Hi all,
We have got the car running although there are a few problems.
The temp switch is reading 124 degrees as soon as we switch on the computer. It is new and the ecu was tested by microtech this week. This input maxing out seems to not enable us to tune the car from the unit.
It will not idle. There was a leak when we first got it running at the idle up motor...it was idling at 1500rpm. Since that has been corrected it will stall.
It also feels as though it is running on 3 cylinders and has massive hessitation before roughly responding to throttle.
We are slowly trying to eliminate the possibles one by one....although there is no way I know even 30% of the possibles, so any help will be really appreciated.
Matt
[Edited on 22-1-2005 by boof2332]
My suggestion would be to take it to someone who knows what they are doing...
CBB at Penrith do a lot of work with Microtech and then they can tune it on the dyno in about half the time and 100% better than any other method.
CBB
02 4722 9313
there are two options with the EFI cars, use the factory ECU and be able to just put it together and go, no probs.
Or run an aftermarket ECU and get it dyno tuned by someone who is competent at tuning those motors with that ECU. There is no short-cuts, only long-cuts.
Wes -
www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control...
🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.
you need this MATT !
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seagull wrote:you need this MATT !
been up doing a bit of brain washing have we.....
yes and it works Chris
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Hi Matt,
the problem could be the wiring. Did you shorten the wiring or left you all the connectors untouched. If you shortend the wiring the cause could be a wrong diagram. I found two errors in the subaru workshop manual. One causes incorrect temp readings. But maybe only the German version is wrong.
Jörg
[Edited on 22-1-2005 by subaruboxer]
What are you using for the temp sender? a subaru one, or a microtech one? If your using a subaru one, maybe your using the sender for the temp gauge not the ecu temp sender, what resistance is it putting out at room temp?
Sharbuilt Beach buggy with Subaru 2L Turbo
Thunderanch Riot with Subaru 2L Turbo
Manxter with FA20turbo
Click here for wiring loomsCorrect me if i'm wrong...there is a temp sender and a temp sender switch. The switch is the one that we replaced which has the injector style plug.....the other looks like an oil pressure switch with a spade terminal. When we changed it there was no coolant in that part of the motor as we were still bleeding the system. Maybe I should take it out and stick it in some coolant to see if the reading is any different. Thats if the system hasnt bled out that part yet.
We have tried reversing the wires with no change yet.
As soon as we work out these few little hurdles I will be taking it to be tuned properly on the dyno....you are all correct!
Matt
Hi Matt,
I think there are two possible causes for your Temp problem:
1. your gauge is installed wrong
2. your sending unit is faulty
Temperature gauge installation:
a. a 21 red/green wire to the ground plug of the gauge, no ground connection of the gauge to the chassis. And to the watertemperature sensor.
b.white/green wire from thermometer on the engine to the gauge (pick-up plug).
c. plus wire to the gauge(plus plug)
If all this is correct your sending unit is faulty.
boof2332 wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong...there is a temp sender and a temp sender switch. The switch is the one that we replaced which has the injector style plug.....the other looks like an oil pressure switch with a spade terminal. When we changed it there was no coolant in that part of the motor as we were still bleeding the system. Maybe I should take it out and stick it in some coolant to see if the reading is any different. Thats if the system hasnt bled out that part yet.
We have tried reversing the wires with no change yet.
As soon as we work out these few little hurdles I will be taking it to be tuned properly on the dyno....you are all correct!
Matt
Please note if your gauge got a metal body and you bolt it to the dashboard with a metal holder you got a ground connection to the chassis.
[Edited on 23-1-2005 by subaruboxer]
To get your engine to idle try this:
a. as you mentioned it feels like running on 3 cylinders, check spark plug wires and spark plugs for correct gap
b. check for a leak in the fuel injection system, in the intake manifold, in the vacuum hoses and the airfilter
c. last weekend I checked the bug of a friend with EJ 22 and an idle problem, it would run but only if you would hold the revs up or it would stall. A big part for idle is taken by the bypass aircontroll valve. His wiring was shortend and I don t know about yours. Two wires from the bypass aircontroll valve are connected to the ecu. One black an one white on the valve side, black/blue and white/blue at the ecu. They change colours. If you don´ t look close you could think its black to black and white to white. But that was his error.
The correct connection is: white to black/blue and
black to white/black
We changed the two wires and it idles perfect now!
Maybe the colours are different for Australia?
boof2332 wrote:Hi all,
We have got the car running although there are a few problems.
The temp switch is reading 124 degrees as soon as we switch on the computer. It is new and the ecu was tested by microtech this week. This input maxing out seems to not enable us to tune the car from the unit.
It will not idle. There was a leak when we first got it running at the idle up motor...it was idling at 1500rpm. Since that has been corrected it will stall.
It also feels as though it is running on 3 cylinders and has massive hessitation before roughly responding to throttle.
We are slowly trying to eliminate the possibles one by one....although there is no way I know even 30% of the possibles, so any help will be really appreciated.
Matt
[Edited on 22-1-2005 by boof2332]
[Edited on 23-1-2005 by subaruboxer]
Matt,
It could actually be getting that hot if the heater hoses have been blanked off. The heater inlet/outlet pipes need to be connected together on the Subaru motor, even if you aren't using a heater. Probably not your problem, but worth checking anyway.
I'd say go to a Microtech/Subaru guru as the guys suggested above, but it may be worth posting a query to the guy you bought the ECU from or even Microtech themselves.
Hi Matt,
sorry you're having so much hassle. if you're still struggling give me a U2U and I'll give you the number of Anthony Brodski, he's a subbie conversion guru, the electricals are his speciality. If he can't help you with the mircrotech, then the Rigoli Boys at Hoxton Pk would be my next call.
Problem may have been solved regarding the idle and missfire..... seems that the microtech was from a later wrx which has 2 coil pacs not 4. Thus we might be only on 2 cylinders. Will know in a couple of hours when I get over to the car.
Will keep you posted regarding the water temp switch problem.
Matt
Oh,
Jenny- the heater hoses are not blocked off they are joined together.
Pete- Thanks for the offer, if you have a u2u at 12.30 tonight you will know that we have had no sucess.
Subaruboxer- We are running a microtech lt8, so at the moment we havnt got the single sender hooked up to the gauge...it is the switch that tells the microtech (also a sender) that we have replaced and will check again tonight. The idle up motor was where we had our first leak..that is fixed.....I am sure that there might be another small leak somewhere...I will check all plugs etc again tonight...thanks for your help...fingers crossed!
Matt
Go Mattie,Go you good thing.
Mitcl
23 windows ...8 too many!
Just had a look the manual.. There should be 2 variable resistance temperature senders.. they're not switches but people can still refer to them as switches. The temp sender for the ecu should have a resistance of about 2-3.3kOhms @ 20degC, and 270-370Ohms; @ 80degC.
The temp sender for the gauge is heaps different, its something like 100-200Ohms cold and 10Ohms hot... So yeah, if you have these mixed up, you could be feeding 200Ohms to the ecu when its cold which would make it think its above 80degC.
[Edited on 24-1-2005 by ratbug]
Sharbuilt Beach buggy with Subaru 2L Turbo
Thunderanch Riot with Subaru 2L Turbo
Manxter with FA20turbo
Click here for wiring loomsThanks ratbug...I will check it tomorrow.
As for the missfire and inability to idle...it has become aparent that the ignition module is rooted!
Anyone have one????
I will try and get one tomorrow and tomorrow night we will try again..at least we know this problem.
Thanks for all your help guys.
Matt
I wonder how many $ new matt , seagull
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Hi Matt,
when I got my wiring fixed and I turned the the ignition on the watertemperature gauge would show a temp of 125 degrees. The engine wasn t running, I changed the way the gauge was wired. And everything is fine since then. I hope yout get it running right pretty soon. Good luck Matt!!
boof2332 wrote:Oh,
Jenny- the heater hoses are not blocked off they are joined together.
Pete- Thanks for the offer, if you have a u2u at 12.30 tonight you will know that we have had no sucess.
Subaruboxer- We are running a microtech lt8, so at the moment we havnt got the single sender hooked up to the gauge...it is the switch that tells the microtech (also a sender) that we have replaced and will check again tonight. The idle up motor was where we had our first leak..that is fixed.....I am sure that there might be another small leak somewhere...I will check all plugs etc again tonight...thanks for your help...fingers crossed!
Matt
Paul picked me up a module from SSS where we got the motors for $50...checks out O.K on the Multimeter.
Fingers crossed tomorrow.
Once that is solved I will try reversing the water temp sensor.
Matt
I would also bleed up your system to help with the temp sender issue. The other thing you may want to check if you get no joy with the other areas is the timing belt. I have an EJ22 in the shop currently which amoung other issues such as air flow meter backwards, breather lines blocked off, etc had the belt out by two teeth on one cam. Still run, just did it like a bag. From what I have been told though the EJ20 will break stuff it is more than 3 teeth out so this may not be your problem.
What guage are you running ? The VDO guage will not work properly with the Subaru sender.
I am constantly amazed at how mucg abuse these damn subaru's take to stop them running completely.
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx AustraliaThe bleeding issue was our main concern regarding the temp reading as when we changed it there was no coolant in that part of the motor. We did change the timing belt , so I will check that too.....thanks.
All these things will hopefully be sorted tomorrow night when we try once again to get it running properly.
Figure this one out.....
When we first wired up the ecu, the pumps were being earthed even when the computer was off... Thought there was a bad earth in computer ...got it checked and they said o.k. We kept earth to pumps from the computer, just ran and ignition trigger to the relay.......
Tonight I chop the wire to the pumps and earth them to the battery..........and the temp sender goes back to normal range.
The ignition is still playing up although we found an earth shorting out to #3.
Either needs total replacement and starting over, the computer is stuffed or I have the wrong pin diagram for the upgraded software...thats why it tested O.K at Microtech.
Thoughts,
Matt is getting frustrated.
did you ask Microtech if the diagram is correct for the upgrade matt ?
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Got the computer second hand, so who knows what goes where....will ask them to tell me when I take it back on monday...they said it was fine last week.
Matt
If it is screwed shall I get another New microtech or try something different?????Prices???
Hi Matt,
I'm sorry your having problems. I used an ecu called "link" it's an OZ based company although I bought mine here in the States from one of their dealers. It was a great value and I could be more happy with its performance. I had a problem with my ICS when I fist hooked up the ecu and Link helped me figure out what was going on. Anyway Here's a link and I hope this helps you out.
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/link.htm Hope you don't end up parting with the cash for a new ecu.
Good luck!
Bob
Thanks Bob,
I am ripping out all the wiring and starting from scratch tomorrow...would have been easier in the first place looking at it now!
If there are still problems then the ECU could be stuffed in which case I will be searching for an alternative.
Matt
