heater setup for an EJ motor? tap installed and all good.

pete wood · 16 Jun 2006, 1:16 pm

I know this has been talked about before, but I'll be damned if I can find the thread. And yes, I did a search.

After driving round last night in the buggy, I'm sick of freezing, so I want to hook up my heater. How does the heater circuit on an Ej series motor work?

Do run the heater hoses to a one way valve (open = heater on/ closed = heater off)?
Or do I need a 2 way valve (open = heater on/closed = water straight back to the motor)?

Any ideas where to pick up such a valve?

What are other people doing?

[ Edited on 10-11-06 by pete wood ]

gull · 16 Jun 2006, 1:30 pm

Get a rear mount unit from a 45 series troop carier ( toyota 4x4 ) 1981 >

there good I post a photo of mine seagull

GeorgeL · 16 Jun 2006, 2:56 pm

pete wood wrote:I know this has been talked about before, but I'll be damned if I can find the thread. And yes, I did a search.

After driving round last night in the buggy, I'm sick of freezing, so I want to hook up my heater. How does the heater circuit on an Ej series motor work?

Do run the heater hoses to a one way valve (open = heater on/ closed = heater off)?
Or do I need a 2 way valve (open = heater on/closed = water straight back to the motor)?

Any ideas where to pick up such a valve?

What are other people doing?

The heater circuit has to flow at all times for the thermostat to work properly.

Problem is, if the heater cools the coolant too much the thermostat doesn't open, causing the engine to overheat. This is a problem in vanagons and buses as they need a lot more heating than a stock Subaru.

Here is an alternate approach from the Great White North:

The new nipple takes a bypass hose directly from the coolant outlet. It supplies hot engine coolent directly to the sensing end of the thermostat at all times. The heater outputs to the original nipple on the water pump. The spacer moves the thermostat a bit away from the heater return, preventing the cold water from the heater return from keeping the thermostat closed.

If you use this setup, you just need a simple valve on the heater to shut it off. This won't affect the bypass that is open all the time.

The whole story is here:

http://www.subaruvanagon.com/tom/Thermostat%20housingk.htm

George

Baja Wes · 16 Jun 2006, 3:04 pm

The easiest option is to not use a valve at all. Why do you want a valve?

I should probably point out that I run a mazda engine, not a subaru, so I am not subject to all subaru's weird quirks. My engine doesn't care if you disconnect the VSS, it doesn't care if you block the heater lines, it doesn't hydraulic itself if you have a leaky injector and it doesn't need a valve in the heater line. 😉

[ Edited on 16-6-2006 by Baja Wes ]

pete wood · 16 Jun 2006, 3:39 pm

thanx Wez, nice to see you are proud of your engine...:o

What about something like this.

The motor is on the left, the heater unit is on the right.

The red and blue lines are the heater hoses. basically what I am thinking to to put a paralell hose across the two so that it can flow all the time. Then further down the hot line (where the X is) I could put a valve to turn the heater on or off.

And yes, I need a valve. The heater unit is also an Aircon unit so I'd like to be able to turn the heater off when I have the aircon hooked up later on.

BTW, both my heater hoses poke out the back of the motor. I'm not sure if they're hooked up to the thermostat.

[ Edited on 16-6-06 by pete wood ]

Baja Wes · 16 Jun 2006, 4:56 pm

Pete, you won't get much flow with that set-up. The water would much rather go through your bypass the whole time rather than go through the heater and back.

You might have more luck with your valve in the bypass line and nothing in the heater line.

Do subaru's need a valve to turn the heater off? or is your heater / AC unit from something else, in which case did it have a valve in the line?

My mazda has the AC and heater in one unit (roughly speaking), but internal flaps just let the air bypass one or the other, or do a mixture combination of the two streams. I guess you don't have that sort of set-up.

pete wood · 16 Jun 2006, 5:32 pm

Wes, the unit may have a valve in it. but it definitely doesn't have the flap thingos your mazda thing does. I'll try and find a pic of it.

Also, how about this as a solution to the paralell hose flow problem, I make it out of smaller sized hose (say half the standard setup) so when I open the main heater hoses it will take the easiest path and go to the larger heater.

ricola · 16 Jun 2006, 6:41 pm

Pete,

I used the same circuit as you drew but without the valve in my speedster and had no problems at all getting heat, it was all in the same diameter pipe too.
I'd be interested to hear how you plan to set up the aircon!

Rich

RENNWAGEN · 16 Jun 2006, 7:34 pm

Why not put a three way valve at the bypass junction to direct the water down one hose while closing off the other.

shaihulud · 16 Jun 2006, 8:05 pm

What about taking the hot water (dihydrogen monoxide) for the heater, from the pipe to the radiator, after the thermostat. What would happen is that in winter you would increase the cooling ability of the radiator and the thermostat would control the temperature of the water for you.

I have lagged the supply pipe from the rear to the front of my SR but not the return pipe. They are fitted touching side by side all the way. I am hoping that I will get very hot water to the heater, and a bit more cooling which I hope won't matter on the return and that the feed pipe will not lose too much heat to the return pipe. Ther radiators will be in the rear.

As a matter of interest. I have noted that when some people fit the radiator in the front of their buggy/beetle/van that they have the supply and return lines close enough to each other for them to transfer heat to each other. On a very hot day that could cause problems. The solution is to lag the supply pipe or to keep the pipes well apart.

pete wood · 17 Jun 2006, 4:36 pm

I bought the unit as an after market jobbie. It was $300 about 4 years back. It was the narrowest one I could find and it goes under the dash on the passenger side. The mounts are there, all I have to do is run the water lines.

As you can see from the pics of the rear, the water connections are on the left and the air con connectors are on the right. You only need to hook up two wire and and earth to get it to run, but I'm not sure exactly what the two wires are.

Looking at the front controls, there is one for fan speed (3 settings) and another for temp, although I don't know it it controls heat as well as cold, from the sticker, I would say not. Hence my questions about valves.

[ Edited on 17-6-06 by pete wood ]

pete wood · 17 Jun 2006, 4:43 pm

Ricola, you wanted to know how I was going to run air con. Here's how.

Below is a pic of thecondensor I bought when I bought my radiator. My radiator setup was fabbed up with this in mind. The condensor bolts in front of the rad in the rear radiator mounts and I have the original Subaru aircon pump that came with the motor. I have a mate who is a friggie, so literally all I have to do is give the pump a look over, run the gas lines and hook it all up.

pete wood · 18 Jun 2006, 1:51 pm

so what do you all think, where should the valve go?

ratbug · 18 Jun 2006, 7:05 pm

You sure that temperature control doesnt move an internal flap inside the unit controlling how much air goes through the heater core? This is how most cars work, with the heater core constantly hot and the hot/cold knob controlling how much air goes through the core or bypasses it. With air con the compressor is turned on and off to keep the evaporator to just above 0degC or if you have economy mode, maybe 10degC.
I'm guessing the other wire is the thermistor or thermostat sensor for the evaproator.
Try turning the heater control up and down quickly and see if you can hear any flaps moving.

MickH · 18 Jun 2006, 7:26 pm

The other wire is probably for the compressor on/off. Will be installing a similar unit to my Manx towards the end of the year,but cooling only.Only sooks have heaters😁🙂 Pete..make sure the compressor flows enough for the unit to operate correctly. The EJ compressor in my ute doesn't flow enough for the unit to cool to it's full potential.:blah

pete wood · 18 Jun 2006, 11:42 pm

I cant see an flaps or anything inside.

there is one curious thing, when you turn the temp knob round to certain point you hear some sort of switch turn on or something. i guessed that was the aircon switch myself, what do you reckon?

I stilll think there needs to be a valve of some sort.

mick (yes I'm biting), i can cope with most stuff, but 3deg whether in still air means freezing winds at 60km/h, and i don't have much hair. so I guess you can call me a sook.

did i read somewhere else that you're selling your manx?

MickH · 19 Jun 2006, 8:57 am

pete wood wrote:did i read somewhere else that you're selling your manx?

NO

mackaymanx · 19 Jun 2006, 9:09 am

Rick Collins had his up for sale, as far as I know it still is (on http://buggyadventures.com.au/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=532 )

Baja Wes · 19 Jun 2006, 9:24 am

Pete,

If I were you I'd pull that unit apart and look inside of it. It must have an internal flap for the temperature control, otherwise what else would the temperature control dial do? - There is a small possibility that unit has a valve in the water line inside the unit, and that is what the temperature knob is connected to. And if that is the case you better pull it apart and find out.

I don't think you need a valve in the water lines. As others have said, normal cars don't have valves in the heater lines.

[ Edited on 18-6-2006 by Baja Wes ]

pete wood · 19 Jun 2006, 9:44 am

yeah, maybe I'll have a go at contacting the dealer again first.

MickH · 19 Jun 2006, 10:00 am

The temperature control knob is connected to a thermostat which controls the temperature of the airconditioner but cycling the compressor.The "click" when you turn the knob is the thermostatic switch engaging/disengaging the compressor,which one of the wires out the back of the unit will have to connect to.You said you had 3 wires,one of these needs to go to your compressor to turn it on and off.The others will be power and most likely an earth wire.From memory the black wire should go to your compressor.i agree with Wes.Just take the cover off and have a look.They are VERY simple units.

[ Edited on 19-6-06 by Mick H ]

pete wood · 19 Jun 2006, 10:11 am

just got off the phone with the distributor. there is no valve, just a core. I need a valve.

ok, what sort of valve do you think would do the trick?

MikeM · 19 Jun 2006, 11:07 am

A HJ holden has a 3 way heater tap. (or valve as you call it)

Baja Wes · 19 Jun 2006, 11:33 am

MikeM wrote:A HJ holden has a 3 way heater tap. (or valve as you call it)

So it does;
from http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au
Heater tap, 3 way cable type ea....$27.50 ea
Heater tap - HQ/HZ - 2 way cable type ea....$18.15 ea

or $28 on ebay;
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HEATER-VALVE-WATER-3-WAY-CABLE-TYPE-HQ-WB-NOS_W0QQitemZ4651084543QQcategoryZ36613QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

pete wood · 19 Jun 2006, 12:20 pm

I was thinking of something a bit more agricultural than that, but I spose that would do the trick. how would you setup the cable? Where would I find one long enough?

Baja Wes · 19 Jun 2006, 12:37 pm

You can get cables custom made by any decent motorcycle shop. A push-bike shop could do the same but the motorcycle cables are obviously a lot stronger. They both buy the outers and the inners seperately in huge lengths and cut what they need.

And I guess it depends on how often you think you will be switching between the heater and the air con. You might be happy enough to lean into the rear of the car and manually switch the valve every now and again.

pete wood · 19 Jun 2006, 1:42 pm

didn't think of that, maybe it would end up like a summer/winter switch. hot for winter, cool for the summer.

but I don't think my arm is long enough to lean into the back of the car, so it's that or some sort of cable setup.

MickH · 19 Jun 2006, 1:53 pm

If it was me i'd just have it switched on during winter and turn it off when it isn't too cool/head doesn't freeze anymore.I wouldn't bother with the cable set up.It's not like you live in Melbourne.:thumb

helbus · 19 Jun 2006, 8:34 pm

I do. :repuke

MickH · 19 Jun 2006, 8:56 pm

Helbus wrote:I do. :repuke

😂😂😂🤪😵‍💫😂 But your car has a lid Helbus:P