| [ Total Views: 1595 | Total Replies: 20 | Thread Id: 13074 ] |
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 Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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 posted on September 8th, 2003 at 08:22 PM |
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AIR SHOCKS!!!
I want to fit air shocks all round my manx.
Is this a bad idea?????
I was thinking of rigging them up to a 4x4 on board compressor with a regulator and solinoid valve to have adjustable ride height in the sand eg then
bring it back down a bit for the road.
any wisdom would be appreciated before i spend my $$$$s
thanks
Travin.
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05  ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable) |
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crazyfiggi
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| posted on September 8th, 2003 at 09:41 PM |
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From what i have herd air shocks are crap. Some where fitted to my ute when i got it and taking them off was the best thing i ever did, but then again
they looked like they had been on there since the 70's
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on September 8th, 2003 at 09:52 PM |
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Yeah I've read that if a certain amount of air is not left in them (around 35 psi I think) they will stuff up quickly.
Mainly my concerns are handling/ safty/leagality/and wether or not i will look like a d*^khead.
They idea was given to me by some blokes that do this on their small 4x4s- but volkswagen suspenion is not the same(like the rest of the car) AND i
can't find much on the web so This would be the best place to ask I guess. Hopefully its a goer cause it would be way kool to have.:bounce
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05 ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 08:35 AM |
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There are heaps of people out there that will tell you air shocks are crap. The problem is very few have tried them, and even fewer have tried new
ones.
Obviously if the are shocks are 10yrs and worn out they will be crap, just like any other shock.
If you pop the bag I am sure you could reseal it with liquid latex from clarks rubber. But like any shock it is usually the shock that wears out
fast.
I ran air shocks on the back of my car for about 6 years. I really liked them. When I had swingaxle they were great, because I could pump them up for
offroad and let them down for the road. Now I have IRS I just leave my susp up all the time.
You don't need an on board compressor. The volume of the air bags if very small and they can very quickly be pumped up with a bicycle pump. Most
onboard compressors also don't put out enough pressure to fully pump up air shocks. My air shocks needed 25-150psi of air. It took a road bike
bicycle pump to get that sort of pressure.
For years I ran both shocks hooked up to a single air valve. I thought it was fine. Then an experience vee-dubber told me to put a shut-off valve
between the two shocks on the road, to stop air travelling between the two. I did that and it was heaps better.
So offroad I would open the valve, and let air go between the two shocks. That would help with axle articulation.
Then onroad I would close the valve, to stop the air moving around. This reduced body roll, and also reduced a weird wallowing wobble it would get on
faster corners.
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Brad
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 12:59 PM |
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They SUCK !!!
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There are heaps of people out there that will tell you air shocks are crap.
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IWonder if this was directed at me ??
Well I have run them for the exact reason that you want to try them and I must say they SUCK big time.
The Manx does not have enough weight to use them effectively so you end up riding around on air bags with no shock dampening, ie a trampoline and a
bloody hard trampoline at that.
A Manx gets away with going hard offroad as it is weighs bugger all and has good suspension travel. It takes 2 fingers to push the front of my Manxs
down 3". Then it gets gradually harder. Ask anyone who has seen my Manx offroad and the front end just sucks up all the bumps I hit, lets me
drive a little faster than others safely .
If you use air shocks you can't get the height and the gradual uptake, end result is a hard ride.
They will also stop your suspension working like the little German guy designed it to. The air shock will take the load off the torsion bars and leaf
packs and really screw the rates up. Also need to keep an eye on your shock towers as they will crack due to increased loads. If you run K & L
front beam you need to add spacers to clear the flat towers. They clear on BJ fronts but will destroy the towers if not gusseted.
In short keep your money. You don't need height in the sand, you need IRS and horsepower. If you have these you can run a street car happily is
you drive well.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 02:07 PM |
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I don't agree with Brad.
If you use air shock designed for an XD falcon it will be a rough ride.
They make small size air shocks to suit the VW. Most people complain the opposite to Brad, and say the dampening part is too small. I found them to be
very similar to a standard shock.
At low pressure they won't make the ride very hard at all. They will hardly do anything. All you need to do is find what air pressure works best.
The pressure is infinitely variable so you should be fine. Even with mine fully inflated it never made the ride stiff. The air gives a very nice
progressive spring rate.
The only draw back is they are expensive.
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fuz
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 07:29 PM |
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its not all bad
i had them on my last Lbug and they worked great, a little spongy at times but thats because i neglected them..
as wes said, if you use a shock for a falcon it will suck bum, but if you use one that suits the dub then you are going to run a good ride.
i was wondering has anyone tried a hydrolastic suspension (similair to that of the morris mini one) and does it do well offroad??
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Brad
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 07:06 AM |
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Here we go !!
At the risk of starting an argument with Wes and letting him use more of those big words of his which scare me. 
I would like to ask if he has ever actually run them on the front or on a Buggy, also what shock exactly is designed for a Manx Buggy with a front end
load of what ?? about 100kg.
I just thought I would ask him so as to prevent any facts getting in the way of a good argument.
:P:o:o
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 08:22 AM |
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I never said I had run air shocks on a buggy or on the front. But I don't see a problem. If you have them at their lowest pressure they will be
no different to a normal shock.
I found them good for the back to compensate for when the car was overloaded with camping gear. I've said all I need to say.
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Brad
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 10:05 AM |
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hehe keepin quite hey ??
Still waiting for the model of air shock you say will work on the front of the manx. In short the valving in them is all wrong. If they are to work of
full load, ie max presure then they need to have a pretty large bore and chamber. If they are to work on light loads then they will ride hard and
vicki verca.
Most air shocks are crap quality which causes them to fade quickly and handle like crap.
At the end of the day, feel free to try them, but ask yourself if they are such a good thing why don't lots of production vehicls have them, why
don't all 4WD's have them and so on ?
Answer they are CRAP..
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J&SBlue
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 12:43 PM |
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I use them on the back of my buggy which is a swing axle. Unfortunately I dont have the correct ones on there at the moment so the ride from the back
is a bit stiff. Once I can get the Gabriel VW ones that should fix the problem. I know someone who has the correct ones on the back of his swing axle
buggy and they work great.
I have a compressor in the buggy that allows me to put them up or down depending on the road conditions. When you have them lifted then the car
handles crap on a normal road but it allows me to have more ground clearance for going off road without having to have my buggy look like it is jacked
up all the time.
I am interested to know what shocks you have on the front of your buggy Brad ?
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 01:06 PM |
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I had gabriels on my car.
Put a teflon seated stainless steel ball valve between the two shocks and the handling on the road will be much better. I went to a
pneumatic/hydraulic hose shop and bought the necessary valve.
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Brad
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 02:56 PM |
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mmm
I run Monroe shock on the front of my buggy. I can check the exact model when I get home. It will be printed in the next edition of Manx Mania in the
setting up stock suspension for your buggy article.
As for air shocks, the proof is in the pudding...
Hey Wes still got your Air Shocks on ?????
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Brad
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 03:00 PM |
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mmm
I run Monroe shock on the front of my buggy. I can check the exact model when I get home. It will be printed in the next edition of Manx Mania in the
setting up stock suspension for your buggy article.
As for air shocks, the proof is in the pudding...
Hey Wes still got your Air Shocks on ?????
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J&SBlue
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 03:12 PM |
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Thanks
Thanks Brad,
I would be interested to know exactly what you are using. So if you rtemember when you get home that would be great.
Mark.
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72TWINCAB
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 03:24 PM |
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Anyone got any ideas on adjustable suspension for a Kombi.
Low for cruising. Lift and change rims for beach work.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 03:41 PM |
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My air shocks died of old age like all shocks do. The asking price for new ones was about $280 a pair, which I thought was insane. Since I have IRS
and a decent amount of suspension height, I didn't need the air shocks any longer.
If you get the benefits you might justify the price. I still haven't gotten around to buying new shocks yet. I threw some spare monroe's on
the back that I had lying around.
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 09:36 PM |
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Well
It seems I've unleashed a few varing opinions ...
Maybe a compromise is needed- air on the rear and gas/oil on the front?
I'm just sick of the arse of my car getting dragged through the sand after the bloody monster truck 4X4 boys have been hooning through my
favourite spots.
And yes my buggy is usually loaded to the roll bar with camping gear.... mmmm
still undecided- I guess I will have to price some gabriel air shocks- that might convince me to spend the time and adjust the splines
:vader
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05 ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 09:40 PM |
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P.S.
P.S.
Thanks for your opinions guys....
:beer
keep em coming- and Wes- thats a good idea with the valve- thanks
[Edited on 10-9-2003 by Mad Manx]
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05 ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)
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Brad
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| posted on September 11th, 2003 at 08:29 AM |
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Air Shocks
If you want adjustable suspension I would add rear adjusters. In line with what Wes said though if you have an IRS rear end juts run it raised all the
time.
You can also add coil over shocks which I beleive are better than the air version but I still have concerns about shock towers cracking. Custom
Offroad in Brisbane ( Forum Sponsors ) make their own Coil Overs and are the best I have found.
I Have never had any problems driving with 4wd and their rut makers, the buggy is nibble enough to drive on the rut sides if need be.
We will have to get togeather some time and go out and play. I am planning on Stockton 1st weekend in November and Fraser at the end.
I think at the end of the day you will have to play with whatever you run to get it right. I must say that once you have it dialled in it is well
worth the effort. The feeling of driving over stuff while the 4WD's in front of you almost bounce of the road is awesome. Also driving above the
high tide mark at 80 - 100 kmph while the 4WD's slog it out at 40 way cool ...
As long as you are doing it in a Buggy you are doing it right !!!!
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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 posted on September 11th, 2003 at 03:13 PM |
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Air Shocks
Don't want to argue either....Ran air shocks on my Manx for 5 years before I killed them. They were fine and better than the Munro gas ones which
replaced them! Had a compressor plumbed in and isolator valves on all shocks to stop them "shifting" when flogging it around corners. Ran
the front on 40 psi and the rears on 110 psi (have swingaxel) Could not fault them and will be putting another set on all round when I do my rebuild
in 2 months. Sorry Wes. Am to lazy to pump them up with a bike pump!!!!:bounce
tssnq.com.au
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Brad
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| posted on September 12th, 2003 at 05:16 AM |
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mmm
Manx Rebuild... sounds cool so what are your plans ?
Oh back to shocks... I think it is evident that everyone has different opinions.
So what are you going to do Mad ?
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on September 14th, 2003 at 07:58 PM |
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Well first things first I will have to get in and weld up the rust holes in the firewall cross member I found- don't want the bugger fallin in
half on me. But in the mean time I am seeing what trade prices I can get the shocks for (for the rear as I'm not up to putting in an irs rear end
just yet)..... and i'm thinking maybe regular adjusters for the front beam. Ahh yes and I have started cutting out some metal to gusset the shock
towers like you sugested Brad.
Looks like I will have to hurry up and re-register my car so I can come and play with U blokes (hasn't been a pirority yet as I live on a back
road to one of the best beach driving areas in my region)
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05 ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)
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