Well, after the Warwick '06 meet, I decided to make some changes to the car.
These include :
Purchase some quality nozzles for the fuel system and get it re-flowed,
Adding an MSD 6AL,
Putting stock width guards on the car,
And, upgrading the CV joints.
The CVs and flanges were robbed off my crashed Chassis car, and are Commadore items.
The drive flanges and stubs have had locating rings welded to the standard items.
Some clearancing of the bump stop bracket was needed.
These CVs use a 28 spline axle the same as a 930 CV joint.
My axles are made by Romac here in Brisbane, and are 400mm long.
You can see how I cut a groove in the outer, to reduce some of the added weight.
This is pretty conservative, because I dont want a failure.
Perhaps I will remove a little more weight later.
[ Edited on 31-10-2006 by dangerous ]
[ Edited on 2-11-2006 by dangerous ]
[ Edited on 14-3-2007 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
I got this old MSD from a speedway guy that sold me a whole heap of his old VW stuff.
It was tested OK, but it would not work on the dyno.
I chose to use my Vanagon Wasser Boxer Dizzy,
so that if I have a problem with the MSD, I can bypass it and use the original system.
This is why the wiring is a mess, at the moment.
The MSD unit has to be supplied with a 12 volt direct supply,
and then there is a black, and an Orange wire that go to the coil.
The original VW wires (black for +ve, and green for -ve), are disconnected and one still gets 12 volts, whilst the green one now triggers the MSD white wire.
dangerous ·
All my connections have been soldered as well as crimped.
It looks likely that the former owner had a bad connection where the MSD dizzy wires,
connect to the purple and green wires on the 6AL.
I have chosen to use the white trigger wire instead.
The other wires will be left un-used.
Here is where the fat power wire is connected to 12 volts, and also the earth wire.
All the VW wiring is still in place, in case of a problem.
The car started up fine and it is now even more responsive than before.
The muliple sparks at cranking speed are impressive!
The spark actually makes a screech sound when it fires!
I put it on the 6000 limitter to make sure it works...man what a sound!!
I mounted the unit on rubber spacers to stop vibration damage.
It is on the package tray at the back of the car.
This is a photo of the engine with the coil and factory module mounted on the 1.5mm aluminium firewall.
dangerous ·
The fuel system is my constant tinkering project.
Yes, EFI is better, but on alcohol(methanol) I believe I can make this sytem run 99% as good as EFI.
I love to tinker and make things better, so I purchased some Kinsler Nozzles,
that are flow tested to be within 1% of each other in their pounds-per-hour rate.
This test is done at three different pressures.
The system has been re-flowed by Farrer Fuel Injection, and the hi-speed lean-out is now opening at the power peak of 7000 rpm.
At warwick it was opening at 7600, and this was only just before my 7800 shift.
dangerous ·
The narrower guards at the rear is more of a project than you would think.
Being that this car is IRS, and has disc brakes, and 8.5 inch slicks,
a stock width guard is a tight squeeze.
Again, with parts robbed from the chassis car,
I have brought the hubs in about 20mm from their original position.
I used a VW front rotor, and type three hubs to mount the wheel,
and a bracket for 914 calipers.
This required the back of the hubs to be machined off to get the caliper central with the rotor.
I also then needed a spacer for the axle nut.
All this work has allowed stock guards to fit, and all for Vanity.
I want the car to look a little bit more like it should.
More photos soon....
Dasdubber ·
You have been a busy boy Dave!
dangerous ·
The calipers that I am using are the late model type 3.
These have the same bolt spacing as my old 914 calipers, but use larger pistons.
Here is a shot of the spacer that takes upn the difference if what I took off the back of the hub.
It is made from the snout of an old drum, and is about 20mm(can't remember exactly)
This is a couple of views of the caliper brackets. They are fabricated from steel.
Being that they are fabricated, they would never pass a RTA inspection,
but I welded them correctly, and they are regularly crack tested.
These have served me well for over 14 years.
Perhaps I will make some from aluminium to save weight...or perhaps I will just leave them as is.
Stanley ·
Nice work Dave.
It's lucky you've got some work to do on the car....don't want those hands going soft...I almost thouight that was a hand models hand in one of the earlier picks....😁
pete wood ·
love it dave, you are a craftsman. 👍
btw, just looking at your throttle bodies. are they are custom job or are they off a particular model of something ot other?
dangerous ·
The throttle bodies are old ARPM/Bugpack IDA pattern throttle bodies,
opened up to 56mm.
Those callouses on my hands were not from work...but yeah, they do look like model hands.
I will stop right there with the jokes about the moisturiser!!
Boostn ·
The guards are coming Dave,
one down and half way through the second one, got to love Sundays.
dangerous ·
Thanks Nick. You are a champ.
I really appreciate this.
Stanley ·
Hey Dave, what are those coils like? I was looking at one at the local go fast shop. Are they any better than a standard GT40 etc?
dangerous ·
Stanley wrote:Hey Dave, what are those coils like? I was looking at one at the local go fast shop. Are they any better than a standard GT40 etc?
I am not sure about why they are the go Andrew.
This is just an off the shelf electronic coil.
In theory, the GT 40 would work with the stock electronic system as well,
but perhaps someone who knows more will chime in.
This one has served me well for many years.
Yesterday I picked up a two step module selector to borrow,
from Craig at Crankshaft Engineering.
It has two different rev limiting "chips".
The lower RPM one is for the start, and the higher one is for the over-rev protection.
I am planning to leave the start at 5000, and shift at 7800 with an 8000 chip for safety.
The lower limit applies when 12 volts is switched to the box.
I plan to trigger this 12 volts with a micro switch on the clutch pedal.
This way, when I leave the start, my accellerator will be flat to the boards,
and the engine will not see any more that 5000 rpm.
dangerous ·
Switch goes up...
Switch goes down...
Stanley ·
must be a test and tune coming up
and can I also add....nice suit.
Does that make your crew the "john butler trio" sorry.....:o
[ Edited on 2-11-2006 by Stanley ]
Adolph ·
Hi Dave
How much did they charge for the custom axles.
I need to have some made for my auto box, also have holden CVs.
Thanx and great job
Hermann
dangerous ·
Hi Hermann,
I bought them some years ago and they were under $400 for the pair.
Have all you dimentions ready, including the circlip groove size and location you want,
when you ring.
They are classed as a fully floating 28 spline axle(90 degree spline).
You may have to go through a romac dealer, in which case they will tack on their profit margin.
Try direct first, once you have a sketch of what you want.
DB
Boostn ·
Hey Davo,
you need to u2u me a postal address as I plan on doing some OT these few days off.
dangerous ·
Here is where I mounted the 2-step unit.
I decided to mount the 2-step switch on the staging brake,
because there was no room near the clutch pedal.
When the staging brake is applied,
there will be 12 volts sent to the 2-step box.
To prevent the lower rev limit operating in the burnout box,
I installed this switch.
It is turned ON when the burnout is completed.
If the engine hits the limiter in the burnout, the car stops producing HP, and the burnout will be crap.
So I try to control the throttle to maintain the RPM at about 7000 to 7500.
Thanks HotRod Matt!
[ Edited on 10-11-2006 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
Yesterday I made up some rev limit chips from some resistors, and some MSD chips that I had that were out of my range.
This photo shows the multi meter and the chips that I have to set the rev limiter.
Each chip has a set resistance inside, so I need to set the multimeter to the 20K Ohm scale to see how they compare.
Here I am testing one that I made.
I measured all the ones that I had and determined that I needed some resistors between 3 and 4 K Ohms for my start line RPM of around 5000 revs.
[ Edited on 15-11-2006 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
The next step was to find some doner chips to sacrifice.
These ones on the 9000 rpm scale will do fine.
I peel off the sticker, and inside is a precision resistor that I picked out, so that I can put in the replacement.
Based on my measurements with the multi meter, I got some resistors that were within my range,
and soldered them into the MSD carcass.
You can get these from Dick Smith or Tandy.
The legs are hollow, so I unsoldered the old, and installed the new.
Now all that was left was to try them in the car and test the limiter using the tach.
3.29 K Ohms was 4800 rpm.
3.58 K Ohms was 5100 rpm.
3.87 K Ohms was 5400 rpm.
and 4.22 K Ohms was 5800 rpm.
From the MSD chips that I had , 3000 chip measured 1.9 K Ohms and the 6000 chip measured 4.57 K Ohms.
It would have been quicker to just buy the correct chips from MSD, but I want to try a few different launch RPMs before I buy, plus I like to tinker too.
Boostn ·
plus I like to tinker too. [/quote]
HA HA !!!!!!!!
dangerous ·
Latest update is that I have fitted my new, stock-width, guards at the rear.
Before:
After :
One point during the change over was that I used a tungsten burr to make the holes,
rather than using a drill that will grab the fibers and tear the hole much bigger.
Thanks to Nick for this advice.
Nick from Vollkommen Art supplied the mudguards and the quality and fit was the best I have seen.
As it was before:
Another point was that I did each hole one at a time,
by marking out each one with the hole in the body.
I started from one end of the mudguard, that is most important to appear
correct alignment with the other body parts.
For most this will be correct alignment with the rear apron.
dangerous ·
New cam from other post:
Boostn ·
Dave,
just because it's Christmas, it does not mean you can get slack with updating your post!
what's the latest? guards on yet?
post a pick up.
humpty ·
Yeah... Come on Davo!!!
lunar_c ·
You are .. hardcore.
I am a competent mechanic myself and I love to tinker.. but you're obsessed!
It's a pleasure to watch. Your car is amazing!
Regards,
Ben
dangerous ·
vwfastback ·
Love your shop floor there Dave.
dangerous ·
Doctors surgery huh?
hellbugged ·
i see new wheelie bars there.....
dragvw2180 ·
I like it, 5800 on 2 step,wheelie bars = 60 ft and more chassis tunablity, Mike,
We don't need no stinkin floors !!!!!!!!! concrete/car parts ?hahahah
Stanley ·
Now we're gettin' serious....when's the next T&T.
dangerous ·
I am hoping to go to a test and tune at the end of the month.
I have been trying to get some work done around the house in preparation for some new concrete floors,(got a bit done!)
but no Volksy action is depressing, so I have spent a little time,
and a heap of money on some Volksy stuff.
With the changes to the car, especially the 2-step and smaller diameter tyre,
I decided to fit some wheely bars, just so that I don't waste the trip to the track.
With the overall tall ratio that I had with the 28 tyre, wheel-stands were uncommon,
so until I can get into the tranny and change the ratios, this will do the trick.
I have been studying different wheely bar designs for a while,
on both VWs and also conventional design cars and believe,
depite previously published theories,
that the bars SHOULD BE MOUNTED TO THE SUSPENSION.
So to test my theory, I have mounted the top to a point near the top shocky mount,
and the lower point near the lower shocky mount.
There will be a tube between the two sides at the wheel's centre line.
These bars were part of a barter exchange with Peter Page,
and are vintage "Racer Brown" sprung deals.
I had better get down stairs and finish that installation!
[ Edited on 11-2-2007 by dangerous ]
Dasdubber ·
Can't wait for the pics Dave. What is the diameter of the tyre you are running now - 26in?
I know you have probably documented it before (so sorry to cover old ground) but in summary what sort of effects did that have on 60ft time, rpm at top end, and your general perception of how the car behaved?
Cheers
Alan
PS I found that pair of 66 euro round push button handles - can't remember if they are the ones you like/need but they're yours if you need them (plus I still have your pressure plate adaptor ring which I need to return).
dangerous ·
These are the upper and lower mounts.
The top shock mount is steel(not cast Iron) so it welded quite well.
The lower mount is welded and braced near the lower shock mount.
dangerous ·
Hi Alan, the tyres are now 26" tall, and made about 500rpm more at the end of the track than the 28's.
In theory the accelleration should be better right through the run.
There is also a weight reduction at the diameter which all helps.
Because the wheely bars are mounted so far forward there is very little hanging out the back.
Hopefully this will mean less tripping over them, and not having to remove them when loading the car on the trailer.
Unlike conventional VW style bars, the wheel postion should change very little as the car squats on take off.
Only the tyre squat, and front rise should change its position.
[ Edited on 9-1-2007 by dangerous ]
[ Edited on 9-1-2007 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
26"
28"
Thanks Matt!
Stanley ·
lookin good Dave.
they are some good shots to...especially the first one
Dasdubber ·
Thanks for the reply Dave - sorry for another question - they are 8in wide right?
Every time I see a beetle (or bus for that matter) with the wheels up, it inspires me to do the same some day. It is one of my main motivational factors along with ET of course.
Great pics. :thumb
dangerous ·
The actual tread is 8.5" on these and around 9.5" across the side wall.
These dimensions and the height can vary a little depending on rim width.
eg, on an 8" rim the tyre would have a lower height and wider side wall
than if it were in a 7" rim.
Lower gearing and loose extension on the shocks can make a stocker wheel stand if the tyre and track are there.
I am trying to keep the car launching as flat as possible using the suspension and gearing,
and the bars are only there if it pops up by mistake.
[ Edited on 10-1-2007 by dangerous ]
humpty ·
I like the floor upgrades there Dave!!!!!
Dasdubber ·
Hey Dave, so I assume to help stop the front wheels from lifting you stiffen the front end (ie. shocks with a stiffer extension stroke)?
With regards to the wheelie bars, (not that I have to worry about them for some time yet!), Is there an optimal length for the vw application? I understand that if they are too short they can unload the rear tyres too quickly (ie. assuming that they are hit hard on the launch although I know you are only using them to prevent the wheelie going too high)?
dangerous ·
The shocks I am using are stock extension, whereas most guys use something that has a very fast extension.
The old bars I had before(in faster days) were about 50" long(1.27m) and used a thin wall small diameter tube to allow some flex over that length.
They were mounted to the traction bar at the back of the engine.
Most guys mount them under the belhousing to a bracket that bolts to the forks.
Unless they are very flexible, they WILL unload the chassis...which may NOT be ALL bad.
I mounted mine to the suspension points to try and stop the unloading....we will see how it works.
These ones ar about 1m from the mounting eye to wheel centre.
[ Edited on 6-2-2007 by dangerous ]
Stanley ·
Is the passsenger side lower than the other or is this the camera angle. If it is, is this to help counter the torque of the engine on launch.
dangerous ·
Yes it is Andrew, but nothing scientific, just rough.
I will do a final adjustment when it is on flat ground.
It is still on the stands also.
I will let you know when I run next, just saving up for fuel now. My arse is still sore form the cost of the new roller cam!
vwfastback ·
You had better shop at coles and collect lots of dockets dave. I think you will need more and 4 cents a litre.....
dangerous ·
Whilst the 'guards are away getting a fresh coat of white,
here is another couple of views:
dangerous ·
Painted guards, and ready to run!
Thanks to my Bro, John for the sanding and painting,
as usual, he dropped everything to do this for me.
He is a Champ.
[ Edited on 23-1-2007 by dangerous ]
Boostn ·
Looks Hot !!!!!!!!!!!
you have u2u
dangerous ·
OK
humpty ·
Lookin' good there Davo.... You don't have the areo's on the front still do you?
dangerous ·
Yes, kept them for now...They are special 'standard width' ones that Boris had made up,
and they have a special lip inside to divert the air flow.
Stanley ·
Lookin' sweet Davo, Any tail lights going on?
dangerous ·
Hi Andrew,
Just the pushbike light on the wing, (non-flashing kind).
vwfastback ·
Are you putting the dyno for the light frm the bik, against the wheel as well Dave?
James C.
dangerous ·
vwfastback wrote:Are you putting the dyno for the light frm the bik, against the wheel as well Dave?
James C.
Yes I was thinking of doing that James, but not enough engine power to turn one of those dynamos,
so a couple of AAA batteries should do the trick.
humpty ·
dangerous wrote:
vwfastback wrote:Are you putting the dyno for the light frm the bik, against the wheel as well Dave?
James C.
Yes I was thinking of doing that James, but not enough engine power to turn one of those dynamos,
so a couple of AAA batteries should do the trick.
LOL... Gotta love all this hitec stuff!
dangerous ·
All ready for the testamatune t'sarvey.(wed night)
It is very hot here today, I hope the afternoon thunderstorms stay away.
Stanley ·
see ya there.
The joy of working only 15mins away from the track
Boostn ·
Good luck DB !
no wonder you have been quiet lately................
pete wood ·
lookin good 👍
they're very wide wheely bars. is there a reason why they are so wide? just askin coz I was looking at some cars at Sydney drags and they had very narrow bars on em.
dangerous ·
Hi Nick, been a bit quiet with a stomach bug that helped me lose 5kg over night, but I feel better today!
Hi Pete, yes, they are very wide apart, and this is due to them being mounted on to the suspension springplates, and the top shock mount .
On most Volksies they are on the frame horns, and V8 cars (well, front motored anyhow), have to be narrow to fit between the tyres.
I was reasonably pleased with the out come of the test and tune, but also a little frustrated.
5 runs.
Car weighed 1783lbs=810kg.
11.96@117.1 bogged start, but best yet MPH.(5100 two-step on the launch)
12.47@115.71 bogged worse and missed 2nd gear...shocker, even with 5800 on the two-step.
11.439@117.96...good fast run, just a little slow in the 60@1.60 (just launched by feel...NO two step)
Best ever speed and close to my 11.431 best with 1.54 sixty footer.
11.576@117.16 felt clean, but not that fast. Perhaps I leaned it off too much.
12.07@116.97 Richened it back up. But bogged the start real bad (doh!!!) 1.998, my 40horse was faster than that!!
My maths says it was pulling 7365 RPM in top gear at 117.96mph.
Flywheel horsepower is 228.4 at that best speed.
Gotta get rid of that big duration cam!
[ Edited on 31-1-2007 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
Thanks to Stanley, Dak-a Tak, and RAZ34 for coming out to help.
Boostn ·
good stuff Dave,
is that the new roller?
dangerous ·
No, same one as Warwick.
Next run will be with new roller for direct comparison.
Stanley ·
dangerous wrote:Thanks to Stanley, Dak-a Tak, and RAZ34 for coming out to help.
Davo, I should be thanking you. Talking with you Pete and Rod inspires me. I feel I'm getting more than I give from the knowledge and experience you guys have and a willing to share.
and I wanted those chips so bad....but I didn't give in Dave.....:P
humpty ·
Lookin' good there Dave..... Your times are pretty (consistently!) impressive given the HP your producing..... But you better lay off the chips if you looking for serious improvements!!!!
:P
Boostn ·
dangerous wrote:No, same one as Warwick.
Next run will be with new roller for direct comparison.
That's it Dave,
waste more of your time and money doing all the R&D for all of us all !!!
Hard work, the only way to get it right.
I think some people think you put it all together and like magic it runs numbers..........
dangerous ·
humpty wrote:But you better lay off the chips if you looking for serious improvements!!!!
:P
Yes those wheely bars and bigger CVs have put my car about 30lbs heavy.(for the class)
I lost over 30 kg in the past, and I am about 6 up on that minimum right now,(76kg)
so I am trying to lose another 10 lbs.
At this rate(lost 1kg per week since new year, I will be there by the time I race again.
A chip here or there is fine, as long as I keep up my 12km per day walk!
dangerous ·
Boostn wrote:
dangerous wrote:No, same one as Warwick.
Next run will be with new roller for direct comparison.
That's it Dave,
waste more of your time and money doing all the R&D for all of us all !!!
Hard work, the only way to get it right.
I think some people think you put it all together and like magic it runs numbers..........
Yes unfortunately it takes a lot of time and effort to dial some combos in.
I have spent a lot of time and money over the last 16 years to buy some good stuff, but most of the equipment adds nothing to the speed,
only to the reliability and the repeatability.
As an example, the Pauter case is nice, expensive, and heavy,
but if I had spent those dollars on head work I would be running in the 3's by now.
But because I am in this for the long haul, (no flash-in-the-pan fame for me!),
I have chosen the 'slow and productive R&D path' to learn and document all the changes I have made.
(I have 26 exercise books full of info)
Some things work and some don't, and either way, I will want to know WHY.
What ever I find, or have found, is available to anyone for the asking. No point keeping it all to myself.
[ Edited on 3-2-2007 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
I have a list of things I need to take care of before I run again in a month or so.
First and main thing will be to get the camshaft changed.
I am not looking for massive gains in HP here, just some of that lost ET in the first half of the track.
The last engine combo that I was running had a camshaft that was 20 degrees less (@.050")
than the current Pauter cam, and it was always faster to half track than this combo.
This new cam is about half way between the two.
This next Test & Tune will be the last opportunity to test before the Mini-Jam at the end of March.
Other things on the list are :
Sus out the brakes.
The rusty rotors off the chassis car were hopeless in the braking ability.
They were on the minimum thickness so I just wire brushed them...bad Idea...lucky the front brakes were there on a separate circuit!
I think there was more of my new pads on the OUTSIDE of the wheel after the first run.
I have to do something about the driver's seat.
In the past, I had enough 'back fat' to insulate my spine from the hard seat,
but these days, after a day's racing I end up with a lump about mid way up my back.
I am planning to shift the seat back and stick a bit of padding there.
I also have to repair the mount under the bellhousing.
I noticed that the weld had split when I unloaded the car on Thursday morning.
Some other things are a dicky power supply isolator switch, the wheely bars' sliding spring-collar is locked solid and needs 'unsticking', and some airbleed mods to my nozzle holders.
I will post some photos as I go to better explain these things.
[ Edited on 4-2-2007 by dangerous ]
humpty ·
It never ends Dave.... Your list is as long as my ex-wife's 'to do list'..... Eternal!😢
dangerous ·
This isolator switch is an old Bus (school, not VW) item made in England.
It is of excellent quality, made from brass, copper and bakelite, with aluminium end plates.
Good old '50s technology.
It had some built up green corrosion insde on the main contacts, so it just needed a clean-up.
It is surprising how little of that green stuff can cut the power so completetely.
It wouldn't even light up the dash lights when it was not working.
But give the swich a twiddle(technical term) and it was sweet.
This was just one of those jobs that is an annoying fault that can become a huge issue,
especially if you are strapped in the car and a faulty switch is on the OUTSIDE.
dangerous ·
Here is the back brake pad after 5 runs from new.
dangerous ·
Just checking that the cam was installed in the correct location,
and also the rod to cam clearance.
Will also have to check the journal diameter.
The new cam is quite thick between the lobes, but because this case has a 6mm cam drop,
it will fit fine, even with the big Block Chev rod journal, Pauter Blower Rods.
I plan to install the new cam centralized within the old cam position.
Pauter cam was 38/68 intake and 78/28 exhaust(286@.050" on 110 lobe centre)
Hope new to be 34/63 intake and 70/27 exhaust...or there abouts...will see how it dials up....(277@.050" on 108)
[ Edited on 4-2-2007 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
OK, Cam is fitted and dialled in.
Lift at the valve with zero lash is .665" inlet (1.6 rocker),
and .595" exhaust (1.4 rocker).
Inlet is installed at 33/63 , and 70.5/27.5 for the exhaust.
Also checked all the bearings.
All was sweet 'til I got to #4 rod bearing.
The bearing was very shiney compared to the others.
It appears to have been run on some corrosion that had built up on the journal,
whilst the car sat still for the last 4 months since 'Warwick'.
Oh the joys of methanol fuel.
The adjacent rod journal(#1) is fed off the same oil hole in the main journal and was perfect,
leading me to believe it WAS NOT an oil supply problem.
I fixed up the spring-ends of the wheely bars also.
This was quite a mission. The Aluminium part had corroded inside the steel tube,
and I had to use a piece of tubing and a big nut to 'jack' them out.
They are supposed to slide with in the tube when the spring compresses.
All clean, lubed up and operational now.
I have also re-mounted the seat BACK about 2" to make it a bit more comfortable,
and give me some much needed seat belt length (NO not because of my belly).
Still have to stick some padding behind my spine.
Engine mount re-weld was a 5 minute job, and was due to lack of weld after trimming
excess material from under the bellhousing.
Just have to make sure the front brakes are AOK, some fresh oil in the engine,
and will be right to run again at the end of the month!
YE-HA!!
Boostn ·
I knew you were a cowboy! lol
dangerous ·
Car is all ready now to run again on the 7th of March (T&T).
The main thing is the cam change, but the fuel system will get some minor tweaks.
I recently purchased a computer program that can calculate
my ideal intake and exhaust lengths.
As I suspected mine are way wrong.
Looks like I have a new exhaust system in my future?
It should be an interesting project being that it will need much shorter primary pipes,
and I have a lot of fuel system parts to work around.
humpty ·
Oh boy.... Gotta love the constant refinement challenges.....
dangerous ·
Last Wednesdays Test & Tune was a rainy day,
so I went up last night and had 5 more runs.
This was with the 10 degrees smaller cam from Jack Sacchetti.(277@.050" roller)
11.96@116(slow start)
11.85@116.9(another slow start, but reasonable MPH)
11.33@117.59 this was a personal best ET(I had richened the fuel system down low, but not up high)
11.484@117.47 (another reasonable run but not as good launch as previous)
I had cut the collector off a little to try...virtually no change.
11.303@118.2 !!!! Personal best!
I launched with more RPM and richened the fuel system up above 7000.
60 foot time was 1.505 and 1/8 mile was 7.157@94.5
All the increaments were personal bests.
RPM in 4th is 7380
HP maths says 229.8 with 1783lbs.
Very happy with the outcome.
Thanks to Pete for crewing for me,
and all the other Volksy Dudes that dropped buy to see us race(3 Volksies were there)
[ Edited on 14-3-2007 by dangerous ]
reub ·
Congrats Dave. Great to hear this news.
Stanley ·
Hey Dave,
I think the reason you ran a personal best in the last race was the the car in the other lane pushing you so hard. I think you new it wasn't going to be easy......:P
dangerous ·
Now you are hooked Andrew, there is no turning back!
Good to see the TAT turbo racing!
RAZ34 ·
Good news Dave. You will have to do it again at Mini Jam so I can see it. How did Andrew go ?
dangerous ·
Andrew went well for his first time down the track.
17s@78mph I think, with 4 psi boost on the stock 1584cc.
Lots of room for improvement, and considering it is a stock weight '69, he is getting there!
No carb or dizzy tuning yet, and that was the first time he had given it some stick.
Col was there also, running 15.1@85 in his mega 1600.
[ Edited on 15-3-2007 by dangerous ]
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Nice job Dave!!! That little bit closer to that insane CRX from Online Performance.👍
Boostn ·
Awesome stuff Dave!!!!!!!!!!!
massive MPH too....
Smaller D @ 50 hey?
nice 60 ft I want it.
Same tyres?
dangerous ·
Hi Nick,
Yes smaller by 10 degrees!
60 foot was also a result of more RPM off the line.
This is with the 26" tyres.
If I was as light as that Honda I would be nearly as fast.
But that is not any concern to me,
I have so many more things to try I had better put my name down for a clone!
Thanks everyone for the positive replys.
Dasdubber ·
Nice work Dave - congratuations on the new PB! Fingers crossed for more improvements ahead.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Maybe make some fattening muffins for the guy who drives the CRX??
just a thought:P
Dasdubber ·
How could anyone resist Dave's home made muffins! They certainly are tasty 👍
Boostn ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Maybe make some fattening muffins for the guy who drives the CRX??
just a thought:P
I like it!
fatten him up for the kill.......
Boostn ·
I'm thinking less drag because of the stock guards with the shiny paint.....
That's why it went 118................
LOL
hypo-vw ·
Congratulations Dave on your new PB . That thing is really flying , Well done !! :bounce
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Any chance of the oval making an appearance at any of the sport compact rounds up here Wayne??
Be nice to watch you vs Dangerous with dial your own racing!!!!
a VW enthuisasists dream......
Stanley ·
Can I also add that you get a new appreciation for how fast it goes when your chasing it and it's pulling away rather quickly.
Who would have thought 12 months ago i'd be racing Dave Butler.....👍
hypo-vw ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Any chance of the oval making an appearance at any of the sport compact rounds up here Wayne??
Be nice to watch you vs Dangerous with dial your own racing!!!!
a VW enthuisasists dream......
No plans of coming up north til the Warrick Weekender sorry . I have really got my hands full at present just trying to keep the work flowing through the shop without any staff members . Just myself and a 1st year apprentice as I have lost both of my workshop tradesmen to a V8 supercar race team .
I am currently putting in 16 - 17 hours a day , 5 days a week and 8 hours on a saturday . Sunday is my only opportunity to play , and today it was build a transmission for my sports sedan which is coming out of the back of the shed and heading back to Huntley Hillclimb with my son ( Dean ) as the pilot . I am about to put a post about it in the circuit racing forum . Wayne .
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
No worries mate I can fully understand where you are coming from as I was running my own business myself for nearly 10 years till a nice easy opportunity came knocking with holiday pay etc etc. Good luck with the sports sedan and see you at Warwick.
Cheers Brennden
So Dave are you baking a big batch of muffins for the mini jam??? If so I'll start starving myself now LOL
[ Edited on 18-3-2007 by LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ]
dangerous ·
Muffins?
OF COURSE!!!
[ Edited on 25-3-2007 by dangerous ]
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
you the man Dave:thumb
dangerous ·
Stanley ·
how could ya Dave....I can see i'll put my 17kg's back on again if ya take those to the mini jam
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
dangerous wrote:
You're killing me mate!!! mini Jam is still another 2 weeks away AARRGGHHH
BRING ON THE MUFFINS MUFFIN MAN:😂
Boostn ·
Stanley wrote:Can I also add that you get a new appreciation for how fast it goes when your chasing it and it's pulling away rather quickly.
Who would have thought 12 months ago i'd be racing Dave Butler.....👍
It's pretty heart breaking hey,
your flat out and this car is just pulling away like your just cruising.
It's happened plenty of times to me, that's one of the reasons I like a loud exhaust so i can hear my car when you have a tuff v8 or 13b next to you.
Doug Sweetman ·
oh so close to 120 dave.... not far away now.
Its very educational for me reading a thread like this - its more and more obvious that its not about how many go fast bits or $ you throw at an engine, its all about the combination of the RIGHT pieces and the RIGHT tune......
point in fact... who would have believed an NA 1600 would go 15 flat ? not me.....
keep it up Dave, just another Aussie Vee Dub Drag Legend in action.....
dragvw2180 ·
Now Dave that was just plain mean, Now I understand the comments about the muffins,mmmmm Mike
dangerous ·
Checked the rod bearings this morning and all is sweet for the Mini-jam net Saturday.
The only change will be the shorter intake runners.
This new length was calculated by a program that I got from the USA.
It is primarilly for exhaust system design, but has other features also.
The new length is 13.3" from the ram tube to the valve seat.
It is about 4" shorter than previous,
and about 6" shorter than when these runners were used in a speedway midget.
Stanley ·
Lookin' good.
I wish it was that easy to check rod bearings on a standard engine.
RAZ34 ·
Did you do anything to the exhaust system or just the intake runners Dave ?
dangerous ·
Hi Rod,
Only the intake length this time.
I shortened the collector length at the track during the last Test&Tune,
with no appreciable change(1/10 of MPH).
Exhaust system is the next change in length and diameter...I have a box of tubes but that is all.
dangerous ·
The only changes for this event were the shorter intake runners,
and I also shortened the bump stops on the rear suspension.
The shorter runners made virtually no change, but I am still tinkering in that area.
The shorter bump stops made a huge improvement and made for very smooth launches.
Qualifying was very hot during the day, and I even had to lean off the fuel mixtures to compensate.
The first two runs were shockers, but last qualifier was a relief :
11.99@114.45 (bogged the start)
12.12@116.88 (missed 2nd gear, but leaning mixtures helped MPH)
11.58@116.67 (a little slow but a clean run during the heat)
Dialled in at 11.43 which is my Andra record,
this was just a guess with the air now cooled off
and a very inconsistent qualifying effort.
I richened it up for the first round of racing.
11.431@117.83 on a buy run(top qualifyer gets the buy)
11.443@116.76
11.730@117.99 bogged the start, but won due to a red lighting opponent(good MPH)
11.400@110.32(backed off on the finish line)
I broke out , but my opponent broke out by more.
60 foot times were:
1.843(bog!)
1.708(bog!)
1.612 bit better considering the heat
1.585
1.545(now we're cookin')
1.809 (bog, but "get out of jail free')
1.550
I think I will give the tranny a freshen,
and try the "two step" again, but on the clutch pedal this time. Hmmm...
Hey Nick! My emails bounced back.
Car weighed 1775lbs and re-set the Sport Compact Group Record to 11.400.
[ Edited on 31-3-2007 by dangerous ]
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Dangerous is back!!!! Man so good to see you back out there giving it to the other cars in the cateogries!! Car is looking good and sounding sweet as that record is getting lower and lower all the time!!
By the way everyone the muffins were superb!! Will post pics up of the batch soon...
Boostn ·
Guess who's walking on water right now? Life's great hey?
Congrats Dave,
You make it look so easy!!!!!!!!!
Nice shifts in the video, excellent driving!
very well deserved after all the changes you made, always tinkering pays off.
I got your e-mail.
[ Edited on 1/4/2007 by Boostn ]
dangerous ·
Well, its time to get back onto the car and do a bit more.
I have finally got a concrete floor!
I have been wanting to build a new exhaust system for a while and so now it is time to give it a go.
I am not sure if it will work out but here is what I want.
There are no off-the shelf systems for these engines.
Pauter heads use a big square flange
and the primaries need to be in a position to clear the oil pump and fuel pump.
My current system has 2" primaries and they have been extended to clear the afore mentioned parts.
Not exactly ideal.
Recent book and internet searches have found a computer program that says my system needs
to be no larger than 1 7/8" diameter primary pipes and between 26 and 30" long.
These details change with cam, rpm range and engine size.
I have some flanges off my damaged 'Blower' Pipes,
and the pipe that I will use needs to be swaged into an oblong shape
to prevent the port from being obstructed.
The current 2" pipes just clear the port in their round shape.
The Pauter exhaust port is massive...probably too big for what I am doing,
but this is how it is, so no point compaining.
My intention is to make and mount a collector,
and then bolt the flanges and stubs up,
then fill in the gaps with various mandrel bends.
After reading Westi's posts in Members Rides,
I thought I would give it a go, and make a jig for cutting the pieces for the collector.
First piece looks OK.
I was not sure how to mark out the shape so tested the memory
and unearthed some 'tech drawing' and 'trig' memories to plot the points.
Angle is 15 degrees.
Any pointers from anyone with views on this would be gladly accepted.
Dasdubber ·
Good to see you finally have some concrete Dave! There will be no stopping you now! 👍
BrisDubba ·
Hmm anyone wanna guess how long will it be before we see two black lines on the concrete leading to one very quick dub..
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Dangerous if you get stuck for bends and stuff I can organise something from CES if you want. Trevor would be happy to help if you need it.
andrewmurphy ·
Nice concreting job dave. How did you go for getting power organized?
dangerous ·
Still waiting on Energex.
Stanley ·
Man I must have nodded off in that part of tech drawing.....or to quote the wise one, Homer Simpson.
"every time I learn something new, it pushes out something old"
dangerous ·
Well easier said than done.
After making the four quarters of the collector,
I welded them up with the oxy.
Not totally happy, but it will work for my first time.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Quick tidy up and some HPC coating and they'll look every part of a professional job!!!!
dangerous ·
After completeing the collector and mounting it TEMPORARILY where it needs to be,
I can begin to fill in the gaps.
I have completed the ONE and THREE cylinders, and will go to the next cylinder tomorrow.
I borrowed a small tig welder to do the remaining parts, but still need more practice.
I think they will clean up OK and at least I can control the penetration
and make sure there are no dilburies hanging inside the pipes.
I have been able to reduce the pipe length by about 10",
which is not as short as I would have liked but still much better.
dangerous ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Quick tidy up and some HPC coating and they'll look every part of a professional job!!!!
No HPC coating for me.
A can of black exhaust paint is all it needs,
and not a waste of food money on shiney stuff.
I prefer ACTUAL performance improvements rather than imaginary ones.
But yes, the stuff is pretty.
Here you can see where the collector is mounted to get the length where I want it.
You can see in this shot, how far back the collector used to be.
humpty ·
Damn Dave..... Thats lookin' so nice!..... And Im happy for you and the floor.... It always amazed me how you did what you did with the bluemetal you had happening B4 (Prior 😉)
PS.... I'd still love to grab that tube car off you.... Maybe I'll have a chat with you at Warwick if I make it over..... Gotta save the pennys for the trip..... Still need to sort a place to stay!
dangerous ·
humpty wrote:Damn Dave..... Thats lookin' so nice!..... And Im happy for you and the floor.... It always amazed me how you did what you did with the bluemetal you had happening B4 (Prior 😉)
PS.... I'd still love to grab that tube car off you.... Maybe I'll have a chat with you at Warwick if I make it over..... Gotta save the pennys for the trip..... Still need to sort a place to stay!
Perhaps we can do a tube car accomodation deal for Warwick?
Do you think B4 might come up for a look this year?
humpty ·
I think Aaron is thinking about it.... I'll give Dave a call and try to talk him into it.... He's dragged that bus into the shed just lately..... Seems he's got a interest back!
Collector will be just over 3" OD tube.
Not sure if I will make a megaphone or not.
If so, 2.5 to 3.5" diameter, and 15" length.
Around 15" seems to be the spot.
[ Edited on 17-5-2007 by dangerous ]
Gracey ·
Interesting stuff.
It'll be interesting to see how it performs.
Thanks Dave.
dangerous ·
Wow! What a chore.
Rule 1 : Don't use a TIG when it is windy!
Enough excuses, its almost done.
Just have to make a tail pipe, and then tidy all the welds up for paint.
There is so much to learn with this TIG welding.
Buy the time I got to the last weld, I almost had the welder sussed out.
I will have to re-fit the wheely bars to make sure the position of the stinger/tailpipe clears.
I am going to try to make a tapered pipe from 2.5" up to 3.5" over a 15" length.
Not quite sure HOW yet, but that is the next step.
If not a straight piece or 3" tube will do the trick.
[ Edited on 19-5-2007 by dangerous ]
Stanley ·
Looks neat....screams out for a big stinger. Will it fit under a rear apron now?
humpty ·
I could have a go at rolling one for you Dave.... I have rollers at work that I have been thinking of trying that on.....
dangerous ·
Yes, it will all fit under the apron now Andrew.
Even if it makes no more power, it will at least have reached one goal.
Thanks Simon, I also have a set of small rollers that I made at Tech college,
so I will try them first.
Just not sure how much taper I can get as yet.
I did make a small stinger many years ago, but it has been lost in translation.
I may take you up on that offer!
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
dangerous wrote:
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Quick tidy up and some HPC coating and they'll look every part of a professional job!!!!
No HPC coating for me.
A can of black exhaust paint is all it needs,
and not a waste of food money on shiney stuff.
I prefer ACTUAL performance improvements rather than imaginary ones.
But yes, the stuff is pretty.
Here you can see where the collector is mounted to get the length where I want it.
You can see in this shot, how far back the collector used to be.
True mate you need to save for the ingredients of all the muffins you have to make for the busy part of the year as far as racing is concerned....
Stanley ·
maybe you could have a stall at Warwick.
"Will swap muffins for methonol"
westi ·
westi's how to helped you out.good to see people having a go.
pretty good for you first time.
as for your tig,what temps were you welding with.what size filler rod did you use .how fine did you sharpen the electrod.i might be able to give you some tips.
dangerous ·
Hi Westi,
Thanks for the encouragement, depite the ugly work.
I am using 1.6 wire and 1.6 tip, and it is pretty pointy...like about ..say..3 degrees incuded angle.
Way sharper than a pencil.
The most trouble was the wind, but also some bubbles when I welded the 10mm thick flange
to the 1.6mm wall tube(or thinner on the outside of a bend).
The last one of four worked OK with a fair bit MORE heat in the weld(75 on the scale where as it was about 45 on the tubes).
I am using pure argon, so this may be an issue too?
It is all done now(4 fun filled days!), but I can see me doing all this again in my future!
[ Edited on 23-5-2007 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
Well it has been a while so here is the finished exhaust.
There were three factors in the poor welding technique.
Wind,
Not enough amps on thick material,
and not enough argon flow.
Oncethese things were solved it all worked sweet, shame it was in the end.
The stinger rolled up OK,
but the rollers were at their limit of angularity to get a 1" taper over 15".
I had to use a V8 style flange to get the diameter correct.
nbturbo ·
Fantastic work there.Good to see I'm not the only one who masters the tools when the jobs nearly finished.Just had to make another set of ally fuel rails because I didn't master the TIG straight away.
dangerous ·
Well I certainly would not say I have mastered it,
but I did get the pipes to join, and they did not fall off the car last night.
It sounds great, and even idles different...who would have thought!?
Unfortunately I prefer performance , and it was sadly lacking in that department.
I was a bit sad last night on the way home because the results were not as good as I had hoped.
11.66@114.13(felt lean)
11.67@114.68(richened it up down low, (probably too much since that was the only pill-step i had for below sea level conditions) It felt better, but time cards dont lie)
11.48@116.34(took fuel out of mixture above 7000, much better)
11.70@115.77(lazy launch)
11.69@115.59(clutch slipped about a car length out, then wheel stood)
The night was very cold and it caught me out a bit with the fuel system.
As above, the last run showed clutch slip, so I will have to service that.
That is now 45 runs on this engine so I think it is time to upgrade.
I have the Dyno day on at the end of July so I will at least have to sus out the clutch before then, and then retire this combo afterwards.
I think at this stage that the smaller exhaust tubing did increase the torque down low,
but it has lost about 10hp overall on this combo.
With finer fuel system tuning I could get it to be equal,
but unless I can get those primary lengths down to the optimum of 26 to 30"(currently 34) I will have to go back to 2" plus tubes.
Thanks to Pete, Rod for the snakes (and the energy pep that they gave),
Stanley, Col, and Andrew(13BVW) for coming out in the cold for support!
[ Edited on 27-6-2007 by dangerous ]
[ Edited on 28-6-2007 by dangerous ]
Stanley ·
dangerous wrote:That is now 45 runs on this engine so I think it is time to upgrade.
I have the Dyno day on at the end of July so I will at least have to sus out the clutch before then, and then retire this combo afterwards.
!
[ Edited on 27-6-2007 by dangerous ]
Maybe it's time to go back to some forced induction....:P
It did sound great. All that work was worth it just for the sound....:thumb
dangerous ·
No way!
The back up engine is assembled and waiting.
More compression, more lift and better heads.
Lighter(non-blower) components also.
Boostn ·
Good Stuff Dave even if you are sad.
It shows us how a lot of hard work and cash sometimes doesn't work, and we feel like shit.
BUT when it does we seem to forget all about it. We always learn and I think if there was more track time and hotter conditions we would see a better result. People like you help everyone else with their R&D because you have done it.
I think this system will work better on the new engine. Am I correct??
westi ·
out of interest how did you measure them.
they only look short to me.
and a good rule of thumb is short and fat,long and skinny
nice work ,keep the pic's comin
dangerous ·
The program I am using asks the length to start from the flange rather than the valve seat.
(It asks for the port length as one of the inputs, and factors it in).
The end of the pipe is one inch after the primary breaks into the collector,
"half way along the cone" as Larry Meaux quoted.
The pipes are 34" using this method, and one is a little shorter than this(#2)
This exhaust may work better on the other combo,
but I was hoping this would be the case on this one too.
Thanks for the pep up Nick.
That is an interesting rule of thumb Westi.
Isn't that about something else?:blush
I have been thinking more along the lines of short and thin or long and fat
when it comes to exhausts.
liltimmy1300 ·
dangerous wrote:Well I certainly would not say I have mastered it,
but I did get the pipes to join, and they did not fall off the car last night.
It sounds great, and even idles different...who would have thought!?
Unfortunately I prefer performance , and it was sadly lacking in that department.
I was a bit sad last night on the way home because the results were not as good as I had hoped.
11.66@114.13(felt lean)
11.67@114.68(richened it up down low, (probably too much since that was the only pill-step i had for below sea level conditions) It felt better, but time cards dont lie)
11.48@116.34(took fuel out of mixture above 7000, much better)
11.70@115.77(lazy launch)
11.69@115.59(clutch slipped about a car length out, then wheel stood)
The night was very cold and it caught me out a bit with the fuel system.
As above, the last run showed clutch slip, so I will have to service that.
That is now 45 runs on this engine so I think it is time to upgrade.
I have the Dyno day on at the end of July so I will at least have to sus out the clutch before then, and then retire this combo afterwards.
I think at this stage that the smaller exhaust tubing did increase the torque down low,
but it has lost about 10hp overall on this combo.
With finer fuel system tuning I could get it to be equal,
but unless I can get those primary lengths down to the optimum of 26 to 30"(currently 34) I will have to go back to 2" plus tubes.
Thanks to Pete, Rod for the snakes (and the energy pep that they gave),
Stanley, Col, and Andrew(13BVW) for coming out in the cold for support!
[ Edited on 27-6-2007 by dangerous ]
[ Edited on 28-6-2007 by dangerous ]
Saw you out at the test & tune last night, got one photo of you racing, my camera wasn't in top condition lol. I was very impressed with the car, was the first time I had seen it run before and I had a nice little grin on my face when i saw the low 11's popping up on the timing boreds. Nice work mate :thumb
Tim
dangerous ·
Hi Tim,
You should have come and said g'day.
All Volksy blokes are welcome!
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
dangerous wrote:Hi Tim,
You should have come and said g'day.
All Volksy blokes are welcome!
you might have even got a free muffin!!
liltimmy1300 ·
Lol, I will next time I see you out there, you will have to let me know when you come out, might come out especially :P Here are the couple of good pics i got, I am pretty sure they are the High res ones, if they aren't and you would like them, PM me and i can send them to you.
dangerous ·
Thanks for the cool photos Tim.
I really like that first 'action' shot.
I have had time to go over all the numbers and realise now that despite the MPH(hp) being down on previous bests,
the ET to half track was not bad considering the track conditions and fuel tune.
The 1/8 mile ETs were all better by a tenth than previous SIMILAR 1/4 mile times.
7.37@91.61 (lean)
7.41@91.84 (way rich)
7.26@92.63 (leaned mix off up high)
7.47@92.48 (slow start)
7.44@92.44 (slid clutch off start)
Also the 60 foot times were mostly better than what I ran at Warwick, except for those runs where I stuffed the start.
1.612
1.612
1.566
1.683 (doh!)
1.654 (doh!)
Life aint so bad when you see it from a different perspective.
humpty ·
So why the 'slow' times in the top end?
[ Edited on 1-7-2007 by humpty ]
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Too many muffins pre race!!!!
Stanley ·
Atleast he got to run..😢
dangerous ·
When I got to the track, the air was very good and I wanted to richen the system just a tad.
Unfortunatelyy I had no fuel pills other than a massive step which was my only option.
Other than that, the new exhaust may have moved the torque peak to a lower RPM.
=lower HP,
=lower mph.
But it(the 116.34mph run) was less than 2 mph down from my best of 118.2.
humpty ·
Its a bloody black art what you do.... Top work Dave....
Adsman ·
Look forward to see more posts Dave. Its great to see the potential from vw motor even if it costs. I would like to see your car in person if I can get to the coast. Do you have any videos posted?
dangerous ·
Here is a good one from Alan : 11.40 winning the final at the Mini Jam.
Strong!!! It's the Hercules of flat 4's on the strip( starts doing the Hercules,Hercules, Hercules chant from The Nutty Professor!!)😁😁
Boostn ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Strong!!! It's the Hercules of flat 4's on the strip( starts doing the Hercules,Hercules, Hercules chant from The Nutty Professor!!)😁😁
hey,
a cutomer of mine is building a turbo bug called Hercules.
cool logo too, I'll ask him if i can post the logo.
But yeah, Daves car is tuff !
dangerous ·
Tappets needed no adjustment,
and oil filter is clean for the dyno day on the 28th of July.
It is on at:
Custom Exhaust Specialist
2/78 Nestor Dv
Meadowbrook
QLD
8am to 1pm.
fullnoise ·
Hi Dave,
I'm enjoying following your post.
I looked at the pictures above and I think the new rear guards without the tail lights look really nice. Its a much cleaner look.
On the video I though the start looked very clean and rapid. There didn't seem to be a lot of suspension movement and the car looked nice and straight. I bet it has taken a lot of work to make it look so simple.
How much clutch should you use on a start? I heard a guy from Competition Friction saying that he teaches the V8 Supercar Drivers to do starts. He said a good start uses the clutch for about 2.5 seconds up to about 70 km/h. He said the guys that do poor starts spin the wheels and lose a few places.
With that in mind I let out the clutch too fast, get a bit of wheel spin and I've never ever smelt the clutch.
Would you recommend using a bit more clutch than just dumping it? I suppose having an open diff would make a difference because the wheels spin easily and its harder to bog down the engine.
Keep up the good work.
CYA CT
dangerous ·
Leaving the start is a bit touchy some times.
You need to have JUST enough clutch clamp,
and RPM,
to match the torque,
at the rpm that you like to use.
I currently use a three puck that is only 180mm diameter,
but it has a fairly high clamp force of 2700lbs when new.
With my old blower engine you could leave the line smooth and fast from an idle,
but now with this normally aspirated engine it needs at least 5000 rpm too leave the line hard.
If you either have too little rpm,
or do not slide the clutch it will bog the engine down.
If the clutch never wore out,
you would set the pressure so that it just slips a little going into 4th gear,
but I have set it at maximum now and it probably lasts about 30 to 40 runs before needing surfacing
and re-setting of the clamp height (with the built-in spacers).
I think with road radials you may be able to get one wheel to spin off the start, but on a sticky start line and with slicks, the clutch normally does the work,
unless you pump up the tyres quite hard.
Unfortunately you have to use a set-up that works,
or can be made to work for different conditions
through out the day or at different tracks through the year.
As an example, The big jamboree typically has excellent track but poor air(HP) until the night comes,
and then a cold winter Test and Tune will have a slippery cold track
but more HP.
So many variables, but you just deal with it on the day.
Consistent 60 foot times generally make for a very consistent car, even if you dont quite get your shift points right.
[ Edited on 28-7-2007 by dangerous ]
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Are you running an open diff in your car Dangerous??
dangerous ·
Yes Brennden, open centre.
Albins chromoly that I lightened a bit.
Do we need a muffler for the dyno day?
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Nah. Noise is noise and your car isn't that noisy as some I have heard on the dyno at CES.
not long to go now... only a couple of weeks before DYNO MANIA!!!!!!
fullnoise ·
Thanks for the explanation Dave.
So your clutch glazes over or burns or something? Is that why it requires resurfacing?
Is your pressure plate drag race only item? Do normal pressure plates have the adjustment you mentioned?
I'm surprised you run an open centre diff. But it still spins both wheels when you do a burn-out doesn't it?
Sorry I'm such a novice, I should probably start a drag racing 101 post.
CYA CT
dangerous ·
No worries CT.
Ask anything you want.
The pucks on the disc wear down and it loses pressure,
but also the shoe on the clutch can get warped
(as can the FW) with the heat that can be developed.
The clutch on my car is much the same as most things on my car, home made.
Where a standard clutch bolts down to the step on the FW,
mine sits on spacers that I can either shim up,
or machine back to control its installed height.
You could use the clutch on the street with the right disc,
but it does rattle a bit when disengaged.
It uses a conventional diafragm rivetted into the cover(Holden diafragm I think),
and a shoe that floats like most muli-disc deals.
(but mine is a single disc & dual when boosted)
Yes it sometimes spins just one wheel in the burnout,
but once you get them spinning the other one usually catches up
as the first one gets sticky.
This can be hard on the spider gears and shafts,
but I added more clearance on the shafts and extra oil holes in the diff.
fullnoise ·
One wheel spins and gets sticky so the other one starts to spin too or instead. That makes sense.
I took a video some years back at the Wednesday night off-street drags at Eastern Creek raceway that demonstrated that but I didn't realise that is what was happening.
Here's a bit of a yarn. If I can find the video I'll have a go at posting it on youtube. It's really cool.
I had a metalic brown cal-look oval as a daily driver. Greg Ward and I thought it would be fun to bolt his spare 1916 in the car and have some fun at the drags. He said I should drive because it was my car. But I maintained he should drive because it was his engine: and he tends to drive it like he stole it.
The car had hard-as-a-rock 165R15 Remington cheapie brand tyres. Greg selected second gear in the stock 4.12 box on the burn-out bit and gave the engine 7000 and dropped the clutch.
In the video you can see smoke coming out from the driver's side guard and then the engine not changes and smoke starts coming out of the passenger side guard and then the car disappears in tyre smoke. You can hear the other spectators laughing and the commentator saying "That's a very tough little beetle".
There was a Charger in the other lane waiting for the beetle and the smoke to clear. When the lights went green the beetle took off at high revs and the tyres just make a slight screech for maybe half a second and it took off. The race looked close from where I was and the commentator said "I tell you what it looks pretty close at half track" and you could hear the surprise in his voice.
The charger ended up winning and the oval did a 14.9.
There was so much rubber inside the guards and inside the rear bumper at the end of the evening. But the tyres gripped better after that.
CYA CT
dangerous ·
Cool story!!
It will be good to catch up with all you guys again at Warwick this year.
It is going to be an awesome event.
I have the dyno-day and then the Jamboree to get through first however.
tassupervee ·
Damn
I watched that clip of that kraut of yours Dave about a dozen times in a row.
It just leaves so well!
Awesome stuff M8! Ive read so much stuff on your ride but thats the first bit of footage ive spotted.
L8tr
E
dangerous ·
Well, next event is the dyno day on Saturday the 28th.
I have fitted some radial tyres to some 7" rims, 225/60-15 Dunlops,
so as not to wreck my slicks,
and have left the combo as I ran it last except for some minor fuel system adjustments.
I would like to see 190@the wheels,
but this all depends on the dyno and what the correction factors are.
Last time I ran, it did about 116.5 mph and weighed 1775lbs (807kg OH CRAP that is heavy!).
So I will report back at that time to see what happens.
Most interesting thing for me, will be the RPM at which peak toque and power occur.
Stanley ·
dangerous wrote:Well, next event is the dyno day on Saturday the 28th.
I have fitted some radial tyres to some 7" rims, 225/60-15 Dunlops,
so as not to wreck my slicks,
Now all you have to do is resist the urge to bag these tyres up out on the street.
humpty ·
Stanley wrote:
dangerous wrote:Well, next event is the dyno day on Saturday the 28th.
I have fitted some radial tyres to some 7" rims, 225/60-15 Dunlops,
so as not to wreck my slicks,
Now all you have to do is resist the urge to bag these tyres up out on the street.
Bloody trouble maker!:kiss
dangerous ·
Who would have thought!
Great day!
Thanks to Brennden, Peter, and Trevor@ 'Custom Exhausts'.
Thanks also to Alan Agyik for sponsoring the trophy for my class.
'Pacific Hearing' is Alans business if you need some stuff related to this area....I might have to get a hearing Aid after today!
[ Edited on 28-7-2007 by dangerous ]
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Well after having to sit in the back of your car for a bit of extra weight to stop it from turning the tyres on the rollers I have to say that it is friggen loud inside as well!!
But man I just love the way your car pulls hard all the way to the limiter especially from 4500 to 7800!!! Sure as hell made my day!!
Big thanks to you mate for making the effort to tow your car up for the event and put on a great display on the dyno.
dangerous ·
Boostn ·
dangerous wrote:....I might have to get a hearing Aid after today!
[ Edited on 28-7-2007 by dangerous ]
You went to the dyno without ear muffs? That's crazy!
Congrats dude!
That car works well to et so well.
good power!
When is the new engine going in?
Dasdubber ·
dangerous wrote:Who would have thought!
Great day!
Thanks to Brennden, Peter, and Trevor@ 'Custom Exhausts'.
Thanks also to Alan Agyik for sponsoring the trophy for my class.
'Pacific Hearing' is Alans business if you need some stuff related to this area....I might have to get a hearing Aid after today!
[ Edited on 28-7-2007 by dangerous ]
Cheers for the plug Dave 😉
You are right though, hearing loss is inevitable when exposed to those levels of noise! Look after it as once its gone its gone!
PS Well done on HP Dave.
PPS Will drop around your clock soon!
Alan
dangerous ·
I am still a bit sceptical on the power,
but the high RPM at which it peaks certainly is positive
being that the engine is medium to large swept volume.
I had planned to put the new engine in by now
but I still have not completed my R&D on this clunker.
If the clutch lasts at The jamboree (40 passes on it)on the 25th and 26th,
I will leave it in for Warwick.
Otherwise if the clutch is out....
I might make another set of FAT pushrods for the new engine also before running it.
I will see when I get that electrician organized on the lathe$!
matberry ·
Gidday Dave.
Need a sparky?
Matt
dangerous ·
matberry wrote:Gidday Dave.
Need a sparky?
Matt
Hello Matthew,
I have to bring three phase in from the street(about 25m)
and then down to the end of the house.
I have a guy who is coming this week(I hope),
and then I will be set.
It is a major job being that the house needs some upgrades as well,
but it will be great to have a lathe at home.
What is in your air cooled future?
matberry ·
Dave
a suuggestion for your lathe
Bring it to my place
All 3 phase u need
In the 60 x 40 ft shed too!!!
Air cooled project?
Hmmmmm
Starting to piece together some ideas & bits
Too soon to blab!!
Matt🤪
dangerous ·
This is not something that I will be wanting to move any time soon!
Mmm, that shed sounds good for Volksies!
westi ·
that's big,congratulations.i bet u have been busy doing some homework on all the weird and wonderfull things that you can now make on your lathe.
i cant wait to see what come up with.
dangerous ·
Hi Westi,
yes, about 20 years worth of homework.
I actually chose my trade when I left school, rather than university, just so i could make my own Volksy parts.
Good Old Volksies!
matberry ·
And aint he good at it!!
koolkarmakombi ·
How the #$@% did you get it there?
Mine was a bitch enuf, speaking of, been cleaning it up....
If you have toys like that at home what do you have at work?
kkk
koolkarmakombi ·
Davo takes all motor record with custom machined block and crank with 400mm stroke! 😂
Dasdubber ·
At least you have a nice outlook into bushland when you are doing your machining dave - better than four walls and a little window (apart from the cold wind/rain (if we ever get it here in qld)).
alan
dangerous ·
I got a "Franna" crane to take it from the truck and place it exactly where I wanted it.
I paid him to lad up the truck and follow it to my place.
A couple hundred was cheap I thought.
Eventually I will close in the walls, but may use a roller door there so I can open up "the view"
Fitted a new toy to the car today.
Still working out how to make it work.
Information overload.
dangerous ·
dangerous ·
koolkarmakombi wrote:Davo takes all motor record with custom machined block and crank with 400mm stroke! 😂
92mm.
dangerous ·
koolkarmakombi wrote:How the #$@% did you get it there?
Mine was a bitch enuf, speaking of, been cleaning it up....
If you have toys like that at home what do you have at work?
kkk
Man that looks spiff!
I don't work anymore, (unemployed bum)
only hobbies until the dollars run out.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
shame you didn't have the O2 sensor fitted for the dyno day. Would have been interesting to see what she does through the rev range.
dangerous ·
Yes,
I ordered this on the Sunday night,
after realising how much info I could have gathered.
liltimmy1300 ·
Jambo for you this year Dave?
tassupervee ·
Seriously clever move Dave.
You will never regret that purchase.
L8tr
E
dangerous ·
liltimmy1300 wrote:Jambo for you this year Dave?
Yep, raring to go!
Stanley ·
Needs a heads up display.
Let me go downstairs at work and see what I can find....😏
dangerous ·
Today I did some more tinkering with the Oxygen sensor and logger.
Yesterday there were some moments where my temple was throbbing
and the veins were ready to burst from my forhead,
but now all is sweet.
READ INSTRUCTIONS!
Well, that is not entirely my fault since most of this I had to find for myself.
It turns out the unit MUST be re-configured for METHANOL.
All the calibration is on the supplied CD rom,
but I had to program it upstairs and then re-install it in the car.
The other bit was calibrating the tacho signal.
I had to do this on the computer too,
but it took me an hour to find the 'jack plug' for head phones.
They supply a connector to go from your computer to the unit,
and the computer makes a buzz sound that simulates 2000 rpm.
Anyhow, once this was done yesterday,
it recorded the RPM but the Lambda was all over the place.
It started at an Oxygen level that was ball park,
but then went off the scale, and told me: "too rich".
'Innovate' has a forum and after three hours of searching
I came to the conclusion that the Bosch sensor was too far into the stream of gas,
which under normal petrol use should be fine, but this, and the methanol with its poor atomization,
put the sensor outside its temperature parameters.
Long story I know, but I added this piece to the threaded boss...
So that the probe does not protrude...
And now it seems to work supoib.
The orange chunks are Hi-temp exhaust sealer from ther tail pipe flange.
To work best there must be no air leaks.
dangerous ·
Here is a sample log that i took and scanned for your pleasure.
This is just a section of what I logged.
The unit can store up to 44 minutes of data.
The GREEN arrow is where I put it on the 4400 limiter,
The RED arrow is on the 7000 limit two step,
and the BLUE arrow shows the Oxygen sensor Lambda when I shut the fuel off at the end of the log.
matberry ·
Cool logger Dave
So instant looking results
That new boss looks a bit heavy!
Matt
dangerous ·
This 4kg monster?
She is my neighbour Pep.
matberry ·
Oh & I was wondering how she was gunna see over the dash!
OZ Towdster ·
Rumour has it when power fails shes gunna run tha Lathe 1 smacko per hour plus penalties but not till she signs a workplace agreement of coarse hehehehehe
[ Edited on 8-8-07 by A Westwood ]
dangerous ·
This is a log of a 12.07@114.8 run that I bogged the start real bad(1.846 short time).
Black graph is RPM and Purple is air-fuel ratio (lambda)
The red arrow points towards the burnout part of the log.(part throttle so ignore mixture)
Blue arrow points to where the engine bogged down to below 3000 rpm
despite being above 5000 when the clutch bit.
Green lines show the run and the shift points,
while the purple bracket shows the rpm spread as each shift occurs.
The orange lines show how the Lambda varies with rpm as each gear shift occurs.
Without getting too complicated it is obvious that the engine becomes leaner with RPM rise.
The richest point can easily be leaned off,
whilst the leanest point can be changed if required with pill changes in increaments of .002".
Except for a couple of spikes in the air/fuel graph, the curve is generally, way-rich.
Dasdubber ·
So Dave, in terms of interpreting the rpm curve between shifts - I guess how large the dips are between shifts (ie. how much rpm drops) are somewhat dependent on how quickly you change......but can that be used to cross check gear ratio selection?
As per previous conversations, you want the rpm drop to be smaller as you shift up (ie. gears should be closer 3rd to 4th vs 2nd to 3rd etc) right (or am I wrong)? So looking at the rpm 'curve' changing from 1st to 2nd yields approx 2100rpm drop, 2nd to 3rd yields approx 2000rpm drop, then 3rd to 4th shows around 2200rpm drop (hard to tell accurately on screen)......is this sort of interpretation relevant or I am reading too much into it?
On another note, can you briefly explain the rate of rpm rise following each change? I understand in principle when changing from 3rd to 4th it takes longer to build rpms (? load relative to the taller gear) - however I have never really critically thought about it in depth until seeing your graph (I am a visual person that is for sure). So for example would the rate of rpm rise (gradient) be steeper if you had a 4th gear that was closer to 3rd?
I may have the above totally wrong, but I'm here to learn!
Thanks
Alan
dangerous ·
Yes Alan the dips are the gear shifts
and how far down, is the rev drop and is related to the next ratio.
The speed of the shift would be represented by the gradient on the downhill side,
and should be near vertical.
Yes with a curser on the original graph yo can identify the exact RPM at the gear shift
and what the new RPM is on the shift to the next gear.
I will show you next time you drop around.
The 'rate of rise' on the graph for each gear IS represented by the gradient of the graph,
and will be less for each next gear due to increased resistance of primarily the air(due to speed) but marginally from other frictional losses.
A closer ratio(which will make the car accellerate faster), will help to steepen the gradient,
but laws of physics will not allow the gradient to be maintained,
or increased to previous gradients,
unless accelleration rate is increased to the same as that lower gear
with added power(like a BIG shot of nitrous in that upper gear).
My rev drop in 3 to 4 is only marginally closer than 2 to 3
because of my initial choice of stock 1800 ratios when this tranny was assembled some 3 years ago.
So yes you are correct with everything, but the SIZE of the dips is purely ratio related, and the downhill gradient should be vertical but if the shift is slow it will have some gradient away from this.
Stanley ·
What is the ideal lambda for your setup?
dangerous ·
0.87 is the number suposidly. Mine reached this at about 7800 to 8000.
I am thinking that mine will prefer to be a bit richer than that,
but first i will try to get the a-f line a little bit flatter.
It varies between .76 and .81 in top gear, 5750 to 7340rpm.
It got up to .87 in third at 7800.
At this stage i should be able to leanout the mixture with the main pill, and then put a restricter pill in the 'hi-speed'.
dangerous ·
0.87 equals 5.57 A-F ratio. I saw 5.1 going through the finish line at around 7200 to 7300 rpm.
Stoich' for Methanol is 6.4(1.0 Lambda).
tassupervee ·
Dave
Id not expect to see any great gains from getting you AFR's closer to the metho stoich.
A nice property of metho is that it will run and produce good power at far wider variations in mixture than petrol, which is quite fiddly and maximum power is achieved over a very narrow AFR range.
The metho will support power from very rich to surprisingly lean where the very high relative octane rating of the fuel will tend to put off detonation
Id be interested to see what the outcome is of some tweaking to the fuelling on your wagon.
L8tr
E
Dasdubber ·
Thanks for the explanation Dave - I'm sure I'll have many more questions!
dangerous ·
OK,
all my 'foreigners' are done now,
so I can concentrate on my car.
Next job is to pull the transaxle, and change the ratios.
Current diff is :
5.4286
First 2.8333
2nd 1.8125
3rd 1.2609
4th 0.8889
These ratios with the 26" tyre will not be suited to 1/8 mile racing.
ie. too much rpm in 3rd, or not enough in 4th.
Last year I put 28" tyres on so that I could run through the finish in 3rd gear.
But all this did was slow the car down by about 2 tenths.
So this year I will have the 26" tyres,
and build a special 1/8 mile ratio box.
I will upgrade to the 1800 diff ratio for strength:
4.8571
And special gear sets frm Erco in the US.
First 3.3333
2nd 2.1667
3rd 1.5790
4th 1.3182
This equates to 7740rpm in 4th at 93.55mph(best speed last year)
Rev limiter will be left at 8000 (96.69 rpm) unless it wants to go faster than this.
I will post photos as I do the work.
vw54 ·
So your still building the box for Warwick
dangerous ·
HAVN' EVEN STARTED!
vw54 ·
Buggar Will u bringing the D O G up to the drags luv those big eyes
HotRodMatt ·
vw54 wrote:Buggar Will u bringing the D O G up to the drags luv those big eyes
They're not really that big. He just kept the dog in the car for a pass and took that pic after the finish line...
dangerous ·
I am not sure that dogs can get into Warwick...maybe?
I recall Simon from Volksrestore tried to take his Labrador/Retriever down the strip one time (Jamboree from memory) while it was asleep in the front seat of his oval.
Not sure of all the details, but the officials stopped it all...why not said Simon?!
dangerous ·
Today was preliminary wash up of all the replacement parts.
I also welded the synchro hubs onto 3rd and 4th.
I will have to hone the bores and surface grind the faces
to get the end float I want.
Yes that is the Kitchen sink.
The first step was to check the end floats of the gears and adjust accordingly.
I have used needle rollers from a pre 1963 bug box because there are more rollers, they are longer, and have metal cages instead of the plastic ones used in later boxes.
Also the pinion bearing is the later model one with larger rollers and an integral thrust washer for first gear.
That needle bearing under it is for first gear.
Here you can see how much bigger the teeth are on first gear.
Also second gear teeth are massive.
More than strong enough for lots of skids.
The best part about this Erco mainshaft is that it has a spline instead of a key,
but the spline is smaller in diameter than the 002 style.(same as a 091 3rd gear spline).
This enables the hub to be pressed against a shoulder(like 113 boxes with the keys)
rather than against a circlip as in the 002 box.
A special hub is required , but as well as being made from strong steel insead of cast iron,
it also enables the use of either 113 or 002 3rd and 4th gears.
The other advantage was Albins did not have the ratios that I wanted,
and their freight was too dear.
Funny thing is that these are made by Albins and shipped to the USA.
What do you do?
[ Edited on 13-9-2007 by dangerous ]
vw54 ·
thats a nice Staino Kitchen sink mate are you building the box in the FACILITY ???
Dero ·
I have heard somewhere that its cheaper to get Albins gears from the US then from them direct... :duh
Not that I really have any experience with it...
Love the work dangerous
dangerous ·
Dero wrote:I have heard somewhere that its cheaper to get Albins gears from the US then from them direct...
That is not entirely correct.
The Albins gears are excellent quality,
but I have been buying FTC gears through Bergs,
and with the dollar being so good, it was quite a bit cheaper.
The freight was cheaper(US post) than what Albins wanted to send some from down there.
How hard is it to put it in a $7 dollar overnight post bag?
"we would have to charge half an hour shop labour to go to the PO."
To buy Albins gears overseas, the price is more initially,
and the companies that sell over there only use freight companies(not post),
so the cost would be a lot more.
They do have a wider selection of ratios and shaft options in stock over there however.
mactaylor ·
dave u have changed first gear ratio a fair bit was wondering why? its a bit shorter than your last box. Hope your muffins arent prepped on that sink!
dangerous ·
I wanted slightly lower ratio to reduce the chances of bogging the start.
When you factor in the change from 5.4286 diff up to the 4.8571,
then it is not all that much lower.
The 2.8333 with 5.4286 is equal to the 4.8571 with a theoretical 3.167.
The next lowest first available(Not custom order) was a 3.30 that FTC makes.
I have one of them on order,
but this one has a slightly stronger tooth count and closer second gear for 1/8 mile.
Lower gearing will always accelerate faster than taller.
So long as you don't go too far past the peak power,
or unsettle the car out of the hole on the 1-2 shift.
[ Edited on 13-9-2007 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
mactaylor wrote:Hope your muffins arent prepped on that sink!
The real truth is that the sink is actually down stairs in my work space.
It is a "kitchen" sink, so it is not a complete lie.
Muffins are made in the kitchen, and I even wash my hands!
Boostn ·
mactaylor wrote:Hope your muffins arent prepped on that sink!
A little Tip......
There are no blue berries in the blue berry muffins!
Ha Ha.........
[ Edited on 14/9/2007 by Boostn ]
matberry ·
Go the Muffin man.
I think your motor may wake the sleeping dog as opposed to the Groover's '54!
Matt
dangerous ·
Boostn wrote:
mactaylor wrote:Hope your muffins arent prepped on that sink!
A little Tip......
There are no blue berries in the blue berry muffins!
Ha Ha.........
[ Edited on 14/9/2007 by Boostn ]
😂:puke
dangerous ·
With the old tranny apart, here you can see the difference
between the old mainshaft and new on the right.
I re-shimmed the pinion to move the pattern to where I want it.
This pinion came with a 0.4mm shim, and when I reduced the backlash the pattern mover back toward the heel.
So I added another 0.2mm (new shim 0.6mm),
and now the pattern is back to where it should be, just favouring the nose.
This is with .002" backlash.
Assembled gear stacks(wrong thrust shim on 4th)
A couple of different views of the Berg intermediate housing.
I bought and fitted this in 1993.
It came new from Bergs with the repair sleeve welded in from new.
"send all the shite to Australia"
Here I had to clearance the reverse shift rod to clear the nose cone.
[ Edited on 15-9-2007 by dangerous ]
[ Edited on 15-9-2007 by dangerous ]
dangerous ·
This is the fork for 1st and second gear.
It needed clearance ground on it to stop from rubbing on the bottom of the case.
This is a simple hardened sleeve used to adapt the early shaft diameter to the late bearing.
This photo shows where it will go.
But the thrust washer it should have, is the later one for the larger shaft.
Otherwise(so I found!), the sleeve will sit up too high.
The sleeve needs to 'seat' on the bearing race below, and the larger diameter thrust washer slides OVER the sleeve.
This is an early Bus reverse idler gear.
It IS wafer thin.
This was the only type that would clear the original 1.81 second gear.
But I still needed to counterbore it to get full engagement in the later 091 gear case.
I welded an ear onto the Bus fork so it would work with the bug linkage,
and used an 8mm FW dowel-reamer to make the hole.
I still needed to chamfer the Albins gear to make it all fit,
and some slight chamfer on the reverse idler as well.
Yes that is a dog hair.
In the tranny jig all working.
You can see with the new gear that it all clears fine,
and also where the reverse idler gear is clearanced,
Layed the teeth back a little on the large gear to clear the fatter shaft.
Old 5.4286 pinion on the left,
new 4.857 on the right.
Note thicker teeth.
This is even more dramatic difference between the 5.4286, and a 2 litre 4.57 pinion on the right.
Sorry about the cob webs.
There is an even larger 4.83 that has fatter teeth(26/6 tooth count) from a 5 speed bus.
This shows the areas requiring clearance in the bus case for the Berg 'Bus 600' intermediate housing kit.
[ Edited on 15-9-2007 by dangerous ]
Boostn ·
Nice Dave.
new cover too?
keep it coming allllll the secrets........................haha
nbturbo ·
Those sort of pics are what allow "Legends" to be created.Beautiful work.Hope the pinion with the dog hair on it is in the retirement bin.
dangerous ·
The thin plate in the nose cone is purely for alignment.
The main mount point is at the intermediate housing.
Counterbored coupling sleeve to clear the splines in the mainshaft.
Circlip way in there.
Extended clutch lever.
Bolt on flange retainers instead of circlips and beveled washers.
All done,
now to bolt it into the car.
This is not a show car as you can probably see.
This shows all the bracing up to the cage back stays,
and also scatter sheild....DOH...engine back out..
scatter sheild on...
Ah! Engine finally back in.
Mega mission of a day.
[ Edited on 15-9-2007 by dangerous ]
11CAB ·
Here's another bus into bug adaptor on a buggy in america.
dangerous ·
Photo descriptions all updated from Yesterday.
Stanley ·
4.19 am on a Sunday....don't you ever sleep
dangerous ·
Up early to get out into the bush.
Thats the only time I stop frowning.
Been up Wilsons Peak today.
Dasdubber ·
Nice detail Dave - it is nice for all of us (myself included) to see how important the finer details are in g'box building. Once a box is buttoned up and in a car, one doesn't appreciate all the work involved in getting it right. Good stuff!
vw54 ·
great pics Dave the gears look good
I think the Albins gears are cheaper to the US because they buy 400 sets at a time
dangerous ·
Well, the gearbox worked supoib.
Most runs it went thru the finish on the 8000 limiter in 4th gear.
Those are the runs that were above 94mph...see how many were at 95.54mph!
Still stuggling to get it off the line, 'clean' with the two-step,
but got a lot of data recorded, and some personal best speeds (and ET's for Warwick).
Last year best at Warwick was 7.395@93.55,
and best ever in good air at Willowbank is 7.157@94.5, which was my 11.30 run@118.2
Saturday:
7.647@93.17mph
7.572@94.54
7.022@???? erroneous time card, but was crap anyhow.
7.274@94.73 (PB speed and ET at Warwick)
7.218@95.54 good run, on the limiter thru finish, 1.586 sixty foot.
Sunday: 7.35 dial-in
7.558@93.94 Too lean? WIN
7.583@94.14 WIN
7.227@95.54 on limiter (1.56 sixty) BREAK-OUT
7.327@95.54 on limiter BREAK-OUT
[ Edited on 30-9-2007 by dangerous ]
vassy66T1 ·
Very good runs all day Dave!
Loved what everyone did but certainly appreciated the professional way you go about it.
Were you pretty happy with the relative consistency?
Bigger and better next year.
dangerous ·
Thanks vassy66T1,
very happy with engine performance.
I still have to do some homework on the startline procedure
to avoid the bogging starts.
I was using 7000 on the startline in the end and it still bogged on some of those runs.
This is very tough on the tranny.
Perhaps if the car was a little lighter (currently 813kg)
or the clutch could slip a little I might get away with it.
I think with Willowbank's better air it may work.
Shame it is not as fun as racing at Warwick track.
Stanley ·
dangerous wrote:Perhaps if the car was a little lighter (currently 813kg)
or the clutch could slip a little I might get away with it.
Now we know where all the muffins went......🤪
Boostn ·
dangerous wrote:Well, the gearbox worked supoib.
Most runs it went thru the finish on the 8000 limiter in 4th gear.
Those are the runs that were above 94mph...see how many were at 95.54mph!
Still stuggling to get it off the line, 'clean' with the two-step,
but got a lot of data recorded, and some personal best speeds (and ET's for Warwick).
Last year best at Warwick was 7.395@93.55,
and best ever in good air at Willowbank is 7.157@94.5, which was my 11.30 run@118.2
Saturday:
7.647@93.17mph
7.572@94.54
7.022@???? erroneous time card, but was crap anyhow.
7.274@94.73 (PB speed and ET at Warwick)
7.218@95.54 good run, on the limiter thru finish, 1.586 sixty foot.
Sunday: 7.35 dial-in
7.558@93.94 Too lean? WIN
7.583@94.14 WIN
7.227@95.54 on limiter (1.56 sixty) BREAK-OUT
7.327@95.54 on limiter BREAK-OUT
[ Edited on 30-9-2007 by dangerous ]
Congrats Dave,
All that work rebuilding the box was worth it hey.
What was the track like?
How did you go with tech?
dangerous ·
Hi Nick,
Yes the work with the box was where most of the gains came from i think.
Engine really liked it up around 8000 in 4th gear.
Plus I could go there with the confidence of new gears that did not have 100 runs on them.
The track was especially sticky on Sunday,
and on Saturday depite blasting the tyres out of the hole once I wound up the 2-step,
it was still fast off the line(1.58 I think).
Luckilly Simon(V8 Bug Fame) could do my tech for me at home,
and only had some minor saftey improvement suggestions.
Remembering I had run 147mph in this car it just needs some minor updates, but nothing illegal.
dangerous ·
I did my oil change and tappets yesterday
and I am good to go for Jamboree re-run on the 3rd of Nov.
Filter was very clean and only one tappet needed adjustment.
It was .001" loose.
Hardly worth adjusting.
The engine saw 8000 so many times at Warwick I lost count.
There WAS one dog I saw at the track, he probably heard it,
and also when Aaron missed a gear shift... he prob heard that too(infinity plus one)
dangerous ·
Stanley wrote:
dangerous wrote:Perhaps if the car was a little lighter (currently 813kg)
or the clutch could slip a little I might get away with it.
Now we know where all the muffins went......🤪
Sorry fellas,
I did have a bunch of chocolate and macamadamia muffins
and some sesame slice to share around,
but forgot to offer.
Some people did get to try them, so I did not keep them all to my self.
I DID gorge three on the way home for sustanence though.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
I was one of the lucky ones and they were well and trully made to the muffin man's usual high standard:thumb
mactaylor ·
man am I pissed off! if I could have been there I would have but of course my boss said no i cant go, man he is a prick! lucky I get all of you to fill me in. Dave when you say it was still hard to get out of the hole, how was your tune down low? now that u have a data logger was it a bit fat? not u of course, last years track prep doesnt seem as good as most national strips. when I look in the mirror next im gunna have a stern word with my boss and make sure next year i am there and i am competing!
dangerous ·
Hello mactaylor,
My tune down low is a little rich,
but I was leaving the line at 7000 rpm on the 2-step....at which point the mixture is good.
The nature of these 2-step things is an ignition miss,
so they make less power that if it was free reving.
I can leave the line around 5000 using just the pedal if I slide out the clutch,
but my consistency is erratic.
I am trying to devise a throttle stop that holds ropm steady without the miss.
The yanks just raise the RPM limit on launch if the track becomes stickier.
Perhaps I should just pump up my tyres.
...surely I cant leave the line higher than 7000??!!
dangerous ·
dangerous wrote:
This is not something that I will be wanting to move any time soon!
Mmm, that shed sounds good for Volksies!
Well,
I finally got my electricity hooked up,
and tested the lathe out for the first time today.
This is a bus nose cone that I machined off to make it flat again.
You can get these steel 'thrust plate's to help retain the bearing, and prevent the nose cone flogging out in future.
In the end it cost me more to hook up the power for the lathe, than the actual lathe price!
But now there is nothing stopping me.
What stroke do you think I should make?
BeetleJuice ·
Bigger than the last one!:thumb
By the way,what size was the last one again.....90something?
Dasdubber ·
I bet your new "toy" will keep you more than busy Dave!!
matberry ·
Hows 96 sound?
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
100 x 100... perfect LOL
matberry ·
Now thats silly but I do like a round number!:thumb
mactaylor ·
new crank hey! you probably should get some measurements off the kiwi boys for your new 5" bore spacing block. I reckon bout 105 X 101.6 sounds about nice. 3.5 ltr ALL motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
matberry wrote:Now thats silly but I do like a round number!:thumb
makes for a very smooth revving engine with bore = stroke.
Imagine that though 4" bore and 4" stroke.....
Does the word torque come to mind LOL
dangerous ·
I have made two cranks in the past.
The first was a 90mm one which I have in reserve in storage,
and the current one is 82.5mm which was made to add strength when the engine was supercharged.
I am thinking of going up to 92mm.
The bore is currently 4.03" = 102.36mm
It will most likely stay within a .25mm of that depending on cylinder wear.
mactaylor ·
dave whats the go with your old tube frame car? is it still on the market if not please inform us as to its presnt owners plans!
dangerous ·
That car is no longer on the market.
It will be returned to the track at some point with possibly normally aspirated power. 🤓
mactaylor ·
so who what when and where????????
Boostn ·
dangerous wrote:That car is no longer on the market.
It will be returned to the track at some point with possibly normally aspirated power. 🤓
Good to hear Dave.
That spare Pauter engine will work well in a light tube car.
There is also a tittle involved if I was a betting man.
So does this mean it will be another junka?
hellbugged ·
hmmmmmmmm, just built a second kombi box too Dave😏........
good news to hear that the tube car will be reinstated, looking forward to it!
dangerous ·
dangerous wrote:That car is no longer on the market.
It will be returned to the track at some point with possibly normally aspirated power. 🤓
This was just a bit of a bump steer!
Sorry to "play the game".
I did not say that I was keeping it,
or that it will use my engine.
Most likely it will not be me driving it either!
Boostn ·
dangerous wrote:
dangerous wrote:That car is no longer on the market.
It will be returned to the track at some point with possibly normally aspirated power. 🤓
This was just a bit of a bump steer!
Sorry to "play the game".
I did not say that I was keeping it,
or that it will use my engine.
Most likely it will not be me driving it either!
bum steer hey? or is this a bum steer?
driving but not driving?
I think this is all tooooo shifty?
what are you up to?
why so many spare gearboxes?
why the new crank?
we are onto you Dave..........
LOL !
kidding
humpty ·
Bloody hell Dave.... You can't leave us hangin' dude!!!!
Dasdubber ·
So Dave could it be heading to the garage of another racer.......maybe a qld'er? 😉
Heading to the north side of brissy maybe to keep another vw drag car company whilst it waits for tyres for its first race in oz?? 😊
humpty ·
You bugger Alan.... Tell us damn it!
Dasdubber ·
It may just be another bum steer 🤓
humpty ·
My mother always said I should never trust a Queenslander!!!! 😂😂😂
Boostn ·
Hey Humpy,
All I'm hearing is bums and Queenslanders................
is there something we should know about then😂
humpty ·
Boostn wrote:Hey Humpy,
All I'm hearing is bums and Queenslanders................
is there something we should know about then😂
I dunno Nick.... Its not a combination I know a lot about!!!!😂
dangerous ·
The truth is that the car is in the process of being sold,
hence the words : "that car is no longer on the market".
Once 'paid for', I will do the repairs to the point where any engine and trans could be mounted.
The tranny best for the job will be of the bus variety,
and WHAT engine, depends on who has one spare at the time.
I could easily lend out an engine since my current one will be retired after the Jamboree on 3rd Nov
and is super reliable and consistent.
More comp will be its next mods.
New crankshaft is just a possible future long term project.
My biggest engine from the past has been 2965cc and it would be nice to say "I had a 3 litre"(3030.77cc)
My present 5.85 Pauter Rods will fit fine with 3.625 stroke,(92.075mm) and really help out of the hole.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Ahh the suspense I love it!! All I know is it will definately be on the track in the not too distant future running the quick numbers it is capable of.
I didn't give anything away did I Dangerous???😂😂
mactaylor ·
dave dont worry all things you type on this forum will stay on this forum promise!!!! I wont tell a soul!
Stanley ·
Dave's not the only one keeping his cards close to his chest.
What about a certain turbo'd import over the northside....and from what i'm lead to believe it's not the only one...😏
Warwick is certain to even bigger and better next year.....so the rumour has it.....😵
humpty ·
Bloody hell..... 😬
dangerous ·
humpty wrote:Bloody hell..... 😬
Calm down Simon.
Rod Richardson will be the new owner,
and he already has a Bus Box and healthy engine that will bolt straight in.
Plans at this stage are to deliver it to him back as a roller, and I will do the upgrades to the cage
and make a new front beam from chromoly tube rather than a strut front.
These plans can easily change, time will tell!😘
dangerous ·
Most have seen these, but to refresh memories...
How it used to look :
bond ·
cool dave. rod has done well.
nick
BeetleJuice ·
Kool! 😎 Rod's Pro Stocker!!!!!!!!!
A little off topic but where is Michael Nash's Pro Stocker?
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
BeetleJuice wrote:Kool! 😎 Rod's Pro Stocker!!!!!!!!!
A little off topic but where is Michael Nash's Pro Stocker?
Prolly sitting in a shed gathering dust while he is playing with Jet Ski's from what I last heard
dangerous ·
I removed the engine and tranny yesterday to change the gearbox ratios to some 1/4 mile ones.
After the good results from warwick I have decided to let the engine turn some more RPM.
The new ratios will be:
4.857 diff:
3.3333
2.1667
1.500
1.091
This will have the engine turning at 8100 at my best speed of 118.2 (old revs 7400),
and for this reason the engine will have the MSD rev limiter raised to 8200.
The only bad thing was the step from 2nd to 3rd is ever so slightly larger,
but the fact that every gear is now lower,
should allow the car to accellerate faster,
and not be effected by the rev drop into 3rd.
Also every other ratio is closer than it was with the previous quarter mile ratios.
The other thing I found was that the mainshaft bearing had thrusted forward about 3mm,
on one of my runs at Warwick when I bogged the launch.
So I have fitted a steel thrust plate ,
and machined the nose cone to allow for the thickness.
Normally the nose cone does this job,
but in the past I had hand clearanced it
when I accidently fitted the bearing with the cage protruding.
It therefore only had a small amount of material retaining the bearing,
This will prevent this occurring again.
I wondered what that noise was!?
matberry ·
How the hell you heard it I'll never know.
Must be the muffins producing hyposensitive hearing!
Mate I hadn't seen the old tube car.
Looks hot.
Can we still locate 1pce sedan f/glass bonnet and if so any idea $$ ?
dangerous ·
matberry wrote:How the hell you heard it I'll never know.
Must be the muffins producing hyposensitive hearing!
Mate I hadn't seen the old tube car.
Looks hot.
Can we still locate 1pce sedan f/glass bonnet and if so any idea $$ ?
I could hear a whining noise when I was coasting to a stop with the engine off.
This is also a symptom of a crownwheel and peanut on the way south.
Atlough THEY normally also cause a jerky inconsistent whine because normally only a few teeth start to pull before disaster.
The Current 'glass front I have came from a mould that is owned by Mike Waldron.
He works for Vintage....PH 02 97891777... I think.
I can't quite remember how much it cost...perhaps a grand?...not really sure, that's just a guess.
humpty ·
Good to see it's going to a good home Dave.... Sure wish it was coming to my home.... But there you go.... Can't have it all!
Keep it up mate!
dragvw2180 ·
Hey Dave,
I had to change the gear ratios to what my trans runs to really understand what you were running. If I was running your gearset in my type 1 trans the stack would be 3.88 r/p, 4.295 first,2.705 second,1.88 third, 1.365 forth,wow !!!!!! Now those are some serious gears.
Mike
dangerous ·
Hi Mike,
Yes it shouldbe interesting!
I will let you know how it works when I run again on the 3rd of Nov.
dragvw2180 ·
Hopefully I can send you some good news also,Just came in the house from finishing the trans, race in 2 weeks in Ga, good luck with yours, Mike
dangerous ·
What ratios and pro rings did you go for with your turbo combo Mike?
dragvw2180 ·
Hey Dave,
I went back with the same ones I had, 3.88/ 3.78, 2.31,1.58,1.21 on a 26 inch tire. Only the second gear is pro ringed ,have synchros in 3rd and 4th. Dave Kawell removed the original welds off and rewelded it back with chomemolly rather than the stainless welds ( broke the welds last run) that were on the second gear before. I have the tranny ready to install,will be going back Sunday for testing, then off to Georgia next weekend for the race. Mike
dangerous ·
One more sleep.
I think it is going to be a hot day.
So much for going faster.
Oh well, at least more track time for the cain machine.
dangerous ·
Well yes it was VERY hot out there,
but my first pass was an 11.72,
but with the new shorter gears it went 8000 thru the traps with a speed of 117.65,
which was promising being how hot it was and the poor launch.
Next round I bunged in a 7300 start line chip and the car peeled off a great 11.36@117.96.(1.55 short time)
This made me very happy,
so for the last qualifyer I bunged in a 8000 shift light and leaned off the fuel mixture,
because the air quality had continued to decline.
Whilst the car did feel lazy/lean on the shift into each subsequent gear,
it did launch well(1.53 sixty foot), and when it hit the 8200 limiter going thru the traps I knew the speed would be good too:
11.25@119.9
Car was 1780lbs = 809kg...that power is not bad!
For the first round I put some fuel back into the curve because the air began to cool off,
and it again went 1.55 in the 60 foot but I was able to back off to take the win with 11.55@106mph.
Second round I had my hopes up but trashed the tranny on the start line.
Oh well, it is a cain machine after all!
Boostn ·
That's fast Dude!!
7300 out of the hole in a heavy car????
poor nose cone................
how do you fix this?
congrats on the PB, that's fast and in the heat too......
dangerous ·
Unfortunately it looks like I will have to buy a new housing from the Bergs.
I have had this one since late '93 I think.
but it is the CAUSE inside that makes my wallet squeal.
11.721@117.65 (7.569@94.3 and 1.839 sixty...bogged)
11.361@117.96 (7.209@94.3 and 1.550 sixty...7300 launch) (good wheely!) (same tune on fuel as Warwick)
11.251@119.90 (7.145@94.66 & 1.539 sixty) (had leaned of main pill by .002" due to 2518 ft RA)
11.512@106.61 (7.221@94.54 & 1.551 sixty Back off for the win) (changed pill back for cooler afternoon air)
Last run only got a .524 reaction, and lots of munching sounds....did a good skid but.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Very nice skids all day mate and car just sounds soo damm tough off the line with big rpm on board.(always brings a smile to my face hearing it hehehehe)
Congrats on the PB Dave, hopefully the damage isn't too extensive. 👍
edit: Just read the cal-look post 🙁 Guess you'll just have to build it to go faster now.
mactaylor ·
bugger I read the callook post seems old mate has some good advice with the thrust limiting spacers. what about fabbing up a over the top brace as well miight take some of the pressure off the berg housing, I know that clamping presure is the best but the case also flexes under shock load and makes all applied mechanical grip null and void. I reckon you can weld that housing up just take your time and get it hot! 8 bucks worth of rods and your muffin oven will do it. plenty of meat left to machine back!
mactaylor ·
by the way who is paul guard?
RAZ34 ·
I cant add any technical advice but I was in the other lane on Daves last qualifier and it looked fast.
dangerous ·
mactaylor wrote:by the way who is paul guard?
Paul, also known as "gears" and "Pablo", on Samba and Shoptalk,
has been a prominent tranny expert for many years.
I still have some stories he wrote for Hot VW's mag back in the eighties.
His shop was based in Hawaii back then
but now he has a shop on the mainland that makes hypo parts for mainly Porsche stuff,
but still has some nice LSD s in the works for the type one swingaxle.
Have a search for his photos on "the Samba".
dangerous ·
I hate that when you spent your food money on shiney bits,
and then suddenly you need to come up with some more for other tranny parts one day later!
humpty ·
Damn Davo... Thats some shitty luck, but Paul's ideas are solid as you no doubt know... I huge help he has been on Shoptalk... If your thinking of fitting that steel intermediate mount/gusset through the case, you could get one laser cut using the contour of the gasket.... I have one here that was made for my bus box and its nice POK.... I'm sure you could built mounts into the profile without any issues....
Top work on the times there Dave....🙂
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Well Dangerous if you are going to do a job then you certainly do it properly LOL. tough luck on the sad parts list. Although at least the gear sets are ok👍
davidoconnor ·
Great times Dave, sorry to hear about the box.
How about a vertigate shifter? This could be the perfect opportunity! Something else for you to play around with and it could save some shift time!
All those bucks for a Berg housing would go a long way towards a vertigate.
mactaylor ·
dave if you dont mind giving out your secrets what valving are you running in your shocks?
dangerous ·
No secrets Mac,
the front shocks are stock oil shocks from KYB,
and the rears are KYB gas 'off road' that I got from Vintage many moons ago.
Neither are adjustable as far as I can tell.
It is amazing how close to stock settings 'right' is.
when you start using higher spring rates,
then better shocks are needed, but I am happy with my set up
with the only major change being the 30mm bars.
And those large bars were only there because I swapped my 26mm ones to Pete to try.
Heavier cars or more torque needs more spring rate.
The 26mm ones were what was in when I was running the blower.
Although in hind sight I would have put in the 30mm bars earlier.
dangerous ·
The only changes from these photos are the wheely bars, brakes,
and I cut off one of the snrubs off the bus bump stop....that last change was a huge benefit.
Dasdubber ·
So Dave, its been a while - what have you been up to?
Any progress on the tranny rebuild?
dangerous ·
Nothing productive Alan,
still waiting on the guy from Canada to respond to my emails.
He makes a new housing and Bergs have no stock.
If I don't hear anything next week,
I may have to make something from wood!
Stanley ·
Can it be made here?
dangerous ·
That may be my only choice soon. I would like to make them from steel.
Of interest is that yesterday, the 30th of November was 5 years since I crashed my car.
And nearly 8 years since I ran in the 9's for the first time.
All the old timers are right...time does fly, the older you get.
mactaylor ·
how and when? and do you want a hand with making a new intermediate housing? I do a lot of laser cut work so fitting some more in wont be a prob, the folding of a case will be fun but otherwise dont see any probs.shit it will be tuff. pm me if you want a hand. Bit bloody heavy though there is quite a few non ferous foundries around that can cast off originals!
dangerous ·
Thanks for the offers and ideas gentlemen,
I may take you up on those offers of your skills some time.
I found a fellow in Oregon, that makes the castings, and have one on the way.
Also LanD has got back to me and that one is on the way also,
so I will have a spare.
mactaylor ·
dave i cant pm you please ring me on 0427 718508!
dangerous ·
Just got this message, you have PM.
dangerous ·
Finally received my housing today!
Very high quality item!
dangerous ·
dangerous ·
dangerous ·
You can see how they have used threaded plugs and dowels which is a nice addition.
Also they have machined every surface with a curve where possible.
Where material is not needed, it has been removed,
and where strength is required, it is quite substantial.
nbturbo ·
Absolute beauty and top quality machining by the looks.
dangerous ·
Yep...now all I have left to worry about is where my next meal will come from!
555bug ·
Dave I take it this is the new CNC'ed intermediate housing from land for an 091? I have sent them some emails as I want to run a bug nose cone on my 091 with lots of trick bits. Thank you for sharing the photos, its looks like it is well worth the money and considerably better than the Berg item which I believe is case (not 100%). When I get the $$ together for my gear set I'm sure I will need to ask you many questions 🙂
Stephen
dangerous ·
This one is to suit the 002 bus trans.(fits with 091 case, but not 091 internals without using a spacer)
Apparently the late 002 and 091 are in the works.
It is a nicer unit than the Berg cast one,
but the Bergs (when available) is a complete kit,
and works fine, for less money,(if you don't abuse it with internal injuries like I did!)
Stanley ·
nice...
dragvw2180 ·
Hey Dave,
Did you say that it was made of steel or alum ? Looks to really be a nice piece.
Mike
humpty ·
dangerous wrote:That may be my only choice soon. I would like to make them from steel.
Of interest is that yesterday, the 30th of November was 5 years since I crashed my car.
And nearly 8 years since I ran in the 9's for the first time.
All the old timers are right...time does fly, the older you get.
Shit mate.... Thats my birthday!.... Its prolly a good thing I didn't buy the tube car then.... Its prolly got bad mojo for me!!!.... If your a superstitious kinda guy...
dangerous ·
dragvw2180 wrote:Hey Dave,
Did you say that it was made of steel or alum ? Looks to really be a nice piece.
Mike
Hi Mike,
It is aluminium.
Seems like pretty good quality material and machining.
Hope to have it back in the car with in the week!
DB.
Boostn ·
How can a piece of alloy get us soooo excited?
Is it normal for a piece of alloy to be so sexy?
It meant to do a job but looks so good!!!
Lane does good work!
How is the other one you ordered Dave?
dangerous ·
Hi Nick,
the other housing, that is a cast version, is due to leave the USA tomorrow.
I ordered it in case the Canadian ones never eventuated, but I will still use it as a back-up" in case".
So far there have been a couple of minor issues with the billet housing,
but nothing major.
I will show the details in a couple of days when I finish assembly.
dangerous ·
The first step was to round up all the replacement parts I needed for the rebuild.
Other than the spiffy intermediate housing, I needed a few stock parts to replace what had suffered in the carnage.
I needed:
fresh 2 lt case, This one has the thicker tapered ribs:
Unlike this one that has much thinner ribs.
They are a similar age, must just be a different mould.
fresh 1800 crownwheel and peanut,
fresh input shaft and joiner stud,
early nose cone(one without the seal)
various studs and bearings,
1/2 shift fork and rod,
3/4 shift fork.
I also had a new ERCO spool to replace the heavy superdiff.
First step was to get the pinion to the correct depth by shim under the pinion bearing.
This time I have moved the pinion closer to the crownwheel than stock
to account for the pattern being too close to the nose when the back lash is reduced.
Here is the resulting pattern:
dangerous ·
The next step was to carry out a modification as recommended by Paul Guard in the USA
Once the pinion shim was set, I had to recheck the gear stack on the pinion,
so that all the gears and hubs were at their correct position to make 4th gear at its final height.
The spring spacer inder 4th gear was replaced with a solid sleeve
that has its height such that I can only just turn it with multi-grips when the end circlip is fitted.
This is important because the face of 4th gear
will be used as a secondary thrust limiting surface against the new intermediate housing.
I flipped 4th gear over, and machined the shoulder and face to locate a 40hp first gear thrust washer.
this one has the nubs ground off the outside edge so they wont interfer with the 1.09 fourth gear teeth.
This washer will "bear" against a swinaxle side gear thrust washer(again, with its nub ground off,
and a couple of 36hp flywheel shims will controll the clearance.
The red arrows point yto the 36er shims and these are ground down on the outside diameter
and deburred to be the same as the thick one (green arrow).
A recess has been machined in the inside of the housing to locate the shims and diff washer:
Here the shim stack is all sitting in place and lubed with oil.
The diameter of the recess is such that they can turn freely.
The depth of this groove took a lot of measurement and guesswork to acheive.
Paul suggests, once assembled,
there should be between .002" and .004" clearance between the shims.
I determined that with a .002" thicker shim,
that the pinion was quite stiff to turn, (so went to a thinner one)
and I was able to bend the end of a 3 thou feeler and just wedge it between the shims.
One reason for the shims, is so that you have some adjustability to get the end clearance just right.
I would imagine that the shims would also progressively slow down the surface speed as they turned
so as not to wear away at the aluminium under thrust.
Paul says it should only thrust against the housing off the start, and perhaps at the beginning of 2nd gear.
I had to spoon the drain back hole since the shims nearly covered it.
I also added a chrome Moly pinion bearing nut for added strength,
although Paul suggests the new thrust set up will not require it.
For an extra $66 plus freight, I thought it worth while addition.
Once I had all this sorted I could continue.
The gear case needs a lot of clearance to use this type of housing.
This is due to the beetle shift rods and forks being on the opposite side
of the car compared to what the bus was designed for.
It helps to clearance the forks a bit as well, and the 1/2 shift rod needs to be cut short,
since it normallt goes through the housing for support.
dangerous ·
Here is an old photo of the clearancing in my old case.
Around two hours of trial and error work with the die grinder.
The 'LanD' Housing is a very nice piece,
but I had to deal with a few issues.
The bearing hole was a little tight for the pinion.
This caused the bearing to be too tight when I went to slide the housing over the pinion.
So I had to shim about .001 from its bore.
The inside of the housing is a tight fit as far as forks clearance goes.
My guess is that this is intentional to aid strength.
But I has to put a small chamfer here:
And clearance the 3/4 fork in these areas.
No big deal.
The other slight issue was the holes where the bolts(studs) go through into the two litre case
were ever-so slighty-out.
I am guessing these are drilled when the whole thing begins from a 3" thick chunk of 7075.
Only 3 holes needed a slight rub with a rat-tail file.
Again, no big deal, one minute of work.
Lastly, the grub screw for the pinion bearing dowel hole
that is supplied really needs a shoulder.
When tightening this, it distorts the bearing, so i made a shouldered one with a washer to solve this issue.
Fitted:
dangerous ·
The rest of the assembly was trouble free.
The nose cone was machined flat to account for the thickness of the thrust plate that limits mainshaft bearing movement.
Here it is in the jig to adjust the forks, inluding reverse.
The 2lt case I had lying around for about 15 years had some corrosion,
so I buzzed it with the die grinder before final washing and insertion of the gear assembly.
Then the crownwheel assembly and input shaft are installed .
I set the backlash to .002", which is what I used when determining my pinion shim.
Then I quickly double checked that the pattern was still correct
in case the bearing was not fully seated, or if perhaps the shim had been lost or mixed up.
All AOK:
This time I have retained the bell housing using 15mm hex nuts for the 8mm threads,
these are nuts and washers from VW head studs.
I am hoping this will assist the case strength for maintaining crownwheel mesh.
dangerous ·
I made these spacers to go under the drive flanges.
I ended having to make a second set, so they are the same diameter as the seal surface on the flange.
These ones pushe the flange out too fat and the oil seal would have leaked.
The spacers were so that the end of the spline was flush with the flange,
And then I can use bolts to retain the flange rather than a circlip.
I have since replaced these bolts with higher grade Allen Bolts.
dangerous ·
I had better go down stairs and get that sucker installed in the car!
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
The master at work yet again. I might not follow exactly every little thing you do dangerous but just love reading about all the little things you do to try and make a relaible box!! Attention to detail is something I can relate to.
mactaylor ·
good stuff! better get my arse into gear got stuff to do this week free next will ring soon. by the way what stops you or any one using a standard kombi intermediate housing other than shift rod height? man that looks great, talk to you soon.
dangerous ·
Hi Mac,
the housing its self is not a problem, it is the shift linkage design under the nose cone that is the problem.
Where a bug has the hockey stick conecting directly to the shift rods,
a bus tranny has the hockey stick connecting to a 'shift rail', that in turn hooks the shift rods.
The bus set up can be improved, by renewing some parts that wear, and updating some things,
but it will never like fast shifts....especially up to third gear.
Although...
Pete has been driving the chop top beetle for some time with the stock bus housing.
It will be upgraded though before it runs again.
For you, and the 1/8 mile,
an 1800 box with close ratio 3rd and 4th might be a good starting point.
You can always upgrade the housing at a later time, with better mainshaft, and intermediate housing, diff etc, etc.
So many options and so little time!!
dragvw2180 ·
Hey Dave,
I can see one of those boxes in my future,will be buggin the hell out of you with questions,hahahah
As always ,you save us all time by teaching us how to do it right and save us the aggravation of having to find out the hard way how to make the parts live.
Mike
dangerous ·
Any secrets I have are available to you Mike,(and anyone who asks)
063bug ·
sweet work Dave and love the attention to detail.... I'm assuming this box is going in YOUR drag car? are you anticipating a heap more power or are you just chasing reliabiliy and less stress worrying about transmission detonation?
dangerous ·
Hi Alan,
just making things better.
When ever I break something(pretty rare) I always look at what to do to make it better.
Some times things wear out, but in this case I NEEDED to make it better.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
That way it willl now handle 7500rpm launches all day long eh Dangerous!!!
dangerous ·
That's the plan!
Actually 7800.
Stanley ·
round it up to an even 8000....😎
dangerous ·
I noticed on one of Das' videos that Shawn Geers uses a startline chip the same as his shift point.
9000?
The shift lite is on when it is on the start rpm.
Pro Stock V8's use 8600 out of the hole, but my wallet is pretty bare right now,
so I don't want it to become a vacuum in there.
Black Hole material.
Wouldnt be the first hole that sucked up money.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Black holes???? Isn't that having a car to compete in motorsport?????
dangerous ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Black holes???? Isn't that having a car to compete in motorsport?????
Women dude. Women.
westi ·
comedian and perfectionist.what more could you ask for.
your work speaks for itself as per usuall.love it.
can't wait to see the next vid's with some high revin launches.
dangerous ·
Thought you guys would like that one.
Pagey said he thinks he has my 11.25 run on CD, so I hope he can load it up onto you tube for us.
westi ·
cool,can't wait
pete wood ·
where abouts are this LanD mob dave?
dangerous ·
Canadia
dangerous ·
Still waiting on the Video,
but I can wait,
since Pete is flat-out trying to get his car ready for Portland.
And I won All Motor at the Mini-Jam with the car intact.
Only change from last year was the spool,
and some fine tuning.
After the first two qualifyers,
I opened the "High-Speed" less than 1/8 turn on the adjuster, to reduce the pressure that it opens by 1 to 2 psi.
This is to try and level off the fuel pressure once peak power is acheived.
I also lifted the launch RPM from previous by 200 to 7500
and the top limit to 8400.
Engine felt great.
11.257 @ 120.06 off the trailer (personal best was 11.251 @ 119.9)
11.302 @ 118.51 same set up and felt fast, perhaps a slight bog once the clutch locke up but that is what the time card says!
11.006 @ 121.46 YAY!
Eliminations:
11.057 @ 121.20
11.080 @ 119.71 (hit the limiter a bit to hard in 3rd)
11.477 @ 119.46 ( got out of shape off the line but recovered for the win) Wheely bars neded adjusting.
11.226 @ 120.38 (clutch slid a bit off the line and hit the limiter a few times)
Sixty foot times for the day:
1.529
1.551
1.510 (nearly as good as 1.505 PB)
1.553
1.528
1.632(nearly hit the tree!!)
1.589 (slid the clutch)
Best 1/8 mile was 6.980 & 97.74
dangerous ·
Car weighed 1768 lbs (803kg)
Engine power equates to 247 with the best speed of 121.46 mph.
This should be around 217 to 230 at the wheels depending on which universe to come from.
13BVW ·
Congrats on the win Dave the car sounded sweet all day(bit like a rotary when idleing😂)
Stanley ·
This pic says it all......Winners are Grinners
This was taken as he drove back from the winning run.
Daves car ran flawlessly all day, except for a minir glitch when the decklid departed from the car during a run.
Thank god for zippy ties.
I think only one run, when dave thought he'd change lanes but luckily decided to stick with his own at the last minute, was under his previous PB. He had to get off it, but still managed an 11.47 @ 119mph and beat the RX7 after chasing him down.
matberry ·
Dave congrats. Those numbers are great, what are you gonna do with all that horsepower?
Tried ringing you a few times yesterday but no answer...Dons said you obviously had a life!
I said you would be racing!!
Now that is living 11.057
Dam that is so close, n/a and all !!!!!!!!!!
WELL DONE
A 1200 is slow ·
Congrats!!
1. running a P/B
2. winning!
3. Beating the ricers!
4. Not braking anything.
How cool is that! Well done!
Dasdubber ·
Well done Dave - congratulations on the win! Does that mean you have some more food money this week or just bragging rights? 😁
Also great news on consistently improving - I guess that detailed diary you keep with every change you make to the car pays off to keep improving.
Al
11CAB ·
Looking forward to seeing N/A 10's......
mactaylor ·
congrats dave, love the cheezy grin of a winner!!!!!!
westi ·
that's fan f-cking tastic.
nice mph.
reub ·
Congrats Dave👍
Fantastic news....
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Well done Dangerous!!!! Can ran awesome all day and although a small field(7 cars- 2 VW's, 2 Honda's & 3 rotaries) the racing was great. I will get Corey to post a couple of snaps he took over the course of the day.
Yep Alan dave is going to hold a BBQ at his place and shout all his mates now he has a nice sum for food money😀😀😀
dangerous ·
Actually I had a look on the SCG web site and prize money is:
"to be announced"
So I am not going to rely on it for food since they have halved the series win-money this year.
Boostn ·
Great stuff Dave!
That car needs a diet, but has great power!
I guess that g/box works well!
much deserved.
fullnoise ·
Well done. Eat one less muffin for breakfast and you could be in the tens! Eat 2 less and you could almost hit 200km/h! Wow.
Are you running out of things to develop?
CYA CT
dangerous ·
I've got gallons of things to try yet.
Only down side is the licence to run 10s.
For one year it costs $341.(instead of $149)
I did my maintenence yesterday and all is sweet.
I would like to get to a dyno and see where the power peak RPM is now the fuel system is right.
Stanley ·
Maybe that shot of methane helped.....🙄
dangerous ·
Yeah sorry about that dude,😊
that was the only bad thing about the whole day.
Decklid falling of was only a minor glitch.🥲
dangerous ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:I will get Corey to post a couple of snaps he took over the course of the day.
Any news on Corey's snaps?
dangerous ·
dangerous ·
13BVW wrote:Congrats on the win Dave the car sounded sweet all day(bit like a rotary when idleing😂)
Haha.
Yes it does sound a bit like a rotary when it is idling,
although it makes more power Andrew!
You have PM.
dangerous ·
Some signage:
(gift from one of my bush walking friends!)
dangerous ·
I made this on Sunday to try and improve the quality of the data from the oxygen sensor.
And the began another projest with the left over material:
dangerous ·
Bore a 56mm hole:
rough cut some angles:
Hand blend with scraper:
dangerous ·
Rough blend with a coarse sanding roll:
Then a finer one:
Then start roughing out the back:
And then using a radius on a form tool:
westi ·
dave.it is always a pleasure to look at what you are up to.
keep up the good work.
dangerous ·
Turn it around and bore a recess for a press fit of 60mm tube,
and trim with a nice chamfer:
Then flip it back around and do the lip:
And then shine it up a little with some fine tape:
dangerous ·
Press in the tube with anti seize to stop galling:
Grubby paws:
I will have to trim the length a litte to clear the body:
Here:
bond ·
would the other 3 have to be identical dave?
unreal nonetheless!
nick
Dasdubber ·
Lovely work Dave - can't stop a boy playing with his toys hey!! 😂
Signage is cool as well!
11CAB ·
bond wrote:would the other 3 have to be identical dave?
Yeah didnt you see him program it into the CNC lathe.....
😂😂😂
dangerous ·
Yes three more to go!
They will be all the same.
Although it is probably unneccesary, when you see what uglies are hidden by the air cleaners currently.
Stickers are only small, about 10" long, but are a fun way to identify me!
dangerous ·
Three more hours at the lathe...
humpty ·
Now thats what I call a "VELOCITY STACK"!!!!
You really want that charge 'rammed' home don't you Dave?
Golde60 ·
dangerous wrote:Any secrets I have are available to you Mike,(and anyone who asks)
I gotta say mucho respecto for this attitude dave. I have asked a number of questions in the last few months and your advise is greatly appreciated.
good for the whole vw scene in aus and helps get me enthusiastic again from such a long distance.
that and all the cool cars that I saw at portland.
good work mate, and best of luck with getting into the 10s. not long now ehh..
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Goodbye dirty air cleaners and hello to a big fat gulp of fast moving air!!!!
Better start saving for the license to run 10's.....
dangerous ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Better start saving for the license to run 10's.....
I found a dollar coin between the seats, so just have to find another 340, plus pay for a medical.
I think I will hold off until Septmber...VW Warwick '08!
dangerous ·
Dak-A-Tak ·
LOOKS SWEET Dangerous !!!! When are we going to track !! Do you think tune - up will change much at track ,mate.
When do new stickers go (muffinman)Dave .
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Need to add "RACING" to the muffin man stickers LOL Ram tubes look way cool mate. Another top job!!
dangerous ·
Next trip out will be the dyno.
Fist try as last raced with air cleaners.
Then new ram tubes.
Then with nozzles moved up high near the top.
Not sure about racing until after the dyno and whether any +hp.
Muffin man stickers will be on when I race next.
Where on the car should I stick them??
They are about 60mm high and 340mm long.
Golde60 ·
dangerous wrote:Muffin man stickers will be on when I race next.
Where on the car should I stick them??
They are about 60mm high and 340mm long.
how much to they weigh?
you want to get them on the front of the car for more weight over the front wheels
LOL
airkewld ·
AWW i want some!! lol
reub ·
They look suberb Dave...
...is it too late to change trades 😁
gaz58t2 ·
Looks great...
Stanley ·
lookin' good Davo....just need some tennis balls now
dangerous ·
I think tennis balls would go down inside.
dangerous ·
Nozzles fitted,
now to book the trip to the dyno.
Blue arrows show new position.
Old position close to the heads in red.
Boostn ·
Yeah hot Dave.
That's worth power for sure.
A nice spray of atomized methanol + the cooling effect.
nice work and workmanship!
mactaylor ·
have you ever tried a tapperd runner? maybe with a two nozzle staged system
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
mactaylor wrote:have you ever tried a tapperd runner? maybe with a two nozzle staged system
was just about to ask the same question about a tapered runner to increase air speed into combustion chamber...
beat me to it!!
dangerous ·
Yes a tapered runner is supposed to be ideal.
Not really practical in this case without re-engineering the whole intake tract from Valve seat up.
But that IS the plan with this engine in the future by filling in the ports.
humpty ·
dangerous wrote:Muffin man stickers will be on when I race next.
Where on the car should I stick them??
They are about 60mm high and 340mm long.
Now back to the important stuff.... 😂
I think the stickers should go on the rear quarter panel behind the door.... Prolly down low just above the heater channel...... Perfect spot....
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Yep that's the spot I would put them too.
dangerous ·
OK, that settles it.
It ws my first choice,
or the front quarter, or the door.
Done deal...now back to going fast.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Have we been to dyno yet Dangerous??
dangerous ·
not yet!
13BVW ·
Dave just worked out how to get video from the camera to the internets. 😀Heres a couple from Mini Jam
dangerous ·
Wow, thanks Andrew!
dangerous ·
Got it running today in prep for dyno on Thursday.
Man there is a lot of fuel comes out at idle.
If you look closely you can see the fuel pouring in:
Here is a better view at idle.
matberry ·
Man, your hosing in that methanol Dave!
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Bout the same job a holley 4 barrell does ?? Jam tin with 4 holes cut in it and 1/2 fuel ine LOL
Looks good mate. Can't wait for the results. Who is doing the dyno for you?
matberry ·
Big day tomorrow hey Dave. All ready?
Boostn ·
Looking good Dave,
Have you gone for one per port or two staged, primary down low and secondary up top would be ideal.
Stanley ·
How'd the dyno go?
mactaylor ·
yeah hurry up wana know all the details as long as its not hurt!!!!
dangerous ·
OK, I am home.
All is OK, and details soon.
No Huge gains but some very interesting info.
started with about 220 and finished with 225......@8000!!
humpty ·
Peak?!???
matberry ·
AT 8000 !!!!!
That means you are going to rev it harder ???
colin ·
Well done Dave 225hp is a great result. I bet hearing 8000rpm from a vw motor was just awesome.
Cheers Col
dangerous ·
OK, just spent an hour typing all the explanation and lost it all when my computer froze.
here is the chart:
hainesy ·
Well done dave very nice figures there.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
dangerous wrote:OK, just spent an hour typing all the explanation and lost it all when my computer froze.
here is the chart:
Nice one Dangerous. Holds the power above 215ish hp from about 6500-8500k which is very handy.Inlet temp also relatively nice and cool too and almost the same as ambient temp.
dangerous ·
Every pull we did we went to the 8400 rev limit,
and did two at each session to confirm consistency....15 tests in all.
The first interesting thing was the 13hp gain when the oil was nice and warm.
The first pull (not on the sheet) was 206,
and then 220.8 peaking about 7400, but still just under 220 past 8000.(purple on the graph).
This is as I ran it with my best time of 11.00@121.46.
Next, without any fuel system changes, the long ram tubes.
WOW! Radical curve!
Quite obvious in orange, is that the longer rams were best suited to a peak power around 6250.
But the engines' combination of parts tried to bring back the power again later.
In Blue, with the nozzles moved up high, it smoothed things out,
but still the power wanted to be lower at about 6700, and only 219.2.
The next step was to cut the tubes,
and I went about 15mm longer than the original short tubes.(took out about 150mm)
The extra 15mm was for two reasons.
One was the roughness of the emergency hacksaw cutting,
and the other was because I was not sure about where to measure the length from,
being how large the new radii is.
Nozzles still mounted high.
Anyhow, power of 220.8 returned, but its peak was 8200(pink graph).
The power at 6000 was good but it gained very little until it was nearly at the limiter.
Once the nozzles were moved back down to the lower position, the power jumped to 224,
at about 7800, and this is the same combo, as I last raced but the new ram tubes in short length.
(green Graph).
Last constructive test was to lean off mixture by 0.002" and this picked up almost everywhere
except a bit either side of 7000.
225.5 @8000 was the result, but it was still above 220 right up until it hit the 8400 limit.
I did try one step leaner but the pill was a different brand,
and it showed richer even though it was meant to lean it off.
So that last run was aborted.
Very constructive day and still looking over the chart and my notes.
Very interested how the longer ram tubes actually moved the POSITION of the power peak by so much.
But quite obviously the combination of cam and heads wanted it to be higher.
dangerous ·
colin wrote:Well done Dave 225hp is a great result. I bet hearing 8000rpm from a vw motor was just awesome.
Cheers Col
Thanks Colin and everyone else.
It sounded very nice at full revs.
I still have a stiffy.
westi ·
cold spoon will fix that.
congrates dave.
matberry ·
Fantastic flat graph on the money setup. Dave youmust be stoked.
Great to see how those tubes realy change things.
humpty ·
Simply brilliant effort Dave.... This sort of real world stuff is pure gold....
colin ·
Dave i can back up what you discovered with yuor oil temp figuers.
When blue and i dynoed my car last we always got the car to 80degrees before mashing the throttle.After we finished i wanted to see if a lower oil temp made any difference. Because in hillclimbs especially your first run its hard to get temp into your oil, so we tried a run at 60 degrees, down 13rwhp, very enlightening
Again congrats great result
Cheers Col.
Stanley ·
colin wrote:Well done Dave 225hp is a great result. I bet hearing 8000rpm from a vw motor was just awesome.
Cheers Col
Especially with someone else in your car.....🙅
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
you have to sit in the back of this thing like i did for the dyno day last year to appreciate the noise and power Dave's car makes.
dangerous ·
Some upgrades planned for next year:
I ordered just the bare castings.
I am hoping to use most of the parts from my old heads in these.
The plan is to increase the air speed compared with my Pauter heads.
Looking at the 'as cast' ports, I have a lot to do.
Look how small the exhaust hole is in the chamber side!
mactaylor ·
nice dave are you putting in berilyium seats? man they are a fat casting how thick are they around bolt holes and the like?I keep editing this post as i find more things do the come with the guides all ready roughed in?
dangerous ·
All the holes are there but I will have to make guides and seats.
Seats will be Aluminium bronze.
westi ·
geez you have some work to do.
but i think your the write man for the job.
whats the difference between the two heads,main differences apart from looks.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Noice Dave.
dangerous ·
westi wrote:geez you have some work to do.
but i think your the write man for the job.
whats the difference between the two heads,main differences apart from looks.
Between these and the Pauter?
Primarilly the port size,
but the Pauter is much stronger in the rocker box support.
The Pauter comes rough CNC'd at the port flange,
and the holes are way big, exhaust too.
Also these have a different inlet approach angle
and the ports are better being closer together.
westi ·
sweet thanks dave
mactaylor ·
yeah thanks why the change other than the obvious?
dangerous ·
mactaylor wrote:yeah thanks why the change other than the obvious?
Nothing is obvious is it?!
Wanting to go faster?
My plan for the current heads was to fill in the ports with aluminium plates,
to try and increase the air speed,
but other than having the car in pieces for a while,
and it being a comprimised result unless I make a new manifold,
and the exhaust hole also being too big,
and the chamber needing more work,
and....
I clean slate just seemed like a better way to go.
I wanted these about a year or so ago so saved up my gold coins for a whole year.
Hopefully next year I can get the rockers and covers before Warwick 2009.
These will fit some old Autocraft inlet manifolds that I have,
and the exhaust will just be a flange change.
matberry ·
Go Volksie Go
dangerous ·
Made and fitted some inlet seats today.
They have .007" interference fit.
Material is Aluminium Bronze,
which has a high tensile strength,
and expands at a rate close to the head material.
The heads are put in the oven at 200 degrees C,
and I use this mandrel to fit the seats:
All done!
Ready to rough out the inlet ports.
matberry ·
Looks good Dave.
Bet you love being able to do this at home these days.
mactaylor ·
looken good dave,hope you dont make muffins at the same time as heating your heads, makes them taste funny! hope you dont mind me asking on youre thread but want to know poundage valve springs i should put in my type 4 with 6mm valve stems and 7000rpm about a 280 deg @ 50 thou cam gotta order some this week, thanks
dangerous ·
Hi Mac,
it DOES depend on the profile, but if it is a stable profile,
and less than 600 lift I would aim to shim the springs about 80 to 100 from bind,
and use a quality dual spring in 1.25" Outside diameter.
Make sure you use a rev limiter to cover your arse.
dangerous ·
Current sponsors:
Engine with the short ram tubes.
mactaylor ·
thanks dave just to confirm is that 80 - 100 pounds or 80 -100 thou from bind a standard type 4 spring is about 80 pound at 500 thou and about 30 pound at installed height. im putting in beehive springs just for fun see if it makes much difference, thanks again
matberry ·
80 - 100 thou👍
dangerous ·
Yeah Matt is right.
I used to have around 140 seat and 350 nose pressure.
Beehive may struggle with that, but with light valve it should be fine
as long as the cam profile is not a bogus one.
mactaylor ·
yeah thanks hoping to get 100-330 somewhere round therewill see thanks both of you! how much does it cost to be a sponsor of the muffin man!!!!
westi ·
loverly work as always.
those heads rock.
dave what kind of differences in flow(cfm wise ) if any. does temperater make for the head flow benches.
and what kind of differences have you seen with venturi's.
pagey's got me thinking.we spoke the other night and i'm tinkering again.
dangerous ·
The superflow bench has a correction for the temp as it rises from the suction of the pump and where it blows out.
Higher temps have correction factors that reduce the inlet flow, and increase the exhaust.
Venturis in the carb or in the port near the seat?
The carb will most likely limit flow with a smaller venturi,
but larger vents may not let the carb work properly
(weber says 42mm is biggest for a 48IDA to get acceptable tuning through the range...bigger carb is different).
Have a look at some flow tests we did some years ago for interests sake:
westi ·
cheers
you can never have to much info.
dangerous ·
I'll try to find the correction number for each temperature.
For some reason the sf600 bench had no temp change factor.
Perhaps the temp difference was not present due to the electric motors being out of the air flow.
On the 110 bench the air got very hot at low lift/low flow.
063bug ·
....love the Muffin Man stickers..... 👍
dangerous ·
I needed to open up the exhaust seat hole.
So I made up some jigs to hold the head at a nine and a half degree angle.
These stepped spacers locate on the valve guide boss, and spring seat.
A pair of 10mm socket head cap screws go down and clamp the head down to the drill press table.
I did a bit of trial and error with some home made fly cutters.
The cutters locate on a dummy valve guide that taps lightly into the head.
In the end there are three steps.
The first cutter I made has a 2mm radius on the end, and a 30 degree angle.
The plan for this one is to give a good top angle to the valve seat.
Here is the home made cutter, and the finished hole showing the radius.
dangerous ·
The other two steps are the seat hole its self,
and the inside of the seat hole so that the seat hole-cutter does not have to cut such a wide surface.
Here you can see how small the casting is in the throat.
The small hole was done with a guide boss cutter that I made in the early nineties,
for my first set of new heads and dual springs.
Once this was done,
I used larger cutter to make the actual seat hole.
The size is just larger than the proposed 39 to 40mm exhaust valve. (not sure yet)
I made this one 20 years ago to cut a hole in a stock head for a 40mm inlet valve.
But it worked great for this,
with just a light sharpen.
The tooth on the cutter is square,
it is just the angle of the pic that makes it look pointed.
It makes the seat hole flat on the bottom.
dangerous ·
This is the finished recess, ready for a seat.
GREEN arrow is where the boss cutter opened out the throat.
BLUE arrow is the seat hole location.
RED arrow is the radius up to the chamber wall.
Yellow arrow is just short of the bore seal surface.
13BVW ·
Dave all this reminds me of "The worlds Fastest Indian"😂
Dasdubber ·
I can certainly see why good quality head work costs so much. I wonder how many hours you'll have invested in these heads by the time they are done Dave?? Lots I am guessing!
Al
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
A fair few cups of coffee and a few muffins I'd expect....
dangerous ·
Made up the Exhaust seats today:
...and shrunk them in:
Supoib.
Stanley ·
Nice work Dave.
I can't wait for the die grinder to make an appearance
dangerous ·
Dasdubber wrote:.I wonder how many hours you'll have invested in these heads by the time they are done Dave?? Lots I am guessing!
Al
This is the 5th pair of heads that I have done from scratch over my racing years.
My first set of 044 castings are still on Wally's "bugger" turbo drag beetle.
I did a set of super flow astings after that (first 10's),
then AF bugpack heads when I went up to 4"(101.6mm) bore in 1995,(got into the nines with those)
and then my current Pauter heads.
This time the train of thought will be totally new,
when planning out the port and chamber shapes,
being that the plan is purely normally aspirated.
I am up to about 15 hours so far.
It would take a lot less time with equipment and machines designed for head work.
And you can purchases valve seats and guides, but you know me,
I like to do everything myself if I can.
Only the final seat cutting will be farmed out
because I no longer work for someone that has the tooling.
My Pauter heads took about 40 hours of work to get ready,
and I would say that these will be about 50 to 60 hours,
being that the chambers and ports are castings,
whereas the Pauter had rough CNC holes and chambers to begin with.
This time guesstimate does not include the many hours
of looking at the heads and planning ideas
as I sit with them on the couch, in bed, and on the toilet,
rolling them over and dreaming about a plan of attack.
You can probably double the hours if you include that.
punchbuggyracer ·
So can you do type IV heads?
Dave you make my job look so boring and useless compared to what you get to do.
dangerous ·
punchbuggyracer wrote:So can you do type IV heads?
No.
I only do fast stuff.😘
Stanley ·
😂
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
OK thats not funny at all.....
just for that i should give you a set of Type 4 heads to do lol
dangerous ·
Never seen a fast one with out boost.
Thats damn funny.
dangerous ·
As funny as haemeroids when someone else has got them.
Stanley ·
not that there is anything wrong with a bit of boost
dangerous ·
After a weekend of fun making cutters,
I rolled the week end into Monday and made a MEGA two tip cutter
to unshroud the inlet valve in the chamber.
Both have radius tips.
The first tip goes right down to the top of the seat at a diameter that just clears the spark plug.
The second tip is set at a larger diameter to unshroud out to the bore edge,
but to a shallower depth that stops above the spark plug.
Here you can see the two different steps that the tool forms.
Then a quick blend with a rotary burr to show the approximate shape.
Much work to do yet,
but must rest for now and get the car ready for the dyno day.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
They are looking good mate!!! As for having roids on your date it is funny whne you don't have em but it's hilarious when someone else has them and can't sit down ahahahahha
hellbugged ·
dangerous wrote:This time guesstimate does not include the many hours
of looking at the heads and planning ideas
as I sit with them on the couch, in bed, and on the toilet,
rolling them over and dreaming about a plan of attack.
You can probably double the hours if you include that.
now that sounds familiar!!
awsome work as usual Dave, enjoying this one!!
i especially like the cutter that does the radius down to the top of the seat...........that bit is very hard with just the rotary burr.
60 hours at shop rates, think about that guys!
punchbuggyracer ·
Any one want to swap a T4 78mm hemaroid crank for a 84mm T1 go fast???
dangerous ·
I should be doing other things,
but since I had the face-plate mounted in the lathe,
I thought I would see how it would go flycutting my heads.
Normally this would be done in a milling mahine.
But this works very well.
This is just roughed down 0.100" and then a .050" step at the piston diameter.
Set up time is a little longer(like amout 1 minute),
but the tooling is much more rigid than a mill, so much larger cuts can be taken,
and with no chatter.
I am sure a case could be done this way without much problem.
mactaylor ·
what other work dave? nothings more important than hipo vw bits.
dangerous ·
mactaylor wrote:what other work dave? nothings more important than hipo vw bits.
That is correct.
I should be getting my car ready for Dyno Day.
Should be a good day!
westi ·
nah tinkering is much more fun.i love it,as i am sure you love to too.
i will get straight into it dave,with the carby testing that you did .was it carby alone.because i have bee doing some testing.
i took the valve out and blocked the guide hole just to see what the best of the best would be,it was 175cfm.
with the valve in and at 630lift it is between 161cfm to 170cfm.the tests have been done over the last couple of weeks ,and i keep coming up with different numbers,is this normal.the machine is driving me nuts.
any how my question is ,do you think i have maxed out with vavle size or is it worth looking at the venturi side of things.
oh,i almost forgot .do you still have room next week for some boys from down south.
westi ·
p.s
you proberly get sick of hearing it,but.
the heads look unreal.
when will they be going on,soon i hope.
keep the pic's coming
dangerous ·
Those tests from the sheet I posted
were carb only.
The numbers should be very consistent for each combination
unless the temperature is rising.
Temp change can make huge differences,
hence the reason for correction factors for each temp rise.
I recall putting a 48 ida on my heads and went from 170cfm down to 140.
I dont remember the ventruri I used,...37 to 42?
but the precentage loss gives you an idea how much an inadeqate carb or body can kill a good set of heads.
Testing my memory with a 'no valve test', but that seems like only a small gain with no valve,
which if correct means you have done your job well whan the valve is in there.
You guys are still welcome to stay here next frid night.
Sat night nfg.
I have a couple of spare beds and floor space, but bring your sleeping bag(not woman...sleeping bag).
dangerous ·
The heads will not be on until next year.
I still have to save up for the rockers and covers(DOOOHHH!).
That will take most of a year as will be the port and chamber stuff.
There are still a couple of tings I want to try on this engine,
and with my spare bullet before the heads upgrade.
westi ·
no prob's.
is there a drag meet or test and tune on as well as the dynoday on that weekend.
Dak-A-Tak ·
YEP ! but with no pics of your car yet ! your not allowed to GO !! ( as a roller from side )
Rod , myself are going up ,maybe a couple more . Maybe fuffin man might come ? muffin man?
westi ·
i will see what i can do.
but there were a few scratches on things that needed to be touched up,so basically what i am saying is that it is still apart.
you would much prefer a complete or as it is, pic or pic's ,yes.
dangerous ·
Well, they dyno day has come and gone for the year.
This year was a bit of a fizzer for me for my own car, but an awesome day for the Volksies!👍
The first and only test 'pull' was only 157.7 kW(= 212.48hp)👎
Unfortunately before they could get any heat in the engine, the clutch died.🥲
Everyone has an excuse I suppose, but it would have been nice to get a better number,
being that the car is now faster than when it had 217hp last year.
Last run I had in the car in march had some clutch slip.
As did my dyno testing in April, until the clutch heated up.(225.5HP)
So 2 weeks ago I went to the trouble of replacing the disc,
and resurfacing the FW and pressure plate.
After the failure on Saturday I was a bit worried, being I had been tinkering in that area recently.
But as it turned out , it was merely a failure of the throwout bearing(old faithful).
My guess is that with the car sitting idle for the last few months,
a 17 year old throwout bearing,
and declutching a cold bearing at the 8400 rev limit on the only dyno pull,
the poor old bearing said, "enough!"
When I got home on Saturday night I was thinking if I did not find out what was wrong that night,
I would be worrying all day sunday while bushwalking.
So in a daze of dehydration,🤪
I dived in at 7pm and sluiced the engine out to find the culprit, and the relief I was after.
The bearing has not totally seized, but is very stiff to turn.
It looks like a new bearing, and thorough inspection will be all it needs.
At least the new disc is now well 'bedded' in.😂
Stanley ·
Better to find it know than at a T&T or even worse the Jamboree.
vassy66T1 ·
An economical fix .. that is about all you can really hope for.
Was a great day on Saturday.
westi ·
what you up to dave.
hows those heads going,
dangerous ·
Hi Westi,
no more progress on the heads as yet.
Have a tranny and engine to do before the Test and Tune next Thursday.
Plan is to just get the rust off(driver) in prep for Jamboree on 23/24th of Aug.
westi ·
jambo time again,it sure goes quick hey.
keep us posted, is pagey and rod going too.
pic's and vid's are a must.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Think Rod is running the chop top. Dunno if Pete is running as he was going to freshen up the engine in the yellow car.
Heard that there are some new guys who are going to campaign All motor from the rotary ranks. 20b powered RX3 and a few others all cars are apparantly capable of sub 11.00 passes. Funny thing on the rotary forum is the angst between the honda guys and the rotary boys over who is better. Us Volksy guys don't even rate a mention even though we keep winning rounds!!
I should be available to help out and Jambo if the need be.
westi ·
the rx3 usually runs 12's,it is the green one,it will be the one that gets the 20pp. it should make some good pony's,it all depends on how nice he is to me when we do the headers and exhaust,maybe i can choke it up alittle.lol
the red one about to go out(rx3)is his brothers, but he only has a 13b pp.both cars are heavy and run full street trim.
they are never as consistent as the volkys but they think there shit hot.
i know he use to hate racing the volky's because they always 60ft well.
i hope there will be vid's.and i wish the best of luck to all the volky's that attend.
dangerous ·
Thanks for the inside tips Westi.
I heard there was another PP20B that went 10.1 at the last test and tune up here.
Mazfix or Maztech customer I heard.
I can always try to be more consistent, and win that way I hope.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
the black series 7 RX7 with the 20b PP apparantly run low 10 passes back to back recently so i was told by Captain. He also was the one who told me about the other chook cookers making an appearance in all motor.
westi ·
they are never usually consistent that is there down fall.i still like the sound of a good burner 20b, nice and crisp.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Muffin Man FTW??? LOL
grumpy rooster ·
The car that ran 10.1 is owned by Craig Wasson, original owner of MR12A, the fastest 12A in the country. He is a Mazsport customer. The car will run into the 9's with a few more passes under its belt (probably at Jambo).
There is also the blue Honda S600 of Colin Beiber that has had the 13BPP replaced with a 20BPP. He is a Maztech customer and they are looking for low 9's. The car is way under weight for any record setting purposes (like 150kg).
Along with those 2 is Sam's black 20BPP RX7 and another 20BPP in a green RX2. So that makes 4 20B's.
On the Honda front the Online guys and Hi-Comp (us) will not be there. There are a couple of others that may sneak into the 11's.
Good luck to you guys against the rotars. (I will be supporting a rotary guy this time).
dangerous ·
dangerous wrote:Have a tranny and engine to do before the Test and Tune next Thursday.
Plan is to just get the rust off(driver) in prep for Jamboree on 23/24th of Aug.
Went up to the test and tune to get back into the swing of things.
It had been 5 1/2 months since my last confession,
oops I mean my last run.
Nothing great but at least I got the new clutch bedded in,
and the rust worn from the bores:
13.573@114.36... thats what happens when you try to use 3rd and 4th gear to take off!
11.329@118.02....clutch slipped off the line and over reved in 1st gear.
11.385@116.13...crooked launch but otherwise clean (I had richened it up to account for the -350ft air, but it went slower, good 60-fot at 1.539).
Lost the plot a bit with the tune, and it was getting a bit slick on the start line so came home.
But it was good to go out and cane the car.
118mph is still 8100rpm..sweet.
(116 is 7950rpm)
dangerous ·
13.57 was 2.173 sixty and 9.261@89.64mph on 1/8mile
11.32 was 1.600 sixty and 7.184@95.06mph on 1/8 mile.
11.38 was 1.539 sixty and 7.190@94.42mph on the 1/8 mile.
Surprising how even in the very dense air, 0.002" richer jet slowed down the mph so much.
Stanley ·
"13.573@114.36... thats what happens when you try to use 3rd and 4th gear to take off!"
A lot of people would be happy with that using first. Maybe the time has come to develop an auto box Dave....😀
Can I just say how bloody cold it was out there as well
dangerous ·
Well the Jamboree two day event has been run and....WON!
As reported in another post, the clutch ring sheared off after the first burnout in qualiying,
so with help from Stanley, we welded it back on with his tig, and made it back to the track in time
to re-assemble everything and do a 'one-and-only' qualifyer at
11.31@117.59
In racing on an 11.29 dial in I ran:
11.30@116.85
11.30@118.14
11.59@ back off 90mph
11.73@back off 87mph to win the final.(0.411 reaction time)
Car weighed 1785 lbs after the last run.
(this is 811kg with me in the car).
Sixty foot times were:
1.51
1.52
1.54
1.44
1.53
Best ever sixty foot in the car was the 1.44,
and best 1/8 mile time on the day was 7.01 and 96.53mph.
(best ever in the past was 6.98@97.7 so pretty close).
This win put me second for the series championship points.
Here is the cheque for that:
dangerous ·
The car was consistent but a bit slow considering the great track and weather conditions.
There was however, an annoying exhaust 'popping sound' that I could not get rid of,
until the engine was warm.
I had decided that this lack of power was due to the good air, making the engine just a bit to lean,
and with the next richer jet being 'too rich', I left it alone.
But when unloading the car on Monday morning the number two cylinder
had a considerable combustion leak between it and the head.
Once this warmed up, the 'popping' from the exhaust was reduced,
but certainly a cause for the lack of power.
Perhaps I should have not left it solong before a head re-tension.
92 runs.
Here is where it was leaking.
It took a 0.015 thou cut to clean up this surface.
dangerous ·
Other than this minor problem everything else looks 'tip top',
so before making any cuts on the head,
I checked the piston to valve clearance and worked out I could take as much as .020thou ,
and still be safe.(if I needed to).
While the heads were off the springs were checked,(only one needed a shim),
and and a little more blending was done in the ports where the guides stick through.
As per 'tear drop theory' it is better to have a rounded face 'in the breeze' than a knife edge,
(makes sense), so I did these mods before washing everything for final assembly.
As run:
Now:
Exhaust as run:
and
Now:
vassy66T1 ·
Should be running so strong for Warwick Dave.
Is this pretty much this combo at the top of its performance?
You certainly seem to have covered every angle meticulously.
westi ·
just put the new heads on dave,you know you want too.it's eating you up so just do it.
hellbugged ·
nice Dave, all the berg heads i've sussed have round edges too🥷
dangerous ·
There are plenty of areas for improvement with this engine,
particularly in the tuning area,
but I have to try and "hasten slowly"
and keep consistency and reliability in mind,
to coincide with the race events that I plan to run.
ie
Warwick
Portland,
Jamboree 19.
dangerous ·
byronmcmanus59 ·
dangerous wrote:There are plenty of areas for improvement with this engine,
particularly in the tuning area,
but I have to try and "hasten slowly"
and keep consistency and reliability in mind,
to coincide with the race events that I plan to run.
ie
Warwick
Portland,
Jamboree 19.
your running portland!! cant wait to see this.
good job 😀
oldskl60 ·
I found this footage on my camera that I had not got around to posting, it is of Dave's 11.00.
Dak-A-Tak ·
Thanks for the link to our web site , Tom . Very sweet run Dave .
dangerous ·
WOW!
Thanks Tom!!
vassy66T1 ·
Gr8 video!
Love your beetle Dave. It is a credit to your preparation the consistency. I was talking to Peter Beattie (no not the premier) the other day and he was reliving old times when he leaned on your expertise in setting up his 4.0l cortina with the methanol injection. Unfortunately he never continued with taking it to the track because he could see the $ running away.
Cheers
tassupervee ·
Damn!
I re-ran that vid over and over!
Thats such a sweet "leave"
Great stuff!
L8tr
E
dangerous ·
I decided to build a whole new gearbox this year for the Warwick 1/8th mile.
This way I can keep my 1/4mile box as a spare for events like Warwick and Portland.
There were some minor issues with the shift quality at the Jamboree.
Here you can('t) see the bush in the floor pan.
I know I had replaced it at some point in the past,
but I guess it needs another....1992 may be?
I had forgotten how much work it is to build a fresh one of these bus trannys for dragrace.
I am up to 40 hours so far, and still have not begun final assembly.
It will be based on a 2lt case, and replaced the bolts with studs.
Diff ratio is 5.42857,
and ratios will be:
1st : 3.3000
2nd :2.0588
3rd : 1.579
4th 1.2174
dangerous ·
Here is the ERCO spool,
with K38/7 crown wheel attached.
I made up these flanges by splicing the 2lt ones with ones from a Commadore.
(to match my CV's)
They will be retained by these stepped caps instead of factory circlips.
The spool is held into the case with screw in side covers,
to which I fitted new German seals.
I am going to try an ERCO chro-moly pinion nut this time.
dangerous ·
The other end of the pinion will have this "Pablo" thrust shim arrangement.
It is fitted between 4th gear on the pinion half,
and is located in a recess that I machined in the intermediate housing.
(note oil return hole spooned around shims).
It is set at .003" clearance between the shims.
I should mention that the intermediate housing is a cast aluminium version from Morris Race Engines in the USA.
It is very similar to the original Bergs housing,
and every bit as good quality.
dangerous ·
It is surprising how many extra little jobs needed doing.
Early nose cone is needed since the hockey stick that is supplied has been shortened.
This early nose cone needed re-bushing.
And facing off flat:
....to make room for this steel retaining plate:
I also had to take 1.5mm from the bell housing face and location.
This is to get better clutch geometry,
and also full starter motor gear engagement.
Lengthened the clutch arm:
Made a bronze bush,
and welded the clutch fork :
Shorten the 1800 input shaft to 1600 length:
Clearance inside the case to make room for the beetle style shift arrangement and forks.
Fit 1800/1600 style reverse idler shaft,
and modify the early reverse idler gear to suit.
Brass fork needed a bit more clearance too.
This input shaft coupling needed a counter bore to clear the splines on the FTC mainshaft.
dangerous ·
Solid spacer is required between 3rd and 4th on the pinion.
It's length is a tight fit to assist and maintain the end clearance of the 'Pablo' shim system.
I made it from 4140 solid bar.
Here is the FTC mainshaft, and early metal caged bearing for third gear.
I bought this from Bergs as old stock when the dollar was good.
It will get a hardened key also.
The ERCO third:
This overall 3rd ratio is very close to the stock 1500 beetle second gear ratio.
I will have to be 'on the ball' with the shifting!
Hubs have oil holes added:
Straight cut 4th gear.
1.2174 ratio combined with 5.42857 diff ratio will equate to 8540rpm a 100 mph.
Dasdubber ·
Mmmmm, gearbox porn.....its always a shame that these parts and work are hidden away for no-one to see.
Al
westi ·
love your work,as always you are the man.
i love it.
keep the volks porn comin
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
the "model" hands are looking a little cleaner mate!! with ratios like these you'll think you're riding a big bike!!
Stanley ·
see how easy it is people.....🤪
so I guess you'll be changing the the clutch thrust ring...😀
dangerous ·
Only if it needs replacing!
dangerous ·
I got a bit more done today.
The slider for 1st and second needed narrowing front and rear to account for the wider gears.
Also the gear tip needed to be chamfered at 10 degrees to clear the mainshaft.
dangerous ·
I then did a trial assembly with no sealants to make sure everything cleared,
and shifted correctly.
It was then time to strip it all down for fial wash and lubrication.
You can never have too much lubrication.
This is the pinion half assembled.
Main shaft assenbled:
I used a hardened key within the 3/4 hub,
and loctite as well.
I then carefully fitted it to the intermediate housing,
making sure my 'pablo' shims were properly seated,
and then fitted the piion and mainshaft bearings to the housing last.
Here it is in the jig
to set the fork positions.
dangerous ·
Here is the diff area assembled.
And the flanges sealed and bolted tight:
I have used the 15mm hex sized nuts everywhere to help tie everything together.
Just needs the nose cone fitted and some oil.
I was not happy wit the supplied Brazilian hockey stick,
so will duplicate the one that is currently fitted to the car.
mactaylor ·
are the "pablo" shims the ones the bloke from the US recomended as a mod? ps great hand modeling you should be on that new show for aussie models!
dangerous ·
Yes that is correct Mac.
Paul Guard(Pablo) was kind enough to share his experiece with me,
and even sent some stuff from the USA free of charge.
There are a lot f generous people in the world, and the best thing to do is share the knowlege.
As Joe Cocker says, "pass it on".
I could be a hand model for moisturiser.
I use a lot of moisturiser.
(that one I should have probably not "pass it on"). hehe.
dangerous ·
"Just Pass it On" (sung by Joe Cocker)
(Daniel Moore)
You don't owe me, ha! I'll be hoping, ha!
I'll be praying, ha!
Toombo iso, ha! toombo iso, ha!
Toombo iso, ha!
You don't owe me, you don't owe me a solitary thing.
If I lend a hand it's 'cause I choose to.
You don't owe me.
(Just pass it on.) Pass it on, pass it on. (Pass it on.)
Help make the world go round. (Pass it on.)
Pass it on to who ever you need, they won't owe you.
Toombo iso, ha! toombo iso, ha!
I'll be hoping, I'll be hoping for the big one out of the blue,
When it comes I want it to come to you.
I'll be hoping.
(Just pass it on.) Pass it on, pass it on. (Pass it on.)
Hope makes the world go round. (Pass it on.)
Pass it on to who ever you need, they won't owe you.
Toombo iso, ha! toombo iso, ha!
I'll be praying, I'll be praying that the best will come your way.
And when it comes that's going to make my day.
I'll be praying.
(Just pass it on.) Pass it on, pass it on. (Pass it on.)
Hope makes the world go round. (Pass it on.)
Pass it on to who ever you need, they won't owe you.
You don't owe me, no you don't.
I'll be hoping, ha!
I'll be praying, ha!
Toombo iso, ha! toombo iso...
bond ·
haha "moisturiser"
nice work dave.
nick
vassy66T1 ·
main SHAFTS, HARDENED keys, excess LUBRICATION ... is any of this got anything to do with cars??
I do like you generous world view 😎
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Looking good Dangerous!! My hands are looking the same but i have been cleaning parts with a caustic acid based cleaner which strips all parts of oil stain and the look like new. Does wonders for your hands(not) but man it gets em clean and also does remove a few layers of skin.
Let's just say I could rob a bank and leave no finger prints!!
dangerous ·
Well, another great result,
this time for VW Warwick 2008.
Gearbox performed very well ,and this has to be my favourite win.
Many thanks to everyone who helped and dropped by to say hello throughout the weekend.
Saturday I began safe rich in case the 15 thou flycut demanded extra fuel,
but from that point it as very consistent once I leaned it off:
Great vid's there , I had to go for broke against Dave .I broke out but good to see Dangerous go home with the win .
That vid against Dave is Fan-Bluddy-tasic , love the little wheelie from my car .Good one mate and thanks with my motor too, befor Warwick .
Dak-A-Tak racing .
dangerous ·
Wow!
Thanks 11CAB
Aweome vids.
I could not watch the quicktime ones so this is great.
Thanks for the effort!
That run against pete was my lucky one.
I cut a shocker light(.550), but the car was on song.(7.07 on a 7.04 DI)
Had pete not broken out by 0.05 seconds I would have been on the trailer.
No probs pete with the engine, shame you lost a couple of qualifyers because of that seal.
Hows the pushrod tubes going?
vassy66T1 ·
Great racing and an awesome weekend!!
Congratulations on the win Dave! Got to get you some padding for that seat though!? Ouch ...
STOCK ·
HEY DAVE
CONGRATS ON THE WIN
WHAT A TOP WEEKEND , HAD A BLAST
IT WAS GREAT TO MEET UP WITH YOU & ALL THE QLD BOYS
CAN'T WAIT FOR SOME MORE RACING
SPEWING WE COULD,NT GET ONE MORE PASS
OUT OF THE JUNKA,
MAYBE WE COULD HAVE GIVEN YOU A RUN IN THE FINAL
OH WELL MAYBE NEXT YEAR,
fullnoise ·
You ran 7.072 twice, 7.042 twice and 3 of the 4 competitive rounds were within 6 one thousandth of a second. That's amazing, not to mention quick. It's doing my head in.
Those 60 ft times are all over the place. At least 3 one hundredth of a second over the 2 days!
Now tell me you go full steam ahead on every run and not that you back off when you know you've got the win.
Nice work.
CYA CT
dangerous ·
fullnoise wrote:Now, tell me you go full steam ahead on every run,
and not that you back off when you know you've got the win.
Nice work.
CYA CT
I go full steam ahead on every run.
And no, I don't back off even if I know I have the win.
Well, some times I back off.
But not at Warwick, it is all about the fun.🤓
dangerous ·
When I saw the US dollar getting worse, I got on the phone and ordered my rockers.
Roger Crawford, from Headsup Performance in the USA was very helpfull and kindly used US post to send them.
Luckilly I got them at the dollar around 84 c woo hoo!
They are 1.7 rocker ratio,
and bolt down to the flat surface in the head,
with eight 5/16UNC socket head cap screws,
and four dowels :
There is a different cylinder head and rocker set-up for left and right.
This design is to keep the pushrod angle as straight as possible.
Thus, the opposite side has a large offset.
dangerous ·
Check out the salubrious rocker covers.
O-Rings, so no gaskets,
and extra deep for lots of room.
dangerous ·
Now, back to work.
colin ·
Being extra deep do you have any concerns about oil hanging in the covers and not returning to the sump quick enough.
With roundy roundy racing I have had to address this issue because the oil was being kept up in the cover especially in long fast corners.
Yes they do look horny those rockers.
Cherers Col
dangerous ·
Hi Colin,
I actually restrict the oil within the pushrods so not as much gets up there.
If I have to, I will add drains, or an extra stage oil pump to return the excess oil.
The designers actually recommend an extra oil spray bar for the springs,
so I may have to upgrade the oil pump.
pete wood ·
^ not only can he drive, he's got rugged good looks too, 😂
dangerous ·
If I did not have the rugged good looks,
the only thing that would be left to help with my self esteem
would be my enormous genitals.
063bug ·
...... as it's been said before....mmmm engine porn... thought I would get in and say it before anyone else got the chance 🙂
Looks like your working on a earth mover with the size of some of those components....
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
I was going to say you would have heaps of room for oil spray bars to control temps on rocker gear/springs/heads etc. My unlce has added these to his Type 4 heads and the oil temp rose by nearly 20 deg but the actual cylinder head temperature has dropped a fair bit.
Umm can anyone else see some 10 second passes looming on the horizon..........
vassy66T1 ·
Do you think all that gear will be strong enough? 🤪
Very serious looking kit and plenty of metal everywhere you look.
What other design differences with the new heads?
(Good decision with the buy before the dollar plummetted.)
typethreeking ·
so dave how long before you have those ports finished and all assembled and up and running dave...??
dangerous ·
Should be ready for Warwick next year.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Unless you get really keen they might be ready earlier hey Dangerous😵💫
Stanley ·
You've got about 5 weeks until the proposed T&T. That should be heaps of time.
dangerous ·
The plan is to have the other power plant in by then,
just not the CD heads.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
oooh more engine porn of the Pauter kind?
dangerous ·
No you'll just have to use your imagination this time.
It has been together in my cupboard for over two years.
The engine has smaller duration cam, but more valve lift. (265@.050" and 0.690")
It has more head flow but smaller valves(better air speed).
It also has over 14:1 compression (last combo has 13:1).
Stanley ·
so your cupboard is full of porn....vw porn
dangerous ·
reub ·
....drool 🙂
hellbugged ·
woo hoo!, love a good DB tinker session and resultant statistic breakdowns
10 seconds coming up 👍
humpty ·
Is that the old "supercharged" long block Dave?
dangerous ·
That photo was thanks to Stanley who came over on his Friday off
to help with the engine and trans swap.
Thanks for your help dude.
The long block that I have been running was the old supercharged engine
that was upgraded with more comp and roller cam about 3 years ago.
THIS engine going in now, was what I ran when I first got back into racing n/a on 2nd July '05.
At that time I put about 25 drag runs and also dyno time on it.(11.43 & 116mph)
I have given it a birthday of more comression(from 12.7 up to 14:1),
and some more valve lift(.600" up to .690"), and some new mega pushrods.
It is virtually the same capacity(2699cc instead of 2715....0.5mm less stroke).
The best thing about this combo is the heads.
Craig Brown ported these some years ago for a Speedway customer.
I have freshened them up with my valves, and cut the seats.
They flow about 10% better, but with a smaller valve,
so I am hoping the car ET's better, despite the cam being 10 degrees smaller duration.
nbturbo ·
dangerous wrote:
---Now that's just "showing off".The rest of us would swap a left nut just to have one of those in the shed.I just read about your exploits at Warwick again-you have definately got the Green Light action sorted out-very well done.
vassy66T1 ·
Now that is what boxing day is for!!!!
Is everything staying the same in the fuel and electrical/ignition system?
dangerous ·
vassy66T1 wrote:Is everything staying the same in the fuel and electrical/ignition system?
Hi marcus,
everything is the same.
I will just richen up the fuel system for a safe starting point.
I will reduce the startline rpm to 7300 for the first one and just 'feel' the shift point for the first pass...but prob 8000.
Should be an interesting comparison.🙂
dangerous ·
Ready to go.
bond ·
turbo?! lol.... soooo do it!
nick
reub ·
you're such a tease....
hellbugged ·
dangerous wrote:
Ready to go.
hmmm........few ft short of intake and exhaust plumbing there D.B.......😎
can't wait for some T & T reports!
humpty ·
What's this Davo?.... You joining the 'dark side'?
Come on over... There's plenty of room!!😎
dangerous ·
Never am I going over to the dark side.
That one is my door stop,
(just like all turbos should be).
I am not a sheep.
vassy66T1 ·
Hey Dave
When do you plan for a T&T?
Will be an interesting comparison given the different head work and valve sizes, compression etc.
cheers
Marcus
PS. I've got a T4 doorstop at my place if you run short 😂
13BVW ·
Never say never Dave😂
humpty ·
dangerous wrote:.... I am not a sheep.
Baaaaaaaa
Stanley ·
I also heard a rumour Dave was thinking of going type IV power with the turbo and an auto tranny........😎
humpty ·
Stanley wrote:I also heard a rumour Dave was thinking of going type IV power with the turbo and an auto tranny........😎
Yeah.... And I heard he was gonna paint everything pink!
dangerous ·
Check it out.
Turn your volume right up!
Video thanks to Tom. 👍
humpty ·
dangerous wrote:
13BVW wrote:Never say never Dave😂
I have had my finger in a few turbo pies,
but mainly related to the cam and mechanical injection set-ups.
Funny you should say type 4/turbo/auto Stanley,
I reckon a '76 912, or 411 wagon would be OK for street machine.
Although I still have blowers on the mind...particularly centrifugal/LPG set-ups for the street.🤓
Hmmmmmm.
(Baaaaaaaa Simon!)
You've seen my mate Kurt's Eaton Supercharged WBX LBug right Dave?
Sure it's got water in there, but's bloody nice to drive!
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Good luck at the T'N'T later today mate. Look forward to some calls with updates and times etc etc.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
So how did we fare tonight Dangerous??
dangerous ·
OK, Just got home from testing new engine.
It is 2699cc, down from the old engine's 2715,
but it has 14:1 compresion instead of 13:1.
The cam has 265 degrees@.050 on the inlet lobe,
which is smaller than the old cam's 277 degrees, but now have .685" lift at the valve.
These heads have smaller valves(still 52.8!), but flow about 15cfm better(@10") than the old heads.
Because of the smaller cam I reduced startline rpm to 7300....still try to shift at 8000, but it keeps hitting the 8400 limiter.
Put what I thought was a rich pill in there and felt lazy-lean in 4th gear:
Ran 11.19 @ 116.67...LM-1 failed to record the A/F ratio and so went back to old ways and checked a plug.
Oops melted #2 plug....too lean.
Actually felt good to half track at 7.072@96.53, which should have been an 11.0 so yes, lean.
1.543 sixty.
Next run richened it up .002" on main pill, and adjusted high-speed to open a bit later.
Felt way better in burnout and launch, but missed third gear...damn.
Still lean in 4th? Hard to say: still no mixture meter at the end of the run.
11.86@116mph
1.555 sixty.
Just topped it up with fuel,
and backed off the clutch one turn.
Got back in the lanes.
Launched a little crooked, but not enough to require a back off:
11.061@119.4mph
still felt a bit lazy in 4th,(for a 120mph car that is)
but was a rocket to half track:
1.485 sixty
6.993@96.9 at half track.
I think it can run some tens no prob with a bit more fuel,
but it was a very busy T&T,
so ran out of time.
Prob 200 cars I reckon.
Priority now is not tens,
but get it ready for Portland.
May T&T or dyno again before I head off to Portland,
but with the 1/8 mile trans...so no tens yet.
vassy66T1 ·
Good start Dave ...
Very close to the other motor straight out of the 'box'.
Certainly will be 10's in it in time.
Stanley ·
Yep....good effort Dave. Great way to run an engine in with an 11.19. Car sounded strong every run.
I'll upload the vid of the 1st run tomorrow. Camera died after that.
Still reckon it would look good with that turbo bolted to it......😂
matberry ·
Well done Dave.
Shame Portland will get in the way of a 10 sec NA Volksie pass 😂😂.
STOCK ·
TOP STUFF DAVE
CONGRATS , HOW GOODS THAT,
STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOX.
I HAD A BEER WITH BRAD LAST NIGHT
WE WERE DISCUSSING , HOW WE'RE GUNNA GET THE
JUNKA READY FOR PORTLAND,WE'RE HOPING
TO HAVE SOME LITTLE SUPRISES TO SHOW YA!!
Sides ·
Good stuff Dave - sounds like there's a lot of potential in the new combo !!!
Lookin forward to seeing Stanley's vid.
👍
Boostn ·
1.48 sixty !!!!!!!!!
Awesome Dave!
About time you got more comp.
and the smaller duration will bring it up even more.
Good sign, I love it when you need more fuel in the top end, only means one thing!!!!
Now one more thing to add.
dangerous ·
Boostn wrote:Now one more thing to add.
Not till the dinosaurs return.🤪
Boostn ·
I'm not talking Turbo...............................
dangerous ·
CH3 NO2 ? 😁
Dasdubber ·
Nice work Dave, good to hear the new engine ran well (albeit small tuning bugs to sort out) at its first outing. Best of luck with the prep for portland.
Al
reub ·
Nice work Dave👍
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Troy tells me it sounds really really tough in the burnout with new donk. Congrats on the shake down of new engine with no drama's. How much more HP you reckon you might have over old engine?? 15-25HP and lots more torque??
Stanley ·
Have to wait another 24hrs for footage. brought it to work to upload and found 1 sec of footage at the end that might not be to everyones taste....an no it's not what you think...🙅
dangerous ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Troy tells me it sounds really really tough in the burnout with new donk. Congrats on the shake down of new engine with no drama's. How much more HP you reckon you might have over old engine?? 15-25HP and lots more torque??
I think at best it will be 10 hp.
The truth is I think it will be about the same out right,
but the increases at the 5000 to 7000 area
may be worth a couple of tenths in good air and sticky track.
dangerous ·
A couple of the runs on Saturday stumbled
as fuel from the breather hose on the fuel tank spilled down the intake
on the 1-2 shift...or 2-3 shift.
Anyhow, I have used this "roll over valve" on the tank to prevent it happening again.
The arrow points toward the top of the cap where it is tapped out to 7/8 UNF (-10 size)
I also ade up a fitting for drain-back on the oil catch can.
By being blank on the end,
it wont ever spray upward,
but can still drain back into the case.
Boostn ·
dangerous wrote:CH3 NO2 ? 😁
more racing less drinking😂
Stanley ·
Here 'tis....had to cut the last couple of seconds off because some dude walked in front. Best parts are there though.
STOCK ·
DAVE
THAT SOUNDS TUFF AS MATE
& AS USUAL STILL DRIVES STRAIGHT AS
AWSOME
dangerous ·
Thanks for posting the vid Andrew.
The speed on the first run was actually 116.67,
and melted a plug.
Even with the richer pill and 119.4mph on the last 11.06 run that plug was sill a bit lean.(beginning to droop)
But after all, I had only richened it about .002".
All the maintenance has come up sweet,
so just need to change trannies and get back out there for another test before Portland.(just run it to the limiter in 4th)
typethreeking ·
Engine sounded stronger each time you added more fuel. Theres a real good 10 sec pass in that engine for shore. You shouldnt have anymore fuel problems with that fitting on the tank cause it really dumped a far bit of fuel out that hose on gear change. Also no more oil all over the engine from the breather tank, wont have to remeber to turn the tap off each time. Good work and good luck for portland....
westi ·
top work dave.
nice mph.you would have to be happy.did you get wood.if you get my drift.
did you buy a mill yet.igot the links you sent.cheers.
i haven't bought one yet,i spent to much on other goodies and the ausy dollar was shit.ouch.
were's some more footage.
how's the clan going up your way.
peter(pinky)rod(cowboy) and the brothers grim,
i will give you a call soon to pick your brains,i am about to start doing my head stuff.ouch more money.i love it,
congrates once again and i hope to see more vid's soon.
dangerous ·
Hi Westi,
still saving up for a mill.
Unfortunately there was a 4000 dollar price rise!
I will see what is left in the kitty after Portland.
May have to sell an engine.
westi ·
kidney first.then engine.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
westi wrote:top work dave.
nice mph.you would have to be happy.did you get wood.if you get my drift.
did you buy a mill yet.igot the links you sent.cheers.
i haven't bought one yet,i spent to much on other goodies and the ausy dollar was shit.ouch.
were's some more footage.
how's the clan going up your way.
peter(pinky)rod(cowboy) and the brothers grim,
i will give you a call soon to pick your brains,i am about to start doing my head stuff.ouch more money.i love it,
congrates once again and i hope to see more vid's soon.
"brother's grim" are going good. Kombi running well and Fasty still has some minor issues whihc Troy is sorting out soon.
STOCK ·
BRAD & I WERE ALSO WONDERING HOW TRENTS MUM WAS GOING
& IS SHE STILL WILLING TO SHELF IT
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Prolly best to chat to Troy about that one......
After all he is the manager and I'm just the shite kicker LOL
typethreeking ·
finally brennden has learnt his place...lol
Boostn ·
Dave, ready for Portland?
dangerous ·
Hi Nick,
yes all ready.
Going to try and squeeze in another test and tune next week.
I have the 1/8 mile tranny back in now, and feel I have the tune up close enough(we'll see).
Here's what the 1/8 mile tranny sounds like.
mactaylor ·
good air down in portland dave might have to richen it a bit more but its only an eighth!
STOCK ·
DAVE SHE'S SOUNDS PRETTY ON SONG MATE
Boostn ·
dangerous wrote:Hi Nick,
yes all ready.
Going to try and squeeze in another test and tune next week.
I have the 1/8 mile tranny back in now, and feel I have the tune up close enough(we'll see).
Here's what the 1/8 mile tranny sounds like.
Yep love it Dave, got it in the e-mail weeks ago.
Good to hear your ready, can't wait.
If I break my car early we could put the inboard camera in yours for some inboard footage of the winning 8 final.
cool.
get Pete to come down.
byronmcmanus59 ·
mactaylor wrote:good air down in portland dave might have to richen it a bit more but its only an eighth!
its humid as faark here atm.. mid 40's today and 43 tomorrow..
dangerous ·
Gee I hope there is a change in the weather by then, that is a stoinker in a long black race suit.(two layer wool)
Last year we had 40 up here on the Goldy and it was less than 15...(prob less than 10 wind chill at Portland)
Just got bck from the testa-matune to make sure everything is working for Portland.
Three runs.
Ran it to the 8400 limiter which was right on the half track MPH light....then coast the rest of the way.
Starting even richer this time, it went:
7.042@96.73 with a 1.492 short time. (coast to a 11.83@88.69 after half track)(.012" richer than Warwick...ie six jet sizes richer)
6.971@97.57 with 1.484 sixty. (coast to 11.75@87.74) slightly leaner pill by 0.002"
7.067@97.11 with a 1.52 sixty...way out of shape off the line
(open high speed 1/8 turn earlier(about 2psi sooner)),
and in second gear had to lift just a bit to stop the back end sliding out.(coast to 11.92@86.74).
Each run I made slight tune changes,
and last run felt excellent even though it was a very untidy run.
The MPH on the last one showed that it was on song to recover so well.
The reason it went crooked was due to a burnout that went side ways and had to abort the tyre warming.
Thanks to Stanley for coming out after work on short notice to help.
westi ·
i don't know about anyone else,but at portland last year i smelt polar bear shit.(f--k it was coooollllldddd).
good to see all is like clock work for you as always.
but you can relax the fat controller(mankini) won't be aloud to come play in portland.and i don't think we will be able to either.not enough hour's in the day's left to complete the junka.
but we might come down to watch,we will have to wait and see.
who you got going down with you.
matberry ·
Dave is a machine....Westi , mankini or not ... no chance.
I got a ride offered so spectating may have to do...cant miss this one, just have to bring a jumper.
byronmcmanus59 ·
yeah well the forecast for the next couple days is.. tomorrow aka today.. is 44,
Friday low 40's, sat 39, Sunday 38... late summer.. its a totally different heat here..
but hey.. last year was your typical Portland shitty weather.. farking freezing..
Stanley ·
Good night last night Davo. It was funny to here the the scream of the volksy engine to half track, hit the llimiter and coast the the other half.
Best was still smoking the V8 boys in a little volksy while coasting half the way.
Also....what a differance in T&Ts. A few weeks ago 200 plus cars 1 1/2 hours between runs.
Last night maybe 40 cars and 3 runs in an 1 1/2 hours.
STOCK ·
matberry wrote:Dave is a machine....Westi , mankini or not ... no chance.
I got a ride offered so spectating may have to do...cant miss this one, just have to bring a jumper.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A CHALLENGE MATT MMMMM 🤓
dangerous ·
Here is a graph of the rpm for the out of shape run.
The GREEN arrow is launch rpm and you can see it drops to about 6700 on the clutch.
The BLUE is the rpm in first gear, slightly short shift when it went to the right.
The PURPLE line shows the second gear spike and the obvious short shift/back-off when it went wayward.
The PINK is third gear right up to 8400,
and the RED is the 4th gear peak at the 8400 rev limiter.
matberry ·
STOCK wrote:
matberry wrote:Dave is a machine....Westi , mankini or not ... no chance.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A CHALLENGE MATT MMMMM 🤓
Dangerous, be concerned, Stock WANTS to wear this bloody thing ( sorry mate ).
Oh, good logger pic.
dangerous ·
Gross Man!
vassy66T1 ·
You guys need a freakin' hobby !!!!! 🤪
dangerous ·
Turns out the 6.971 @ 97.57mph is the quickest it has gone to half track.
The 11.006 @ 121.46 was only 6.98 @ 97.32 (last year),
All my maintenance is done for Portland now.
One tappet was .001" loose, and filter was clean.
So car is all set.
My entry is in.
Just finishing prep on tow and trailer.
andrewmurphy ·
if wearing a mankini got me girls that look like that, i would consider one. lol
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Glad all is good for Portland mate. Fly the flag nice and high for us Qld'ers and come home with the goods as usual!!
STOCK ·
dangerous wrote:Turns out the 6.971 @ 97.57mph is the quickest it has gone to half track.
The 11.006 @ 121.46 was only 6.98 @ 97.32 (last year),
SOUNDS AWSOME DAVE CONGRATS
10 SEC PASS HERE WE COME
Sides ·
AWESOME numbers, and love that RPM graph you have there DB... that Innovate data logging stuff is so cool.
Curious though since I'm tryin to learn how to interpret these logs better, what do you make of the brief drop just below 8k in 4th ??? Does the AF graph do anything funky there, or is it maybe just something hokey in the RPM log ???
dangerous ·
Hi Dave,
yeah, just some funky log interference I think.
Car was running sweet.
Logging the A/F ratio has always been trouble though.
Sides ·
Yeah, OK - I'd forgotten about your AF logging issue, so if the car feels sweet guess it must just be a logging glitch.
Starting to think there's obviously some hidden tricks to getting the logs stable - my RPM log still cuts out at 5k - just another thing on my list to get fixed/finished !!!
dangerous ·
Data from Portland:
ETs:
7.234
7.125
6.996
7.252
7.093
7.113
7.216
7.901(mssed 2nd gear)
7.110
6.962
Hey Dave, Congrat's looks like you had a great weekend at portland, wish i could have gone.
just waiting on word from rod about that box for my drag car so i'll let you know when i find out.
cherrs Dave!
Stanley ·
What's going on DB.
No posting for over 3 months. People might think your fitting that turbo. That's how rumours start.
dangerous ·
Stanley wrote:What's going on DB.
No posting for over 3 months. People might think your fitting that turbo. That's how rumours start.
Nothing much exciting Stanley.
I am conserving funds in the saving plan to get a milling machine.
So most likely the next time the car comes out of moth balls will be the VW Warwick event.
I already knew that.
it's way to quiet so thought i'd try and get something happening.
You're always tinkering with something.
typethreeking ·
what about you stanley, what have you been up to, have you got your engine all sorted and back together..??
Stanley ·
engines going back together now. I'll update my post when I stop being so lazy.
dangerous ·
OK, did some tinkering since I had a free afternoon.
I kept thinking how it would be nice to have the best of both worlds,
from my dyno graph a while back.
If you have a look at the blue line on the graph,
you can see how much extra power and torque it had
with the long ram tubes (with high nozzles) at lower RPM.
(5-5500rpm)...at which point it has over 200 at the wheels.
But it runs out of steam fast,
so I have left two short rams with the nozzle low down to get the power up at the 8000 plus area.(red line)
dangerous ·
Long ram tubes for max torque and short for max power at high rpm.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Now if you could only make them adjustable on the move so they start off long and then shorten as you get more revs on the tacho....
dangerous ·
I might add, that the length of the runner before was 13" from the top, to valve seat.
And the original long runner was 19".
so I have fudged each a little closer to each other and they are now 14" and 18".
The 14" is about the same as the common length with say,
IDA's on an autocraft or Comp Elim manifold.
I also changed the intake radius inside the tubes to a more tapered version about 9 degrees.
bajachris88 ·
is this all the same as making em long for the natural supercharging effect via the intake air speed being increased because the intake per cylinder is smaller?
And of course, shorter, for the increased volume in air at high rpm?
dangerous ·
Not really to do with volumes or speed....although i am sure they contribute to some engine characteristics.
There are energy waves that flow through the charge , mainly from the opening and closing of the intake valve.
These are reflected and produced from the valve AND the top of the tubes(due to density change or reflectin at those points).
The various lengths help to cancel or amplify these pulses, some times for good and some times for bad.
Or at least that is my understanding.
Exhaust has te same pulses doing similar things, only at greater heat and volume.
polak ·
dangerous wrote:Not really to do with volumes or speed....although i am sure they contribute to some engine characteristics.
There are energy waves that flow through the charge , mainly from the opening and closing of the intake valve.
These are reflected and produced from the valve AND the top of the tubes(due to density change or reflectin at those points).
The various lengths help to cancel or amplify these pulses, some times for good and some times for bad.
Or at least that is my understanding.
Exhaust has te same pulses doing similar things, only at greater heat and volume.
thats nutts... lol you take technical to a whole new level dave 🤪🤪
nasty ·
From what I make of it, the intake runner length comes into effect when the intake valve shuts, creating a high pressure area (from the incoming charge) behind the valve which sends an energy wave back to the inlet opening, then sending a reverse wave back towards the valve. If the intake runner length is optimum, the reverse wave will arrive at the valve when it is open, helping fill the cylinder. (Kind of supercharging effect) Only beneficial at a very narrow rpm range.
dangerous ·
That is a much better way to describe it Michael.
You can see in the orange curve above (up-down-up)
what happens when the engine parts (cam, heads etc) suit one rpm peak,
and the intake length suits another.
The orange curve had a peak at 6200 instead of 7800/8000 rpm.
The only change being the intake runner length.
polak ·
dangerous wrote:The next step was to find some doner chips to sacrifice.
These ones on the 9000 rpm scale will do fine.
I peel off the sticker, and inside is a precision resistor that I picked out, so that I can put in the replacement.
Based on my measurements with the multi meter, I got some resistors that were within my range,
and soldered them into the MSD carcass.
You can get these from Dick Smith or Tandy.
The legs are hollow, so I unsoldered the old, and installed the new.
Now all that was left was to try them in the car and test the limiter using the tach.
3.29 K Ohms was 4800 rpm.
3.58 K Ohms was 5100 rpm.
3.87 K Ohms was 5400 rpm.
and 4.22 K Ohms was 5800 rpm.
From the MSD chips that I had , 3000 chip measured 1.9 K Ohms and the 6000 chip measured 4.57 K Ohms.
It would have been quicker to just buy the correct chips from MSD, but I want to try a few different launch RPMs before I buy, plus I like to tinker too.
Thats brilliant Dave!!!!!! iv been trying to motivate myself to try and figure these little guys out and i wanted to make my own as well... thanks heaps for posting this stuff up, saves me alot of time and guess work🤓 thanks dave!!!!
coletrickle ·
adjustable ram tubes were used on the le mans winning mazda 787 rotary back in 91 or 92 but you can just imagin the budget they had for that program!But knowing dave his budget is probally what the mazda team spent on breakfast at lemans(no disrepect intended dave)so we probally won't see any on daves car soon👎sniffle:
matberry ·
I believe the coletrickle budget is less than half that mentioned above 😂
dangerous ·
couple of light springs up to the wing,
and some sliding tubes should do the trick.
Sides ·
dangerous wrote:couple of light springs up to the wing,
and some sliding tubes should do the trick.
What would make them slide down against the spring... air pressure from the car moving, or is it just that the engine will be drawing that much more air through it would sort of suck them down ???
grogy ·
i wish i knew half of what i am reading.......... at least then i might be able to finish my car. awesome work dave, i wish i was in qld i drop car of at your place
dangerous ·
Sides wrote:just that the engine will be drawing that much more air through it would sort of suck them down ???
That is the theory.
But I am too lazy to actually do anything I think.
Sides ·
dangerous wrote:
Sides wrote:just that the engine will be drawing that much more air through it would sort of suck them down ???
That is the theory.
But I am too lazy to actually do anything I think.
Right, OK - sounds reasonable I think.
Tell ya what tho, I'd have thought lazy was about the last word anyone would use to describe you dangerous !!!
polak ·
probably seen it, but found this on youtube...
dangerous ·
With only two months til Warwick I thought it was time to pull my finger out.
I plan to replace the single blade spring plates with dual ones from a type 3.
But because I use the short tortion bars, here is my plan.
dangerous ·
Then made up the "press on" ring to support the outer bush.
Just have to fit them now.
polak ·
lol u always spin me out dave, the stuff you come up with 😂 love it, wish i had that sort of tuning knowledge, might have to pic your brain a little at warwick🤪 gorgeous welding, is that your handy work?
dangerous ·
That's not gorgeous.
That is a normal stick weld.
polak ·
stick weld?!!!! lol i thought u did that with a mig!! hahaha damn i need to get some welding practice in that case😀
Boostn ·
it's all about strength hey Dave?
dangerous ·
Hi Nick,
yeah just a bit of extra resistance to flex I hope.
Not sure that it was a problem really,
but can't hurt.
Also, could not hurt to replace the rubber bushes with urethane!!
I could have sworn I had them in there already,
but looks like only the inner was urethane, and the outer was stock brazil rubber.
Not bad for mid 1.40 sixties.
Boostn ·
wow rubber and still 1.40????
nice
make sure you grease them up, the squeak drives me nuts
mactaylor ·
nic you must have a steering wheel coming out of your zipper!!!!!
polak ·
i ditched the mig today and brought out the old stick, still cant see how u managed that weld dave 🤪 i can get a really nice bead going but nothing as flat and true as yours.... maybe iv gotten too lazy with using my mig and need to practice with the old stuff again 😂
on another note, hows that new rear setup going? is that a kombi swing arm? ready for warwick or are you going to run the old setup in the mean time? also have u got any leads on machined alloy velocity stacks for 48 idf's? all i can find is the standard tin ones, which was hard enough to find in 4 inch tall.... maybe i just dont know where to look, but im after the nice spun alloy ones that bolt up with 2 nuts each. might have to notch the top aswell, as the idf's are alot closer together than ida.🤪 considering the amount u experiment u may have a set in your collection u wish to 'off-load'....
cheers adam
Boostn ·
mactaylor wrote:nic you must have a steering wheel coming out of your zipper!!!!!
Your killing me !
That's really funny reading it that way.
That's more Dave's humor isn't it?
dangerous ·
Finally the weetbix and dry bread diet can end!
reub ·
WOW Dave... 👍
Mick058 ·
Hare & Forbes?
colonel mustard ·
Yummy 🙂 I have found a new machinist... Wooooot 🙂
vassy66T1 ·
Holy crap Dave!!!
I think we need to put some steel gates around your house in case someone with a Franna crane is driving past 😏
dangerous ·
Spent all afteroon cleaning some of the preservative off the machine.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Well the diet has done you good by the looks of the pic mate. Imagine how much faster you will be LOL
as for that piece of kit... we look forward to the creations it will churn out with you at the controls...
dangerous ·
Yes it is a Hare and Forbes (HAFCO)
.... NOT CHINA, but Taiwanese BM-70 VE machine.
Unfortunately have to wait til next week to get it wired in, so just looking and fondling this week end.
Next job will be closing-in the workshop for weather and security.
It is now anchored into the conca so good luck stealing it
matberry ·
Awesome Dave. Nothing will hold you back now, you must be stoked.👍
chunks54 ·
Sweet!
Sides ·
Looks awesome Dave - there's enough toys in that last photo to make anyone envious I reckon !!!
Curious though... is that one of the new heads I see you're trialling up on the mill ???
typethreeking ·
Great stuff dave, now you will be dreaming up all those things you have always wanted to make and couldnt and now you can, will have to drop around and check it out, and yes its bigger than crankshafts milling machine !!!!
FROSTY ·
Worth the wait? shit yes!!!!
dangerous ·
Sure was, here are some of the accessories.
6" vice:
And various salubrious boring and machining tools!
oldskl60 ·
Wow Dave that looks speeeecccial!!
Would love to know what all the tools are for... But in my case ingnorance is bliss so I will assume there ain't gonna be much you can't do!
Nice work, keep us posted with some of your creations.
westi ·
cool dave, nice accessories and awsome mill.
question for you dave.
in the picture dave.
is that smile on your face because you just ate your first real meal after all that saving,and if so ,what was the first meal like,or are you just happy cause it's finally there.
oldskl60 all you need to know is that they cost heaps and make daves day sooooo muuuuchhh better.
dangerous ·
Even happier today,
got it wired in, and took its frst cuts.
Advertised rpm range is 70 up to 4200, but it actually goes down to 40rpm and upto 5200 with the digital speed controller...awesome.
typethreeking ·
awesome stuff dave, you can really flow your fuel system now before warwick
Aussie ·
Great stuff Dave, really chuffed for you.
westi ·
gota love a man with a new toy.
i quess you have been itching to use it.i didn't know it wasn't powered up in the photo.
come on dave what else you been muking around with.there must be something.
Dasdubber ·
Wow Dave, the new mill looks great! I bet your list of "friends" just got a little longer considering all the cool gear you can now work your magic on 🙂
Al
dangerous ·
Flowed the fuel system today using the mill to drive the mechanical pump.
Nozzles go into a 3 litre bottle, and noting the fuel pressures at various rpms:
dangerous ·
This is the barrel valve that varies the fuel flow at part throttle.
And this is the "high speed" which bleeds off fuel at high rpm after the power peak is reached.
The guage is so I can note the pressures,
and the hose is so I can observe the point at which it opens.
It works kind of like a diafragm regulator to limit system pressure once the engine needs no extra fuel .
dangerous ·
I flowed the WHOLE system, even removed the fuel tank and line from the car.
Stanley ·
shit Dave....is there anything you can't do with a lathe or mill?
What was the results?
STIDUB ·
cnc water cutting to do custom 4x130 & 5x205 wheels next on the list? 😂
dangerous ·
You dont need CNC gear to make wheel centres.
Anyone with a pair of dividers and a centre punch can do that.
Helps having a digital readout and a milling machine though!
The Flow test of the fuel system results?
Nothing exciting to report really.
Because I had to go SO much richer mixtures at Portland,
the system pressure was higher,
and this made the "high speed" open way too soon.
So I have selected a variety of "highspeed" settings to match the various pills.
Next stop: dyno....or just to warwick if time is tight.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Good luck at the dyno dude!! Hope all goes well!!
dangerous ·
Nothing ground breaking from the dyno testing.
Initial testing with the long ram tubes and high nozzles proved to be very nasty with the power curve being very(199hp) low and "all over" by about 7000.
Trying to lean it off lost power and torched a plug.
So I cut my losses, shortened the two long ones, and moved the nozzles back down low.
With the base line tuneup back in there,(as flowed on the mill),
it came back with about 219hp.
Best it got was 220.4 with final tweaking of both main and high speed adjustments.
Stanley ·
That's a shame Dave. You don't know until you try.
At least you have a good baseline anyway for future mods.
dangerous ·
With that final tune it pulled all the way to the 8400 limiter (scale on sheet not correct),
and this engine combo has much more torque, despite being a little low on outright power.
...although that is the same peak power as it had when it ran 11.00@121.46.
The rpm for the new graphs need to be shifted right, to align with the 8400 rev limiter, like the old graph from 2008.
Stanley ·
Did you have the 1/8th mile box fitted last time?
Houndog ·
DEAR DAVE...DON'T WORRY ABOT THOSE POWER FIGURES,YOU CAN DRIVE MINE..AS LONG AS YOU LEND ME
THOSE GREEN BALLS--ROD & I WILL NEED THOSE FOR A HIT OF TENNIS AS HE NEEDS SOME EXTREME FITNESS ENCOURAGEMENT.FAT ROD IS CALLING IN FOR MORNING TEA TOMORROW..CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT HE BRINGS...IT WILL BE A PITY THAT IT IS NOT YOUR MUFFINS !!!ROSS.
dangerous ·
Last time the car had the 1/4 mile trans fitted. (8400=122.7mph)
this time it was 1/8 mile ratios, (8400=98.4mph),
but he tried to match up the rpm graph, but it is not quite right.
The power looks to be above 210 all the way from about 6300.
...that level power line make for fast times I hope,
mph prob not much better.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
More torque and roughly the same power.... I call it a win!!
After all torque wins races....
Stanley ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:After all torque wins races....
Only in kombi's...🤪
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
But they have to be orange LOL....
dangerous ·
Back home from Warwick, great event, as usual, from Craig and his crew and all the other racers and fans.
No fantastic wins for me but I had a ball, cane-ing the crap out of my Volksy.
Left the tune exactly as it ran from the dyno on Wednesday,
and only adjusted the wheely bars on Sunday morning, to settle down some out of control launches from Saturday.
ETs:
6.73 (bogus I reckon judjing by the 1.12 sixty foot time).
7.27 out of shape...had to lift off the throttle for a second.
7.06
7.34 whoops nearly hit the tree!
7.00 see 2:12 mins in : Thats the 8400 limiter at the end of the run.
7.19 big wheely so short shift and lazy into 2nd gear.
7.09 dial in on Sunday
7.10
7.01 break out but win.
6.96 break out and lose to rohan.
Sixty Foot times:
1.128 bogus
1.481
1.530
1.651 (the one when I nearly hit the tree).
1.503
1.517
1.503
1.501
1.454 (good one).
dangerous ·
All in All, I was happy with the engine.
Despite having the same, or less power than the old combo,
the combination of parts proved to be slightly faster than last year....both in ET and MPH.
Very happy with the 6.96 considering the high altitude.
My guess is it probably weighs about 5kgs heavier too,
with the dual spring plates and rusty, lard-arsed driver.
vwfastback ·
Good consistancy on the runs Dave.
There would be many who called that first run, the real thing. Good on you for being honest.
dangerous ·
Actually over the corse of the week end there were a few of those, "WORLDS BEST SIXTY FOOT TIMES",
it will be interesting to see who owns up to them.
I think the startline beam may have been faulty,and it may have cost a few some wins,with break outs and such
but it was all a good, fun week end either way.
vassy66T1 ·
Great runs Dave!
The motor definitely sounds different to the other.
The wild launches on Saturday made for some excitement 😵💫
Sides ·
I'll always remember that first run of yours on the Saturday DB... had the perfect vantage point from the other lane to watch you disappear into the distance.... just frikken awesome !!!
Triple X ·
dangerous wrote:Actually over the corse of the week end there were a few of those, "WORLDS BEST SIXTY FOOT TIMES",
it will be interesting to see who owns up to them.
I think the startline beam may have been faulty,and it may have cost a few some wins,with break outs and such
but it was all a good, fun week end either way.
A true sportsman and congratulations for it. It is just ashame there are not more people like this. Some out there would claim a 'bogus' time as their own and then tell the world how good they are.
This may sould like a very dumb question Mr Butler. But do you run your ram tudes at all the same length?
Stanley ·
Awsome effort DB.
Faulty timing gear or not, Like Marcus said those wheelies on saturday were great to watch.
Mick058 ·
was great to watch Dave - nice to meet you - finally found out why they called you muffin man. In all honesty they actually were very nice!
Cheers mate, hope to catch up more at future events.
dangerous ·
Triple X wrote:
dangerous wrote:Actually over the corse of the week end there were a few of those, "WORLDS BEST SIXTY FOOT TIMES",
it will be interesting to see who owns up to them.
I think the startline beam may have been faulty,and it may have cost a few some wins,with break outs and such
but it was all a good, fun week end either way.
A true sportsman and congratulations for it. It is just ashame there are not more people like this. Some out there would claim a 'bogus' time as their own and then tell the world how good they are.
This may sould like a very dumb question Mr Butler. But do you run your ram tubes at all the same length?
Thanks for the kind words guys.
Yes nice to finally meet you too Mick.
That car of yours is absolutely beautiful in the flesh.
Nice fast and consistent times in the 8's too!
Good to see you get to the finals.
Hi Triple X,
I ended up using all the same length,(14" to the valve), because on the dyno last Wednesday, the odd length ones did not have the result I had imagined.
I think there may be something to try in that area,
but it all costs dyno time and the true gains are probably not worth the effort.
typethreeking ·
good job again as always dave, some good results again, more improvements for next year???
chunks54 ·
Great results, makes the hard work worthwhile I hope! Nice one....
Boostn ·
Thanks for all your help over the weekend Mr B !!
colonel mustard ·
20bkombi ·
Hi dave, awesome weekend!!! 6.96 with a 1.454 60ft the best way to break out, better then a trophy (takes balls not to hit the brakes)😉
A 1/4mile run would be good to see soon.
pity about the wheeli bars getting caught up, should be fixable yeah?
dangerous ·
Hi Aaron, yeah wheely bars should be a straight forward fix.
The flat on the bottom bars is just 50x6 aluminium,
and the top tubes are 1.125 x .060" WALL TUBE.
That "special metals" mob that advertises in VWMA have great service and price,
so I might order some tube from them.
They did great service when I ordered my push rod material.
humpty ·
Wow Dave.... Your certainly showing the consistency mate.... Awesome effort.
dangerous ·
colonel mustard ·
man... they are huge!
Stanley ·
Don't think that gasket will fit DB...🙂
OLD-DOG ·
Dear Dave...I hope you do not loose too much air acceleration when you fit those Rolls Royce Merlin type inlets.Give it plenty of lift so when those roos go in they can't get out !!! Ross.
hellbugged ·
what a life you've got DB! 😎
063bug ·
.... just hope the vaccum isn't too great during tuning or you'll disappear down one of those throats...... make sure you strap a surfboard to your back just in case 🙂
Stanley ·
early and late model shock towers for narrowed front ends
westi ·
they look heavy.
Stanley ·
they are a bit. Maybe some more lightening required
dangerous ·
Got some chromoly tube from "PERFORMANCE METALS" in Sydney.
And Stanley's lazer cut plates for the ends.
Plan is for link pin beam with ball joint spacing for the frame head.
Link pin stuff is lighter, and can move through its travel with no binding.
matberry ·
Wow Dave. You making the link pin carrier with the wider spacing too?
dangerous ·
Was not planning to make new link pin carriers Matt,
but now you have me thinking!
dangerous wrote:Got some chromoly tube from "PERFORMANCE METALS" in Sydney.
And Stanley's lazer cut plates for the ends.
Plan is for link pin beam with ball joint spacing for the frame head.
Link pin stuff is lighter, and can move through its travel with no binding.
matberry ·
dangerous wrote:Was not planning to make new link pin cariersMat,
but now you have me thinking!
If you use the stock carriers Dave, the caster will be changing drasticly through the suspension travel......can't be good IMO.
dangerous ·
The caster will change, but will not be drastic.
(1.05 degrees better caster than link pin under full compression).
Stock link pin spacing is 10mm different to the tube spacing, and mine will be 20mm.
Both combinations will improve the caster situation under compression.
This assumes the ride height is set with the trailing arms in their neutral position,
which is where I like to set them.
matberry ·
Well that sounds very usable, I thought the caster would vary more than that. How much travel are you allowing for with that calculation, maybe your idea would work for offroad applications too. As you said, the king and link is lighter, but also provides more travel and the widely spaced beam of the ball joint front end is stronger.
Stanley ·
they are a nice fit.
Gotta love 3D modeling...👍
dangerous ·
Yes, the planets are aligning with the 'fit' of both the end plates and bearings,
being soft hammer tight.
Matt, my calcs were done using a total wheel travel of 100mm.
Offroad travel amouts will increase the caster change,
but longer trailing arms so often used in off road aplications will improve this.
Ideally no caster change would be the best option,
but for my own application, no toe change is my greatest concern.
...and at my preferred trailing arm angle there is very little.
Dak-A-Tak ·
What car guys , frame head to change as well ? what are or reasons for this ? I can't really see the need as the only time a major toe in change would be on landing after a huge wheel stand , in which is for a very ,very short time (can all so adjust with straps too for drop out toe in change ). Plus you don't set or car up as a wheelstander anyway .
When you say compression Dave is this under brakes ? If car is wondering under brakes there is other things wrong , rear to high (angle of car to much ) toe in at rear wrong , things worn in front suspension , or even not enough caster on front end .
Like people coming up with new idea's but like to see more , stanley car ( isn't fast enough) but your car is fast but hasn't showed any bad handling yet (maybe alittle heavy) ?
cheers peter
Sides ·
Could it perhaps be a secret plot of DB's to make his drag car able to go round corners ???
🥷
SuperOwen ·
You may be right, he needs to lose weight up the front to compensate for the added weight of the radiator needed for the TDi conversion......the cats out of the bag......
matberry ·
WOW NEWS FLASH......DB going TDi........🤪🤪🤪
dangerous ·
No boat anchors for me!!
Although I think all road cars should be TDi or electric!
The reason for my tubes being that way, is because my current beam and frame head, is already ball joint.
It is not a new idea, Mike Lawless has been running this exact idea for a few years.
My car handles perfectly,(when on more than one wheel),
but since Stanley was making a new narrowed beam for his car,(tyres rubbing),
I thought I would take advantage of his new found skills with the design of the end plates,
and in exchange, get some thinner wall chromoly tube, and CBB adjusters to make a lighter (and stronger) front beam.
A basic linkpin beam would have been easier,
but since my frame head was already balljoint,
making a whole new beam was less painfull and messy to change over.
dangerous ·
Been nothing much new to report since the last post,
but I DO have the wheel bars all fixed using Cromoly tube,
and also plan to swap th 1/4 mile trans back in this week.
No going to portland this year, but thanks to those guys that offered a ride and place to stay as a spectator,
but will stay at home.
Spent some time on the CD heads.
dangerous ·
Roughing out the inlet ports with a 7/8" end mill.(Thanks Dave Stoker for donating the end milling cutter!).
Then use the boring head tilted over to come in from the chamber side.
dangerous ·
Also used the boring head to rough out the chamber side of the exhaust seat.
...and then about an hour to rough out the remaining material in ONE inlet port.
Just needs minor detailing on this one.
Three more inlets to go...😬😂
dangerous ·
This is a 44 mm inlet valve inside the port.
tassupervee ·
Pfff....wont work...not big enough...crap flow....dodgey workmanship...sheesh!.........pffft!😀😀😀
STIDUB ·
FARRRRKKKKKKKKK, so how long till we can test the aerodynamics of the early bug/late bug/super, with kamei spoiler/aeros/ whale tails etc in this wind tunnel you are creating?
sides told me to look, bastard could of warned me id fall in when i did 😂
nice work DB, hows the heat at yours when your doing these? its stinkin hot in brissy! 🥲
Sides ·
Forget pigeons or even small children... this new combo will eat low flying aircraft !!!
😉
dangerous ·
Port is actually a tad smaller than current heads.
Valve is 54mm.
66deluxe ·
Lovely stuff Dave, bet that new mill is a joy to work with.
pete wood ·
love to see you do that with a stock casting. 😂
but seriously. what capacity and revs are you aiming at with such a big port?
dangerous ·
pete wood wrote:love to see you do that with a stock casting. 😂
but seriously. what capacity and revs are you aiming at with such a big port?
You COULD use a stock casting if you like welding, hehe.
If you want n/a power, and want strength and reliability, it makes sense to get an aftermarket casting.
The port is actually no bigger than before (old heads),
so power peak around 8000 on 2700cc.
...but half thinking of using my old 90mm crank (Bertha) to bring the capacity up to 2965cc,(as my supercharged engine was).
Stanley ·
so I guess we'll be seeing 10's soon....👍
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
yes do it bring Bertha back to life!!!
humpty ·
Stanley wrote:so I guess we'll be seeing 10's soon....👍
Sheesh Dave.....🤖
STOCK ·
holy crap dave they look awsome
you are a freak
10's are coming i can smell it
dangerous ·
I want tens from the old combo first.
Stanley ·
C'mon Davo what's doing?
It was weeks ago we changed the tranny. Weather is perfect for running a 10...😵
typethreeking ·
hes been busy doing some turbo mods for my fastback!! bigger is better
dangerous ·
Test and Tune 17th march,
wed night....better pull my finger out.
frosty has been dropping around to spur me on.
Tried to use a cracked brake rotor as an excuse, and a rotor appears the next day!!
Stanley ·
dangerous wrote:frosty has been dropping around to spur me on.
He dropped by the day we changed trannies....does he ever work...😎
dangerous ·
dangerous wrote:I want tens from the old combo first.
And the first Aussie to do it without a chopped roof!
(normally aspirated).🤓
reub ·
WOW DUDE! Must be stoked....
Congrats👍
Boostn ·
WOW
congrats dude !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
F@ckin Awsome !!!!!!
it was only a matter of time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dangerous ·
The clutch slid in low gear for about a car length, so 60 foot was a slug at 1.52,(best is 1.44),
but other than that it was a clean run.
8375rpm thru the finish.
7500 launch and 8000 shift.
Car weighs about 1775lbs.(806kg)
ANDRA steward sent me home after that one...bummer.
matberry ·
Brilliant Dave. Well deserved.
westi ·
about time,so close ,and then bam there it is,thats top's dude,coming down for compact attack now.or will the car be going on a diet.
awsome mph,you must be stoked.
cound'nt let pete get there first.love it.
maybe the extra pressure for pete to run a ten might cause a few cherries.😵💫😵💫
200kg diet= very low ten's.
get cutting ,cut cut cut.
top 8 for warwick just keep's getting harder and harder.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Congrats Dave. Well deserved!!! Got the text message at 10pm last night.
Shame the stewards sent you home!! Imagine what could have been....
Aussie ·
Well done Dave - you must be stoked!!!🙅
trickysimon ·
Congratz Dave! So you should be in the 9s by next week then aye? 😂
Martin Taylor ·
Well done!
Stanley ·
Not to mention they waited until we got to the front then showed the red card.
But what a way to go. Evicted for going too fast in a volksy....well done Davo.....👍
Reminded me of a time getting kicked out of a strip clup for touching what I shouldn't have....but that's another story.
dangerous ·
Thanks Stanley for your help,
and also to Dak-a-tak Pete, Rod R, Troy, STI Dave&Steph, Dave Sides, and the Frosty crew,
for coming out to support the Volksies at the T&T.
dangerous ·
Just for reference,
the tune-up was exactly the same as dynoed last September,
and as per the runs I had at VW Warwick last year,
when it had 220.4 hp at the wheels.
The car weighed 1785 lbs at Warwick,(811kg with me in the seat),
and I have since replaced the brakes,
to remove the heavy late type 3 calipers,
so now have beetle calipers, and made some new 7075 aluminium brackets.
Guess about 5kg saving.
I also went for some ACE 75 synthetic oil for the gearbox,(was using 80W90 before).
and went for ACE 30 for the engine.(was using ACE40).
Engine oil pressure was excellent,
and shift quality was noticably better!!
dangerous ·
Also fixed the broken wheely bars, but that is nothing major,
just used cromo tube instead of the original pool fence tube.
Old brakes used these calipers and some "machined out" front rotors (instead of the 914 ones in these pics).
NEW STUFF:
dangerous ·
dangerous ·
The off set on the caliper bracket enabled me to machine the back entirely off the hub,
to allow me to move the wheels inboard about 22mm.
BeetleJuice ·
WOW...I guess you can chase Berg's time now!😎
Congrats.
Sides ·
Yeah, awesome work DB - stoked to have been there to see it, and could also see how there's still more in it.
I'm with Stanley tho... getting sent home for going too quick in Volksy, what a way to go... not that I think I'll ever understand the phrase "too quick" !!!
👍
Dak-A-Tak ·
Happy , Happy , Happy , Bluddy great my friend ! , it was so good, to be there ,to watch that mile stone fall, mate ! .
Yes I do have it on video , just have to get Lisa to do a COOL youtube for your .
Now , it never ends , new heads , maybe loss more weight from car , but still have fun !
Big Fat ! good one , mate .
Craig Torrens ·
Awesome result dave 👍
dangerous ·
Dak-A-Tak wrote:Happy , Happy , Happy , Bluddy great my friend ! , it was so good, to be there ,to watch that mile stone fall, mate ! .
Yes I do have it on video , just have to get Lisa to do a COOL youtube for your .
Now , it never ends , new heads , maybe loss more weight from car , but still have fun !
Big Fat ! good one , mate .
Thanks dude,
perhaps we can bribe Lisa with some muffins!!
Dak-A-Tak ·
Dude , you are going to live on the computer to-day , 👍
Good idea , then I can return your dish , from last batch .
vassy66T1 ·
Well Done!! Look forward to seeing the vid ... wished I could have made it. 🥲
DavoBuggy 1641 ·
Can't Believe I missed that! Awesome effort Dave.
FROSTY ·
Hey Dave I saw your run close up, your time slip has my 23sec run on it, I should have had the camera out....it looked unreal you dissapearing into the distance....
typethreeking ·
well done dave, great to be there to see you do it all motor when half the turbo ricers werent doing those time. Now to see if you can get down to the 9s were the blown car was??? get those new heads finished dude..
Dasdubber ·
Congratulations Dave, good to see you get into the 10's with your "old combo". Can't wait to see what you have install for the new engine!
Al
HS618 ·
Congratulations, Dave - it must feel great to achieve the milestone!! (.07 of a second costs a lot in ancilliaries, doesn't it?) again - Congrats!!
humpty ·
Awesome effort Dave.... Totally gassed about this one.... Gonna let the WA gang in on this one!!!!
oldskl60 ·
Awesome work Dave!! and great to hear you had a plentiful crew to celebrate with.
I am spewin' I missed it - I'll get a real job one day...
STIDUB ·
👍 sounds like steph & i have a disease 😂
top work, ill bring a 100mm hole saw down with the stubs if you really need to put the car on a diet lol
Sides ·
STIDUB wrote:ill bring a 100mm hole saw down with the stubs if you really need to put the car on a diet lol
Yup... and I've got a 35mm that's just itchin for some action... could go the whole "ventilated tunnel" look like one of the cars from down Portland !!!
Nah - on second thought DB - do it with power... that way we'll get to see more of your top level engine porn...
😉
STOCK ·
THATS FREAKIN AWSOME DAVE
HOWS THAT MILE AN HOUR DUDE WOW
GET SOME WEIGHT OUT & HOLY SHIT
AWSOME JOB
ARE YOU DOWN FOR COMPACT ATTACK
dangerous ·
STOCK wrote:THATS FREAKIN AWSOME DAVE
HOWS THAT MILE AN HOUR DUDE WOW
GET SOME WEIGHT OUT & HOLY SHIT
AWSOME JOB
ARE YOU DOWN FOR COMPACT ATTACK
Sorry Stock,
no Syd-eny for me this time.
Thinking about Gunnedah soon though.
Anyone else want to go out there in May or June?
No more 1/4 mile for me untll I get a UDL licence again.
Hardly worth it for one or two 1/4 mile events a year.🤪
FROSTY ·
Dave I'm in for Gunnadah, got the ok from my wife and will just have to check the date for a couple of days off work.
hellbugged ·
sounds like the camera man is a bit excited, followed closely by jealousy 😂
well deserved D.B ! credit to you and your tinkering!
vid here...
thanx Pagey
dangerous ·
Thanks Pete,(and Lisa!) that is awesome!!
Dak-A-Tak ·
Dam !! , I got up early to put link up , I've been beaten to it . Thanks Dave , Enjoy buddy .
I have know idea what drug that camera man was on ! ( 1/4 mile speed )
oldskl60 ·
Nice one Pete and Lisa.
Great to see Dave drive round the commie - he would have been hissed!
(Frosty, car looks great with the centrelines!)
hellbugged ·
Awww sorry Pete 🥲..........Got to be up early to beat the bush walkers, so i thought i'd sling it up for them to contemplate over as they travel serenly along the tracks.
Can't you imagine DBs head analyzing all those hundreds of minute details he saw on the vid that us mere mortals wouldn't even know to look for.......hope he didn't stub his toe! 😀
westi ·
cool vid,pete lisa.
i might be up for gunnadah.we will have to see how we go.
awsome stuff once again.big fan.good work dave.
so is a diet in order or what.i guess you have done the math's,.could be fun.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
MMM Love the commentary from the camera man LOL
colin ·
Fantastic effort Dave a 10 sec pass!.
Bask in the glory.
Cheers Col
trickysimon ·
Nice vid. Good old Alexisonfire 👍
drgouk ·
Hi Dave,
Any progress on the front beam? Do you think it would work alright in a street/strip car? After reading about your beam its got me thinking for one, for my balljonit pan.
David Gouk
dangerous ·
Hi David,
nothing new to report on my own beam but stanley has his verion in his car(link pin pan).
I still need to make some caliper brackets to adapt the later brakes that I currently have,
and of course weld the whole jigsaw together.
What about you...got your pauter stuff yet?!
matberry ·
Hey Dave, thought you'd be interected, saw on Samba in off road classifieds, off road arms with linkpin carriers and ball joint tube sizes......they must have seen your design concepts..
drgouk ·
dangerous wrote:Hi David,
nothing new to report on my own beam but stanley has his verion in his car(link pin pan).
I still need to make some caliper brackets to adapt the later brakes that I currently have,
and of course weld the whole jigsaw together.
What about you...got your pauter stuff yet?!
Hi Dave,
I will be interested once you get back into your beam.
I have my Pauter stuff bar the cylinders. I curently have the engine case. All the other stuff is in LA at a friends shop waiting there till next month to come down in his container.
I ended up buying a 86mm crank from Roger Crawford, It looks like a very nice piece.
I will let you know when I get further down the track.
congrats dave on the 10sec time card.. Haven't been online for a while so a bit behind on whats been happening...
STOCK ·
HEY DAVE
BRAD (WESTI) & I ARE TAKING THE JUNKA OUT THE 16TH
TO EASTERN CREEK FOR SOME TEST & TUNE IF ALL GOES WELL
WE'RE THINKING ABOUT GOING TO GUNEDAH
WHAT ABOUT YOU ARE YOU KEEN ?????
dangerous ·
Hi Stock
yes I will be at Gunnedah that week end, 15th and 16th in May.
STOCK ·
dangerous wrote:Hi Stock
yes I will be at Gunnedah that week end, 15th and 16th in May.
WELL PROVIDED ALL GOES WELL NEXT WEEKEND
WITH TESTING
WE'LL BE THERE , BE GOOD TO CATCH UP
dangerous ·
reub ·
Here you go Dave - on your way to a 10 sec pass.... Managed to track them down.
dangerous ·
THANKS REUB!!
westi ·
how come your putting more weight in.are you trying to run 11.00 again.😂
as always nicely made and mounted,but it does look like an atempt to slow you down to stop that extra fee for the licence.😂
dangerous ·
Once the alternator is in, that is it for added weight.
It can only get lighter from now on....
Just noticed the shift light is on in that last picture.
That is 8000 rpm only car length off the line(clutch slip).
Can hear the limiter in the vid too.(8400)
dangerous ·
Dak-A-Tak ·
Looks better all cleaned up , what wiring mate . Will you run a lite power source to excite it ? What amps , no more battery chargging ?
dangerous ·
Hey dude,
one big red wire to the battery + (on the starter),
one wire goes to a +12 volt source, (somewherewithin the system but not the battery best)
and the other wire to a green light to excite the whole deal.(power side of light from + on iginition switch.
No more charging up after day one of a two day event,(I hope).
It is a 40 amp alternator.
dangerous ·
All "up and running" for Gunnedah next week end:
Only glitch was the pilot light I got from super cheap is polarity sensitive
and so had to swap the connections to get the lght to come on.
I found this all before initial start up.(good old multi meter!)
Pulley ratio drives the alternator at maximum of 10,000 rpm when engine is at 8400 limit.
Most alternators I found specs for, did not like any more than 14000,
and with this ratio the light goes out at around 900 rpm.(engine idles at 2000 once all cylinders running).
dangerous ·
Here are some details of the wires.
I fitted a fuse to the primary large 12 volt wire that went from the stud/nut teminal on the back of the alternator
to the +ve on the starter,(which goes straight to the battery +ve).
That is the thick orange wire and fuse, which splices into a fat red one.(blue arrow in pic below).
dangerous ·
The yellow wire connects to the "L" on the alternator,
and the pilot light on the dashboard.(green arrow above).
The thin red wire connects to the "R" on the alternator,
and goes up to the front, where I found a 12 Volt source at the fuse box.
Tried to take a pic from inside the enine bat showig the back of the alternator:
dangerous ·
The pilot light gets a 12 volt supply from the ignition switch: red wire from the ignition switch.
(yellow wire is the one from the back from the back).
vassy66T1 ·
Good work dave.
Crazy collection of snakes in that motor now ...
It was a bit worrying that every youtube video that supposedly related to your was of crash compilations???
dangerous ·
vassy66T1 wrote:Good work dave.
Crazy collection of snakes in that motor now ...
It was a bit worrying that every youtube video that supposedly related to your was of crash compilations???
Yeah, not sure whay that was.
Probably related to the orginal title that was the numbers off my camera,
and the "tags" and "categories" it originally had when uploaded.(since edited).
colonel mustard ·
Dave, Tag your own name, or Dangerous dave butler muffin man ... or similar, then the related video's would be... maybe the dyno day vids.
Looking sweet mate! 🙂
andrewmurphy ·
hey Dave, the missus loves the engine in the wardrobe. i looks almost too good to install!
dangerous ·
Gunnedah was a fun event.
The track locals were very friendly,
and a special thanks must to Ross and Pauline Freestone for their hospitality,
and to Ross' mate, and regular crew guy, Gary for his help on the day.
The track surface was a challenge to take off from,
with no prep other than 'past rubber'.
But this is why i like to experiment with different conditions.
You work with the cards you are dealt.
In the end, a combination of
tyre pressure,
launch rpm,
wheely bar settings,
and driving style,
all culminated in times equal to my best.
dangerous ·
Runs:
7.285@94.66 (1.648 sixty with wheel spin).
6.931@96.96 (1.406 sixty was probably bogus given the wheel spin). best ever 1/8 mile time.
7.174@ 96.33 (1.585 sixty felt better)
7.035@97.09 good clean run using lower tyre pressure and dropped start rpm down from 7100 to 6000.(1.517 sixty)
Sunday:
7.310@94.56 alwys get the crap run out of the way first thing in the morning.
7.087@96.62 (1.523 sixty) that's better.(pumped the tyres up to 15psi and raised the wheely bars as high as they'd go)
7.001@97.53 (1.468 sixty) beet 500 cu in V8 falcon(just-hehe).(tyres at about 13.5)
6.949@97.32 (1.409 sixty) broke out on 7.05 dial in...best sixty foot since when I was supercharged.
(very close to my previous best 1/8 mile time when I ran the Ten, of 6.941)
dangerous ·
Oh yeah,
alternator worked fine and belt stayed on, and tight, all week end.
Battery voltage this morning was still above 13 volts, (cold morning)
when normally it would be below 12 volts after that many runs.
Does not seem to have cost much in power either.
rose ·
this is what Dave's been up to
vassy66T1 ·
Dusting the big block!!
I love it👍 Good work Dave
DavoBuggy 1641 ·
Awesome Dave, Looks like fun. I'm Spewing i couldn't go. had a wedding to go to which the missus had on the calender for months. Next time!
Cheers Dave!
Stanley ·
Hey dude what's going on. Things seem quiet
dangerous ·
All quiet here.
I have a broken engine mount to fix up,
but the new heads will be the next engine plan.
I still have many hours left to complete on them,
plus new pistons and all the valve train parts to buy.
So it may not be until next year.
dangerous ·
Sides ·
Nice !!!
Great to see an update DB.
👍
humpty ·
OMG Dave!..... Don't fall in whilst your finishing them off!!!!
Stanley ·
9 days til the 11th. Get them bolted on and out to Willowbank....😀
dragvw2180 ·
Wonderful work Dave , glad to see you were able to start back on your heads. What kind of increase in torque and HP do you expect from this combination as compared to what you have now, or are these for the bigger combo with BERTHA ? Mike
dangerous ·
Plan is for these to be fitted to the current engine.
I have some new JE pistons that I ordered from Summit,
so they will need notches.
Pushrods will also have to be made, and probably tubes as well.
I am aiming for mid tens,
so I am not sure how much more power i will need, perhaps another 25?
The comp ratio I want is in the 15 area,
and port cross sections and valves sizes are all to be reduced to try and increase the torque,
or atleast gie me a wider rev range of the same torque number.
dragvw2180 ·
I think I understand, higher compression and smaller ports will increase the speed of air mixture resulting in more torque. Are you going to use titanium vales on these heads? If so you may also be able to drop spring pressures and reap a few lost HP there also. Thanks Dave I always like following your posts and always learn something.
Mike
humpty ·
dragvw2180 wrote:... Thanks Dave I always like following your posts and always learn something.
Totally...
dangerous ·
Exhaust Ports are completed:
Here's what they started like:
Throating out the seat size:
Tilted the head slightly to favour the thick part of the casting/
The exhaust port was indexed at 9 degrees to match the valve guide angle.
dangerous ·
Just need to make some valve guides, cut the seats and do the chambers and it will be time for he flow bench:
For reference, here's what they looked like at the begining:
reub ·
nothing like some volksporn - I think even 14yo boys would hae sore wrists over this stuff... hahaha - wonder where I read that
dangerous ·
Made a tool with a 40 degree top cut angle, and radius for the seats.
I plunged down to a clean up point within the chamber, and then blended in the surrounding areas.
The inlet seat,(50 degrees) will be cut down onto this area,
and the 40 degree part will become the top cut for the seat.
The chamber around the inlet seat has a convex shape.
The area around the exhaust will have a concave shape
since it is still 45 degrees seat angle,
and I used the same tool to clean the chamber floor and seat.
It will eventually have a 35 degree top angle that will be blended into the surrounding chamber like the pictures.
dangerous ·
humpty ·
Dang those are some massive holes!!!!😁
dangerous ·
humpty wrote:Dang those are some massive holes!!!!😁
Actually, all the holes have been reduced in size when compared with my Pauter heads.
That being said, the valves are still 53.34 x 39.37mm.
dangerous ·
Once i have the valves,
I can cut the seats and flycut the heads for compression.
How far I actually go will depend on the piston crown, and how deep the notches can be.
Would like to get 15:1 comp this time.
bat69 ·
I love those big 'holes' although there appears to be not much meat between those intake ports. It wont suck in gaskets will it?
dangerous ·
No gaskets.
Loctite 515.
66deluxe ·
Had a nice look at these the other day. Very nice.
dangerous ·
Deck height with new pistons.
Head will get a .015" step.
Checking piston to valve clearance.
Or should i say piston IN valve clearance?
first piston notch steps:
Old 12" lathe chuck and sleeve an pin that I used to hold the piston for notching.
dangerous ·
Second cut, and tool to determine the point of minimum thickness.
dangerous ·
Modifying the old exhaust.
Once I cut off the old flanges,
the 1 7/8 pipe fits snuggly into the new stubs.
dangerous ·
dangerous ·
This is a shot after I roughed out another 5mm for compression.
Total flycut so far is 7.75mm.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
Looking good mate? Any estimates on HP increase and how much these will change your torque curve? Obviously top will be killer!!!
Stanley ·
nice work Davo....someones been busy
dangerous ·
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Looking good mate? Any estimates on HP increase and how much these will change your torque curve? Obviously top will be killer!!!
No Idea actually,
until I flow them, and sort out what compression I will have.
At this stage it looks like I will not even
acheive the same compression ratio that I have now.
The valve lift is .762 with soft springs,
and i have the valve notches as deep(nearly) as i dare.
As I suggested earlier,
the initial goal is to try for some 10.5's so this will equate to about 275 FW HP, or about 245 to the wheels
matberry ·
Nice work as usual Dave 👍
dangerous ·
Making room:
dangerous ·
For these:
dangerous ·
Had to change the filter bracket too...
20bkombi ·
dangerous wrote:For these:
So how thick will the largest diameter be (o/d), and would that be in the centre across the length?
dangerous ·
3/4" will be what they finish at.
Not sure yet whether they will be tapered from both ends to the middle
or just a short section each end.
This will depend on clearance within the push rod tube.
dangerous ·
STOCK ·
looking good dave
holy shit there's no way your bending thos push rods
matberry ·
When do we see the 'finished' pushrod Dave??
20bkombi ·
Looking good Dave, are they about the same height as the old runners?
humpty ·
The never ending battle to find more.................
dangerous ·
Runners will be the same length as the old ones.
Pushrods will be finished when I get my valves and springs.
This way I can see where they will actually run, and finalize the length.(all before hardening)
dangerous ·
Springs, retainers and collets arrived.
Also some cups to locate the bottom of the springs.
Retainers and collets are both Titanium.
Will have to machine out the spring seat and guide boss to fit them in.
dangerous ·
That is a CB dual spring from some 044s above for comparison.
Stanley ·
wholly crap they are some serious springs.
vassy66T1 ·
Looking good Dave.
Like the progress 👍
humpty ·
Stanley wrote:wholly crap they are some serious springs.
X2!!!
dangerous ·
Made this tool today to cut the spring seat and boss to size.
The outside diameter location:
The boss which i have stepped slightly so as to hold the spring tight at the base.
dangerous ·
Began off setting the pushrod tube holes.
Will cut the chamfer tomorrow.
Will have to devise a new method to fit and test the springs.
These things use as much tension just to get the collets in,
than what I had before at full lift!
dangerous ·
This is an old Big Block Chev valve that I lengthened to fit ,
just for my trial assemblies,
until my actual valves arrive.
STOCK ·
looks awesome dave
you are a freak
westi ·
why not titanium push rod's.hey.
now that sounds like a plan.
as alway's dave great work.
can't wait to see the finall set up .
dangerous ·
Titanium is not a good pushrod material.
It is more suited to springs.
Some years ago a customer used some in a 1500cc speedway application,
and they survived fine, but were flexing about 1/2".
It lost so much timing
that a change to chomoly required a duration reduction on a new cam
of like 20 degrees to restore lost HP at lower rpm.
3M actually make an aluminium matrix material that is a possible candidate,
but these springs may even test those $1000 niceties.
matberry ·
Wow Dave, who would think composite push rods could operate those HUGE valve springs. 👍
dangerous ·
matberry wrote:Wow Dave, who would thing composite push rods could operate those HUGE valve springs. 👍
Actually, I am not so sure that they would.
But if any alum push rod had a chance,
these would be the ones to try.
Hmmm... interesting... ceramic fiber turning up everywhere !!!
But, I'll be the dodo that asks... do stiffer pushrods actually reduce valve float ???
I would've thought being stiffer would give more lift (due to less bend), and sort of "sharpen" the shape of the cam at full lift over a pushrod that bends under pressure... which is almost the opposite of what their graph thing shows....
🤓
dangerous ·
Sides wrote:Hmmm... interesting... ceramic fiber turning up everywhere !!!
But, I'll be the dodo that asks... do stiffer pushrods actually reduce valve float ???
I would've thought being stiffer would give more lift (due to less bend), and sort of "sharpen" the shape of the cam at full lift over a pushrod that bends under pressure... which is almost the opposite of what their graph thing shows....
🤓
Hi Dave,
it all comes down to terminology really.
If we call it"loss of valvetrain control", then yes,
a stiffer pushrod has less chance of inducing vibration
into the springs.
If it were a simple matter of the spring to keep everything tracking the cam lobe,
then heavier components would require more tension to do the job.
But there are so many other influences that make valvetrain control a constant battle.
Some times everything from a cam lobe profile, to a pushrod that is not quite right in its design,
can change things from one engine to another, even when all else is equal.
dangerous ·
New valve guides for the inlet.
This is the second set.
The first set i made were a little short (in hind-sight).
Pushrods all drilled and roughed out:
dangerous ·
Pushrod peepers.
New tube seal plates.
Made from 7075:
These new tubes are made from buth tube, (32mm) and solid that is machined to size,(27mm)
dangerous ·
Manifolds and ram tube adapters finished.
Stanley ·
Lookin' good Davo.....how long till it makes some noise?
nbturbo ·
Dave, are you using anything special for seals on the pushrod tubes,or stretching OG ones to fit?
dangerous ·
German seals.
Wasserboxer on the big end and type 1 on the small end,
although the type 1 will stretch over the large end no probs.
dangerous ·
Stanley wrote:Lookin' good Davo.....how long till it makes some noise?
Still waiting for valves,
probably May before I get it done.🥲
20bkombi ·
Wow Dave, those poshrod tube 'plates' look awesome man.
dangerous ·
VolksVair wrote:Decided to grab some valve springs off the shelf this morning to compare vw to bigblock chev springs, then looked at your pic of your monster springs & collet. then realised that I got excited at your pic that is magnified which made me originaly think that the valve springs you were going to use were the biggest springs I had ever seen in any engine. hence my previous replys, It is a great close up pic . Just one question in regards to the pushrods you are machining up, is there going to be enough room in the pushrod tubes for the oil to return back to the crankcase quick enough cheers and hope you every success with this beast of a motor you are building, Frank
Hi Frank,
these springs are far from the largest you can get,
but are still over 1000lbs of pressure at full lift and probably 400 on the seat once they are installed.
The recommended installed heaight is 2.1",
but it looks like my installed height will be closer to 2.0"
My old springs where actually larger in diameter,(1.56" as opposed to these 1.50" ones)
but they only had 260 seat and 620 at full lift,(installed .030" from bind).
These new springs are 800lbs per inch spring rate.
I have enlarged the push rod tubes and I also restrict the flow through the pushrods.
I also I do not vent the rocker covers,
so once the covers are full, the oil can go nowhere else except back down the pushrod tube.
dangerous ·
Sides wrote:I would've thought being stiffer would give more lift (due to less bend), and sort of "sharpen" the shape of the cam at full lift over a pushrod that bends under pressure... which is almost the opposite of what their graph thing shows....
🤓
I cant comment on their graph, but there may be something suspect going on there!
The way I see it though,
is stiffer components will allow the lifter to follow its intended path,(track the lobe)
so that the "top of the graph" can be working as designed.
The other part about those types of graphs
is that if weird stuff is going on with valve train stability,
then the valve or lifter can "toss" at full lift and add more lift, or a spike in the graph.
Some classes of racing that have limits in lift or parts,(like Nascar and F-Vee)
can use this to advantage,
but more often than not it requires much maintenence and more often than not,
a DNF.
dangerous ·
dangerous wrote:Will have to devise a new method to fit and test the springs.
These things use as much tension just to get the collets in,
than what I had before at full lift!
This Arbor press should do the job:
Made up this angle plate:
Funny that it is rated at 3 ton, (6600lbs),
yet my right arm struggles to get to coil bind,(prob 1200?).
It will do the intended task no worries though,
without wearing out my milling machine quill.
(which is what I used previously).
Sides ·
Awesome stuff DB, and thanks for answerin my dodo questions !!!
😉
I think I understand now... I'd been thinking more about the springs and how they effect flex in the pushrods, and not really considered the momentum of them and the rockers moving. When you do consider that then yeah - becomes sort of obvious that heavier pushrods requires heavier springs, requiring heavier pushrods again due to more flex, requires heavier springs to overcome the extra momentum, and so-on and so-on.
Cool solution too with the press, and the "made up this" understatement...
😎
mactaylor ·
F$%k dave that is gunna be some massive pounds on the "nose". is it a roller cam?
dangerous ·
Hi Mac,
yes it is a roller camshaft.
Even a steel,(instead of cast iron) flat tappet,(like i used when it was supercharged) wears out lifters above 500lbs.
I dont know about these springs,
but my old ones, with roller lifters turns over easer than the flat tappet combo with 2/3 the tension.
VolksVair ·
Thanks for the informative reply Dave, I enjoy the machine work you get up to & the trouble you go to with your postings on here, my comment about oil return to the crankcase stems from an incident years back where I put together a pretty sick 455 Oldsmobile bigblock and fitted a high volume oil pump, did a lot of machine work to those heads but never gave the oil return a second thought, end result, during some sustained high rpm, 6 ltrs of engine oil in the rocker covers and nothing in the sump, BANG!! My son & I were at the SummerNats a wee bit back and whilst in the dyno cell, there was a street car that was pushing 700hp & climbing, when the oil buildup in one of the rocker covers actually hydraulicked stretching the rocker cover studs and spewing oil over the headers, I had never seen that before, my son actually filmed it. just be carefull of the back presure that can be created in unvented rocker covers. cheers Frank
dangerous ·
Flow Testing.
dangerous ·
Flows 322cfm at .850".
ian.mezz ·
dangerous wrote:Flows 322cfm at .850".
is that good???😊
do you think the valve tops will be mushroomd over time.
dangerous ·
ian.mezz wrote:
dangerous wrote:Flows 322cfm at .850".
is that good???😊
do you think the valve tops will be mushroomd over time.
It will do.
It is about 20cfm better than my current heads.
Hopefully that means an extra 20hp.
Tips are hardened so will be fine.
matberry ·
Awesome work Dave. Gotta be happy with that.
dangerous ·
ian.mezz wrote:do you think the valve tops will be mushroomd over time.
If you mean the head of the valve,
no.
They seem to handle the seat pressure no problems.
In fact the only time you get ANY mushrooming
is when the valve is not controlled well enough buy the spring.
...like when rose goes through the 1/4 mile in 3rd gear!
ian.mezz ·
dangerous wrote:
ian.mezz wrote:do you think the valve tops will be mushroomd over time.
If you mean the head of the valve,
no.
They seem to handle the seat pressure no problems.
In fact the only time you get ANY mushrooming
is when the valve is not controlled well enough buy the spring.
...like when rose goes through the 1/4 mile in 3rd gear!
😂🤪😂
hellbugged ·
your flow bench D.B?
dangerous ·
I have owned a share in it with crankshaft engineering for 15 years.
hellbugged ·
😵 sweet stuff
STIDUB ·
ahem, when did the closing in with walls/doors happen? - i was confused where you were for a moment there
Sides ·
STIDUB wrote:ahem, when did the closing in with walls/doors happen? - i was confused where you were for a moment there
Geez STIDUB... you are a bit behind on things !!!
20 hp more hey DB... can't wait to see and hear what THAT's like on song...
😎
matberry ·
dangerous wrote:I have owned a share in it with crankshaft engineering for 15 years.
Ha ha ha Craig half offered to me for sale a few months ago....I reminded him to call you Dave...😂😂😂 I new you would be needing it soon 👍
dangerous ·
dangerous wrote:For these:
One down, 7 to go...
hellbugged ·
yeah those doors threw me off too 🙄
....those push rods are absolute NUTS ya crazy kid!
nbturbo ·
For a second there I thought you were holding an IRS drive shaft you was about to respline.Awesome work again.
dangerous ·
These are 19mm in the middle and taper down to 12.7 at each end
before a 10 degree chamfer down to the tip.
Once the others are done they will be sent down to Rene' at Adelaide heat treatment for hardening.
modnrod ·
I'm a definite fan, and really appreciate the photo log of your work.
Are you aware of the SB2.2 Cup builders and their methods of controlling valve float at high (over 9G) RPM? They've been using CF and ally (dunno what sort) "sandwich construction" pushrods to reduce flex, but more importantly have also used "lifter springs" in conjunction with extreme lightweight valvetrain parts to reduce valvespring weight and rates and lowering the required tension on the collets/retainers. They're able to manage float at up to 10G (for longer than the 6secs needed by your average SB altered)👍
Thanks for your updates Dave.
dangerous ·
I was not aware that carbon fibre was used as a composite with aluminium,
unless you mean the 3M pushrod mentiond on the last page.
Yes, the spring on the lifter is called a "rev kit".
I have never seen it used on a flat tappet, are the SB2.2 flat tappet classes like Nascar?
The smaller diameter of the rev kit spring can induce its own harmonics earlier into the RPM range,
but these days the simulation programs and spintron testing can select a spring perfect for the job.
We have tried a rev kit in the past, but the spring interfered with the pushrods, due to the VW's angle, and a stronger head made it obselete.
We eventually got it to work well, using an offset isky roller lifter, but then went to the pauter head that could hold the decent springs.
This may be again in my future though, and the reason for making my pushrod plates from 7075 material.😉
These new heads have rockers that straighten up the pushrod agle, so it will fit much better!
modnrod ·
Can't find the 3M pushrods, but they machine the centre out of solid CF rods, then interference fit high grade alloy tubes inside the length.
The SB2.2 is Nascar stuff, yep, the DRCE stuff uses the "spring kit" too, but you already have too, so I'm a few years too late! 😂
dangerous ·
Got the pushrods back from hardening, so polished the outside and fitted the tips.
Yellow is 3/4"
Red is 1/2"
(always make 2 spares)
Weight is 350 grams!
dangerous ·
Set up the springs:
Needed to cut out a recess in my angle plate to clear the valves at full travel.(check for bind).
dangerous ·
Seat pressure is 350, nose pressure is 900.
Lift is .710 inlet and .670 exhaust
Here is the exhaust port:
dangerous ·
RISKY4LIFE ·
OMG way sexy stuff LMAO 👍
btw what is AUTER?
vassy66T1 ·
Mmmmm mmmmmm mmmmmm 👍
66deluxe ·
RISKY4LIFE wrote:OMG way sexy stuff LMAO 👍
btw what is AUTER?
That would be Pauter.
reub ·
Volksporn as always Dave.
dangerous ·
matberry ·
Awesome Dave, when do you fire her up?
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
It's too shiny and showy mate!! Need to make the alloy dull off a bit lol
Can't wait to hear it in anger!!
Stanley ·
Top stuff but with all that shiny new gear you could have lashed out and got some new tennis balls...😀
matberry ·
So I heard that a smell of Methonol was in the air around Reedy Creek on the weekend...........how did it go??????
dangerous ·
Yeah runs sweet, just have to book some dyno time now.
reub ·
👍
tassupervee ·
I never tire of looking at you junk and what you do with/to it Dave!
Dont let this thread die!!
Cheers
E
matberry ·
dangerous wrote:Yeah runs sweet, just have to book some dyno time now.
COOL
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
nice one Dangerous!! Reckon dyno day is still looking good?
Sides ·
Awesome stuff DB !!!
👍
DavoBuggy 1641 ·
Very nice!
dangerous ·
Engine survived the dyno, but a bit low on power.
The gauges said it was still rich,(.79lamda) but lost power when leaned off.
Best of 222.1hp@7600.
Pushrods did the job as did the 900lbs springs.
More improvements to come.
More camshaft duration,(currently 264 degree),
better ignition(thinking MSD 8-plus)
Aux venturis to adapt to the injection for better atomisation:
dragvw2180 ·
Dave you are always on the edge and I'm damn glad of it. Have you ever thought about preheating your fuel so that it is on the edge of going from a liquid to a gas ? Mike McCarthy
Sides ·
So adapting the aux vents in... you mean mounting little injectors inside them somehow ???
Would they be an always running sort of thing, or extra injectors somehow rigged (fuel pressure ?) to only operate lower in the revs ???
Also that MSD 8 Plus... 315-345 mJ... holy crap batman that's a lot of spark !!!
🤘
dangerous ·
A busy Sunday.
No more steam left, so finish it tomorrow.
Dave,
the Aux venturi's are located in small slots cut into the port wall,
and held in by a grub screw,
then the constant flow nozzle squirts into the other end,
where the carb normally draws from the main jet well.
Hi Mike,
in theory the head temp should be enough to sort out the "turn to vapour",
but methanol can be a pain,
but any theory is worth trying if this gets ugly!
vassy66T1 ·
I like the aux venturis.
Have you got your new cam yet?
Stanley ·
looks like you've shortened the tubes as well....nice work.
Off to the dyno again?
dangerous ·
Cam will be about six weeks,
unless I pull my finger out and make my own again.(joy).
Ignition will be about 4 weeks, then dyno before cam change.
westi ·
Hey Dave.
Do you think maybe the methanol may be taking up to much volume if it is placed all the way up the top. There fore maybe giving you less room for the air to occupy for a good a/ f ratio.
What do you reakon.
westi ·
I don't think fuel is the problem .I think it's the fuel taking up the room of the air.there for maybe some bigger manifolds .
Just througing it out there.
Sides ·
Looks like a pretty tidy setup DB - and thanks for the explanation.
Been reading up on the MSD 8 Plus a bit... good thing you fitted that alternator a while back hey !!!
👍
dangerous ·
Sides wrote:Looks like a pretty tidy setup DB - and thanks for the explanation.
Been reading up on the MSD 8 Plus a bit... good thing you fitted that alternator a while back hey !!!
👍
Yep it sure will need the alternator!😂
dangerous ·
westi wrote:Hey Dave.
Do you think maybe the methanol may be taking up to much volume if it is placed all the way up the top. There fore maybe giving you less room for the air to occupy for a good a/ f ratio.
What do you reakon.
Yes good point Brad,
this is a problem with methanol period.
Not sure it will make much difference in 'space' whether it is injected either top or bottom,
unless it is injected direct into the chamber like the new Comodore engine.
The manifolds DO have a fair bit of cross section,
but there is always room to improve.
My theory with the better atomisation is just something I want to try,
and doubt very much it is the total answer, hence why I have other changes also in the works,
but if the fuel IS atomised better,
it will allow me to use less fuel per HP and thus more space for said air.
My primary reason for the top fuel entry is
to fatten up the power curve on the gear change.
I saw this occur last time I tried the nozzles up high,
but I am hoping this to be a better way to acheive the same result.
The top end normally benefits to if i can generate some controlled stand off.(it is my friend...or not?)
Craig Torrens ·
dangerous wrote:Engine survived the dyno, but a bit low on power.
maybe the 100,000lb spings and the telegraph pole pushrods has taken some power ??!😂😊😘
dangerous ·
no doubt!
dangerous ·
westi ·
your f--kin nut's dude.
i love it.
r u going to ofset chuck and finish of the top's or r you trying something different for max lift.lol🤪
whathaveidone ·
pffffff thats nothing!!!! I make my own cams all the time!!!!!!🤪🤪🤪
Seroiusly though, What you do is awesome. Is there any tool you dont have?????? Cant wait to see it run!!
Sides ·
Wow... just... wow...
😵💫
20bkombi ·
Wow... love your work man!!
How much thicker were you able to make the shaft?
FROSTY ·
How long..... did that take man??? That was a massive lump of metal to machine!!!!
