark on any of these modifications it would be wise to speak to a certified engineer about getting it approved. You're
talking about major changes to the body structure, suspension, ride height, drivetrain and engine power, so it's going to need to be engineered.
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 05:04 PM |
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I did drive a Z4, but decided it wasn't what I wanted.
I've looked at doing a Locost clubman, but again, not quite what I want as they're not real good in the rain.
The engine doesn't need to be anything over the top for now, and initially I'd be cool with a 1600 twin port. So long as I plan for something else
down the track and I do things that will allow for that, and not redo something.
I'm happy with the oval conversion although I haven't seen the kit. Is it steel and does it include the grille?
Of more concern is getting the right front end etc planned and not find I start something only to find I didn't plan ahead and I have to do something
twice.
Even air con should be reasonably easy to deal with I would have thought.
Here's a question then. For handling and fitting discs, I presume the ballpoint front end would win out. Would this be correct?
If so, what model did they start in, does that model have the lay down headlights, and if not, will the early guards bolt onto the later, say '67
body for example, or alternatively, will the ballpoint front end bolt into the earlier model.
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modulus
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 05:43 PM |
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Have you seen this Ebay listing?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VW-Beetle-Chop-Top-/130751632823?pt=AU_Cars&ha...
It's a chop-top oval on a ball-joint, IRS, 4-wheel disk brake roller with adjustable-height front beam, drop spindles and no engine.
hth
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 MISS VDUB
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 06:13 PM |
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Please purchase someone elses project like Pete has posted above, please dont mutilate another Oval.
Expect to get comments as posted above due to the fact the reason we love our CLASSIC Volkswagens is due to what they have to offer (or lack of), the
simplicity of their design and characteristics. We also own modern cars for the things listed above.
1963 Single Cab Ute: "El Concreto"
1962 Baja Beetle: "Peanut"
1968 Porsche 912 SWB: "Pip"
1972 Kombi Snail: "The Snail"
2012 Skoda Octavia Scout: "Scout"
2016 Scirocco R: "Rocco"
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 07:40 PM |
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No offense to anyone, but my experience has been that when you buy someone else's half finished project, you end up redoing all the things you
bought, unless you know who did the work in the first place.
As I said, I'm more than happy with an oval conversion. I would just want it weld in and include the grille, otherwise it's a half done
conversion
I'm not a fan of cutting up rare things if they're in good or restorable nick. But I'd be happy to look at all options if a body came along that
was suitable.
Early chassis choice is to stay clear of ADR's.
I like the look of long boot lids etc, hence a chassis that will keep me away from ADR's and then a body that gives me the look without sacrificing
other things.
I'll end up building a car with air con if I think it's a reasonable mod in Qld, because I'm the one going to drive it.
Again, no of fence to anyone, but modifying, in my opinion, is like art. We all interpret it differently.
I'll spend more time building it than driving it to be honest, so I'll build what I feel is appropriate for when I finally do get to appreciate all
the hard work.
Now, what was the story about front end swaps. Is it a straight swap or is there something I should know.
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vwo60
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 07:58 PM |
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I would have no issues modifying any model vw, ever one has a different opinion and that makes the world go around, the 68 pan will not bring you into
any conflicit with the ADR's, that is the type of pan that you will require. you have the right idea about not narrowing the front beam, fit the
correct offset wheel's so you can maintain the correct scrub radius and the car will handle to it's full potential, early front ends and later front
ends have a different tube spacing so a direct swap does not work, you can change the floor pan head on the early chassis to a later one but you would
still have the swing axel rear, so the 68 auto pan would probably be the most suitable one for you to use.
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 08:33 PM |
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Awesome. That's the info I needed. Thanks for that. If the '68 is IRS then that also saves me converting it.
My understanding is an earlier body is able to be fitted with a small amount of work.
I'll keep my eyes out for a pan now, and do some more research on what auto is best to fit. It looks like a type 4 engine also seems to be a good
choice from what I've seen, but again, I'll do some more research.
Once I get a pan done, and a body fitted, I can look at doing the chop. One step at a time.
Thanks again
Greig
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Mr Muppet
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 09:16 PM |
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You might need to turn the Hate Filter on this thread 
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 09:34 PM |
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Nah, no hate...... Just lively discussion on opinions..
I'd hate to think what people would say if they knew what I was doing to my 1918 JD Harley project.......lol
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Smiley
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 09:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MISS VDUB We also own modern cars for the things listed above.
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Speak for yourself!! Some of us a aircooled nuts and actually drive ours as daily drivers too!
Smiley 
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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modulus
A.k.a.: Peter Hill
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 09:54 PM |
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Just as vw060 said, the 68 pan is the best base for what you want to do.
As for auto boxes, some transporters with type 4 engines had automatics which reputedly are able to take quite a bit of power (I don't have any
direct experience, others on the forum will be able to support this or debunk me). This, combined with a type 4 engine should give a quite robust
drive train; the type 4s can be stretched to about 2.7 litres - or even more- (see http://www.tunacan.net/t4/reference/displace.shtml ) but parts prices are quite high. "nbturbo" on this forum has gone
down the route of a type 4 engine with a type 3 auto; see this thread: http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=41005&page=1. Modern A/C compressors, such as run on
Japanese/Korean cars of around 2 litres, are quite efficient and would present no great challenge for such a combo. In fact, many type 1 engines in
Malaysia run A/C using such compressors. Of course, you could alternately opt for a Subaru engine with A/C, which would be a simpler engineering task
(although you seem to have the knowhow and facilities to tackle the other path) and would likely end up less expensive.
Fitting an earlier body to a later pan is straightforward, requiring only modification of the rear body/pan mounts to allow the earlier, sexier bodies
to be mounted. Every decent chop top VW which I have followed on the interwebs requires about 3 donor roofs to get clean lines with minimal filler, so
you'll want to start collecting shells ready for the chop, including an oval window and grill section; these do come up from time to time as the roof
sections tend to survive the rest of the car.
I'm looking forward to seeing the build progress over time; like Miss VDub I wouldn't encourage you to carve up an oval in good condition, but
large-window early bodies ('57 and later) were produced in the millions and are neither rare nor precious; quite the opposite in fact; they need
saving by projects like this.
hth
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vwo60
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 09:57 PM |
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None of the VW autos from the older cars would be suitable as parts for them are hard to find and are hard to fit into the pan without major surgery,
as stated in a earlier post maybe a subaru auto box might be able to be adapted, i was nearly temped to by Rods split window bug at valla and drop a
decent motor and box into that, that's when you would need the hate filter. at least i would not have to paint it.
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 25th, 2012 at 10:54 PM |
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Seriously guys, if you bought that split you'd HAVE to keep it as stock as a rock.......
I don't want to go down the Subaru track, just.........because.....
I'll hit up nlturbo and get some more advice from him as to boxes. I really like the way he mounted his, and it all seems to work well. I spoke with
a friend today who does blue plates, and he gave me the number of a guy to speak with for the auto conversion and chop. I'll also speak with him
about the front adjusters to make sure it's all above board.
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newghia
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 07:49 AM |
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There was a light blue late beetle at Valla that ran a type 3 auto & air Cond
Can't remember the plates on it, I think it may have come from Qld
Nath
Step up to get out !!!
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vwo60
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 08:00 AM |
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A lot of engineering and modification to the structure of the pan to fit the full auto vw boxes and they still would not be as strong as the subaru
box, i do not know wheather a subaru auto would fit any way. if i would have bought that split i would have had no issues modifying it as nothing is
really that sacred. there are plenty of modified splits around. just none i can think of in Australia.
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hellbugged
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 08:20 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
if i would have bought that split i would have had no issues modifying it as nothing is really that sacred.
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X2 
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Mr Muppet
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 09:35 AM |
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Have you checked out "20bkombi" threads for your auto box, he modifies them to suits different applications, smart dude.
Also with your front end (so correct me if im wrong people's) but I believe you can buy a new frame head to suit a b/j front end and weld it into an
early pan.
Maybe give Custom Vee Dub a ring , they do all kinds of conversions, they are at Stafford, Brisbane.
Check out this site: http://www.glass-action.com . They have split rear window
kits you can graft in.
Michael
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 10:56 AM |
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Thanks Michael.
I'll check out custom VW.
Cool link. I like the widened fenders. Back in the seventies I saw a VW in Dune buggies and Hot VW's that had widened guards. I did my own in steel
in '82 in a similar fashion. I cut the front guards off at the lip where it bolts to the body and put 50mm strips in each guard. This pushed the
headlights 100mm further apart, but kept the original shape from the headlights out. I loved that look, especially when the front end was dropped on
the deck. It looked soooooo fat and wide. I like their guards too. It's easier in fiberglass, especially with the rears, due to the angle where the
guard meets the body. Like a chop top, you can't just cut it and move it. The compound shapes require more or less metal.
Greig
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Mr Muppet
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 12:29 PM |
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Hey mate,
I had a craped out body a while ago I was thinking about chopping. And I was told it would be a good idea to keep the rear window as it is and cut a
vee out starting from a point behind the rear side windows to the front pillar at whatever hight you would like to take out of the front windscreen.
Then bend the roof down and the pillars around to suit. That's just something to think about, but it's always good to start with a registered car
first before you start going to town on it.
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 12:43 PM |
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Yeah that's how I wanted to do it back in the 80's, but sold the bug and got into motorcycles before I got around to it.
I'm concerned it might look too "wedged", but maybe a couple of cuts around, a bit like when you do a lobster back in sheet metal.
I'm guessing it may be a bit of both. I'd like a V Dub version of a 300C Chrysler...... lol....
I really like the look of the fat blue bug on the site you mentioned. I think I might look at some guards from them, and to be honest, I think I like
the look of their back window in lieu of an oval. Very cool
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Mr Muppet
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 12:55 PM |
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Here is a couple more sites to look at:
http://www.volksconversions.com.au/ Gold Coast
http://www.airkewld.com
http://www.dasrestohaus.com.au/ Gold Coast
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Joel
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 02:38 PM |
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What's funny is that same bug was forsale at the 1996 Nationals in the condition as on ebay for the same asking price although its had some
suspension work done since then
It's not an oval it was a 63-64.
Re. the A/C, it's getting fairly common now.
theres a few companys overseas that sell kits, depends what style you want, the vintage air kits that gilmore sell have a well designed evap unit that
sits under the dash but there condenser placement under the gearbox is shit for a lowered car.
The kits are alittle on the exy side by the time you get them shipped to aus, I'm an ex fridgy so made mine up from scratch rather than a kit for
less than half the cost and a few places around do the same.
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 04:07 PM |
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Thanks Joel.
I'd be curious what parts you used. I was looking at just putting an under dash unit in like you would install in a hot rod.
I'm happy to make things if required, even if I have to model them and make billet items.
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 Yogie
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 04:27 PM |
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Just to clarify as well, the 68 and up pans are ball joint front and swing axle rear end. You only get the IRS (double jointed axle) rear end if you
get a pan from a semi auto bug. The IRS didn't happen until you get to the superbugs with a McPherson strut front end from memory. The only other
ball joint IRS combo was the 76 year model but that will bring with it ADR issues.
Yogie
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TAFEteacher
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 04:48 PM |
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Oh, OK........Thanks Yogi.
I was looking at a '68 on EBay, but I'll keep doing research. If I'm going to be doing the auto conversion anyway, then it wouldn't matter what I
started with.
What years were the stick shift with ball joint and IRS available, but still earlier than ADR's?
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speedster356
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| posted on August 26th, 2012 at 04:54 PM |
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"I'd hate to think what people would say if they knew what I was doing to my 1918 JD Harley project.......lol "
I hope its somethiong like this!
Heres mine.
Spyder-WISD 07-09-05 11.6s @ 125 MPH
Speedster-WISD Nats 05 14.4s @ 89 MPH
Jet cruiser-Coogee 22-09-05 900 deg C @ 110,000 rpm
Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals....................Except the Weasel.
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