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Dynamat insulation on VW

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cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#812140
OK an update. Dynamat Exteme, ebay price example $215 per 3.35m2, which equates to over $60 per sp meter. see http://cgi.ebay.com.au/DYNAMAT-Xtreme-Bulk-Pack-10455-9X-Sheets-36SqFt-3-35m2-/180584710907?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0bb002fb.

Using this material, http://www.acoustica.com.au/acoustiflex.html as the base and sandwiching between layers of aluminium foil, it looks like the price could come in well under half the price.

The first production run could be before the end of the year.

Anyone else interested?

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#812145
Dean1974 wrote:Hi i did some researh about prices and dynamat is very expensive to do whole car, eg guy here in adelaide paid $3500....for his combi . Well what i decide i bought some that thin stuff that goes in roof and i am going to double folded and use that on floor and then carpet on top of it... My trimmer has given me that advice, hope to get it all done and find out how much quiter is but i am sure it will be quiter..


Hi
THE main objection I have is the weight of these products..
= VERY HEAVY...
I bought a piece of rubber backed stuff from Jaycar a few years ago.. was very expensive.. but also was much too heavy..IMHO

I ended up using the blue yoga mat stuff [foam]
its water proof - weighs nothing and is very inexpensive -

I put two layers over My roof... in quarter panels etc...
around the engine bay- above the gearbox... etc..
in doors... under guards... under rear valance..

My silver beetle doesn't get hot inside it... excellent...
even when parked in the sun....
its very quiet - I've been told by other beetle owners...

I used contact adhesive - from Go Lo..
coat each surface with the adhesive... let go touch dry...
then place together... this is the hardest part.. as when they touch... You won't get them apart....
put it together when not dry and it will probably fall off in the future.... same as when done with carpet using wet adhesive....

LEE


- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,474 posts · joined Jun 2004 ·

#812147
ok lee. heres some figures for you with a type 4 motor and the rear parcel shelf and front foot wells done in dyno mat. my car is just under 900kg. the difference in motor is only about 20kgs at the most once converted to upright.
ok a 72 sbug came out of factory at 1918 lbs (roughly 870kg) from here
http://www.1302super.com/b15_72.html

so at 10 kgs of extra weight added and a huge reduction in noise inside the car. i think its worth it.
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#812152
Like Barls said, people splitting hairs over 10-15kg of sound deadner is rediculous, its no different to having 1/3 tank more of fuel or a very small child in the back seat.

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#812168

Hi Guys

well it looks like its only Me... lol

I can now carry an extra 10kgs of tools with Me... lol

and put the spare wheel back in... lol

and fill the windscreen washer...

I'm not doubting that the Dynamat won't do the job...

I received some parts from the USA a while back and the box had a piece of insulation in it..
its strong silver foil both sides with soft foam in the centre..
its about 6mm thick and weighs nothing....
no name on it either, but when I saw it I naturally thought it was dynamat..
but there are probably 50 companies in the USA making stuff like that...

I think it would work well....
as My Yoga mats are working well too...
and no silver foil as yet....

silver foil will probably stop more of the sound as it works well at stopping heat...

IMHO = in My Humble Opinion

LEE





- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,474 posts · joined Jun 2004 ·

#812170
lee dyno mat is more like a tar based product with a heavy foil backing. its self adhesive so no need for gules.
not like what you describe
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#812173
barls wrote:lee dyno mat is more like a tar based product with a heavy foil backing. its self adhesive so no need for gules.
not like what you describe

Hi
Barls
I did see it last week for the first time
My Son has used a box of it on His Kombi...
and making it self adhesive is another plus...

I used some stuff about 5mm thick under the bonnet of the Lancer I had... it wasn't really flexible and didn't stick too well either... as it all fell off... after a while...
not sure where I bought it...

cheers

LEE

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#812200
barls wrote:lee dyno mat is more like a tar based product with a heavy foil backing. its self adhesive so no need for gules.
not like what you describe
Dynamat use butyl rubber as their core material. Sorry it's the materials scientist in me.

The local stuff I am looking to have made is PVC based, so a bit different.

baghall Ben Hal Outlaw Bushranger

1,021 posts · joined Jan 2010 ·

#812576
Definitely interested, as have already spent a lot on soundproofing car but still need more due to rear cannons being so bloudy loud. They do sound good in tunnels though, and it is cool when I set off car alarms driving past.
68 Baja - It's a growing pain!
58 Baja ute - and the pain spreads!
85 T3 Kombi - still growing
89 T3 Kombi - parts car

waltermitty Legend when my beer goggles are on

1,993 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#812598
Cam070 the acoustica is the bomb better and cheaper than dynamat use it with contact adhesive.
Angel mat is also excellent for engine bays and is chemical resistant.

Whats the production run you are talking about with self adhesive will that be a new acoustica product or something you are doing?

Flash tac should not be used under headliner as the adhesive is not great and the bitumen based deadenert
can melt on hot days!

Have a look at Raamat email the supplier he will send to Australia its also the bomb and half the price of dynamat.

Mitchell
23 windows ...8 too many!

baghall Ben Hal Outlaw Bushranger

1,021 posts · joined Jan 2010 ·

#812741
Waltermitty, too dam distracting reading your posts. They take twice as long as they should cause of your avatar!😍
68 Baja - It's a growing pain!
58 Baja ute - and the pain spreads!
85 T3 Kombi - still growing
89 T3 Kombi - parts car

3amigos Seriously Crusin Dubber

100 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#812744
anyone used this?..found it at bunnings...sounded good...my trimmer thinks dynamat is over priced and not as good as most of the others...

cant be bothered to cut and paste ..pics here..

http://forums.kombiclub.com/showthread.php?t=30058&highlight=dyna


found this on the web

FAQ Q) What is radiant heat and why does it matter?

Radiant heat is energy. Radiant heat is heat that is transmitted from a heat source through space. It is the heat we feel from distant objects like the sun or a fire. Radiant heat is also called infra-red heat or infra-red energy. A whopping around 80% of the heat transfer in your building envelope is via radiant heat energy, which heats up the house in summer.

Q) How does Green Insulation™ work?

Green Insulation™ products are made up of layers of air bubbles sandwiched between 99+% pure aluminium foils. It reflects back 97% of the radiant heat to achieve thermal comfort inside home all year around. The Reflecta-Range™ patented coating protects the products from corrosion, oxidisation and glare.
Q) Does moisture and water vapour affect Green Insulation™?

Green Insulation™ products have a unique polymer coating on top of the aluminium surface, which is an excellent barrier against moisture and water vapour.
Q) How do I install Green Insulation™?

Green Insulation™ is easily installed and all the installation guidelines can be found on our web site. Click here.
Q) Does Green Insulation™ pass the fire test?

All Green Insulation™ products pass the required fire tests allowing it to be used in all buildings where AS/NZS 1530.2 & AS/NZS 1530.3 is a mandatory requirement. Green Insulation has a low flammability Index (≤ 5). Please click here to download fire certificates.
Q) Additional benefits using Green Insulation™?

All Green Insulation™ products provide thermal comfort all year around. Green Insulation™ has excellent R-values, fire properties, acoustic properties, tensile and burst strength, fall arrest properties and anti-slip properties. Its entire product range comes with 15 year long warranty.
Q) What does Total R-value mean?

Total R-values indicates the thermal performance of insulation system. It includes the individual R-value of product, air-spaces and building material which are part of the system. Higher total R-values reflects better thermal performance of system.
Q) Can we achieve higher R-value with bigger air-space?

Yes, higher R-values can be achieved simply by increasing the airspace facing the product.

Q) What are different types of heat transfer?

There are three types of heat transfer: Conduction, Convection and Radiation. Radiation is the major form of heat transfer responsible for temperature rise in building during summer.

Q) Do Green Insulation™ products comply with Australian Standards?

All Green Insulation products do comply with Australian Standards of Insulation material including Fire and R-value calculations.
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zayus Wolfsburg Wizard

437 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#812881
I agree with Lee, the weight of Dynomat concerns me too.
10 - 15 additional kilos sounds excessive, in an 820 kilo car, that has less than 100 HP @ the rear wheels.

t_tuffnut Wolfsburg Wizard

425 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·

#813276
I've used flash tac in mine and it has muffled the sound a bit. I did use it in the head liner though and haven't subjected it to extreme heat yet. Thanks for the heads up!

I don't know how much cheaper it has been using flash tac, as I've used 3 rolls from bunnings and spent roughly $150 on it so far, only covering the roof, doors, rear quarters, rear firewall and under rear seat areas.

When you cruise around with the windows down, it kinda makes all that effort redundant. I just upgraded the stereo, so that kinda drowns out the engine noise and encourages more performance from the driver (I turned into a tail gating arsehole yesterday, and I blame Elvis Costello not wanting to got to Chelsea).
1966 Bug

1973 L Bug

Aussie Dubbin Fahrvergnugen

895 posts · joined Jul 2008 ·

#813323
I read an article in a magazine years ago that suggested an alternative to Dynamat.
They said go to the local wreckers and take out the lining used in all modern European cars. They have really good stuff, the crashies don't want to charge much if at all and you can get buckloads of it. Then when laying it in place make sure to fill all the groves you find in the sheetmetal first to make aflush surface... part metal part body deadening, and then go over the entire surface, that way you get a very neat finish and a very sound prof one too.
'68 BUG build(Racing)
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69Baja
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Manx(MaxFX)
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=88799&page=1#pid826884

cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#815314
UPDATE - Apologies I've not been around too much lately, but thoughht you'd be interested to know that I have in my possession the pre-production samples of the Acoustica material. It looks good. I asked them to sandwich the butyl rubber sound insulation in between foil layers, but its not as necessary as is the case with fibrous materials as it won't soak up water.

Bottom line is the stuff looks good, has a proven record in commerial applications, and they can produce it for us in 1300x1300 sheets and can definitely make it for people like us.

I can't get pics sorted out until the weekend, and get get that organised to show you all.

I'll then see if I can confirm pricing, but as mentioned before, it will be around half the price of Dynamat, based on ebay prices.

The only catch is they can't put make them self adhesive like Dynamat, but have recommended a 2-sided tape to use with it that has high temperature stability, so should be good for interior/roof applications.

waveman1500 Also rides a Honda

1,346 posts · joined Dec 2009 ·

#815356
I'll be interested in the acoustica car product if it becomes available within the next month or so, otherwise I will have to hurry up and buy something off the shelf before I go completely deaf. Starting a new job in January and will need to commute in the bug at this stage, so it will need some soundproofing!
1972 VW S-Bug - For Sale!
1968-onwards Beetle panels and glass for sale

beetleboy88 Officially Full-On Dubber

255 posts · joined Jun 2008 ·

#815595
dynamat is awesome! chucked some on the doors when i got my speakers reinstalled on my doors. works a treat! makes the doors nice and heavy and really absorbs the impact of thumping speakers.
1973 Super Beetle

waveman1500 Also rides a Honda

1,346 posts · joined Dec 2009 ·

#815801
Camo, how's the Acoustica stuff going? I've got cash in hand and I want the sound deadening in my car before Christmas! I'm on holidays now so it's the perfect time to do it. If it's possible at all to get the product to me before the end of the year then please let me know where to send my money and I will buy! If not, then I will have to use other alternatives.
1972 VW S-Bug - For Sale!
1968-onwards Beetle panels and glass for sale

ahoogah Seriously Crusin Dubber

135 posts · joined Oct 2009 ·

#815884
Been doing a bit of research on sound in cars and from what I can glean, most of the noise is revirbaration of body panels.
Like many I think dynamat is too heavy and expensive and on looking at alternatives, am focusing on rubberised tile adhesive.
I have used this water mixed powder on floor tiles and remember it remaining flexible.
I will be trialing re aplication, colouring, and finish and mixing with ceranospheres (thermal barrier).
The best part is it's about $35/20kg bag.
Dave

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#815976
3amigos wrote:anyone used this?..found it at bunnings...sounded good...my trimmer thinks dynamat is over priced and not as good as most of the others...

HI
WELL, I RECEIVED SOME VW PARTS FROM THE USA THAT A FRIEND WAS HOLDING FOR ME.
THE BOX HAD A PIECE OF THIS GREEN TYPE OF INSULATION YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT..
ITS SILVER BOTH SIDES... AND TOUGH..
THE INSIDE IS PLASTIC BUBBLE WRAP LOOKING...

ABOUT 5-6MM THICK...

AND THE BEST PART....

IT WEIGHS NOTHING .. HOW GOOD IS THAT??
NO BRAND NAME ON IT THOUGH...

LEE...
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#815983
Apologies guys, things have been pretty hectic here. But as I said, I had the sample and the Acoustica guys can make this for those who want it.

Here is a pic of what it looks like. I peeled some of the foil back so you can see what the inside sound insulation looks like.

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cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#815984
and here it is side on so you can see the thickness. As you can see its about 2mm thick. And also FYI you need some density or weight to stop/damp the drumming that comes from thin car panels.

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cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#815985
and here it is showing that it can be bent to follow the countours of panels, floors etc.

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donn Wolfsburg Elder

3,515 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·

#816019
On that link it looks like a product called Aircell, it's like a realy tough bubble wrap with a reflective material on each side and is used in domestic and comercial buildings to insulate under the roofing material, cant realy see how it would stop noise though, the same company has a new (er) product which is a sheet foam, available in a couple of different thicknesses, covered with a reflective material, it's often used in domestic steel sheds and simmilar structures, that may have a sound deadening ability if glued well to the metal panel. I use offcuts of the bubble wrap one under my 2 man and 1 man camping tent, certainly makes it more comfortable by stopping the cold from the ground penetrating into the tent, also acts as a ground sheet to protect the floor of the tent, bit bulky to strap to the backpack though.
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!

waltermitty Legend when my beer goggles are on

1,993 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#816029
Dynamayt is not a sound prooffer its a deadener it stops resonance. The air cell green stuff will be useless on a door panel for noise reduction .the weight is needed so that the inertia of the mass counteracts the drumming or resonating of as car panel.

Camo if i want some do i speak to aucoustica? if its half the price of dynamat I am in the need of some now.
That green aircell stuff will not help car noise.
23 windows ...8 too many!

cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#816053
Ok guys if you want some of the acoustica goodness call Dan on 02 95502900. Let him know that you are from the AVD forum and he'll sort you out. FYI we are the first to be offered this product, and it's a new product line for them. You can also tell him that Cam sent you!

veedubrob Learner Dubber

2 posts · joined Feb 2011 ·

#826979
cam070 wrote:Anyone intersted in a local, cheaper alternative? I just started speaking to an Oz company who make an equivalent. They have been making it for a slightly different application, but its more or less the same stuff, just a damn site cheaper.

I have offered my car as a test bed, but it still won't be ready for it for months.

But if you guys are interested, add a note here and I'll let him know people want to take a look.
Hi,I would be interested in a cheaper alternative.Let me know the details when possible.Cheers Rob.

cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#826982
veedubrob wrote:
cam070 wrote:Anyone intersted in a local, cheaper alternative? I just started speaking to an Oz company who make an equivalent. They have been making it for a slightly different application, but its more or less the same stuff, just a damn site cheaper.

I have offered my car as a test bed, but it still won't be ready for it for months.

But if you guys are interested, add a note here and I'll let him know people want to take a look.
Hi,I would be interested in a cheaper alternative.Let me know the details when possible.Cheers Rob.
The contact details are 2 posts above, give Dan a call and he'll sort you out.