| [ Total Views: 2143 | Total Replies: 28 | Thread Id: 72668 ] |
|
|
 ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2008 at 02:57 PM |
|
|
I think this is bad (now with running vids)
Only recently started the engine (ej20t), was rebuilt over a year ago.
It doesn't run too badly, although blows a fair bit of smoke and keeps revving really high (ECU keeps coming up IDLE VALVE problem, but doubly
checked the wiring today and its ok. Even if I totally block of the supply to the idle valve the engine runs).
Anyway, I was getting a bit worried yesterday with the smoke, but I knew there was oil in the exhaust from the mandrel bends etc. But ran it for a
minute just now, and then saw this, black oil leaking out one of the exhaust manifold gaskets... I don't think this is a good sign.
So yeah, anyone know what it could be, valves? rings? headgasket? I did a compression test yesterday when I started to panic, and all 4 cyls came out
great (11-11.5 BAR).
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2008 at 03:34 PM |
|
|
How long have you run it? Run it for 10min to burn out any oil and then it should be ok. It's obviously had a bit of oil inside the combustion
chamber and it's being burnt off and making any exhaust leaks really obvious.
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2008 at 04:20 PM |
|
|
I've probably run it for about 10mins but no more than a min each go, so lots of short bursts.
Just run it again and got it up to operating temp, still a bit of smoke coming out exhaust but doesnt seem to be oozing out the flange anymore. Only
thing is i just can't get it to idle at normal revs... with the idle valve blocked it will go about 1000rpm, but with it all normal, it cycles
between 2,000 and 1000rpm, checked for leaks around all the inlet manifold gaskets but everything seems normal.
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2008 at 04:40 PM |
|
|
Just uploaded a video. You can hear the engine rev up and down, but no one is touching the throttle.
|
|
|
JVLRacing
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1100
Threads: 30
Registered: March 6th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2008 at 07:15 PM |
|
|
make sure there is no cracks in the casing of the heads!
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2008 at 07:34 PM |
|
|
Shouldn't be, they were all stripped, machined, cleaned, pressure tested etc at the engine shop. I'll have a look though
|
|
|
Brad
Wolfsburg Elder
Posts: 3764
Threads: 332
Registered: August 24th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SE QLD, Mt Nebo
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Manx Buggy Building
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2008 at 10:06 PM |
|
|
Check your plugs and their gaps, also check for air leaks. Hard to tell from the vid but it sounds a little hunting. Any vacuum lines off ?
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2008 at 07:22 AM |
|
|
did you have the motor upside down at all? I recently tipped my over to change the sump and forgot to pull the FULL oil filter off first. Werl, oil
went everywhere inside the intake and all. Cleaned it out, pull the plugs and turned it over to make sure it didn't go hydraulic and ran it. For the
first 20 min or so there was a lot of smoke and the open exhaust (no cat/muffler) sprayed oil all over the place, but then it settled down and was
fine. Could be a similar thing happening for you.
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2008 at 05:58 PM |
|
|
Yeah I assembled part of it upside down, but it had no remnants of oil in it as all the parts were cleaned before assembling.
Yeah it was sorta hunting, it was the ecu turning the idle valve on and off, if its electrically disconnected it stays at the lower rev (still higher
than 1000rpm).
I hooked up a vacuum gauge this arvo, got great results, its getting good steady vacuum at idle, drops to near 0 when opening the throttle then spikes
when snapping it shut. I got it to idle good too, I blocked off the air pipe to the the idle valve and then adjusted the bypass screw at the throttle
body to get it to sit about 750rpm, was purring nicely for 15 mins.. AND NO SMOKE! Fans come on and off. Then out of nowhere after 15mins it started
smoking again, and got pretty bad, engine still running fine though. Hooked up the vacuum gauge again, and was still reading great results...
Its got me stuffed.
|
|
|
ian.mezz
Wolfsburg Elder
I never said, I could write or spell
Posts: 3913
Threads: 280
Registered: September 11th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2008 at 08:11 PM |
|
|
stop wasting time, just get it finished and drive the thing,I told you not o buy a vacuum gauge
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 PM |
|
|
Bah, who said i bought one 
I'm going to take the cylinder head off and do a full inspection tomorrow.... Nah, just kidding.
Yes you are right, I said i'd put the sidepods on at the weekend, and ended up playing with the engine, should get the rear bar from the
powdercoaters tomorrow too, so i'll try and bury this problem and move on.
|
|
|
seagull
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4979
Threads: 752
Registered: December 25th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: PerthWA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 4th, 2008 at 11:47 PM |
|
|
I have seen this before . The cables to the AFM were damaged & the isolated wire was getting a feed to step the motor up in rpm . I pulled the dip
stick out and there was nearly 2ltrs of fuel in the sump . This washed the bore & fuel was coming out the zorst.
the other this was the kid down the road lined the ring gaps all up , I striped the motor down set the rings correctly & its now fine
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 5th, 2008 at 05:43 PM |
|
|
Thanks Neil, i'll check out the AFM wires.
Yeah, its been that long ago, i remember lining all the ring gaps to the angles in the manual, but maybe something like that has happened. I'm not
going to worry about it for now, i might take it to my parents place on the weekend and take it for a fang around their makeshift rally track
(driveway), as I havn't put any load on it yet.
|
|
|
seagull
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4979
Threads: 752
Registered: December 25th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: PerthWA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 6th, 2008 at 12:28 AM |
|
|
did you fit the pistions in the correct order IE: A pistion in the A cyl B pistion in the B cyl
& the marker > pointing the correct way on the pistion ?
were are the crank breathers plumbed to ?
what sump have you fitted to this ?
not related to the oil leak , make sure you have at least two 8mm earth straps to good earthing points .
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
|
|
|
BlueV2
A.k.a.: Mark
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 193
Threads: 15
Registered: April 22nd, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Blacktown - Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on November 6th, 2008 at 12:46 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by seagull
not related to the oil leak , make sure you have at least two 8mm earth straps to good earthing points .
|
Hi seagull, excuse my ignorance, but why is there a need to have 2 earth straps ? I only have one earth strap to the gearbox and everything seems to
be working fine. Is the second strap just in case the first one fails ?
Thanks,
Mark.
PS. I have a subi in a buggy I am building.
Sharpbuilt V2, EJ25, Subaru 5 Speed, Falcon rear discs, Heater & A/C, Rack Steering
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 6th, 2008 at 05:25 PM |
|
|
Yeah all pistons went back into their original holes. the arrow was in the right spot.
Crank breathers are plumbed just after the air flow meter.
I have the bugat5speed sump
And yeah, got a thick earth to the gearbox and the one to the inlet manifold.
Mark, yeah you can normally get away without the 2nd one, but you are relying on the electrical connection between the gearbox-adaptor, adaptor to
crankcase, then crankcase to inlet manifold for the grounding of sensors and other bits relying on a good engine ground. So its always a good idea to
have it.
|
|
|
ricola
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 437
Threads: 9
Registered: February 5th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: UK
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 6th, 2008 at 06:45 PM |
|
|
You can buy earthing kits (or make one up) that have a lot more than two earths. People swear they give better smoother running engines. Look on the
subaru forums, there are probably some FAQ type DIY guides about the best places to earth.
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 6th, 2008 at 09:40 PM |
|
|
Yeah, but beware, a lot of them are complete rip off's. I've seen them for $150, and all it consists of is a few legths of cable with lugs on either
end. I could makeup similar cables myself for about $5 in cable and lugs.
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on November 7th, 2008 at 08:46 AM |
|
|
I had all sorts of issues with my starter not wanting to turn when the car was hot. I also had the odd weird code off the motor for no good reason. A
mate was telling me about the loss of conductivity that metal suffers as it gets hot. In the end, I ran a 10mm battery cable off one of the starter
bolts back to the main earth point in the rear floor and also to the -ve battery terminal. The car now starts now matter how hot it is and the starter
is a STOCK 1800 manual starter. Keeping in mind, my battery is now in the front passenger footwell too and theirs over 2.5m of cable running to and
from the starter. There is no substitute for a BIG FAT earth cable. 
|
|
|
BlueV2
A.k.a.: Mark
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 193
Threads: 15
Registered: April 22nd, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Blacktown - Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on November 7th, 2008 at 09:14 AM |
|
|
Thanks for the information guys. I will make some changes. Cheers.
Sharpbuilt V2, EJ25, Subaru 5 Speed, Falcon rear discs, Heater & A/C, Rack Steering
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 9th, 2008 at 09:36 PM |
|
|
Ok, well, I ended up taking it to my parents place so I could give it a bit of a run. It ran well, goes hard even though i didnt even take it past
3500rpm. I also can't beleive how good it sounds, and its not loud at all... I think I'll be under 96dB.
But, it is still blowing smoke, didnt really seem to get better, didnt get any worse... sometimes it wouldnt blow smoke at all either when driving or
idles, other times it blew smoke while driving and at idle... But still i only did 2-3km.
Anyway, some videos.
And for those that think a wrx hatch can't tow a car and trailer....
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 18th, 2008 at 09:12 PM |
|
|
Umm, whoops. Something a bit funny going on here.
|
|
|
Brad
Wolfsburg Elder
Posts: 3764
Threads: 332
Registered: August 24th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SE QLD, Mt Nebo
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Manx Buggy Building
|
| posted on November 18th, 2008 at 09:16 PM |
|
|
hmmm looks like you have some issues in there, is that the light or fillings ?
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 18th, 2008 at 09:27 PM |
|
|
Yeah, took the head to the engine reconditioner, all looks good, so thinks its the rings. Took a piston out tonight and going to get him to check it,
suspect its not the right oil ring. Checked all the ring gaps and everything was sweet.
Yeah its the light, everything looks fine except for the pool of oil at the bottom of each cylinder. The bores are smooth as, no scratches.
|
|
|
Brad
Wolfsburg Elder
Posts: 3764
Threads: 332
Registered: August 24th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SE QLD, Mt Nebo
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Manx Buggy Building
|
| posted on November 18th, 2008 at 09:40 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratbug
Yeah, took the head to the engine reconditioner, all looks good, so thinks its the rings. Took a piston out tonight and going to get him to check it,
suspect its not the right oil ring. Checked all the ring gaps and everything was sweet.
Yeah its the light, everything looks fine except for the pool of oil at the bottom of each cylinder. The bores are smooth as, no scratches.
|
Thats good to hear, that picture looked like it was full of shavings.
A few questions, you have a bug@5 Speed sump yeah ?
What oil level / capacity have you got ?
What have you done about aeration ?
What did you do about the pickup ?
Reason I ask is that I bought one to do some testing on and wasn't really impressed with the fact they didn't allow for a sub surface oil return,
include a modified pickup or measurements and the fact the dipstick level wasn't correct.
I have seen EJ's get oiled bore issues if the oil level is to high or there is to much aeration.
I haven't run an engine with the bug@5 Speed sump yet so can't say for certain and there are plenty of guys running them and giving the big thumbs
up so there might be no issues at all. Just thought I would ask as I am guessing yours is running.
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 19th, 2008 at 05:22 PM |
|
|
Ok, its official, the rings are wrong.
Looks like, as the engine is an import legacy engine, the rings are slightly different to the ones supplied. The OD of the rings is right, which is
why they fit and gave the right end gaps etc. Get the right rings tomorrow (hopefully).
I had somewhere between 3-4l of oil in it. only have the standard sump divider plates in it (aeration).
Pickup I had to shorten. Yeah had to shorten the pickup, unfortunately can't remember how much but 5-10mm off the bottom comes to mind. The dipstick
seems to rest at roughly the same level as the standard sump, but yeah like any short sump, the difference between L and F will be more than stock.
How high is too high for oil bore issues? This did cross my mind at one stage.. but when you have a look at how high the bottom of the bores are to
even the top brim of the sump its a fair way. Funnily enough, when i first checked the oil level in my brand new wrx it was an inch higher than the
Full mark.. took it back to subaru and they drained 2L out of it (and it was still above the F).
|
|
|
Brad
Wolfsburg Elder
Posts: 3764
Threads: 332
Registered: August 24th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SE QLD, Mt Nebo
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Manx Buggy Building
|
| posted on November 19th, 2008 at 06:43 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratbug
Ok, its official, the rings are wrong.
Looks like, as the engine is an import legacy engine, the rings are slightly different to the ones supplied. The OD of the rings is right, which is
why they fit and gave the right end gaps etc. Get the right rings tomorrow (hopefully).
I had somewhere between 3-4l of oil in it. only have the standard sump divider plates in it (aeration).
Pickup I had to shorten. Yeah had to shorten the pickup, unfortunately can't remember how much but 5-10mm off the bottom comes to mind. The dipstick
seems to rest at roughly the same level as the standard sump, but yeah like any short sump, the difference between L and F will be more than stock.
How high is too high for oil bore issues? This did cross my mind at one stage.. but when you have a look at how high the bottom of the bores are to
even the top brim of the sump its a fair way. Funnily enough, when i first checked the oil level in my brand new wrx it was an inch higher than the
Full mark.. took it back to subaru and they drained 2L out of it (and it was still above the F).
|
Wrong rings, man that suxs.
With the oil return, if you look at the stock sump it has an o-ring seal which ensures the oil that returns goes to the bottom of the sump and does
not just feed into it above the oil level like is happening in the bug@5 speed units. As i said I haven't tested it yet but the design has issues it
is just if that is enough to cause problems.
If you read the SAE paper it was not done by accident.
Looking fwd to hearing how it goes.
|
|
|
BlueV2
A.k.a.: Mark
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 193
Threads: 15
Registered: April 22nd, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Blacktown - Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on November 20th, 2008 at 07:28 AM |
|
|
Good to see that you have found the problem Andrew. Another step forward :-)
Sharpbuilt V2, EJ25, Subaru 5 Speed, Falcon rear discs, Heater & A/C, Rack Steering
|
|
|
seagull
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4979
Threads: 752
Registered: December 25th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: PerthWA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 21st, 2008 at 01:37 AM |
|
|
Make sure you use metal head gaskest & the thick ones . Worth the few extra $
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
|
|
|
