hi everyone. I am very new at this but i was hoping to get some help. I love the idea of a baja but i know nothing about car or anything. all i know is that i love the idea of a cheetah kit (but i don't know where to go to get one) and slowly work my way around to build a baja. What beetle model would be best to start of with? i heard superbugs were a big nono! please help! thanks
sinecure ·
Search this forum for baja, and be prepared to spend a lot of time reading!
bajachris88 ·
K, will give a basic rundown Lol, alot of people told me alot of things about em cause i'm a noob too, so its only fair i do the same and explain for ya! :P
What beetle model to use:
Everything pre 70s will work out great, cause it all involves torsion bar, and NO STRUTS!. HOWEVER, make sure that later models DO NOT have Mcpherson strut suspension (that is found on the super bugs). The rest have torsion bar suspension, which not only makes the wheel go up and down, but also around, which inturn makes the 'shock' of a bump less painful on the car. Struts however, only go up and down, not backwards and get a far extra pounding from offroad bumps. Not only does this kill the struts, they are also expensive to replace.
For all other bugs, look for torsion bar suspension, preferably IRS rather than swing axel in the rear (IRS may have more bits to go wrong, but allows for better control and vehicle stability as it doesn't have as much camber play as say a swing axel.
Now there is quiet long debates about the front end of a bug (suspension). Without having struts, ur looking at either a King and Link front beam suspension, or Ball joint. King and link is said to have more suspension travel, but apparently they can screw up more often or something... Big debate, that pretty much ends in a way where each type, whether it be k&L or BJ, they both do the job to an appropriate standard, and both are used by pros.
Most bug models have all drum brakes on EVERY wheel, cept some of the 1500 series bugs (from like late 67/68 to 71 or something) have disks on the front beam (if semi auto, which also had IRS, while all other 1500 series bugs, (NON SEMI AUTO) had swingaxel). 71' and later had disk brakes on front too, and IRS! (drums still on rear, but that is when McPherson strut came out too) Apparently in 1974 i think it was, or was it 76? THe bugs went back to Ball joint torsion bar front beams, and had the IRS suspension, and disk brake front end. They are the BEST pans to use, cause otherwise the mods u look at doing to make it have those features cost more than a 74/76 bug itself....
1500 series bugs are said to be the strongest outta the lot (And still common compared to say the 74or76 or wateva it was.. as u can see from this, the main reason of choice lies in the suspension type more than anything. Its one of those very important choices for offroad that can be very beneficial, if ur suspension choices a re selected correctly. ANY suspension setup will do u alright with no trubs, AS LONG as its not MCPHERSON STRUT!
HOWEVER! do be aware, that if u get a 70s or earlier bug for bajaing' its going to be easier for you to do mods on it (cause it is said to be PRE-ADRS [Australian design rules]. which are just a set of engineering and vehicle standards that make it harder to register and comply/certify a vehicle)
Where to get Cheetah Kits:
www.customoffroad.com.au has them... although their price has hiked by like $200 over the last 12 months... other than that.. there is:
Other than that, U CAN! get a VERY good condition 2nd hand kit from $150 to $500... just depends how lucky u are in regards to getting a good price, BUT THERE ARE a heap out there just lying around. Even if it ain't in perfect nick, its fibre glass, spend a few days glassing/sanding etc, good as new.
Just go into the Want To Buy Parts section in this forum, and put up a thread, saying u want to buy a cheetah baja kit (Specify that it is also a wide eyed baja kit in ur title too!)
Other Considerations:
Other considerations in regards to beetle models include that the 1500 series and later have collapsible steering wheel columns, a 1.5 ltr engine and are 12 volt. Earlier model bugs (67' and earlier) have 1300, and 1200 ltr engines and if stock, are 6 Volt rather than 12volt. + purists and can rank if its a pre-60s bug getting bajaed Lol. The super bugs have 1.6ltr engines that can be engine swapped with say the 1500 series (1.5 ltr), just unbolt, and rebolt the other one in, they are interchangable. however, putting a 1.6ltr into a 67' and earlier is a little more work, as the bell housing in the gearbox WONT fit the 12v flywheel, so u will have to ground out the bell housing, or swap flywheels over.
Now... please everyone, if there is something wrong, please tell me, i dont' wanna give wrong info away, but I hope this does help.
I been doing aaalllloooottt of research over the past 12 months on this, my project is out the back yard, lol.
Learner ·
Thanks for the tip! So fom my understanding i'll be better off getting a 1500 model... so let's go car hunting!!! this is exciting
Learner ·
I was just wondering... anyone in melbourne area? it's been hard for me to find anything about bajas here in melb i'd just liek to see one
bajachris88 ·
good move, 1500s have a good rep. Just remember the manual transmission ones have swing axel and ball joint, + all drums, but the semi auto 1500 has IRS, balljoint and disk brake front end...
sinecure ·
Looking for another convert to the Semi Auto Baja side, eh Chris 😉
sinecure wrote:Looking for another convert to the Semi Auto Baja side, eh Chris 😉
Lol, slowly trying to get an army against those purists 😂
Baja Wes ·
cheetah kit is the best, although I'm biased 🙂
It has the widest guards, and their shape looks right.
Heaps of kits out there have smaller weak flimsy guards and generally don't look right.
Staying pre-72 will work out better if you want to modify it (from a legal modification point of view).
Easiest option is to buy a baja that already has the conversion papers and everything for it.
aussiebaja ·
have a look here and be prepared for a great read ,this is the best place ive found if i need anything {offroadvw.net-baja wes }
Learner ·
That's mad thanks peeps. altough i still find it hard to get anything within vic. seemes like it's a NSW or QLD thing. nOh and also i was told by some other guy that semi auto is not the best for bajas? i'm getting confused. ist it more a preferance thing or a technical. (for me preferably i like to drive manuals but if the build is different i guess i can go semi)
Anthiron ·
semi auto gearboxes arent good for bajas no.
but if u can get a semi auto and convert it to manual transmission.
this gives you a balljoint front IRS rear bug which is perfect for a baja.
semi autos had IRS this is the good thing about them. just need to weld in a clutch tube and change gearbox.
bajachris88 ·
Yup, semi auto pan with manual conversion gets u the best deal... well i only eva heard this from people who have heard from other people... i don't know anyone who has had a semi auto baja directly... so gonna give it a go and see how she runs, not simply outta that mystery, but outta financial reasons Lol. In theory, they aren't special (semi autos) cause they have exactly the same gears as a manual EXCEPT 1st gear, Cause it starts on 2nd. But... in theory yet again, the torque convertor brings about more 'torque' by being able to spin faster than the gear box easily cause of the science behind the torque convertor and vacuum/pressure created by the atf fluid. (cause engine isn't directly moving any cogs etc. in the gearbox). So am gonna find out and be the MYTH buster so to speak 😂
I got a workshop manual that describes overhaulling a gearbox... if the semi auto proves a pain, am gonna play with the gear ratios i rekon 😀 Next biggest thing after getting the 'thing' on the road. If i take out the semi auto to do that, either way, if i screw it by not overhauling correctly, i go manual, if not, i put it back in with different gears.
MISS VDUB ·
So in other words Chris will be looking for a manual gearbox.
-Staggers.
bajachris88 ·
trust me, its tempting... stupid atf plumbin...
Plenty extra stuff u gotta muck around with when it comes to a semi auto, but so far, the concept is kool. mention semi auto to any common bommodore luving thug, and they scatch there head in interest and a slight display of wtf. 😂 This what i luv bout it!
MISS VDUB ·
Apparently in 1974 i think it was, or was it 76? THe bugs went back to Ball joint torsion bar front beams, and had the IRS suspension, and disk brake front end. They are the BEST pans to use.
Definately NOT the best. (Think ADR's people)
-Staggers.
bajachris88 ·
well, a semi auto is just like a manual style transmission, just without the clutch pedal and clutch slipping. (if the clutch in the semi auto is slipping, would be VERY worried!, cause would needadjustment..)
But its just a matter of adjusting the gearing inside to make it appropriate for offroad use, if it really is a problem. but i would really like to get an opinion from a semi auto baja owner, cause its all word of mouth and a myth really, and i'm sure they are right, but the concept of the torque convertor brings around some doubt in my mind that it should be Alright to some degree. Only 1 way to find out!
Learner ·
maybe i should just wait untuil the myth is resolved Let me know heheh not that i don't wan to do the work myself but being new at this seems too chalanging for me
Learner ·
I guess the next step is "what's legal and what's not!" Again i'm getting different answers. do you guys think it's different from states to states?
bajachris88 ·
Some states can interpret and be more restrictive towards the rules etc.
Yeah, can wait till i solve the mystery, lol. might be a while, but the IRS, balljoint and disk brake front ends of the semi auto pan make it Great for offroading, cheaper to have it that way then pay for mods to make a k&l swinger pan equivalent.
The next step IS to look into that. Yet again, it can be a case of 'word of mouth' and more a chinese whispers as to wats legal or not. But best bet is to start a thread in this forum about what legal questions u want to ask, and the majorities opinion would 99% of the time be correct.
bajachris88 ·
When it comes to legalities, in regards to baja kits, its just a matter of getting a blue plate for your kit conversion u put on the body. Simply just a matter of seeing an engineer.
My recommendation would be Stephen Blackburn, he professionalises in automotive trade training and assessment, buyers vehicle inspections, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY Modification blue plates.
+ HE OWNS A VOLKSWAGEN AND IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH THEM. Going to an engineer with no past experience in dubs is a BIG risk, i personally rekon.
his mob: 0413 005 387, Office: (07) 3848 4225, or better off, email him at: steveblackburn@bigpond.com, and request some information to either be emailed or posted out perhaps, or just ask in an email ur interested in doing a baja, what kinda legalities you would be looking at. hes a pro, and will be giving you DIRECT advice from the rule books.
Baja Wes ·
I think a semi-auto will cook the transmission fluid offroad.
You will likely have the problem that the torque converter tries to fully engage the motor at a low rpm, and at this low rpm the engine won't have the power to push the car up the hill.
This will be worse on a baja than a standard semi-auto beetle for two reasons. 1- a standard beetle rarely has to drive up, or start off on 30-35 degree hills, and 2 - a baja version has bigger tyres that makes the gearing even higher than it already is.
To get around the problem you'd need a more powerful motor, and to modify the torque converter for a higher "stall" rpm. Both of these mods make the semi-auto user-unfriendly. Even mild engine mods can change the engine vacuum behaviour enough to change how the vacuum operated clutch behaves.
A guy in the manxclub had a buggy with a type auto (full auto) and a clapped out vw engine. With the tall tyres it didn't have the power to reverse in sand. The torque converter was trying to full engage the engine at a low rpm, where it had no power. I think he had the engine rebuilt and now it can reverse ok, but it's a sign of the problems you'd have with the very tall gearing of the semi-auto.
hopefully wes will be there to drag my sorry ass outta the sand HAHA!
was thinking for a sec that the pressure of the atf fluid in the torque convertor would be pretty high, and things may need to be 'boosted' up a bit, especially with a slow moving car and a fast turning engine...
[ Edited on 30/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]
Baja Wes ·
bajachris88 wrote:When it comes to legalities, in regards to baja kits, its just a matter of getting a blue plate for your kit conversion u put on the body. Simply just a matter of seeing an engineer.
Unfortunately that info is incorrect. Only QLD has blue plates as such.
But even in QLD a Baja Conversion can not be approved with a blue plate, this is because there is no modification code for a Baja Conversion. Blue plates are only used for modifications under a certain code (LA - engine, LB - transmission etc).
In QLD you actually have to take the car to a QLD transport inspection station, they inspect the car and give you a stamped certificate. Technically you are supposed to fill out a modification approval form before starting the modifications.
bajachris88 ·
is there any major issues we should watch out for when we have the baja kit fitted? Any major worries that we should make sure are corrected when we fit the kit?
Baja Wes ·
one of my friends had his done a few years ago, and when he applied to have it done they sent him a check list of things they want to see.
Most of these are for safety and to meet ADR's.
They want big washers used on the bolts holding the guards on, they like it if they have rubber behind the washer too but I don't think it's a must have.
They want rear mud flaps, full width engine cage and full width front bumper. If made from pipe, the pipe must be capped (no sharp edges).
Cage needs mesh to keep unwanted hands from contacting the hot exhaust or sticking fingers in pulleys.
All common sense kinda stuff.
bajachris88 ·
can u get away without having a bumper bar?
The nude end of the bug eyed is nice, although not necessarily practical.
By the way, thanx for this info ur sharing, i neva thought about having washers, smart move to prevent cracking though in the guards
Anthiron ·
no u cant
bajachris88 ·
bummer 🙁, ah well. i got the front bar anyways...
would rather be hind by a fibreglass nose than a steel bull bar. but on the bright side, will keep the fibreglass and Roos apart.
cheers nick
Learner ·
CAn people pleae post pictures of their baja for inspiration. I rekon that would help me heeps and new comers aswell
For what i have seen so far, WEs's and that blue one above are the best looking i've seen thanx for the inspiration!!! also i can only find 1971-72 1500 beetles how's that or does it make it more difficult for me? i know i've been told to get the pre 70's models but they come and go and in melbourne it's next to impossible. unless some 1 knows of a place?
aussiebaja ·
the rules are different from state to state,have a look on rta web site or give them a ring in newcastle ,dont know the no off hand but there good over the phone ,or you could just contact a engineer ,what do you think guys ,that about right
Baja Wes ·
he's in Melbourne so there's no point talking to the RTA :thumb
The best advise I can offer is to get " Baja Bugs and Buggies" by Jeff Hibbard. It is a great book, you will feel like an expert after reading it.
Learner ·
yes indeed i have heard of it so oftn just hadn't have the time to check it out.
Learner ·
I was also wondering are Convertibles also ok to Baja? would i have problems with it to put it on the road? I have seen some beautiful ones wich reall could look nice as baja aswell
5lam ·
Personally I'd go for an early bug....mine is a 61....Nothin wrong with swing axle, unless you want a serious offroader, and you could always convert the swing axle pan to IRS at a later date if you wanted to.
THUDKNUCKLE ·
If you want any pics of a baja bug or info on a few mods feel free to take a look at my msn group website.. link is below
What about a convertable Will i get any problems with them? i mean if i roll over i'll probably b in big trouble unless i weld i a roll bar or whatever the thing is called
shaihulud ·
Learner. A convertible Baja would be very cool. but if you Baja a genuine Beetle Cabriolet you could get lots of flack for ruining a cabriolet.
Get an already converted and registered as such after market convertible and then Baja it.
PLEASE, PLEASE ,PLEASE, REMEMBER THIS.
BAJA IS CORRECTLY PRONOUNCED BARHAR NOT BARJAR.
It is a Spanish/Mexican word and in Spanish J is pronounced H or in not pronounced at all. So the man's name Juan is pronounced Wahn not Jewahn.
Learner ·
yeah it was just an idea as all vw i could find were convertibles. anyway i think i did find one with a hard top now.
Learner ·
ok well i'm a week from buying a beetle 1969 1500 i'm excited but my fiancee's reaction was: What?? A BEETLE?????
but what i tthink is... You'll get to love it once you have your licence!
bajachris88 ·
shaihulud wrote:Learner. A convertible Baja would be very cool. but if you Baja a genuine Beetle Cabriolet you could get lots of flack for ruining a cabriolet.
Get an already converted and registered as such after market convertible and then Baja it.
PLEASE, PLEASE ,PLEASE, REMEMBER THIS.
BAJA IS CORRECTLY PRONOUNCED BARHAR NOT BARJAR.
It is a Spanish/Mexican word and in Spanish J is pronounced H or in not pronounced at all. So the man's name Juan is pronounced Wahn not Jewahn.
If u were going to convert a convertible to a baja, make sure u give the pan extra support to stop flexing over bumps and corners (IE: a roll bar, or a body lift kit) otherwise u can end up getting cracks in ur chassis NOT PRETTY!. Just be weary too when u play in the mud... u will get dirty on the inside and outside :P Hehe. unless u got a good soft top... but beware, trees, overhanging branches etc, and the weight of the mud can rip, tear, damage and dislodge it.
for all u purists out there, did ya see that oval baja at valla :P 😂
Learner ·
yeah purists. all wv shops here are really nice but all back off when i mention custom or wors when baja is mentioned. although i do understand. if some1 died my dog's hair pink i'll freak out
Learner ·
i'm finaly getting somwhere! i got myself a 1969 beetle which i will post pics of when i get itorganised2nd i got myself the baja and buggies book. hopefully it would be a good read. thx you guys for your help but i'll be back with loads of questions!!!!
bajachris88 ·
GOOD ON YA LEARNER! so whats ur name buddy 😀
69'? Great yr! Juzt like mine 😀 baja all the way dude. any trubs don't hesitate to ask us.
Learner ·
sorry, i'm Lionel. I will have loads of questions. don't you worry about that. actually i was wondering... is it hard to convert them to unleaded? is it worth it? or is it best to change engine?
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
I run everything on preimium never had any trouble
bajachris88 ·
yeah, ALOT of dubbers run their vws on premium unleaded, and it works with no worries wat so eva... from what i have heard. My mates do the same... well actually, they just run it on standard unleaded, and it still kicks ass (bush basher. Taken alot of abuse, but still runs great!), but premium i would rather.
subibaja ·
so what do you use in your car chris when you take it on the beach or bush or even anywhere .
do you have your licence yet ,
are you even old enough to get it yet
you seem to give out a lot of advice
for someone who knows nothing
terry
makntracks ·
my baja is a convertible. it has got a chasis like structure under the pan to stiffen it up but now that it has a body lift im told that i dont need it any more, it also has got a roll bar/cage that would also stiffen it up. can post up some picks of the chasis under neath if you want.
Baja Wes ·
If it is a non-factory convertible then it will either have a blue plate or Queensland Transport certificate for the convertible conversion.
The add-on stiffening would have been required to get the convertible approved, and therefore cannot be removed unless you get the approval done again. And only then providing the lift kit provides enough additional strength to replace what is under the chassis.
You will need an approval engineer to make this judgement. The design of the stiffening needs to be in accordance with mod code LH1 of the (Queensland) code of practice for light vehicle modifications. The construction must be in accordance with LH2.
Learner ·
well i just got myself a hardtop but yeah it would be nice to see it.... maybe one day i might go for a convertible......
As for the Fuel I'm getting confused. Using unleaded will kill the engine won't it?
subibaja ·
you can not buy leaded feul anymore
so that would answer the question
thanks for that wes i forgot i can do a search in forum
Learner ·
i got my beetle a 1969 1500!
[ Edited on 25-8-2006 by Learner ]
Baja Wes ·
congrats man, looks like a nice car.
Let the games begin 🙂
MickH ·
Chop it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😂😂
Learner ·
hehe it is nice i just got to get the money together. but since it's my only car right now i recon i'll start with the inside (it hasn't got a radio). It's got the original fuse box should i upgrade it?
Learner ·
ok here is another one. Is it possible to install a mordern dash board? with speedo odometer etc? if so how??? do i need to do anything witht he fuse box?
makntracks ·
pretty shore wes has got some pretty modern stuff in his baja just ask him think he just put climate control in so i dont think a dash would be a biggy.
The thing is it worked for us because we also run the engines and wiring looms that go with those dashes.
To use it with a VW you'd have to also use a speed sensor and something to calibrate the speedo to the different VW wheel size. The tacho would be a little tricky too.
[ Edited on 25-9-2006 by Baja Wes ]
Learner ·
which thread?
Learner ·
got a question! my fuel hose disconnected itse;f while driving 3 days after i got the car fixed for RWC Got really anoyed at that... but anyway. since it has been replaced and even clamped, but i noticed there isn't much fuel in the fuel filter and it's harder to start the car. on a slope, the car tend to shut itse;f ( the enine i mean) seems like there is a fuel pressure problem?
how do i fix it? is there suppose to be quite a bit of fuel in the fiulter?
aussiebaja ·
most fuel filters only have about a third of fuel in them at a time ...sounds funny that your fuel line come off ...id'e check and mack sure no bastardhas put anything in the line or pump
stevosky ·
That one looks too nice to cut up.
Learner ·
the picture looks better than the actual thing. as for now i decided not to cut it but to do up the interior and maybe widen the fenders. actualy should i got to a panel beater or a custom shop to widen the fenders?
Anthiron ·
nah stick with your origional plans. it will be rewarding in the end.
better to start with a car in good condition than a shit heap and there will always be people who will judge you for doing it but who cares.
what are the first modification would people suggest i should do to a baja? after the body being done.
bajachris88 ·
Anthiron wrote:nah stick with your origional plans. it will be rewarding in the end.
better to start with a car in good condition than a shit heap and there will always be people who will judge you for doing it but who cares.
I agree... otherwise u end up with a poo heap like mine and ur busy scratching ur ass while staring at some nasty rust... wondering wtf was i thinking... lol 😀:thumb
CHOP DA BUGGER!! LOL!
slice and dice... mumma its mincin' time!
bajachris88 ·
Learner wrote:what are the first modification would people suggest i should do to a baja? after the body being done.
for any recreational dub, anyone can tend u just get away with the body kit and not very much work on the running gear...
BUT! what i would think of is strengthening the tie rods once i get my kit all on and body ready, cause they get bent very easily on the rough terrain.
I did hear somewhere about like some certain yr model bug tie rods being alright and a little stronger than others. was it the 1500 model ones? If so then score 😀😀
Otherwise mate, i got Jeff Hibbards guide to baja bugs and buggies, and it tells ya how u can strengthen em... might be able to scan some info... wil lc what ican do, scanner is all packed up at the moment cause of the house move... cheaper DIY though. if u want the info, give me ur email and will c what i can do... even if i retype it out.
otherwise... u should be fine for a recreational... can get away with stock air filter, even stock exhaust or even stock wheels if u wanted to be really low budget and have crappy traction, lol. (although u will stare and not like the bicycle wheels being on a baja with such fat guards, it neva looks right)
Learner ·
hehe i agree with your last statement. i'll look into the tie rod see what i can get from it.
thanx for that
Learner ·
SHITER TIME!!!
i want to replaces the stock shifter i've got any suggestions? i've her lots about the SCAL drag fast. is it really worth it and does the 40-60% throw reduction a benefit? unless street racing ofcourse
Learner ·
i have decided on an american made custom shifter with 60% throw reduction and special assambled for offroad use meaning all is sealled properly so no sand or dust can get into the mechanism
Anthiron ·
before you go buying expensive shifters etc.
id
a) get the body chopped and the kit fitted (use new fender beading)
b) get some wider wheels and tyres for the rear
c) get an offroad exhuast
d) make sure all the stock components are in good condition and working order before u start modfying things!!! unless you are replacing the item.
lots of people run stock tie rods including me and sure they bend. but u can get them easily, if u make your tie rods indestructable then you no longer have that weak spot and the shock is transfered down the line to the much more expensive steering box, my opinion anyway.
as for a shifter you can get a short throw kit for a stock shifter and an empi knob which will cost you about $40 instead of hundreds for a hi po shifter.
Sandy ·
Yep, I'd put a shifter way, way, way down on your list. My baja on the left here still has the standard shifter with a short-shift kit that cost me $5! It's up to you of course, but if you're going to build a baja there's a lot of money to be spent in other areas first.
Learner ·
the only reson y i'm getting it it's because i know a friend in the states that can get it for real cheap. it's a one off thing.. so y not. as for the body i'm still cahsing a kit and doing more research in exhausts:
as far as exhausts i think i'll settle in with a 4 into 1 as i've heard many good things about them how ever i'm getting overwelmed by the amount of brands and types and kits etc... plus just recently i heard about a 4 into 2 into1 does anyone knows anything about them?
Baja Wes ·
Anthiron wrote:lots of people run stock tie rods including me and sure they bend. but u can get them easily, if u make your tie rods indestructable then you no longer have that weak spot and the shock is transfered down the line to the much more expensive steering box, my opinion anyway
The best thing to do is get an old front sway bar, but it up and put the long straight part down the middle of the long tie rod.
This strengthens the long tie rod, and stops it from bending. But it has a little give and doesn't really shock everything else much different to what the stock tie-rod does anyway.
Wheels that are offset outwards give the tie-rods a harder life. This is because when you hit something with the front of the wheel, the force in an offset wheel goes to the outside of the spindle turning pivot point. So it essentially tries to turn the wheel outwards, which compresses the tie-rod. The bigger the offset, the bigger the turning force, and the bigger the compression force in the tie-rod.