Type3 Front Seat Adjuster Cams - CNC Milled

After not being able to incline the drivers seat went on the search for seat adjuster cams and came up a blank.

Went on the hunt and found someone willing to try 3D Printing of them so here's what we came up with - this is the protype in plastic but they will be printed in steel.

3D Printed on right side -


Original Cam on left side -

Looks great, does it seem like it would work ok?

Maybe they can include the VW logo and part no?

Works fine - springs that hold the bar ar not in place on this seat so would be better operation if they were.

Posted the pics so people could it on a seat after testing.

There is NO VW part no. On the original - check out the black one it was a No, VW insignia, No then R or L for left or right.

Do you know the part number ?????

They look good Bert. I'll be up for 2 sets if the price is not too high.

I just mean to include the logo etc as is on the original one there.

I'll take a set too. My seat will not come far enough upright as it is now.

Ok guys so Terry for you 2 sets (2 pairs) and the pair I need ..... Cruiser is it just 1 pair (1 set) you want - 3D printing may turn out a little more expensive than 1st thought so looking @ CNC Milling which hopefully will be cheaper and also casting in aluminium.

Will keep you both posted and if you know of any others point them this way - the more hopefully the cheaper for all.

I may be interested in a pair for my daughter's '73 Fastie.

I will keep following the thread, and thanks.

Morts wrote:I may be interested in a pair for my daughter's '73 Fastie.

I will keep following the thread, and thanks.

No worries 😀

Bit of an update ...... conversed with the friend doing this and he feels CNCing can work out cheaper if "internals" can changed thus reducing time to mill and here's some pictures to show what changes -

Original style design with "internals" for CNCing -

Amended style to remove internals - all other specifications remain the same - I'm leaning towards this as you do not see the cams once installed & functionality will not alter AND costs savings which everyone is after 👍

Ok with me, just as long as they work well.

Do you know if this part was unchanged from the start to the end of Type III production or were there changes throughout the years?

cruiser wrote:Ok with me, just as long as they work well.

Can't see why they won't as measurements will be the same and checked - hole diameter for rod and roll pins are possibly most important to ensure fitment.

Morts wrote:Do you know if this part was unchanged from the start to the end of Type III production or were there changes throughout the years?

I have no real idea on that but expect no changes made my '72 has high back seats and wrecked seat I have is also high backed ...... essentially if your seat has the large black knob to adjust seat incline/recliine then should be no problems.

If your seat is out check it out or try to get pictures of cmas on both side of seat and compare ...... I can post up some pics of cams and measurement on digital calipers BUT will vary seat to seat and cam to cam owing to wear factor.

Here's some pictures with measurements - design of protoype and 3D Printing of it provided for wear and thus is fractionally larger but installed worked fine.

I had actually thought the wrecked seat I got had good cams from a couple of photo's provided to me but once removed they had excessive wear on the shaft that goes through the backrest as you can see (just as likely to fail when swapped over to my drivers seat = I'm back to square one.

I'm happy either way Bert. Looks like there could be a few sets to send SA. Didn't think about it at Volksfest but will mention it around at DOTVW in the new year. Do late Beetle seats have a similar setup?

I'd be interested in a set as well

wombatventures wrote:I'm happy either way Bert. Looks like there could be a few sets to send SA. Didn't think about it at Volksfest but will mention it around at DOTVW in the new year. Do late Beetle seats have a similar setup?

Sorry Terry but can't answer the question re late Beetle seats ...... off the top though I'd say no but haven't a seat to reference or picture of one - what year you talking ????

bus914 wrote:I'd be interested in a set as well

Ok, just keep checking back on this thread for updates 😎

Hi guys, and thanks to Bert who is running this thread. I'm spending enough time rejigging designs and chasing quotes to make this happen without chasing numbers and "selling" the idea.
A quick heads up, the design is in at the CNC mob now and they are working on a quote, I will have to get some commited numbers on this project though. I understand that its a bit hard without having a $$$ figure, bit ball park estimates are $75-100 for a pair (enough to do one seat)
Of course the more we get the better the end price will be and even I will be purchasing a pair for display/stock purposes. I have currently ask for a quote on 10 pairs (enough for five 5 cars)

Who else is happy with this figure? Remember we do need solid numbers not pie in the sky maybes.

I'll be in Nils.
Late model beetles with highbacks I was thinking Bert. My 74 Super had Gemini seats in it when I got it. so not sure what VW ones are like.

nils wrote:Hi guys, and thanks to Bert who is running this thread. I'm spending enough time rejigging designs and chasing quotes to make this happen without chasing numbers and "selling" the idea.
A quick heads up, the design is in at the CNC mob now and they are working on a quote, I will have to get some commited numbers on this project though. I understand that its a bit hard without having a $$$ figure, bit ball park estimates are $75-100 for a pair (enough to do one seat)
Of course the more we get the better the end price will be and even I will be purchasing a pair for display/stock purposes. I have currently ask for a quote on 10 pairs (enough for five 5 cars)

Who else is happy with this figure? Remember we do need solid numbers not pie in the sky maybes.

Nils, thanks for providing this update as am sure others will be also.

Bit further on pricing following discussion with Nils is that based on a quantity of 10 pairs the price will be $160.00 per seat so cheaper than 3D printing but not by much.

I don't do facebook so does anyone interested do it - WHY ..... well there is group called Type 3 Contingent based in Melbourne Vic. and they may know of more interested parties - they did have a thread on The Samba (https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5624383) but have since moved to fb https://www.facebook.com/type3/
Someone may want to post/enquire as to interest and direct them back here ????

I was a bit shocked at the price, double what I was expecting really.

Sent the contingent boys a message on facebook and have requested a quote from china manufacturing aswell, guess we sit and wait.

Still interested but will wait to see what you come back with

nils wrote:I was a bit shocked at the price, double what I was expecting really.

Sent the contingent boys a message on facebook and have requested a quote from china manufacturing aswell, guess we sit and wait.

thanks nils 😎

Quotes from China are in, at $145 a pair (one seat)

Thanks Nils,

To me cost still reasonable for a NLA part 👍

Bit of an update and input welcomed.

Nils resurrected a thread on TheSamba for Type 3 Seat Adjuster Cams (just before I got around to joining and doing the same - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487722&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=2e99735df9ac8d1242dd7953b696473c), and a couple of members have shown interest SO we are currently sitting at 9 sets -

AVD
1 set - Nils
1 Set - Bert (Fossil)
2 sets - wombatadventures (Terry)
1 Set - cruiser
1 set - morts
1 set - bus914

TheSamba
1 set - KTPhil
1 set - bus914

Anyone know of other people with a Type 3 who is in need of or would like a set or 2?

Looks as though CNCíng is cheaper option over 3D Printing.

Thoughts on putting up a thread in the For Sale section for expression of interest by members for a set or 2 ...... may do the same on samba once I check the rules.

Thought I had mentioned this before but I did find on The Samba an old post where a set of these were for sale @ USD160.00 - a picture from that advertisement

Thanks Nils and Fossil for all your work on this. I have seen this thread on Samba as well.
I would be interested in one pair (for one seat) as the passenger side seat is ok in my car.
I'll keep an eye on the thread for updates.

Cheers
Tom

Looks as though a couple more interested on The Samba ....... need an update from nils

Tomaselli wrote:Thanks Nils and Fossil for all your work on this. I have seen this thread on Samba as well.
I would be interested in one pair (for one seat) as the passenger side seat is ok in my car.
I'll keep an eye on the thread for updates.

Cheers
Tom

Thanks Tom for your interest ..... have blueT3 on here also interested + possibly 2 more on samba.

We've got 11 "firm" interest and 3 possibles ..... not the best time of year but appreciate everyone's interest 😎

So hard numbers where we currently sit.

We have 11 interested parties, to which we need to clarify whether they want 1 or 2 pairs of cams (the word "set" has been thrown around, I don't want people to think this is to suit both front seats) If we could please refer to them per seat (meaning 1 left cam and 1 right cam) that would be ace to save confusion.

I have a current quote for the manufacture of 10 seats worth. Equating to,

$110USD per seat + $30USD total postage, extra seats will not incur extra postage.

or $165 AU per seat + $12-20 AU total postage depending on location.



This i however dependent on committed purchases, I have at this point only 4 seats confirmed.

I think we will have to set a proposed date for manufacture that I would need numbers by, confirmed by perhaps a 50% deposit.


As to the question of reduction in price to numbers ordered, I have no doubt that the numbers would come down at each multiple of 10, but that is the best I can guess at this point.


Nils

I'm a definite for 2 seats Nils. I'll chuck some feelers out around as well.
Is it worth contacting any of the good parts sellers to see if they would be interested in buying some? I know it might mean hassles but if it could increase the order number it may be worth while.

Terry,

Thanks for confirming your requirements and regarding parts sellers I've approached VVDS who have shown interest (depending on price) and yesterday VWISPWEST who I hope will reply to my contact.

Think there is now 4 Samba members interested also ...... not the best time of year with all the holidays etc to get feedback.

cheers
Bert

We have commitments for 5 seats now so need another 5 for our minimum order of 10 to go to manmufacture 👍

Cruiser, Morts, bus 914 & Tomaselli can you check your PM's please.

We'd like to get an order under way by the end of next week as Nils is going to be away for a number of months and if we can't get things moving with firm commitments (and payments to Nils) as soon as possible then the boat will sail and it won't be until the end of the year that it may become possible - been a long tough slog over the past 4 months to get to this stage and I'd hate to see it fizzle and all come to nothing. People on TheSamba are/will be in the same position.

Your viewing and advices are much appreciated.

Cheers,

Bert

Ok so having trouble editing list of interest so updated list follows -

AVD
1 set - Nils
1 Set - Bert (Fossil)
2 sets - wombatadventures (Terry)
1 Set - cruiser
1 set - morts
1 set - bus914
1 set - Tomaselli
1 set - bluet3

TheSamba
1 set - KTPhil
1 set - Clatter
1 set - hem1tp
1 set - supersuk
2 sets - Brent

Have been conversing with nils and this update provided -

Owing to things happening we'd like to go to production at the end of this week (Friday 13th January 2017) for these seat cams - minimum order of 10 seats (pairs/sets of 1 left and 1 right) required by the CNC Milling company to make it happen.

We have on AussieVeeDubbers interested parties Nils (nilza) - 1 seat, KahunaKombi/Fossil (me) - 1 seat, Wombatadventures - 2 seats, Cruiser - 1 seat, Tomaselli - 1 seat, bus914 - 1 seat. Couple of other not committed people yet but following them up.

To process payment and delivery details please PM or email nils for how he wants you to pay.

On the Samba we have Brent - 2 seats, KTPhil - 1 seat, hem1tp - 1 seat & Clatter - 1 seat.

Will continue to monitor this thread and if you can confirm you've paid that'd great.

Hi Bert, got your PM, but i need to have 5 posts to be able to send PM's in reply. If you can send the details for payment to me by PM, I'll attend to it.

Cheers
Tom

Hi Tom,

Ok, payment is direct to nils and he is finalising pricing so I'll let him know you're a certain.

Cheers,
Bert

Fossil wrote:Cruiser, Morts, bus 914 & Tomaselli can you check your PM's please. Bert

PM responded to Bert

Hi Nils
Received your PM. Once again, thanks for your efforts. Let me know when you are ready to go and I will attend to payment.

Cheers,
Tom

Update time -

Initial order for 10 seats has been placed and allocation commenced in order of notification of committing to buy and it seems all seats (sets) have been allocated - Nils will contact those in the first run by PM.

Sufficient interest is there for a 2nd order (about 5 seats so far) so if you know someone with a Type3 and in need of seat adjuster cams get them onto this thread.

Bert

Hi all,

It has been a busy few days.

The big news is we had a latecomer throw their machining quote in the ring from HongKong.

I understand that we all like to support local, but in this instance it is the only way this project is getting off the ground.

The price did come down quite substantially, and as a result I did pull the trigger on 10 seats to start with. Parties that were interested from the get go have been contacted with first preference on buy in of the batch and once those parties accept or decline I will release the end price and sell off the remainder, possibly run another batch depending on interest.

Watch this space they are going to land in my grubby little hands about the 20th of January.

Nils

Awesome work Nils, and thanks Bert for getting the ball rolling.
Comfy seat positions at last.

Hey Tomaselli, just write something here so that you have the 5 posts required to answer my PM, or contact me at nilsbirkmann@hotmail.com

Hi again all,

We ended up with a price of $100 flat per seat, plus postage,

and currently have 6 spoken for,

Paypal is avalible but will add a 7% charge for costs involved in transaction fees and currency exchange. (sorry I am not making enough money on these to absorb the cost)
for Aussie buyer I would prefer just a basic fund transfer.

If you are interested in a set at the current price please PM me or contact me at nilsbirkmann@hotmail.com

nils wrote:Hi again all,

We ended up with a price of $100 flat per seat, plus postage,

and currently have 6 spoken for,

Paypal is avalible but will add a 7% charge for costs involved in transaction fees and currency exchange. (sorry I am not making enough money on these to absorb the cost)
for Aussie buyer I would prefer just a basic fund transfer.

If you are interested in a set at the current price please PM me or contact me at nilsbirkmann@hotmail.com

PM sent

PM Sent also

Message from Nils -

First batch are all spoken for, I will contact those parties with payment details when I have them in my hands

Please contact me as mentioned above to register interest for further batch.

Pile of shiny parts landed on my desk today, I will start packing up and sending out payment requests this weekend.

Mmmm Shiny! Can't wait. Is putting a mirror under the seat too showcar like?

That was bloody quick!

Be interested to see what the initial reports are like and if there are any modifications/improvements for Batch #2.

wombatventures wrote:Mmmm Shiny! Can't wait. Is putting a mirror under the seat too showcar like?

Recommended by VW54 that moly grease be applied on the old aluminium/magnesium ones but with these ones who wants to hide the shine against a smooth adjustment turn 🤓

Hi all, just a little set back today.
We (Kahuna and I) thought we best test a pair before sending them out.

The bore of the center hole goes over a 12mm rod and although the drawing stated 12.1mm due to mistake of my own, (tolerances being +/-0.1) they ended up being drilled only to 12mm.

As a result don't fit,I will find a reamer in the next few days and clean them all up.

Apologies to those who are waiting, should only set back things a few days

Ok so my set arrived and when they wouldn't fit contacted a friend who had a reamer so visited him and took the centre bore out so the cam fitted easily and spun on the shaft (free movement required to fit them). Pictures following are them fitted to a wrecked seat without backrest put on - fitting to drivers seat at the end of this week

{NOTE: fitment to any seat will be dependant upon the condition and straightness of the shaft/rod and seat condition overall where they are fitted to including frame}

Pictures following are:
Cams outward facing -
New to Original -
Right Cam fitted to (wrecked) seat -

A better picture of the cams -

Drivers seat done early this morning.

So getting it apart no problems then checked out the cams on the seat -

Right Cam - yup it's nackered good and proper

Left cam - screwed also but not as bad as right

New cam fitted to right side (before applying MolyGrease)


New cam left side (before applying MolyGrease)

Every seat will be different.

Some may not need to do anything to make them fit and functional but we did a dummy fit with backrest removed and seat upside down and look how the cams turn through the stages/steps - minor adjustment may be required. Some damage to my drivers seat in the cam seating area specifically where the steps/stage rests on the left lip which we had to repair and then a bit of a file on the radius to smooth it out on the right cam between step 1 & 2 and 2 & 3 ..... NOTE early comment every seat will be different and I only had to do a little on the right cam and not the left even though the machining is identical

That's about it & overall am happy with fit and function so thanks Nils - friend (John) asked when we're doing the passenger seat.:eek::confused:🙄

Great to see a result Bert!

how do you think the new ones will go wear wise ?????
whats the difference in the material they are made of ?????
i wont be around in 50 years to see how they have faired compared to the originals

We're thinking the originals are pot metal, which is a cheap and nasty mainly zinc and aluminum alloy. Its actually reasonibly hard, but I am unsure of the wear characteristics.

I would think the real destroyer of these cams would be lack of lubrication/ maintenance, moving the rest while having your wieght against it and possibly just 40 years of vibration from the car itself.

In any case the new ones are of 6061 T6, which is a magnesium / aluminium alloy, with some silicon as it turns out.
Its very hard as far as alloys go, its heat treated too. Its a good machining alloy due to it chipping instead of clogging the tool, meaning it doesn't smear the material the way you can see the original part has.
It should outlast the original part many times over

pv370 wrote:how do you think the new ones will go wear wise ?????
whats the difference in the material they are made of ?????
i wont be around in 50 years to see how they have faired compared to the originals

MTBF's unknown of original cams and as with these also - with correct adjustment technique used where the weight is taken of the backrest before rotating the adjuster knob wear will be reduced - afterall it's one of the prime reasons why they wear in the 1st place.
Nils may have a better idea of the original meetal composition but possibly some magnesium used also.
Neither will I here in 50 yrs so in the meantime I'll have a comfortable and functioning seat.

Hopefully all of these have reached their destinations by now, would love to hear some feed back before I put the next run together. Whether anything needs to be changed perhaps?

I have interest in 4 more seats at this point, anyone else?

Terry (wombatadventures) got his and had pulled the seat out 2+ weeks ago but haven't heard from him.

It would be great if some from Oz could let you know ..... I'd also be interested in their experience and also what they think ........ personally I'm stoked with them.

Hi Nils

I expressed interest in a set originally. I haven't heard anything more from you. Is there still a set for me?
Let me know by PM what your details are.

Cheers,
Tom

Seat was sitting upside down on the bench for two weeks. Weekends and week nights have disappeared lately.
Got the Drivers ones in Saturday. Fit perfectly work great. I'll post up some pics today, got to retrieve them of my phone.
Excellent job Nils.

Great to hear Terry 👍👍👍

Tomaselli wrote:Hi Nils

I expressed interest in a set originally. I haven't heard anything more from you. Is there still a set for me?
Let me know by PM what your details are.

Cheers,
Tom

Tom the first lot have been out the door for weeks now. You never responded to my PMs, I also added my private email to the thread for those like yourself that did not yet have the forum privlages to send me a PM or respond to one. They moved on to the next buyer.

I can however add you name to the next run and will contact you again when they come in in March.

wombatventures wrote:Seat was sitting upside down on the bench for two weeks. Weekends and week nights have disappeared lately.
Got the Drivers ones in Saturday. Fit perfectly work great. I'll post up some pics today, got to retrieve them of my phone.
Excellent job Nils.

Awesome Terry

Great write up by Terry (wombatventures) in this thread - https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=111256

Next batch of 10 pairs ordered and will be landing about the 20th of March,

Prices will be the same, if you are sitting on the fence about getting a some now is the time! register your interest at nilsbirkmann@hotmail.com or SMS me at O400 592 25O

Anyone else who has bought these got any feedback even if you haven't fitted them ❓

Article on Page 32 of Edition #54 of VWMA received today about these Type3 seat cams- on sale in newsagents 4th May 2017 😵😎👍

Been ask to do another run, get them while they are fresh

Repeating here what i posted in the other thread on these cams.
"As an early purchaser of these I'm happy to say they work brilliantly.
They take about an hour to fit, if you don't take 50 photos and spend 20 minutes working out how to get the seat out.
If anyone wants advice on how to fit them or to discuss them then shoot me a pm. I'm sure Bert will say the same.
After 3 years of having the seats set in one position its great to be able to adjust them to suit."

This is the thread that Terry is referring to - https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=111256

As Terry said we are both more than happy to help anyone with fitting these 😎

Nils is putting together another order so be quick to get in and get a pair or even better 2🙄

Treat the passenger as well... !
It's worth it!😁

Gradually getting pictures back into this thread but taking some time as pictures fromothers are too big and then for some reason on editing posts with my smalller pictures it is double posting them 😵‍💫 and not sure why ..... will do the outstanding ones over next couple of day if time permits 🙄

Nils, Put me down for 2 sets on the next run please, Thanks Dave

Menangler wrote:Nils, Put me down for 2 sets on the next run please, Thanks Dave

Dave, have let nils know - you may remember this Type3 which is why it all started

New Batch are in, say what you like for the Chinese. they are efficient😵‍💫

nils wrote:New Batch are in, say what you like for the Chinese. they are efficient😵‍💫

Let's not also forget the quality of the milling done 😎

Bus914 - Hey Jack sent PM re your request for 2 pairs -

Can I order 2 pairs?

Regards
Jack

Hi Jack,

Haven't heard from you and neither has nils since I replied to your previous PM re the 2 pairs of seat adjuster cams.

I have spoken with nils and he has 2 pairs from his last order you can have if you contact him and provide details & pay for them -$100.00 a pair = $200.00 plus postage $10.00 (you'll need to check with him on postage)

Cheers
Bert

Sounds good. Please PM the payment details

Thanks for fielding this Bert,

I have been crazy busy of late if anyone doesn't hear back from me straight away, please email me direct at,

nilsbirkmann@hotmail.com

so that it flashes up on my phone.

Nils has 2 seats (pairs) available out of the last production run - give your Type 3 a Christmas Present and yourself a pair of seats that are easier to adjust and more comfortable 👍

Here we are again!

Another batch will be due to land on my desk in around 2 weeks, Can I please have a quick show of hands of any Aussieveedubbers that are after 1 or 2 pairs? I would hate for some of our long-standing supporters to miss out.

Names I do have are,

Kristof D - 2pair
JDYT3 - 2 pair
Rick W - 1 pair?
Tony R - 2 pair

If I have missed anyone or anyone should be removed from the list please let me know soon. We have 3 Pairs left unspoken for at the moment, but if we act soon we can still up the size of the order if required.

The cost for our US friends will remain the same at $USD75 a pair with a $30 postage to most areas.

While the failing Aussie dollar will mean we are up to $120AU on this side of the pond.

For those not wanting to read 7 pages to get the rundown, here is the Samba add again for the compressed version.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2008828

Hey Nils,
Anything you need me to change in the Samba advert 😵‍💫 ..... no probs to do as try to keep it live 😁

Fossil wrote:Hey Nils,
Anything you need me to change in the Samba advert 😵‍💫 ..... no probs to do as try to keep it live 😁

Hi Bert, sorry I missed your comment on this.

Not at the moment mate, the cost has not changed on the other side of the ocean.
Though I have been asked by the fellows at ISP West to sell the drawings, so I may be washing my hands of this entirely soon. 🤪

nils wrote:

Fossil wrote:Hey Nils,
Anything you need me to change in the Samba advert 😵‍💫 ..... no probs to do as try to keep it live 😁

Hi Bert, sorry I missed your comment on this.

Not at the moment mate, the cost has not changed on the other side of the ocean.
Though I have been asked by the fellows at ISP West to sell the drawings, so I may be washing my hands of this entirely soon. 🤪

Hey nils,
Saw your post re getting out of them which is a fair call.
Was wondering if ISP had ever shown any interest seeing they are a Type3 parts shop - I've used them with some parts I couldn't find here in Oz and also to help out with part numbers.
All the best with negotiations.
cheers & beers,
Bert

Fossil wrote:

nils wrote:

Fossil wrote:Hey Nils,
Anything you need me to change in the Samba advert 😵‍💫 ..... no probs to do as try to keep it live 😁

Hi Bert, sorry I missed your comment on this.

Not at the moment mate, the cost has not changed on the other side of the ocean.
Though I have been asked by the fellows at ISP West to sell the drawings, so I may be washing my hands of this entirely soon. 🤪

Hey nils,
Saw your post re getting out of them which is a fair call.
Was wondering if ISP had ever shown any interest seeing they are a Type3 parts shop - I've used them with some parts I couldn't find here in Oz and also to help out with part numbers.
All the best with negotiations.
cheers & beers,
Bert

My real job is really getting in the way of everything right now and am having to push all my personal projects back again and again. So it is time to prioritize some things, unfortunately that means not doing project and sails on things like this.

Well, the new batch has landed.

For the Aussies that means $120 a pair this time around due to the falling Dollar. (still a really good deal to be honest) and thankyou again to the supporters that have made yet another batch possible.

Any Type 3 Owners out there needing the fix the front seats in the Type 3 👍

great product

pv370 wrote:great product

So many agree but plenty out there not knowing what they've missed out on.

Believe that there is still interest from Type3 Owners ..... nils is/has put enquiries out for another batch 👍