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1776 hard to start( Help)

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jaksc Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#587872
Well i've spent the day replacing a generator with an alternator on my 1776 with twin kadrons. New fuel pump new rod new alt stand and backing plates. Drove it round the block, Now she runs like a pig. It sounds like it missing or something and is blowing slight black smoke. The manifolds are also very cold (is that unusual). The only thing i disturbed were the plug leads on 1+2, the fuel hoses and a couple wires on the altenator. I NEED SOME HELP PLEASE.
Aaron:cry:cry

[ Edited on 28-4-2007 by jaksc ]

[ Edited on 28-4-2007 by jaksc ]

bushed Wolfsburg Elder

3,541 posts · joined Dec 2006 ·

#587929
did the rod lengths match?? btw.

checked 1 and 2 not incorrect ??

was it 12 volt b4 adding the alt. if not 6v coil needs upped to 12v!

changing fuel pump could mean rubber hose remnants in line to carbie needle valve ?
check & cln fuel filter

did u check timing ?u may have slightly moved dizzie with all them operations goin on
want any vw bits old but like me, Made in Germany!!!

jaksc Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#587964
Rod length different to the one that came out
I have re-checked 1+2 again
It was 12volt generator before it came out
I will put a new fuel filter on today and check the timing.
I didn't disturb that much so i am at a loss to know what it is. Try again today! I disturbed one of the carbies slightly if it was sucking air would that have an affect.
Aaron

jo_tas Custom Title Time!

1,547 posts · joined Aug 2004 ·

#587981
You'd be surprised what you can accidently bump or knock without even knowing when working on a veedub.. so check EVERYTHING!

bushed Wolfsburg Elder

3,541 posts · joined Dec 2006 ·

#587994
esp fuel supply

and timing
want any vw bits old but like me, Made in Germany!!!

sinecure Want another... :(

1,031 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#588042
Black smoke generally indicates rich fuel mixture, ditto cold manifolds, so I doubt extra air in the mix would be the culprit. Maybe fuel pressure too high? Or perhaps the old fuel lines were clogged and the carbs were set/tuned to suit this, the new lines have maybe freed up the flow a bit.

Also possible plug or lead failure under load.

All serious "maybe's" of course, but worth checking.
A POSSE AD ESSE.

I live in my own little world, but it's okay, they know me here.

jaksc Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#588052
Spent the day trying to work out what i had done wrong. Took the new pump off and double checked the stroke. I was out by .1mm. So i put a another gasket to pack it up and got it just right at 4mm. I have also came down to the conclusion that it is slightly flooding for some reason. There seems to be plenty of pressure from the new pump. So it is off to the mechanics tommorrow as i need the car. I think it is flooding but still i am only guessing.
Aaron

lugnuts Custom Title Time!

1,070 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#588093
Fuel pressure should be 1.5-2lbs according to Mr.Kadron,adjust with gaskets to match.
Dont listen to what they say,just watch what they do.Oh yeah ive NEVER finished anything ive started.:o

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE All people have the right to stupidity but some abuse the pr

2,534 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#588138
Got some crap caught under a needle and seat??
ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE

Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!

jaksc Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#588864
Looks like the new pump is putting out too much pressure and flooding the carbs. Maybe another new pump??? What are my options.
Aaron

bushed Wolfsburg Elder

3,541 posts · joined Dec 2006 ·

#588930
just a stab hre...
u said rod lengths were different
why?
is the pump a diff brand?
want any vw bits old but like me, Made in Germany!!!

jaksc Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#589109
Tested the pressure today and it was way to high and was flooding the carbs. Bought another new pump(different brand again) and it solved the problem. What is the difference between pumps???. Do i need to quote a fuel pressure when buying one???.
Aaron

ctefeh Wolfsburg Wizard

479 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·

#589124
Jaksc,
A lot depends on what your new fuel pump rod measured, the pumps pivot pin location and actuating arm manufacturing tolerances and how many gaskets you wind up using. A whole lot. Also there's where they are made can have an influence. For arguments sake a mexi Bocar might put out 3.5 psi max whereas a brazil brosol could do 4.5, and you need to cut down the rod or stack gaskets to lower the psi. I had to cut my rod to 100mm (was 101.1mm as supplied) and use 1 more gasket to stop my carb flooding. FYI I swapped a gennie pump and rod for an alternatior pump and rod.


Ctefeh

[ Edited on 3/5/2007 by ctefeh ]

jaksc Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#590017
Ctefeh
did you come up with the rod length and gaskets through trial and error or is there a formula to use to get the exact fuel pressure you want.
Aaron

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#590036
VW had two sizes for the rod length.:thumb
If you look at the arm within the pump (turn the pump upside down and look in it!) you will notice one sits lower than the other. The short rod length matches the pump which has the arm level with the base of the pump housing, the long rod for the pump where the arm sits about 5 to 10mm in.


ctefeh Wolfsburg Wizard

479 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·

#590058
Jaksc,
A generator rod is supposed to be 108mm, and an alternator rod is supposed to be 100mm. I knew I had an alt pump and so needed a 100mm rod to start. After fitting up and measuring stroke etc I figured on 1 gasket but wound up using 2. I have a lathe so rod trimming isn't a problem.
Measured it with a psi gauge after sorting needle & seat problems (I wound up using the original needle & seat as the new one wouldn't shut off properly).

For a glazed-eye read of pumps/rods/alt/gens try this....

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=50478

Ctefeh

[ Edited on 7/5/2007 by ctefeh ]

[ Edited on 7/5/2007 by ctefeh ]

[ Edited on 7/5/2007 by ctefeh ]

jaksc Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#590516
That thread was excellent. Wish i had of known all that before i started. Thanks Aaron

ctefeh Wolfsburg Wizard

479 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·

#590552
Jaksc,
The Kads being pressure sensistive doesn't help much as it's another spanner in the works to deal with. Have you thought about a Holley adjustable low pressure regulator?

Bit spendy but it would be a definite fix and you can transfer it between cars or on-sell if you wish.


Regards
Ctefeh

sinecure Want another... :(

1,031 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#590570
ctefeh wrote:Jaksc,
The Kads being pressure sensistive doesn't help much as it's another spanner in the works to deal with. Have you thought about a Holley adjustable low pressure regulator?

Bit spendy but it would be a definite fix and you can transfer it between cars or on-sell if you wish.


Regards
Ctefeh
Agreed, when I set up twin Mikunis on my old Dat16, the only thing that solved the pressure mismatch was a Holley regulator.
A POSSE AD ESSE.

I live in my own little world, but it's okay, they know me here.

jaksc Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#591005
Seem to have fixed the problem with another new fuel pump. Will look in to the pressure regulator also as a safeguard. Thanks heaps. There is more to this than i first thought.
Aaron