Strut beetle front end vibes......

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 10 May 2003, 9:54 pm

#46033

Educated gentlemen,

My 73 S bug (3 bolt struts) has a very annoying vibration in the steering that is real bad between 70 and 80 kmh, then gets better but is still noticable up to 110kmh.

I have second hand empi 8 spokes, with second hand 195/60/15's on the front.

I have replaced the following already;
Ball joints
Discs (were warped and thin anyway)
Strut inserts
Steering Damper
Brake pads

I have had a reputable VW mechanic look at the front end up on a hoist, and he checked all the tie rod ends, and said they were fine. The previous owner replaced the control arm bushes.

I have had the wheels balanced off the car, and the wheel alignment is set at 1.5mm toe in and 0 camber angle.

I know that the sway bar bushes need replacing, and that is probably next on the list.

The steering box has very little play at straight ahead, but about an inch and a quarter at lock.

Any suggestions about what to do next ?

Balance the wheels on the car ?

Anybody else have this problem ?

Any one cured this problem ? What did you do ?

Look forward to ALL your comments 🙂

Thanks once again ladies and gents.:kiss

vwmachine Casual Dubber

26 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 10 May 2003, 10:35 pm

#46052

Most super-bugs wobble with larger than std wheels unless all bushes are replaced with poly ones, strut brace to stop the body flex and good tyres.:puke

duncombemu Seriously Crusin Dubber

199 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 11 May 2003, 12:17 am

#46068

Have a look at the American web site:
http://www.superbeetlesonly.com[/url]
A very informative site.
Regards,
Mark:thumb

Don't ever let anyone tell you, "It can't be done."

BiX Veteran Volks Folk

2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 11 May 2003, 9:02 am

#46113

i had similar problems with both my supers. Ended up new inserts , bushes, and any aballjoints that needed doing and its now perfect.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 May 2003, 9:03 am

#46114

Weld on a Torsion bar bulk head then you can have some real enjoyment with a good handling car.

sounds like wheel balance to me... but you say thats been done.

Are the wheel bearings noisey or loose ???

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 11 May 2003, 11:15 am

#46130

Sorry guys, but I dont buy the theory that wider than standard tyres cause it. Its bullshit - the tyres are only 30mm wider than stock, so thats only another 15mm offset load on the suspension. Which will cause suspect components to show up quicker I agree.

The shudder was just as bad with standard rims and tyres 🙂

Wheel bearings are fine - re packed them yesterday.

Was just curious if it happened to be one component more often than another.

duncombemu Seriously Crusin Dubber

199 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 11 May 2003, 12:45 pm

#46141

I agree with Dave, "weld a framehead to suit a Torsion bar ", with disc brakes and now you have a great handling car. I've just done that and there's no comparison.
But I suppose there must be an answer, without being 'that' radical. Keep the 'ideas' comming.
Regards,
Mark:thumb

Don't ever let anyone tell you, "It can't be done."

toplessbug Fahrvergnugen

879 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 May 2003, 6:15 pm

#46221

we had the same trouble and it was cured completly by replacing all the rubbers with poly bushes do them all -- the inners and both sway bar lots and it will be great be shure to get a good alignment when you have finished and check the lower ball joints carefully:thumb

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 May 2003, 6:28 pm

#46225

yeah
it is not the wheels

Blue 1 and 2 both ran 6" 195's up front and steady as a rock.

Years ago Blue suffered badly with the "shimmies" and the main culprit was the steering box.
I reckon the best answer would be replacing all bushes in one hit.
Also check the steering universal. I ahve had BIG trouble with them.
I have also read about them being sensitive to tyre rotation. I would definetley get them balanced on the car if that is a last resort.

How old is the box?
You got a spare you could try?
What about the pittman arm on the other side?

DEFINETLEY read the tech articles in www.superbeetlesonly.com
Post there - as you do. James and Ryan are VERY informative when it comes to supers

TORSION BARS :puke heh heh heh (joke to everyone EXCEPT you know who :kiss)

Futue te ipsum!!!

Jeza Officially Full-On Dubber

353 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 11 May 2003, 7:28 pm

#46254

Balance the wheels on the car.

I'm not sure if one of the above links was to this post on superbeetles.com, but one of the guys there spun his wheels up with the car on jack stands and just altered where they sat on the hub each time until the car no longer vibrated with the wheels at speed. (he'd had his wheels balanced off the car and was still having trouble before this).

I fluked it one day by bolting up my wheels a different way and suddenly realised my shimmy had gone. My wheels had been balanced off the car, but supers are really prone to front wheel balance. Once this is done put a paint mark on the hub and one on the wheel or a mark on the hub where the valve needs to line up.

This is what I'd be looking at especially since you mention you've checked every thing else.

Oh a few more things to check, since you mention 2nd hand tyre and wheels- make sure your wheels are straight, a 4WD freind of mine reckoned those wheel balance machines won't show if your wheel is bent, so check this and make sure your tyres don't have any major bruises etc on them, this can also effect the balance.

Jeremy

......random gibberish for today.......

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 May 2003, 9:57 pm

#46334

Hi

I dont buy the bigger wheel therory either, since I fixed my car with poly bushes and an adjustable caster front sway bar I have used 15x7 wheels, 16x7 & 17x8 with no shudder. In the old days my car was very easliy upset by a poor wheel balance.

I think we all consider Porsches a performance beetle, well why dont they still use a beam front end? :bounce

1302Steve

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 12 May 2003, 8:09 am

#46416

They carnt afford to build a torsion bar anymore...

Barry thats discusting :puke:puke:puke

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 12 May 2003, 10:08 am

#46433

I suppose I should take out the IRS and put a swing axle in the rear too eh ?

Sorry to get cranky guys, but I completely disagree with your ideas about torsion bar front ends handling better.

I've owned a 67 with 1800 type 4 in it, went pretty well, but the 73 handles a level above, and thats even without the front end properly sorted. Turns in sharper, holds its line better and is nowhere near as tail happy (obviously, this is the IRS at work).

Sure torsion bar front ends are easier to maintain, stronger and last longer, less sensitive to wear and easier to understand. But there is no where near as much scope for set up as struts, and they weight just a tad more I believe....

Anyways, enough of the 'weld a tosion bar to it'. I know you are only joking, but its monday morning and I'm cranky so leave me alone 🙂

Pitman arm seemed fine - there was no real play in it. I'm pretty sure all the play in the steering is in the box - but I dont know the condition of the uni joints, so I will have to check them too.

Looks like next on the list is nolathane sway bar bushes and an on car balance.

Thanks for all your input, constructive and otherwise 🙂

Please excuse my rant :jesus