Custom Pushrod Project 2006...can you say STRONG?!! 2011 updates soon.

dangerous · 2006-01-27T10:48:07+00:00

I was a little concerned with the close proximity of the pushrod to the tube on my engine, so I did some homework about pushrods. Currently the engine has 3/8" straight 4130 pushrods, and after checking the lift with and without the heavy springs, it seems there is enough flex to lose .035" of the lift. So I have two problems: flex and interference. Problem is that to fix the flex problem will cause more interference. The answer seems to be a tapered pushrod with better heat treatment. This is nothing new, as I have used the Autocraft taper pushrods before but not with these springs(620lbs) and rocker ratio(1.6). Also the Autocraft pushrods are only 5/16" on each end, and in the length I want, the don't begin their taper immediately. And yes, you can buy some pushrods that will work, but you know me. I can make them exactly how I want them, and use the tips that I have already. The material is 1/2" 4130 chrome moly tube with a .156" wall thickness...very strong. Apparently, pushrod stiffness is more important than the weight gain. Some say that pushrod weight, and any weight on the lifter side of the valve train, is not as important to valve control, as weight on the valve and retainer side of the rocker arm. [ Edited on 31-3-2006 by dangerous ] [ Edited on 20-11-2006 by dangerous ]

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 10 May 2011, 7:07 am

#840511

yeah Friday OK, ring first, you know the drill!

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 10 May 2011, 7:14 am

#840512

pete wood wrote:They look awesome. 👍

Got 2 questions...

1. how much do they weigh compared to the usual hipo pushrod?

2. if they don't bend, what else will break?

I just weighed some other pushrods for comparison.
Remembering that
mine are 350g,
stock is 39 grams,
Thin wall 3/8" cromoly 63g,
Thick wall 3/8" 85g,
Autocraft tapered 72g,
CB Manton tapered 107g.

So mine are over 3 times the weight,
thus the reason for the 1000lbs springs.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 · 10 May 2011, 7:27 am

#840516

any way of taking more weight out of them dave?

EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123

HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 · 10 May 2011, 7:45 am

#840518

Did you weigh the pushrods FULL OF OIL? I tried it [many years ago], and was surprised at the results! Because of the weight of the oil, I plugged the holes in the [tapered chrome-moly] pushrods, and oiled the [needle roller] rockers before each race. The oil-surge on corners helped a bit, as it was a circuit car. Never had a problem,

I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 10 May 2011, 4:30 pm

#840558

mactaylor wrote:any way of taking more weight out of them dave?

I am sure I can turn the large diameter down a little,
but for now I will see how they hold up,
and influence the rest of the valve train.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 10 May 2011, 4:32 pm

#840559

HappyDaze wrote:Did you weigh the pushrods FULL OF OIL? I tried it [many years ago], and was surprised at the results! Because of the weight of the oil, I plugged the holes in the [tapered chrome-moly] pushrods, and oiled the [needle roller] rockers before each race. The oil-surge on corners helped a bit, as it was a circuit car. Never had a problem,

I normall plug all the pushrods
and just have one exhaust with a 1mm restricter.

This is to supply oil to the valve springs for much needed cooling.(according to the spring manufacturers)

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

BeetleBug Casual Dubber

22 posts · joined Feb 2010 · 11 May 2011, 9:53 pm

#840747

How do you plan to keep your heads where they should be with that spring pressure?

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 12 May 2011, 8:40 am

#840785

yeah is it just me or do they look toooooo biggggg 😊
If a rocker breaks the push rods will shoot out like a small missile.😊🤪😊
or the extra weight and load will loose HP 🥲

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 12 May 2011, 10:39 am

#840805

ian.mezz wrote:yeah is it just me or do they look toooooo biggggg 😊
If a rocker breaks the push rods will shoot out like a small missile.😊🤪😊
or the extra weight and load will loose HP 🥲

Yes that is correct.😂
Some times you have to sacrifice some things to get reliable goals.
Like money , you have to sacrifice some to make some more.
When I find an aluminium grade that can handle around 600lbs times the rocker ratio of 1.7(1020lbs),
I will be able to run a lighter spring,
and still run the lift(.750") and rpm that I need.
But for now,
these pushrods should handle the 1700lbs that the rocker will transfer back to the pushrod.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 · 12 May 2011, 3:03 pm

#840823

ian.mezz wrote:yeah is it just me or do they look toooooo biggggg 😊
If a rocker breaks the push rods will shoot out like a small missile.

Hey, he's got a name to live up to❗

Dangerous, nothing to worry about, provided that your Public Liability insurance is adequate.😂

I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

BeetleBug Casual Dubber

22 posts · joined Feb 2010 · 12 May 2011, 4:54 pm

#840833

There are many ways to skin a cat and I believe 350 NA hp is possible with our engines with the right combination. Also without having to take the engine apart after every run.

It will be interesting to see the end results.

Best rgs
BB

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 · 12 May 2011, 6:05 pm

#840843

what about two piece pushrods double taper?

EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123

BeetleBug Casual Dubber

22 posts · joined Feb 2010 · 12 May 2011, 6:15 pm

#840845

Or what a about a cam design that makes the job easier? With a incorrect cam design you can use the strongest spring in the world... and still experience problems.

For example: a comparison between Pauter vn011(left) Raptor (middle) and Shawn Geers' wildest grind (right) Which one will make the job easier you think?

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cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 12 May 2011, 8:24 pm

#840863

hhmmmm, middle?????

66brm Seriously Crusin Dubber

140 posts · joined Nov 2009 · 13 May 2011, 5:09 pm

#840970

I'm guessin either geers or pauter, the ramps on the raptor look almost parallel, meaning high valve speed and potential for less control

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 13 May 2011, 5:45 pm

#840983

66brm wrote:I'm guessin either geers or pauter, the ramps on the raptor look almost parallel, meaning high valve speed and potential for less control

🤪 andrew , you have not read much about johanes have you...start searching...:🤓

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 13 May 2011, 8:42 pm

#841012

dangerous wrote:
pete wood wrote:They look awesome. 👍

Got 2 questions...

1. how much do they weigh compared to the usual hipo pushrod?

2. if they don't bend, what else will break?
I just weighed some other pushrods for comparison.
Remembering that
mine are 350g,

Wow...my steak I had for dinner tonight weighs the same as your pushrod.......they certainly are 'meaty' 😂😂

BeetleBug Casual Dubber

22 posts · joined Feb 2010 · 13 May 2011, 8:54 pm

#841014

All the cams was considered for a 2.9l NA street/race engine with MS230 heads that are slightly modified and flows 320cfm in 25" of water with manifolds. Valves are 49.6mm (intake) and 38.6mm. The Raptor will utilize the full potential of the heads. At 8mm lift they flow 205hp, 10mm = 230hp, 12mm = 268hp. Less spring pressure = more power, less heat and more rpms. Sorry for bringing this excellent thread from the topic.

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pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 · 13 May 2011, 9:57 pm

#841023

^ drool.

Johanes, if I ever get to put together a serious ACVW motor, it will be full of your parts. 😏

"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

BeetleBug Casual Dubber

22 posts · joined Feb 2010 · 18 May 2011, 4:09 pm

#841693

OBS OBS:

Please note that I`m not Johannes and I`m not involved in his company JPM (Johannes Persson Motorsport) in any way. I am however a firm believer in what he is doing and making and I`m using his products in my own builds.

Best rgs
BB

dragvw2180 Officially Full-On Dubber

393 posts · joined May 2006 · 21 May 2011, 3:53 am

#842026

The JPM heads are a really nice update of the CE or Superflow heads and for the street I cannot think of a nicer head, but for what Dave is doing I think he has superior heads. On his engine cooling is not an important factor so the cooling fins they added are not a benifit. Also I would question the stiffness of the casting when bored out for the 101 mm cylinders and the compression , let alone adding 6 studs to them. In order to get the airflow Dave is looking for would require alot of welding and reshaping of the ports also. After reading all the posts Dave has written and enjoying them, I know he put alot of thought into everything he does. The only thing I am suprised about is that he has not built his own billet heads yet, but these are close. Mike

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE All people have the right to stupidity but some abuse the pr

2,534 posts · joined Mar 2007 · 21 May 2011, 10:38 am

#842046

Don't put naughty thoughts in his head lol

ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE

Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!

reub VWRX is gone...

2,054 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 21 May 2011, 11:28 am

#842049

HAPPY BIRTHDAY to DAVE❗

Reub

Dak-A-Tak Volksie Pete

1,381 posts · joined Jan 2004 · 21 May 2011, 11:55 am

#842052

Are Facebook , working on your heads will be a fine Birthday ( have good-one mate) . Doing a wally with that facebook pic of
yourself 🙅

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 21 May 2011, 1:34 pm

#842060

Hippo Birdee Big D...

FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/