| [ Total Views: 3678 | Total Replies: 28 | Thread Id: 72067 ] |
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 The Brewmaster
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 posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:22 PM |
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Gas Conversion for a Type 4 Engine
Had a gas conversion on Wilfred the 74 SC Ute for over a week now and have been extremely happy with the results.
All I can say is ......"Oh my God"........ the old dog is full of gas and suddenly has a spring in his step and speed to burn!.........
To say we are estatic would be an understatement and my 'kruise' along the coast road from Noosa to Caloundra turned into a highway run which I
thoroughly enjoyed at errrrr...... 120 km without noticing the speedo getting there. ..... or when I had to pass some plastic modern vehicles (up to
140km)
Here is what it looks like....
Left side of engine showing oil filter, plate and the Converter with the air filter of the Inpco Gas Carby on a 32/36 mm throtle base.
Right hand side of the engine
Cut in the wall between the engine and the gas tank
72/75l gas tank
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:23 PM |
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Here is a diagram Geoff drew to explain what happens with a gas conversion....
As you can see the gas comes in the filler hose and sits in the tank as a liquid.
That liquid gas then goes into the Converter where the liquid gas changes state by being turned into a gaseous state.
Notice the hot oil hose bringing in hot oil and the hose bring ing the cool oil back out.
The gas is then pumped into the Manifold which is a tuned lengthprogressive Plenum style with an Impico 300a gas Carby on a 32/36 throtle base.
Notice that there is twin cone section that has a valve which closes off and allows any gas to bounce back (reversion) and be matched with more
incoming gas. Through accoustic tuning Geogg has been able to turn reversion into inlet pressure and the end result is that it produces more
torque.
I aplogise if I have not got some things quite as Geoff explained them to me but I am trying to post what he said. I'm a teacher..... not a
listener........ 
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:28 PM |
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You should have got a "before and after" oil temperature reading!! Would be good to see some actual figures to see if it runs cooler due to the gas
cooling the oil..... Good stuff!!
tssnq.com.au
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:37 PM |
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Stuffed up and started a breakaway thread.
What work was done on Wilfred's engine?
What work was done on Wilfred's engine?
Many people have asked me what we were having done to Wilfred's engine for the gas conversion.
Well that is like opening a can of worms as each and every engine will be different and the costs reflect this.
Geoff found some things did not need much work in some areas but others might have to fork out a lot more to fix before the gas conversion
commences.
Here is a list of things that Geoff had to do to prepare the old dog for some gas....
[LIST]crank grind to suit the case 0.002" clearance (standard)
[/LIST]
[LIST]new Billett camshaft C-25 234* AT 0.050" lift
[/LIST]
[LIST]ceramic coated piston skirts
[/LIST]
[LIST]new rings
[/LIST]
[LIST]new cylinder heads AMC (made in Brazil)
[/LIST]
[LIST]modified inlet port 8.75:1.0 compression ratio
[/LIST]
[LIST]manifold - tuned length progressive Plenum style
[/LIST]
[LIST]Inpico 300a (mixer) gas carby on 32/36mm throtle bases
[/LIST]
Just before I left Geoff showed me pics he took of Wilfred's engine being taken apart ready to add all nis new bits and tits ....:o ..... can't wait
for him to burn me a disc and mail it down to me to post on the forums.
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:39 PM |
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Some more pics to go with Geoff's diagram
First of all there is the filler inlet. Instead of cutting another hole like some dodgy gas fitters do we used the same inlet as the petrol tank. Yes
we removed the petrol tank ........ before you ask.
Geoff's Diagram ..... section on the filler and gas tank
Filler inlet in the same place as the old petrol tank
Gas tank 72/75 litres
Here is the safety mechanisms on the gas tank behind the magic box
Some people may ask why the tank is sitting a bit forward of the missing fire wall. Well when Geoff was fitting the tank he found a patch of rust
which we are addressing as part of Wilfred's resto ..... hence the slightly forward stance at this moment in time.
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:40 PM |
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Here is the section where the liquid gas in piped to the converter where it meets hot oil and converts the liquid fuel into a gaseous state.
Geoff's diagram section
gas converter with oil filter plate and ingoing (hot) and outgoing (cold) hoses.
Coverter with incoming hot oil hose and outgoing cool oil hose.
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:42 PM |
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Here is the next stage where the transformed liquid has been converted into a gas and heads towards the progressive Plenum style tuned length
manifold
Here is the converter feeding into the manifold
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:44 PM |
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Here is the manifold with its tuned length progressive Plenum style manifold. It has a Inpico 300a gas carby on 32/36 throtle base
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:45 PM |
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Here is the converter photographed upsidedown so you can read it.
In Winter Geoff says the button in the middle can be primed to help start the engine on a cold morning...... as this is a common problem with some gas
conversions.
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 1st, 2008 at 11:59 PM |
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Thanks Mick
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
You should have got a "before and after" oil temperature reading!! Would be good to see some actual figures to see if it runs cooler due to the gas
cooling the oil..... Good stuff!!
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I will talk to Geoff who did the gas conversion and find out for you what sort figures tghese are.
But I have power to burn and speed to keep up with all the modern plastics on the highway. Have shocked a few over the past week!
Showed the conversion to my local VW mechanic and he was so impressed he wants to recommend Geoff to people who have shown an interest in gas
conversions for air-cooled engines.
Finally someone is not doing the start on petrol then change over to gas type conversion!
Cheers
Brett
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 2nd, 2008 at 12:04 AM |
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You have a PM...and too many cars...
tssnq.com.au
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:09 AM |
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Nice!
I felt this weird compulsion to check whether the motor is still in my van after seeing yours. Eerily similar.
Thanks for all the photos. LPG conversion is something that has been kicking around in my head for a long time but I hadn't heard of an elegant
pre-heat solution until this!
It's starting to look more worthwhile to make myself look like an idiot and do the call around to the local conversion places. Someone told me there
is one locally that pre-offsets the government cashback thing, making conversions anywhere between cheap to free.
With LPG I could put the 914 pistons back in too.
It's a touch off topic, but what's going on with your heater booster fan and the pipes that stick through into the bay?
I've never needed them before but it seems like the roadworthy people here are well... I won't say, so I'm knocking together something that looks
the part for the roadworthy inspection.
I was just curious if you still had the setup at all on yours or just relocated it?
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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MR930
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| posted on October 2nd, 2008 at 04:58 PM |
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How will the gaskets in the convertor go with the oil ?
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RISKYBUG
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| posted on October 2nd, 2008 at 06:59 PM |
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not sure to ask but what kind of bux is it worth??
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Joel
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| posted on October 2nd, 2008 at 08:34 PM |
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geez brett u can even take a photo of an engine part and make it look good
well ur the 3rd person now to say they run better on gas than on petrol
cos both kyra and jules have said the same thing
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mnsKmobi
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| posted on October 6th, 2008 at 12:08 PM |
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What are the head temps like?
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The Brewmaster
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| posted on October 7th, 2008 at 05:00 AM |
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Guys
I have to ring Geoff this week to give him some feedback on Wilfred.
I will ask the following questions as he will be able to tell me......
1. What are the head temps like?
2. How will the gaskets in the convertor go with the oil ?
3. What's going on with your heater booster fan and the pipes that stick through into the bay?
.......plus a few other questions I have had asked on The Samba.com .......
Joel
Strange that you mention Kyra and Jules. Geoff also did Jules' GAV but there's about $5k more worth of blueprint work gone into her engine. Geoff
has a test course that runs near his place. .... hit the bottom of the hill at 80kmph and record the speed at the top. Before the conversion Wilfred
used to slip back to 70kmph but afterwards  was at 95kmphr........
Jules's GAV is still the best at 105kmph.
I know Kyra has had a lot of trouble flicking between gas and petrol and she is now mainly sticking to gas..... and is really pleased with the
conversion.
Hopefullywhen my fuel gauge is installed ..... rather than just rely on the old petrol gague for now which only registers half filled when full, I can
start to post some figures up about fuel consumption.
Cheers
Brett
Interesting to note that over a 24 hour period since I posted it on The Samba, there have been over 260 views........ but apparently some US states
like New York have very few gas bowsers as it's not an option that being promoted by state and federal government there.
59 Beetle "Agnes
72 Beetle "Vera"
73 Bay "Otis"
74 SC Ute "Wilfred" work in progress/daily drive
76 SC Ute "Memphis" - 2008/9 Resto
76 Bay "Rusty Ramal" - Donor Bus
79 Double Slider - Long Term Project
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72kombi
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| posted on October 22nd, 2008 at 11:03 AM |
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Just a quick question or three about this. I've never had a good look at the DC petrol tank area, is there as much room in a panel? Since access to
the tank is limited, how does anyone think this go with the motor rego boys? I'm guessing the 32/36 throttle base is a weber progressive? Any
thoughts on how this would go on a type 1 motor, german throttle body manifold from the USA maybe?
Cheers guys
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GTMac
A.k.a.: Andrew
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| posted on October 24th, 2008 at 01:26 PM |
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Sorry if I missed it somewhere in the post. But what type of $$$ are needed to do this conversion?
1971 Type 3 Fasty - EJ20T
I love 242HP sleepers. 
How many sets of lights does it take a $229k Carrera S to learn?
UPDATE: Cayman S, M3, B4 now added to the list. |
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squizy
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| posted on October 24th, 2008 at 02:58 PM |
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Can someone explain if this gives more power, and if so, how?
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on October 24th, 2008 at 11:17 PM |
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You can run higher compression as the gas cools the intake charge and doesn't give off as much heat as petrol does. Plus it burns more efficiently
than petrol does. MMM gas and turbo on type 4........ very nice......
you won't get a gas tank of any reasonable size in DC where the petrol tank is. As for a panel prolly have to go up on the back over the engine.
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
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tdonaldson
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| posted on May 15th, 2011 at 09:36 AM |
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Resurrection please!
I was wondering if anyone could post an update on this vehicle? I looked at the users profile, and it seems like its been a while since he posted.
I am looking at doing a gas conversion on a type 1 engine. A lot of sources say not to heat the regulator with oil, but it seems to work fine. I was
hoping to see how many miles are on it, and how its performed. |
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vlad01
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| posted on May 15th, 2011 at 02:48 PM |
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EGI "electronic gas injection" system would of been even better 
its a performance upgrade even over EFI.
this is just one example
http://www.gas-injection.com/index.html
Note this system is not available yet but other manufactures do make systems available with similar design.
Usually at LPG conversion specialist the gas injection systems are available with only $2000-3000 out of pocket.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tdonaldson
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| posted on May 16th, 2011 at 11:59 AM |
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I'm actually an American. I'm browsing over here because you guys are so far ahead of us with propane. We have a good number of new cars that run on
methanol, but barely any personal vehicles are propane. Maybe some city buses and fleet vehicles, but no regualr cars. The kits to make a dual fuel
vehicle with gasoline/propane start in the $5000 to $8000 range so far as I know. There's no way we're touching a propane injection for prices like
you guys have.
But since we use it for our forklifts, and the type 1 engine is small, I should be able to convert it to propane with a regular mixer for less then
$500. |
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vlad01
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| posted on May 16th, 2011 at 01:07 PM |
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aarrhaha only in America!
what this? no C3H8 ? and everyone thought America has it all.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tdonaldson
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| posted on May 17th, 2011 at 01:56 AM |
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Yeah, idk what the propblem is with America and propane. I think someone must be throwing money around to keep the conversion out of the major
manufacturers.
There isn't many propane cars on the road so most of my advice is coming out of Australia or England. This is the first ACVW I've seen that I might
be able to see the long term life of with an oil heated converter. |
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Ampdub
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| posted on May 19th, 2011 at 02:08 PM |
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Why not just go with liquid injection? almost like having an intercooler. hore HP and better consumption.
http://www.australianlpgwarehouse.com.au/Products/Systems/JTG-Liquid-Injectio...
http://www.lpgli.com/features.html
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/6066/liquid-injection-lpg-boosts-power-and-e...
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vlad01
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| posted on May 19th, 2011 at 08:20 PM |
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see! thats what I am talking about. 99% of people only know about the conventional setup as on this type 4.
That air stream setup is crap imho
gas injection ftw!
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tdonaldson
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| posted on May 19th, 2011 at 10:56 PM |
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Im not even Fuel injected. I might be able to work this if I got all the parts/heads for that. Still seems like it would cost a lot more than I'm
willing to spend on a Rail Buggy. I only bought it for $1800. I do see your point though, it looks like the cat's a$$. |
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