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 67 Fasty
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| posted on December 9th, 2011 at 01:09 PM |
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Fit oxyboxer to Fastback
Hi all
I'm brand new to this site even tho I've dabbled in vw's for 30 yrs. First car was 1970 fastback TLE then superbug in the 80's which I fitted up
with mega cheesy flared guards, whale tale, bumper covers etc. My current squeeze is a 67 fastback which was banana yellow when I got it and is
currently white with porsche alloys. She has been in the shed for the last 15 years after converting to IRS with the intention of strapping something
grunty into it in the future. I have now acquired an oxyboxer and I've got a pair of IDF's to go with it. My question is this....I know I can fit
upright cooling system (doghouse etc) but was wondering if anyone has tried type 3 cooling on an oxyboxer with any success? It must make for a neater
install but my understanding is the type 3 fan has issues? Any help would be much appreciated.
Steve
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1303Steve
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| posted on December 9th, 2011 at 05:37 PM |
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Hi
Your right about the Type 3 cooling being less than good, why not get a WBX and go water cooled, its a very easy conversion on fastback, or go to the
dark side and fit a WRX.
Steve
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 matberry
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| posted on December 9th, 2011 at 07:14 PM |
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I drove an oxyboxer type 3 that Unwin built in the 90's so it can be done.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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67 Fasty
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| posted on December 9th, 2011 at 09:46 PM |
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I've got hi rise manifolds for the webbers so I'd have to do some mods re making carbs fit in boot and cool air for intake but my main concern is
the fan.
1/ does it fit on the type v? crank 2/ Will it handle the occasional 6000 rpm? 3/ Is there a decent after market fan?
Sorry for so many questions guys
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1303Steve
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| posted on December 9th, 2011 at 11:25 PM |
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Hi
The WBX use a cross between a Type 1 & Type 4 crank. The crank is basically a Type 1 crank with Type 4 mains in the centre and the flywheel end,
the big ends are Beetle.
The factory redline is over 6000.
No after market fans are made for Type 3s
Steve
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Burrelli
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| posted on December 9th, 2011 at 11:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
I drove an oxyboxer type 3 that Unwin built in the 90's so it can be done.
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I think that notch had one of the first oxyboxers ever done. It must have been about 94 and before that the engine was in a beetle.
That notch was the fastest VW I had been in at the time.
From memory in the Gene Berg technical articles he said the Type 3 fan was good to 5800 before it starts to cavitate.
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matberry
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| posted on December 10th, 2011 at 08:09 AM |
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Yes Ritchie, I knew you would remember it.
I also have reservations for the type 3 fan, but they will handle >6000 rpm. The biggest complaint they suffer from is the internal rubber bushings
collapse. I have bought reco'd ones from Wolfsburg West that were very well repaired. IMO they are only good for a totally stock engine, esp
camshaft, for a smooth idle. Any cam bigger, makes the idle slightly rougher that kills the fan.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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67 Fasty
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| posted on December 12th, 2011 at 10:42 PM |
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Well I guess that does it then, doghouse shroud it will have to be. I notice Berg offers bead blast, hub and fin welding and balancing on type 3 fans.
Surely this goes a long way to remedying the probs associated with type 3 fan?
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67 Fasty
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| posted on December 12th, 2011 at 10:43 PM |
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and thanks for the info re crank Steve. Much appreciated
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1303Steve
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| posted on December 13th, 2011 at 05:05 PM |
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Hi
I met up with guy at an Autospeed cruise with an orange notch with a oxy boxer in it, must be the same car, I had my WBX bug there. This was in the
mid ninety's.
Steve
| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
I drove an oxyboxer type 3 that Unwin built in the 90's so it can be done.
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Burrelli
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| posted on December 13th, 2011 at 07:21 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 67 Fasty
Well I guess that does it then, doghouse shroud it will have to be. I notice Berg offers bead blast, hub and fin welding and balancing on type 3 fans.
Surely this goes a long way to remedying the probs associated with type 3 fan?
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Yes I thought bergs offered welded balanced fans for type3s in the past but I could not see them offered on their site any more.
I have been told by a few people that would know, never weld the hub on a type3 fan or bolt it together through the puller holes because it will break
the crank. So balancing must be the key.
I'd say the berg mod on the fan would be the way to go to about 6000 rpm. I remember also reading in the berg technical articles him saying once the
vw fan starts to cavitate it takes a lot more power to drive it any faster and it will fail quickly.
I'd like one of those berg fans myself.
And yes the notch was orange.
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matberry
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| posted on December 13th, 2011 at 07:31 PM |
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And yes mid ninetys.
I tried welding and balancing one back then, a 1776 with Engle W100, Hemi heads, stock carbs....fan broke quite quickly
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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vlad01
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| posted on December 14th, 2011 at 11:38 AM |
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yeah don't weld them, break the fan or even the engine real fast.
As mentioned its a harmonic balancer.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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67 Fasty
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| posted on December 14th, 2011 at 02:45 PM |
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I emailed Berg with the question of type 3 fan and they replied that after welding the hub they haven't seen one fail in a performance application.
They also made the point that it all comes down to fan acceleration ie how responsive you're engine is. Given this is a street application and
burnouts will be kept to a minimum I guess it might be worth a try.
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mackaymanx
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| posted on December 14th, 2011 at 06:09 PM |
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This is what the fans look like pulled apart
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2254831
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
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matberry
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| posted on December 14th, 2011 at 07:18 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 67 Fasty
I emailed Berg with the question of type 3 fan and they replied that after welding the hub they haven't seen one fail in a performance application.
They also made the point that it all comes down to fan acceleration ie how responsive you're engine is. Given this is a street application and
burnouts will be kept to a minimum I guess it might be worth a try.
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Well they should know. I'd go for the type 3 setup if the fan works. They are no doubt welded differently than we did to make them reliable.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Matty v
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| posted on December 16th, 2011 at 06:32 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 67 Fasty
I emailed Berg with the question of type 3 fan and they replied that after welding the hub they haven't seen one fail in a performance application.
They also made the point that it all comes down to fan acceleration ie how responsive you're engine is. Given this is a street application and
burnouts will be kept to a minimum I guess it might be worth a try.
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Did they say they are available?
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67 Fasty
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| posted on December 16th, 2011 at 08:00 AM |
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Yes but I think you have to supply the fan. It's listed under their labour section so I guess it's a service they're providing as opposed to a
part.
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=23_525_2996
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67 Fasty
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| posted on December 16th, 2011 at 08:23 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
yeah don't weld them, break the fan or even the engine real fast.
As mentioned its a harmonic balancer.
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I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong Vlad but I don't believe it acts as a harmonic balancer. Harmonic balancers are usually used to correct
resonance problems caused by torsional vibration in the crank. Given that type 1 engines don't have them and type 3 engine is essentially the same I
would be inclined to think of it more as a damper for the fan. If this is the case then welding the hub and correctly balancing the whole assembly
shouldn't be a problem.
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