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Need help on Cam size for a 2387cc Type 1

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OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#607497
Hi all i am looking for some advise on Cams for my upcoming 2387 engine build.
I am currently looking at a Engle 110 which is 430 lift and 284 deg duration but am unsure as to whether this is what i really want ??
The rest of the build is as follows
CB High top case
94mm B piston set
8.5 - 1 comp ratio
CB 044 cnc round port heads 40 x 35.5
86mm stroke
1.1 - 1 rockers
44mm IDF's
Now the thing is that i want good power from 1000/ 1200 rpm all the way to 6000rpm but not really hit a brick wall at 6000rpm if you know what i mean.
I'mm thinking that at least if it isn,t quite right at least i can retro fit ratio rockers later for a bit more top end .
So what do you think??

Thanks Andrew

[ Edited on 19-8-07 by A Westwood ]
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#607502
plenty of info here for you....

http://www.actionimport.com/Tech_Files/cam_information.htm

...but for a decent desription with references to the engles....

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?name=Camshaft%20only&cPath=2773

engles site is here...

http://englecams.com/catalog/old_catalog.php

for me, i'd go to rockers and run a GB 309 😉 or even a 310 to be gentler on the valve train

or a GB 297 or GB 300 without the rockers

you probably know anyway, but when you pick up a non ratio rocker cam and one designed for higher ratios, side by side, the lobe is noticably different......i'd be choosing which rockers and selecting the cam from there rather than retrofitting some rockers to correct something you could have in the first place

i've got a 300 and all the stuff to go to solid rocker shafts ( swivel feet, molly studs) if you go that way

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#607542
Excellent advice Daimo.
I like W120 in Engle or V26 with Rockers.(NOT VZ25!!)
If you get the Engle brand you may get a larger base circle cam and therefore less chance of going through the hard layer of the lobe.
But with 86mm crank you may have to clearance some crank cheek to clear the lobe.

What carbs and manifolds with those heads Andrew?
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#607545
44mm Idf's with around a 36 -38 venturiy and CB's matched cnc round port manifolds
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

johny rotten Officially Full-On Dubber

366 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#607547
Engle 120

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#607555
The 110 will cause you to "hit a brick wall" in the rev range....having driven a 2110 with 110 in it vs a 2110 with K8 in it, the difference was significant above 5000rpm.
www.dasrestoparts.com.au

BiX Veteran Volks Folk

2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#607588
Iam running the engle 120 with 1.25:1 ratio rockers in a 2L motor. Its pretty nice, doesn't come on till after 3200 rpm and then revs all the way out to +6000 rpm. Not sure where it drops of. Thats in a 1915 taken out to 2000cc, wedge ports, 48ida's. Thats being said it will still pull smothly from 1500rpm, in the rain at 3000rpm is jsut sort of steps side ways in 1,2nd.

The 120 with the smaller heads, carbies may give you alittle more bottom end, but not sure what will restrict that motor at the upper end, eg carb's, cam, intake? maybe dave or one of the smart ppl would have a better idea. I am pretty sure my cam is the limiting factor in my motor (already looking at what bigger cam to put in when its gets a rebuild at the end of 08 or early 09...😎)
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!

cram Officially Full-On Dubber

368 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#607689
Dasdubber wrote:The 110 will cause you to "hit a brick wall" in the rev range....having driven a 2110 with 110 in it vs a 2110 with K8 in it, the difference was significant above 5000rpm.
Das, from what I understand, the 2110 with 110 also had stock gaskets under the inlet manifolds which would have restricted airflow (and RPM) a fair bit, not to mention the ghia also has bigger carbs, valves etc so may not have been an entirely fair comparison!

The 110 is a relatively mild cam and is good for ~ 6000 RPM no worries - which is what its designed for. Great for a well behaved daily driver!

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#607747
After some advise from Dave Butler today (thankyou Dave for your time and advise) i have decided to upgrade my heads to the CB 044 Magnum Plus heads (oval ports ) with 44 x 37.5 valves and at this stage will more than likely run the Engle W120 cam.
But i am still open to ideas but the bigger heads are a definet.

Andrew
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#607811
Das, from what I understand, the 2110 with 110 also had stock gaskets under the inlet manifolds which would have restricted airflow (and RPM) a fair bit, not to mention the ghia also has bigger carbs, valves etc so may not have been an entirely fair comparison!

The 110 is a relatively mild cam and is good for ~ 6000 RPM no worries - which is what its designed for. Great for a well behaved daily driver!
This is true re. the variables which are near impossible to standardise unless you do a back to back runs on the same engine changing the cam only. Obviously the heads were different as well, chamber shape, rockers, valve springs and pressure etc etc etc.

Although I acknowledge the somewhat unfair comparison (taking into account the ghia is heavier as well), I'd still be happy to put my opinion/word on the significant difference in performance above 5000rpm with the k8 vs 110. Not meaning to be defensive 😉 (its always hard to write a reply like this without it sounding the wrong way - much easier in person!). Not that I am suggesting a K8, just throwing my few cents worth out there!

Good to see Dave has helped again - I certainly have appreciated his advice!
www.dasrestoparts.com.au

cram Officially Full-On Dubber

368 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#607870
Its all good das! I actually think the k8 with 1.4's would be a bit better than the 110 at the end of the day (more duration, more lift, less stress). From what I understand, the 110, 120 grinds etc are from the days before ratio rockers, whereas the k-series gets the same effect (if not more) with a gentler grind and ratio rockers.

bond Veteran Volks Folk

2,456 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#607906
what if you were to start with a engle fk87? or 89?

if you didnt get what you want down low could you not add 1.4 rockers and rev out over 7k?!

nick

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#607907
Nick i'mm prbabley not going to go past 6000rpm very often but I just didn't want it hitting a wall up at the high end and still have good power from idle which is important offroad
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

bond Veteran Volks Folk

2,456 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#607908
oh - sorry dude - i kept thinking you were going to make it a drag car! lol

my bad

nick

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#607994
Sure you don't want to reconsider the type IV andrew? hehehe....I'm sure shoptalkforums will have you back if you be nice! 😉

Just kidding 😁
www.dasrestoparts.com.au

rufbug Seriously Crusin Dubber

127 posts · joined May 2003 ·

#608134
fk 45 with 1.25 is what i use and with 44's it pulls like a train down low.

paul

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#608136
Thats funny here i am discussing a FK44 with AlanU @ Shoptalk and someone here is suggesting the very similar FK45 but paul do you think that the 45 might have a little to long duration ??
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#608191
The FK4- series cams are fast lift-rate profiles for ratio rocker use.
The 45 is up there in duration and will steal power from low rpm.
FK44 looks good in 050 number but is unknown to me.
You may have read that they can be an issue with lifter bores also due to their ramp .
You may like to run one WITHOUT ratio rockers
but it will be a comprimise compared to one designed for 1.1's.
That FK44 may suit you if you plan to upgrade to rockers later for more rpm up high.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

noslug Casual Dubber

31 posts · joined Jun 2006 ·

#608196
I would go CB2242 ? (fk8 equivalent) 1.4:1 rockers or FK20 1.25:1 rockers and a bit more compression (9 - 9.5:1).

I have a 2276 with CB K8 cam, 9.5:1, IDA's (42mm vents) - it pulls from idle to 7000 rpm. Heads are between CB round and oval port cnc (about 185cfm @.600 lift @ 28").

[ Edited on 23-8-2007 by noslug ]