amazeer Bishop of Volkswagenism
3,029 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·
To alienate another bunch of drivers, those tradies in the 4-5 tonners are pretty scary drivers too.
stop pandering to senior citz
ratty 63 Custom Title Time!
1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·
I could not agree more - I have been saying this for years.Yogie wrote:I personally think ALL drivers shoud have to sit a written and practical test every 5 years. The rules change frequently and they are usually not advertised very well so a lot of drivers think the current rules are the same as when they were first licensed. We all get in to bad habits as well so it would be a good wakeup call to find out what you are doing wrong.
Yogie
I have never been fined for anything since passing my car licence 20 years ago, I have been involved in 3 accidents - all caused by other drivers disobeying the road rules and not paying attention (which is against the road rules all on its own) and I thought that I was a good driver. Then, three weeks ago I sat my drivers licence test again - but this time in a 'heavy vehicle'. The actual driving test checks you know all the road rules relating to cars plus all the extra rules relating to heavy vehicles. I did several lessons with a driving school before taking the test and I was surprised at how much I didn't know or had forgotten about the road rules.
I'm pleased to say that I passed my HR licence without a single fault (apparently this is a rare occurrence) and my wife has commented on how much better I drive a car since taking the lessons! 😀
Unfortunately, it is unlikely that regular testing of drivers will ever happen as the cost to the government would be too high... although you have to wonder how much they could save in road safety advertising campaigns and other road safety/crash related expenses if everyone was re-tested regularly....
R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂
oldtub356 Seriously Crusin Dubber
139 posts · joined Dec 2009 ·
amazeer - quote: "Why are there no cries to restrict and test older drivers more?"
a'......... if your "...CRIES..." are REALLY serious...... I will issue you a challenge:
I will hand my really OLD licence in, until I can pass the current NSW Licence Test;
IF,
You hand your REGO in, until your DUB can pass Current ADR Standards.
Surely, the same arguments apply........ or maybe it is not really all THAT important to you??
OLDtub.
a'......... if your "...CRIES..." are REALLY serious...... I will issue you a challenge:
I will hand my really OLD licence in, until I can pass the current NSW Licence Test;
IF,
You hand your REGO in, until your DUB can pass Current ADR Standards.
Surely, the same arguments apply........ or maybe it is not really all THAT important to you??
OLDtub.
beetleboyjeff Custom Title Time!
1,790 posts · joined Feb 2009 ·
Accidents are nearly always caused by drivers, not by cars.
From your ole' mate Jeff
amazeer Bishop of Volkswagenism
3,029 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·
OLDtub, you've completely lost me. Not sure what you are saying. (err in writing this reply I think I get it now)
The only VW I own has been sitting in (3 different) garages over the last 15-20 years. If I were to get it in the condition it was in when it left the factory it wouldnt pass the original ADRs let alone the current ones. However I think you'll find that it is a danger only to myself and emissions testing equipment, not other road users.
Sorry you've taken it personally.
The only VW I own has been sitting in (3 different) garages over the last 15-20 years. If I were to get it in the condition it was in when it left the factory it wouldnt pass the original ADRs let alone the current ones. However I think you'll find that it is a danger only to myself and emissions testing equipment, not other road users.
Sorry you've taken it personally.
oldtub356 Seriously Crusin Dubber
139 posts · joined Dec 2009 ·
Yes Jeff, I agree with the "drivers" not "cars" argument - also a lot of good defensive driving by young and old coupled with the use of modern safety ADR stuff, helps avoiding potential accidents by situations caused by others - young and old.
a, - I haven't taken it "personally" - unfortunately, the pension mob keep telling me that I am far too YOUNG to receive the OLD AGE pension.
Anyway, I had presumed that you were aiming at a generation older than me. (Don't be fooled by my log in - OLD and TUB are number plates on my cars - I am neither old nor tubby, says me.)
My response to your article was to put you on the defensive as your wording seemed a bit NIMBY (test the old bug gers but don't test me) - thanks for defending.
If you have a look on the RTA site, you will see that there are laws in play (in NSW) which do what you are complaining about.
Once a driver is entitled to an Unrestricted Licence, the Points Demerit System (and the Courts) are supposed to keep them in check from then until they reach 75 - when they must have annual medicals - or when their Doctor gets a whiff of some degeneration - he must report them. At 85, bi-annual driving testing is mandatory.
Your argument could be that these numbers are too high - I would agree by 5 years.
I believe that new testing should be applied before being allowed on the road after loosing a licence at any age.
We all have our Old Driver/New Driver stories - if things were as bad as you seem to believe, I am sure that every Insurance Company (money grabbers) and the RTA (revenue raising experts) who both have very competent actuaries, would be applying age levies. In fact the comparative accident histories of "aged" drivers is insignificant compared with the under 25s. So, no special treatment.
In fact the age group that has used the Demerit system the most (over their lifetime) is the 30>49 mob.
Overlaying all of this, there is the Age Discrimination Act (Federal) in play, as is similar legislation in many countries. (There are public fora around the world which would have "pinged" your article and given you a "rest" for a month - rather than risk contravening local prejudice laws). You may have noticed that when filling in various forms, government and corporate, that: age, gender and nationality fields are not mandatory.
My interest in your article was raised due to several friends of mine, who are card carrying oldtimers who are still excellent drivers and racers - you bulked them (discriminately) in with any others who do have poor driving behaviours - they tend not to defend themselves.
Now, my pet road prejudice is with Kiwis - universally considered the worst drivers on Earth. I believe that the government should stop pandering to them and send them to Christmas Island for driving lessons, before allowing them on our roads. They should also be entitled to triple demerit points and deported for a year once achieving maximum points.(All joking of course, but it is just so easy to single out individual groups for ridicule, isn't it?)
OLD-tub-
a, - I haven't taken it "personally" - unfortunately, the pension mob keep telling me that I am far too YOUNG to receive the OLD AGE pension.
Anyway, I had presumed that you were aiming at a generation older than me. (Don't be fooled by my log in - OLD and TUB are number plates on my cars - I am neither old nor tubby, says me.)
My response to your article was to put you on the defensive as your wording seemed a bit NIMBY (test the old bug gers but don't test me) - thanks for defending.
If you have a look on the RTA site, you will see that there are laws in play (in NSW) which do what you are complaining about.
Once a driver is entitled to an Unrestricted Licence, the Points Demerit System (and the Courts) are supposed to keep them in check from then until they reach 75 - when they must have annual medicals - or when their Doctor gets a whiff of some degeneration - he must report them. At 85, bi-annual driving testing is mandatory.
Your argument could be that these numbers are too high - I would agree by 5 years.
I believe that new testing should be applied before being allowed on the road after loosing a licence at any age.
We all have our Old Driver/New Driver stories - if things were as bad as you seem to believe, I am sure that every Insurance Company (money grabbers) and the RTA (revenue raising experts) who both have very competent actuaries, would be applying age levies. In fact the comparative accident histories of "aged" drivers is insignificant compared with the under 25s. So, no special treatment.
In fact the age group that has used the Demerit system the most (over their lifetime) is the 30>49 mob.
Overlaying all of this, there is the Age Discrimination Act (Federal) in play, as is similar legislation in many countries. (There are public fora around the world which would have "pinged" your article and given you a "rest" for a month - rather than risk contravening local prejudice laws). You may have noticed that when filling in various forms, government and corporate, that: age, gender and nationality fields are not mandatory.
My interest in your article was raised due to several friends of mine, who are card carrying oldtimers who are still excellent drivers and racers - you bulked them (discriminately) in with any others who do have poor driving behaviours - they tend not to defend themselves.
Now, my pet road prejudice is with Kiwis - universally considered the worst drivers on Earth. I believe that the government should stop pandering to them and send them to Christmas Island for driving lessons, before allowing them on our roads. They should also be entitled to triple demerit points and deported for a year once achieving maximum points.(All joking of course, but it is just so easy to single out individual groups for ridicule, isn't it?)
OLD-tub-
Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds
2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Personally I don't have a problem with old drivers per se - only BAD old drivers. And BAD drivers do not seem to be confined to any age category! I'm more worried about bad taxi drivers and bad P-platers.
There are lots we can learn from the Germans about how drivers licences - and road rules - should be implemented. Here's some of the features of their system for us to think about:
* The Autobahns have a 'suggested' speed limit of 130 km/h and while many large modern cars legally drive much faster than this, most motorists drive at 130 or less. Slow vehicles must keep right and this law is rigidly enforced. It is illegal to pass on the right. Not all of the Autobahn system is unlimited - busy sections near cities and interchanges may have a 130 km/h limit.
* Normal two-lane highway has a 100 km/h limit. Cities and towns have a 50 km/h limit unless ortherwised posted. Residential areas are usually 30 km/h. The German way is slow in town and fast on the modern motorways - not the mishmash we have in Australia.
* Germany has a 0.08 blood alcohol limit (but 0.05 if you are involved in an accident)
* All cars are required to have a TUV inspection sticker before they can be registered or driven. The TUV inspection is tough and all vehicles must be roadworthy. They can fail cars for excessive smoke or noise, and even having rust spots or dents. This is why less than 75,000 Beetles survive on German roads today.
* Many countries have a 'licence reciprocity' arrangement with Germany, so that you can drive there on your Australian licence. But if you stay longer than 6 months, you need to pass all German tests and gain a full German licence.
* A German licence costs 1,000 Euro ($A 1350). You can start taking lessons at 16½ and can gain a preliminary licence at 17, but these must have a fully licenced driver (aged 30+ with at least 5 years expericence and no more than 3 demerit points) with them at all times. You must be 18 to gain a full licence.
* Parents are not permitted to teach their children to drive. They must attend a professional driving school (Fahrschule), which is compulsory. The school covers all aspects of driving a car, including night driving, Autobahn procedures and experience, defensive skills, in-town driving, emergencies and many other aspects of operating a vehicle. The curriculum also includes mechanical instruction (basic auto theory and repair), road rules and first aid. It takes at least 25-45 hours of practical lessons, and at least 10 hours of classroom theory. All driving school vehicles are dual control. Lessons are available in a variety of languages (such as English).
* After the lessons are complete, the applicant must pass a First Aid test - 'First Aid at the Scene of an Accident' (Sofortmaßnahmen am Unfallort)
* The applicant must pass an eye test by a certified optician (Sehtestbescheinigung). Applicants for heavy vehicle/bus licences must also pass a medical exam and gain a medical certificate.
* The applicant then applies for both a written (theory) and a practical test. The written test is multiple choice but is only available in German. There are 30 questions with point scores from 2 to 5, depending on the difficulty/importance of the question. Questions may have more than one correct answer. Wrong answers have the points deducted. A loss of 10 points or more is a fail.
* The applicant must then pass the practical test. This lasts between 30 and 45 minutes. The driver must demonstrate an ability to drive safely, competently and calmly. The test can be re-taken three times at fortnightly intervals. There is no limit to the number of times it can be re-taken, but after the third, sixth and ninth re-takes there must be a three-month gap. The theory test is only valid for one year. If re-taking a practical driving test after 12 months, the theory test must be re-taken too.
* Once gained, a German licence is valid for life. If it is lost (for traffic offences etc) the entire process above must be repeated.
http://germany.angloinfo.com/countries/germany/drivlicence.asp
There are lots we can learn from the Germans about how drivers licences - and road rules - should be implemented. Here's some of the features of their system for us to think about:
* The Autobahns have a 'suggested' speed limit of 130 km/h and while many large modern cars legally drive much faster than this, most motorists drive at 130 or less. Slow vehicles must keep right and this law is rigidly enforced. It is illegal to pass on the right. Not all of the Autobahn system is unlimited - busy sections near cities and interchanges may have a 130 km/h limit.
* Normal two-lane highway has a 100 km/h limit. Cities and towns have a 50 km/h limit unless ortherwised posted. Residential areas are usually 30 km/h. The German way is slow in town and fast on the modern motorways - not the mishmash we have in Australia.
* Germany has a 0.08 blood alcohol limit (but 0.05 if you are involved in an accident)
* All cars are required to have a TUV inspection sticker before they can be registered or driven. The TUV inspection is tough and all vehicles must be roadworthy. They can fail cars for excessive smoke or noise, and even having rust spots or dents. This is why less than 75,000 Beetles survive on German roads today.
* Many countries have a 'licence reciprocity' arrangement with Germany, so that you can drive there on your Australian licence. But if you stay longer than 6 months, you need to pass all German tests and gain a full German licence.
* A German licence costs 1,000 Euro ($A 1350). You can start taking lessons at 16½ and can gain a preliminary licence at 17, but these must have a fully licenced driver (aged 30+ with at least 5 years expericence and no more than 3 demerit points) with them at all times. You must be 18 to gain a full licence.
* Parents are not permitted to teach their children to drive. They must attend a professional driving school (Fahrschule), which is compulsory. The school covers all aspects of driving a car, including night driving, Autobahn procedures and experience, defensive skills, in-town driving, emergencies and many other aspects of operating a vehicle. The curriculum also includes mechanical instruction (basic auto theory and repair), road rules and first aid. It takes at least 25-45 hours of practical lessons, and at least 10 hours of classroom theory. All driving school vehicles are dual control. Lessons are available in a variety of languages (such as English).
* After the lessons are complete, the applicant must pass a First Aid test - 'First Aid at the Scene of an Accident' (Sofortmaßnahmen am Unfallort)
* The applicant must pass an eye test by a certified optician (Sehtestbescheinigung). Applicants for heavy vehicle/bus licences must also pass a medical exam and gain a medical certificate.
* The applicant then applies for both a written (theory) and a practical test. The written test is multiple choice but is only available in German. There are 30 questions with point scores from 2 to 5, depending on the difficulty/importance of the question. Questions may have more than one correct answer. Wrong answers have the points deducted. A loss of 10 points or more is a fail.
* The applicant must then pass the practical test. This lasts between 30 and 45 minutes. The driver must demonstrate an ability to drive safely, competently and calmly. The test can be re-taken three times at fortnightly intervals. There is no limit to the number of times it can be re-taken, but after the third, sixth and ninth re-takes there must be a three-month gap. The theory test is only valid for one year. If re-taking a practical driving test after 12 months, the theory test must be re-taken too.
* Once gained, a German licence is valid for life. If it is lost (for traffic offences etc) the entire process above must be repeated.
http://germany.angloinfo.com/countries/germany/drivlicence.asp