Quality Speaker/Sub installs in Type 3s

shaginwagin Officially Full-On Dubber

281 posts · joined Feb 2005 · 5 May 2005, 10:28 am

#350634

I want to install a quality sound system into my Square with some 6" Split Speakers and a Subwoofer, but at the same time I don't want to butcher the car OR impact on it's luggage carrrying abilities.

The easiest thing to do would be to install the mid speakers in the doors with the splits on top of the dash (look crappy tho) and have a subwoofer box in the wagon area that I could remove if required.

BUT I'm wondering if I could somehow squeez a sub box under the rear seat. Naturally I couldn't put a big Sub in there, but maybe 1 or 2 quality 8" sub/s

Has anyone installed a sub under the rear seat in a T3?

As for the front stage, I would prefer to install speakers in the firewall area using some pods or build up a craftwood box, but reckon theres not enough space and/or they would be kicked as people got in/out of the car.

Anyone had a go at installing speakers in the firewall ?

Cheers

PurpleT3 Fahrvergnugen

880 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 5 May 2005, 10:41 am

#350647

I was thinking the same thing re sub installation. As mine is a fasty, I don't have the rear cargo area so I was considering the under the seat install. Judging from the amount of space, I reckon you could even fit a 10". I was thinking along the lines of mounting the sub horizontally in a piece of MDF. This way a box is not needed as you use the space under the seat and th e MDF separates the fornt of the sub form the rear. You could only fit one on the pass side as the battery takes up too much space on the drivers side.

Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 May 2005, 11:59 am

#350703

Firstly I'd suggest having a good read through this car audio site:

www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums (especially in the frequently asked qsts/technical section).

I learned a hellofalot there which led me to changing pretty much my entire audio system since I made some ill-informed decisions initially.

Secondly, I have to put a disclaimer out and say that I don't know the intricacies of a type III but I'm sure there are a few similarities to the beetle. Here is a pic of my kick panels:

They are sealed enclosures (for better midrange response rather than an infinite baffle (like open air unsealed) setup) which have been ported (port diameter and length calculated through a box design software via a fellow on the car audio forum for me) to match the woofer thiele-small specification (all sorts of properties of the woofer which most are over my head - but are used to calculate enclosure design). I painted mine but you could carpet them if you were worried about kicking them, and put grills over speakers to protect them.

Re. tweeter positioning, you want to try and get the pathlengths (distance between your ears and the tweeters) of L and R tweeters as close as possible. So mounting them in the dash causes some problems as the sound from R tweeter will hit your ears before the L tweeter due to smaller pathlength - thus affecting the imaging of the system. By keeping them in the kicks the difference in pathlengths is less and would thus give better imaging. If mounting in kicks, try and keep the axis of the woofer and tweeter the same (which I couldn't do unfortunately) - ie. the angle of the tweeter should be same as the angle of the woofer.

If you go to this link, it details the way I built the kick panels:

http://www.netspot4u.com/~manxclub/gallery/album221?page=1

Re. the sub mounting it under the rear seat is possible - you could make a fibreglass base to maximise box volume and use and mdf top (baffle) to mount the sub. The box volume has a significant effect on sub performance though so trying to optimise the volume for the particular sub is critical if you want the best possible response. There are certain subs which have a small basket depth (ie. don't take up much space) if room is limited - no use if you already have a sub of course.

This is just scratching the surface - could go on and on, but I'm happy to try and answer some of the more basic qsts - but would be worthwhile looking at the car audio forum first.

Cheers
Alan

www.dasrestoparts.com.au

Octa veedub recluse

406 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 5 May 2005, 12:22 pm

#350713

hmm.. seems tight to install subs under the seat. As PurpleT3 said, one side is filled with a battery and both sides have heater tube thinguies (forgot the name 🙂 ) And then as Das said there won't be much space left to create a good volume. I am no expert at this, but soemhow it does not make sense to me to put the subs there. If you do show us how you did it in case I venture to do the same. I would rather build a box, that maybe atttaches to the back of the back rest of the rear seat (I hope it makes sense), that way to does not move around when you take a hairpin at 80km/hr getting away form a honda :thumb

'We teach best what we most need to learn'

VW no more... sigh.... well, at least it's a cousin

PurpleT3 Fahrvergnugen

880 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 5 May 2005, 12:55 pm

#350743

OK, I must admit I'm a nuffy when it comes to car audio set ups. I still think that just having stereo is pretty high tech.

I was thinking more along the lines of a very basic, budget installation, but if you want higher quality I guess a sub hanging off a piece of MDF isn't going to cut it. Maybe a free air sub (is that what they call them?) would work OK if you cann't fit a box?

Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 May 2005, 1:49 pm

#350787

Free air would still be okay but the idea with such subs is that you use the boot space as the sub box (in a regular sedan) so the air space in front of the sub (ie. in the cabin) is separated from the air space behind (in the boot). In a type III you won't have that separation.

Don't get me wrong, you could do it and still be happy with the results, but to utilise a free air (infinite baffle) sub optimally you generally want to separate the air space so there is no cancellation of sound waves coming from the front and rear of the sub...hence not as good sound.

I'd suggest to have a think about making a simple box and carpeting it - mdf is cheap, carpet is pretty cheap...just need a few screws and some glue, and a bit of patience and voila. Here is my sub box prior to stretching material over it and fibreglassing:

....and the link to how I made the sub enclosure:
http://www.netspot4u.com/~manxclub/gallery/album151

www.dasrestoparts.com.au

FATBUG Slammed & Awesome Dubber

82 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 5 May 2005, 2:29 pm

#350821

Hey Dasdubber do you frequant on CAA? I have been on there for about 4 years now.
That sub box is well designed. only one problem. It looks like it holds a 15" in the middle and 2 x 12" on either side. I dont see why would would want to run 12's and a 15.
I know people have done it cause they say the 15" gives me low rumbling bass and the 12"s give me punchie bass. Just let me say that is bullshit. I have built so many boxes and its possible to get what you want out of any size woofer.
When i hear these setups they usually sound awful.

Well built though.

shaginwagin Officially Full-On Dubber

281 posts · joined Feb 2005 · 5 May 2005, 2:57 pm

#350837

Thanks for the comments so far :thumb

I have been a member of the caraudioaustralia forums for quite a few years and can concur that its a good source of info (in amongst the rubbish, especially people saying Sony Xplod is awesome gear!!)

I also initially thought that the space under the rear seat on the non battery side was too piddly, however many of the latest and greatest subs only require VERY small enclosures to pack a fair ol wollap - I'll have to have measure up and see what gives (the space under the seats that is)

As for the speaker pods - thats a pretty full on install you have going on there Dasdubber - nice one dude. Alas I don't have the time, money or skills to go to that extreme, but am envious all the same.

I saw a Bazooka Bass tube at Crime Converters the other day - could be another option as they are light weight so easy to move. In my old age I have a knackered back.

Keep the comments coming - someone out there must have tried a sub under the seat

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 May 2005, 3:30 pm

#350850

Must be an optical illusion - it is a 12in sub in the middle and the other holes were for 6x9s. I have since grafted over the 6x9 holes (not necessary when running a sub) so just sticking with the dynaudio front splits and eclipse sub with an amp for each.

I'd say a MDF box behind the rear seat that could be easily removed would be the ticket....just use 16mm mdf so its not too heavy - that would be the simplest and best option in my opinion....but certainly explore the sub under seat option - would be nice and stealth so it doesn't attract unwanted attention from low lifes!

www.dasrestoparts.com.au

penguin ackkkkkk thhhhhpt!

3,383 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 May 2005, 3:55 pm

#350865

Nice speaker pods Das 😎 way 😎!!
You could probably take orders if you tried with those. Was the watsons street works loom you used that good?

As for speakers in my type 3, I am contemplating two spots in my square, on the roof at the rear facing forwards between the two hinges and if not there then possibly in the rear hatch panel. As for a sub... maybe the under seat option looks likely.

'Ah, whatever................'

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 May 2005, 10:57 pm

#351175

Cheers penguin, I'd like to produce the kick panels but don't think I could ever recoup the money required for the time I'd have to outlay so looks like they will be a one off 😉

Just remember you want most of the sound coming from in front of you (like if you were at a concert or watching tv or whatever)....hence rear fill (rear speakers) aren't really necessary unless you have passengers in the rear seat often. Otherwise spend your money on the best pair of splits you can afford for the front.

www.dasrestoparts.com.au

shaginwagin Officially Full-On Dubber

281 posts · joined Feb 2005 · 5 May 2005, 11:42 pm

#351202

Yeah I agree re keeping it simple and totally agree regarding rear fill being a waste of time (unless your gay I spose :P)

The equipment I have includes

front stage - Canton 6" Mid Bass partnered with Alpine Reference Tweeters that have an adjustable crossover.

Sub - I have a nice 12" Soundstream Boxed Sub that works very nicely indeed, but if it turns out it's feasible to mount a Sub under the rear seats, I'll have a crack at it.

Deck - Purchased an Mp3 and Sub Control Pioneer Deck from good 'ol JB

Amps - Currently deliberating on whether to pay repair costs on a couple of Clarion/VNet amps or buy a new one as every single repair UI have ever had fails again not long after

[Edited on 5-5-2005 by shaginwagin]

[Edited on 5-5-2005 by shaginwagin]