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engine lids ????when did they change?

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novasmic Officially Full-On Dubber

251 posts · joined Oct 2012 ·

#968502
ok, its been playing on my mind the past few days. wondering if anyone has an input to the years from when they first used the engine lid as shown in image 1, i beleive this engine lid was used with the pope nose number plate light only. then the image 2 deck lid i beleive this was first used with the pope nose number plate light then they changed to the wider light but kept the same engine lid like in image 3.

would like to know the years this took place in Australia

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psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#968519
I believe the pope nose should have always been fitted to the pic 1 decklid with the fluting/swage line going either side of the nose, semi W.
The letterbox style light housing had the lines stop just above it and hence the second pic has used a later decklid with the holes welded up to use the pope nose. I should know as have done this to mine due to PO fitting a later lid. Probably sold the early lid and nose on 🙅

As for years, I think 58 the W lid was redesigned to the semi W. The letterbox light housing came in 64. As to whether the decklid had an 'in between' period from semi-W to the later style but with pope nose I'm unsure.
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#968520
Hi
this can be very complicated.. lol

firstly the blue car has the wrong deck lid..
its from about a 1958 > on
[from 1st august 1957 German factory date]
its wrong for an oval beetle..
the number plate lamp was correct for an oval as it had one piece of flat plastic across the bottom..
for the light lens..

I'll have to check out the middle photo again..
OK the white car looks to be the German 1967 [one year only] beetle as it has the large glass windows which didn't appear in Australia until the 1968 model..
[but were introduced in German beetles from August 1964 [1965 year model] [but the door glass isn't the same as 1968 models.. plus it had round push button door handles]
it has the push button deck lid handle..
Australia 1967 beetles were mostly the same as the 1962 German beetles...

the white deck lid is for a 1964> on beetle with the wide number plate housing
[oddly enough it used the same light underneath as the late narrow housing
[about 1958-63] the tee handle was replaced with the push button one about 1st aug 1966 [1967 year model]

Now, the pope's nose number plate light was also the ONLY STOP LIGHT on the car and it glowed RED with the brakes..
that is why it was called the Pope's nose.. the tail lights on those models had NO BRAKE/STOP lights..

I have photos to show all this.. but not sure when I can post them as I'm going away for a week..

Lee

All dates are for German factory made cars... unsure of the exact time for Australian made cars although My Dad bought a new beetle in 1964
and it had the wide number plate housing and wide front blinkers.. Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#968547
68AutoBug wrote:this can be very complicated.. lol
It's really not, just both those cars are bastardized and are not good examples to use.

The decklid on the oval is not an oval one, that is the semi-W decklid used in Aus from when big windows started in late 57 up to early 64.

The white decklid in the bottom pic is what mid 64 to 67 Aussie bugs had except the 66 and 67 had 1300 badges on them and Deluxe or Custom below if that's what they were.

The very last batch of Aus 67s had the T handle replaced with the push button latch like the white car has.

Problem with the white bugs decklid is that originally had a wider light housing and someone has fitted a small popes nose to it.
The whole bug is a late car made to look early.

It's a 69 1200 pov pak model according to the forsale ad

HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·

#968551
Joel has nailed it.......as usual.👍
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#968632
HappyDaze wrote:Joel has nailed it.......as usual.👍
Aw, no fair. I got it right too just that Joel was more concise.

And as for Leighs comment about the popes nose being a brake light. I believe this was on early splits and the nose was a different shape to those fitted to ovals. By Ovals the brake lights had moved to the wings as dual filament bulbs 🙂
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#968633
Yes, popes nose is the # plate light on split window bugs. After that they are just # plate light housings, oval, narrow and wide. I am quite sure the wide # plate light housing started in '63 but thats splitting hairs
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

novasmic Officially Full-On Dubber

251 posts · joined Oct 2012 ·

#968639
Yes, we'll I have a 63 and it had a wide number plate light, I welded up the holes and put a pope nose on it thinking this was the correct one. I also welded in some cooling vents for my 1600 (1776) that will be going in it.
Not changing it now.... Maybe one day I will.
Pope nose looks better anyway....

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wesdem77 Casual Dubber

37 posts · joined Sep 2013 ·

#969327
Novasmic....how hard was it to weld up those extra cooling vents??

I'm looking for extra air flow, and was thinking of that same idea....
-------------------------------------------
'71 U.S. Super Beetle
'68 Aussie convertible Beetle

novasmic Officially Full-On Dubber

251 posts · joined Oct 2012 ·

#969330
Um.... Well, it wasn't that hard just took me a long time to do. I'm no penal beater so a job that could have been done in a day took me a week ( after work and over the week end. I'm very happy with the result. I cut the vents out of an old beetle I have here.

Next time I do one.... Tip... Get a wet towl and keep the engine lid as cold as possible when your welding. Will save a lot of repair work once welded up.


Regards
Terry

empi Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,131 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#969348
Ok top pic (blue oval ) has the incorrect lid it should be a "W"deck lid.

W's would have stopped in April 57 when ovals ceased

57- early 60's will have a popes nose

mid 60>67 had a slightly different (wider license plate light)

68 - 69 12v lid smooth

70-71 12 v lid 2 lots of vents horizontal

and the later the years the more vents...

the early 6volt lids that has the vents were fitted to factory cabrios.

"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous 🥷

empi Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,131 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#969349
early 60s


Mid 60s


68-69
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous 🥷

novasmic Officially Full-On Dubber

251 posts · joined Oct 2012 ·

#969351
Thanks for the reply, so in the mid 60's they did have engine lids with vents?
Do you have a photo?

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#969359
novasmic wrote:so in the mid 60's they did have engine lids with vents?
Only convertibles did so you;re not likely to see one in aus.

All aussie bugs from 70 had vents, 2 sets for 70 and 71 then 4 sets for 72 onwards.

Everything you need to know about decklids is here, we tried to cover all models

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=490378

novasmic Officially Full-On Dubber

251 posts · joined Oct 2012 ·

#969363
Yes, that answers all my question, including the aug 63 to oct 63 I did believe this engine lid was made from factory like this.....

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#969364
Oh that 63 deal only applies to North America not here.

58-64 was the same decklid here in Oz

The decklid on your bug is from a 66 to mid 67 model

novasmic Officially Full-On Dubber

251 posts · joined Oct 2012 ·

#969371
Yep, off a 1967 but I replaced the shell with a 1963. I thought a 1963 had a pope nose but not the case. Looking back now I would have left the wider tail light but due to the other mods it don't matter I guess. My next beetle I have ready for restore is a 1960. I will pay more attention to detail. Only been into beetles for 18 months so still green but learning shit loads along the way. It's a great hobby. ( love it)

sgetty Fahrvergnugen

994 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·

#971109
this is early sixties and our wedding sign book

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🙂