4th gear popping out.....repair or replace?

shokwave2 Officially Full-On Dubber

289 posts · joined Mar 2010 · 13 May 2011, 2:50 pm

#840951

My 4th gear pops out when i put my foot down. If i'm just cruising the freeway it's ok, but once i come to a hill or an overtaking lane it pops out of gear once i accelerate. I have to softly place my hand on the gear knob to prevent it from popping but i've read this wears it out.

It never used to annoy me as i would mostly drive around residential and city roads, but now my daily drive is 150km+ and 90% of it is 100km/h freeway driving.

My question is: Has anyone had this problem and what did you do? Did you get it rebuilt or just replace the whole transmission? Does anyone know roughly the cost differences between a repair and a replacement?

Cheers.

shaihulud Custom Title Time!

1,448 posts · joined Nov 2005 · 13 May 2011, 3:31 pm

#840953

I drove a 1970, 1500 Beetle with a gearbox that jumped out of top, for over a year by attaching an Occy strap to the gearshift lever. I hooked the other end onto the underside of the rear seat frame.

When I changed into top I slid the Occy strap up to the top and when I changed down it slid down all by itself and in the lower gears it was out of the way

I did this for a year and it never seemed to get any worse even though I've heard that that is a good way to wear the gearbox out in a hurry.

I suggest that you try that until you can organise a proper fix of the problem. I doubt if it will make it a more expensive job.

What the problem needs to fix it I don't know. I'll watch this thread closely to get the answer.

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 13 May 2011, 5:05 pm

#840967

Cheaper to replace - $500ish + work

Better to rebuild - $1500ish + work

All depends on the car

Futue te ipsum!!!

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 · 13 May 2011, 5:38 pm

#840978

I assume that you have tried adjusting the stick,if not this may help,but as it has been jumping out for a while I would suggest a repair as a used box is always an unknown quantity and no one wants to do the job twice. replacement.

shokwave2 Officially Full-On Dubber

289 posts · joined Mar 2010 · 13 May 2011, 5:43 pm

#840981

grumble wrote:I assume that you have tried adjusting the stick,if not this may help,but as it has been jumping out for a while I would suggest a repair as a used box is always an unknown quantity and no one wants to do the job twice. replacement.

Sure have. I replaced both bushings about a month ago and the only difference is less slop. I've played around with adjusting the shift plate but it still pops out no matter where the plate is.

Also, 4th gear is noisy, which suggests wear i'm guessing. I don't want to replace the transmission only to have the same problem occur in 12 months time.

cb john Wolfsburg Wizard

470 posts · joined Jun 2007 · 13 May 2011, 10:15 pm

#841030

It could be as little as worn or broken detent spring...check that out first before major repairs...

shokwave2 Officially Full-On Dubber

289 posts · joined Mar 2010 · 14 May 2011, 7:49 am

#841055

The detent springs sit in the three holes on the driver's side of the transmission don't they? What purpose do they serve and how do they effect the 4th gear?

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 14 May 2011, 6:12 pm

#841126

shokwave2 wrote:
grumble wrote:I assume that you have tried adjusting the stick,if not this may help,but as it has been jumping out for a while I would suggest a repair as a used box is always an unknown quantity and no one wants to do the job twice. replacement.
Sure have. I replaced both bushings about a month ago and the only difference is less slop. I've played around with adjusting the shift plate but it still pops out no matter where the plate is.

Also, 4th gear is noisy, which suggests wear i'm guessing. I don't want to replace the transmission only to have the same problem occur in 12 months time.

Hi

I would replace the transmission with a known good used one

change the oil and add two tubes of NULON G70 gearbox additive... that should stop any more wear and quieten the gearbox down..

cheers

LEE

PS: You need a specialist to fix a VW transaxle ...
so that will be a more expensive option...

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 · 14 May 2011, 6:40 pm

#841128

shokwave2 wrote:
grumble wrote:I assume that you have tried adjusting the stick,if not this may help,but as it has been jumping out for a while I would suggest a repair as a used box is always an unknown quantity and no one wants to do the job twice. replacement.
Sure have. I replaced both bushings about a month ago and the only difference is less slop. I've played around with adjusting the shift plate but it still pops out no matter where the plate is.

Also, 4th gear is noisy, which suggests wear i'm guessing. I don't want to replace the transmission only to have the same problem occur in 12 months time.

I would still repair the box that you have as i is a known unit,replace the sliding gear,selector fork and bearings and at least you know where you stand. Obviously when the box is in pieces it is easier to see what is worn.

cb john Wolfsburg Wizard

470 posts · joined Jun 2007 · 14 May 2011, 6:44 pm

#841129

shokwave2 wrote:The detent springs sit in the three holes on the driver's side of the transmission don't they? What purpose do they serve and how do they effect the 4th gear?

It is just as the name implies...they hold the gear selector in the place and prevent gear from jumping out...if I remember well, correctly set detent spring lets go at about 24 kg applied to the selector shaft at the hockey stick end..

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 · 14 May 2011, 6:58 pm

#841133

shokwave2 wrote:The detent springs sit in the three holes on the driver's side of the transmission don't they? What purpose do they serve and how do they effect the 4th gear?

To access the detent springs the box has to be dismantled first.

zayus Wolfsburg Wizard

437 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 14 May 2011, 10:21 pm

#841175

Hey hey,

Does it pop out of gear, when you drive the car in reverse?
Have you checked the front gearbox mount?

A broken front gearbox mount can cause the shifter to jump out of gear... specially when using reverse.

shokwave2 Officially Full-On Dubber

289 posts · joined Mar 2010 · 15 May 2011, 7:51 am

#841199

zayus wrote:Hey hey,

Does it pop out of gear, when you drive the car in reverse?
Have you checked the front gearbox mount?

A broken front gearbox mount can cause the shifter to jump out of gear... specially when using reverse.

No, just 4th. Checked front trans mount and that's solid. Every other gear holds it's own.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 15 May 2011, 8:14 am

#841202

This repair will require a total disassembly.
The wear that is the root cause is probably just the tip of the wear "iceberg",
but the labour required should be close to the same as a total rebuild.

The small teeth on 4th gear that engage with the operating sleeve have likely lost their taper.
Normally this taper holds the gear in engagment, under load and decelleration also.
Once the taper is worn, there is no way it can stay in gear without help.
The teeth within the operating sleeve can wear exactly the same.

On trans built after mid 1972 the later mainshaft bearing can pound into the nose cone, allowing the whole shaft to move forward and out of gear.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

shokwave2 Officially Full-On Dubber

289 posts · joined Mar 2010 · 15 May 2011, 9:16 am

#841212

Cheers dangerous.

I figured that a total disassembly would be needed. I guess it would be wise to have the rest of the gears checked/repaired to prevent any further wear, tear and repair in the near future. I better start saving.🙁 What does a rebuild cost roughly, just so i know how much i'll need?