filler tank for car under rad setup?

baybuscamperkid prince of insufficient light, ruler of heck

4,316 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 Jul 2006, 4:44 pm

#510004

hoping my bus will once again be roadbound very soon, have just been sorting out the finer details. i am setting up 2 small rads under the car, very similar to Helbus or Customoffroads setups. one of my rads has a small breather/overflow outlet in the rad and i was thinking of using this to keep the radiators topped up, running the hose up and into a container inside the car. will this work fine?
otherwise i just scored a welded water tank from a V12 Jag which has smallish hoses coming from it and i am thinking about tapping some connections into the thermostat cover where the upper rad hose connects and attaching the tank into there. would that be a better option? would it be secure enough to tap some fittings in (i think it is aluminium or alloy the bit that i would be tapping into) or would i have to get them welded/brazed on?

[ Edited on 11-7-2006 by baybuscamperkid ]

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helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 11 Jul 2006, 8:37 pm

#510101

I would say ideally you would want hoses with at least 5/8" internal diameter like heater hoses. The header tank in most cars has only one hose to it with a size like that, and then an overflow tank as well. If the tank you have is aluminium, then it has to be TIG welded to attach or close off holes. Cheap header tanks can be found in plastic from Pick Pay n Go in Ringwood off all sorts of cars, like 90's Falcons.

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baybuscamperkid prince of insufficient light, ruler of heck

4,316 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 Jul 2006, 8:42 pm

#510103

ok, just re-thinking a little, i think i have come up with the right solution. use the breather on the radiator, hook that up to the lower fitting on the tank that i have and mount the tank so that its middle is inline with the top of the engine, then fit a small line to the thermostat housing on the engine to act as a breather to expel any air from the top of the engine.
how does that sound?

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helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 11 Jul 2006, 9:45 pm

#510144

The breather on the radiator is for overflow, not header tank work.

A header tank is designed specifically to be the highest fill point on the system, allow air bubbles to rise to it, and be permenantly connected and pressurised with the radiator, that is why they have the actual radiator cap on them.

An overflow is what is connected to the small pipe next to the radiator cap. It is only used for expansion of fluid when the radiator is hot, and will allow return of the fluid as the radiator cools.

Hope that helps, and sorry if am misunderstanding what you have, as I have no pics.

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baybuscamperkid prince of insufficient light, ruler of heck

4,316 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 12 Jul 2006, 10:18 am

#510304

no thats fine, helps alot thanks peter, was hoping to use a more unconventional method (had thought the pressure from the header tank attached to the radiator might be enough to push the air bubbles out through a breather at the highest point - the thermostat housing where the top rad hose attaches)
cheers

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GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 16 Jul 2006, 8:43 am

#511825

baybuscamperkid wrote:no thats fine, helps alot thanks peter, was hoping to use a more unconventional method (had thought the pressure from the header tank attached to the radiator might be enough to push the air bubbles out through a breather at the highest point - the thermostat housing where the top rad hose attaches)
cheers

Pressure won't push bubbles in any particular direction. Gravity dictates that they move upward, so use that principal to your advantage.

I really like Peter's flowthrough setup and I'll probably copy it on my bus. The only change I'm contemplating is going to a more vertical orientation to accommodate my type 1 engine bay.

The beauty of the flowthrough setup is that there is no question that the bubbles will find the header tank. Other setups that tee into the main coolant lines increase the chance that bubbles will be entrained in the coolant and whisked past the header tank. The other nice thing about Peter's setup is that it makes using the stock Subaru coolant outlet a snap!

George

ElusiveStranger Officially Full-On Dubber

330 posts · joined May 2006 · 16 Jul 2006, 12:11 pm

#511860

GeorgeL wrote:The beauty of the flowthrough setup is that there is no question that the bubbles will find the header tank. Other setups that tee into the main coolant lines increase the chance that bubbles will be entrained in the coolant and whisked past the header tank. The other nice thing about Peter's setup is that it makes using the stock Subaru coolant outlet a snap!

George

Grrr, I thought this yesterday afternoon after I fitted my newly reversed manifold avec 'burp tank' feeder!

gerrelt Slammed & Awesome Dubber

88 posts · joined May 2005 · 17 Jul 2006, 4:03 am

#512126

GeorgeL wrote:The beauty of the flowthrough setup is that there is no question that the bubbles will find the header tank. Other setups that tee into the main coolant lines increase the chance that bubbles will be entrained in the coolant and whisked past the header tank. The other nice thing about Peter's setup is that it makes using the stock Subaru coolant outlet a snap!

George

Hi George,
Can you (or anybody else on this forum) tell me which cars use a flowthrough tank? Prefferrable cars that are (were) sold in Europe...

Greetings,
Gerrelt.

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 17 Jul 2006, 9:58 am

#512162

gerrelt wrote:
GeorgeL wrote:The beauty of the flowthrough setup is that there is no question that the bubbles will find the header tank. Other setups that tee into the main coolant lines increase the chance that bubbles will be entrained in the coolant and whisked past the header tank. The other nice thing about Peter's setup is that it makes using the stock Subaru coolant outlet a snap!

George
Hi George,
Can you (or anybody else on this forum) tell me which cars use a flowthrough tank? Prefferrable cars that are (were) sold in Europe...

I would love to know myself! I'm in the US and haven't seen any stock flow-through header tanks. My limited experience with heater-line header tanks (on Jeep Cherokees) has not been pleasant.

I'm pretty much resigned to fabricating my own tank or having one made up by a radiator shop.

gerrelt Slammed & Awesome Dubber

88 posts · joined May 2005 · 17 Jul 2006, 8:40 pm

#512389

I browsed through our (dutch) classifieds site, and there are quite a bit of people trying to sell filler tanks (which I think will be difficult to sell..).
I haven't seen any manufacturer that used a flow through filler tank.

What would be the reason they aren't used? I think/hope it's because of the location car manufactures want for their tanks. Normally the tank is placed on the side of the engine compartment while the coolant hoses are somewhere in the front.

It will be difficult to find a car with a flow-through tank, because almost all of the engine compartments have the same setup. Maybe if a car has a rear or mid-engine setup, it will make sense to use a flow through tank.
So....T3 bus? Toyota MR2? Old rear engined Skoda's ? Busses/vans that use an under-car radiator?

[ Edited on 17/7/2006 by gerrelt ]

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 17 Jul 2006, 9:03 pm

#512417

The only thing I would do differently is to have the outlet of the header tank at the bottom also. Certainly no problems with filling it up. I just filled it once, ran hot until thermostat opened, then topped up. There was no problems filling and refilling to get air bubbles out.

Not really that expensive to get made up in aluminium.

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