How much money does horsepower cost??

Andy42 Insano Dub Head

709 posts · joined Mar 2003 · 27 Aug 2003, 6:40 pm

#79255

Ok so if you can get a v6 like wes`s or a turbo subi like the one I am doing and they put out about 200hp and upwards power and they cost about $3000 installed, by yourself. How much would it cost to get a vw motor of any type to put out the same hp and still be that reliable??

OvalGlen Custom Title Time!

1,361 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 27 Aug 2003, 7:19 pm

#79277

my guess, 5 k.
But please buy a Subaroo and then you can have everything else Japanese to go with it.
If you had a Harley would you put a Honda motor in it.?
I'll go back to my narrow minded street now and leave you to build a better mouse trap.... I do appreciate good engineering, but also admire the challenge of getting the old vw engine to get up and go.

Regards,Glenn>

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 27 Aug 2003, 7:37 pm

#79282

Basically, the VW engine was designed as a slow revving, breathing restricted engine. To make it a fire breathing monster that will Last a long time is very expensive.... it would be much better to use a type 4 Engine (2 liters) which is a MUCH improved Engineered engine, but its still going to Cost You Heaps but it will probably last longer than a type 1 engine..
Its much easier to Use a Modern designed multivalve (liquid cooled) engine that is engineered to make the horsepower in its standard form and it will last longer..... and be cheaper in the long run....
Lee 68AutoBug (o\!/o)

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- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Stanley I guess the reward is in the doing of it

4,523 posts · joined Mar 2003 · 27 Aug 2003, 7:40 pm

#79283

I'm with ovalglen on this one. as i've said before I'd rather make horsepower than buy it. each to their own but i think this arguement has been done to death.

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 27 Aug 2003, 7:43 pm

#79285

You said any VW engine Andy...
Well I have never heard of anyone putting a Liquid cooled golf or passat etc engine into a Beetle.... or Kombi.
They do use the type 4 engine which has liquid cooled heads. 1700-1800-2 liters.
(german spelling) The flat Four Subaru liquid cooled engine is probably the type of Engine that VW should have used in Beetles & Kombis the late 70's & 80's.
IMHO.. Lee

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 27 Aug 2003, 8:52 pm

#79313

my guess, 5 k.

More like 20 if you want to buy all theright stuff and make it last

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 27 Aug 2003, 9:22 pm

#79337

Go to Pobjoy with about $5-8k and you will get a full warranty race winner :thumb

Not 200 ponies,but more than enough useable power.

Use the aluminum case and it will be bullet proof !😀

I will agree there are cheaper options, like Wes's V6, rotary,subaru.......... but all need modification to the car, costly if you can not DIY.😉

[Edited on 27-8-2003 by Craig Torrens]

bugboymatt Custom Title Time!

1,405 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 27 Aug 2003, 9:30 pm

#79348

What kinda motor would ya get for that money any rough specs !!!!

Da Time For The Aircooled Revolution Is Upon US.
Brothers & Sisters Lets Hit The Streets, Roll As One. And Feel The Power Of The Aircooled Storm.

Andy42 Insano Dub Head

709 posts · joined Mar 2003 · 28 Aug 2003, 8:21 am

#79479

Ovalglen to a point I do agree with you. If I had a nice versioin of a beetle or a split screen i would probably stay with the vw version myself but as my buggy is a like most of them a bitsa,,fiberglass body, kombi gearbox, bettle tunnel, ford wheels and most of the rest aftermarket, I am not sure it has any type of motor that would be original equipment?? i am just curious to see the price comparisions.

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 28 Aug 2003, 9:14 am

#79512

http://www.geocities.com/enginecookbook/recipe10.htm

http://www.cal-look.com/index2.html

Here are 2 places that list some motor specs for a 200 ponie machine.

In the cal look one click on Top 20 then click on the persons name and you will see a story

200 ponies i would guess well over $10k

Richard had the 2.4L Type 1 turbo and then there was the 2.8L Type 4.
I would guess they were very close to 200 ponie machines.

Futue te ipsum!!!

56astro Custom Title Time!

1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 28 Aug 2003, 9:16 am

#79515

I agree 100% with OvalGlan.

That's why I went the type 1 engine route, and did what Craig suggested. Now I have an Oval that is 100% Volkswagen and doesn't cost a fortune for the regular maintenance.

BTW: I have been to a few race meetings recently where both type 1 powered cars and subaru powered cars have raced, and I am yet to witness a subaru-powered car accelerate without coughing and spluttering, unlike the real thing.

VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 28 Aug 2003, 9:19 am

#79517

That is because a lot of people who put the grafts on do it cause it is cheap

I doubt very much if they would have gone to the detail Wes has.

Futue te ipsum!!!

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 28 Aug 2003, 9:27 am

#79520

kafer69 wrote:as i've said before I'd rather make horsepower than buy it.

Kind of a funny arguement considering it took a hell of a lot more effort to neatly install the V6 than it does to buy a high HP VW motor from Pobjoy etc...

For a Hillclimb race car, the VW motor does a fine job. Craig's car is cool.

Unfortunately the currently suby motored hillclimb cars don't seem to know how to tune EFI, and make them look bad. Jeff Unwins car had lag from hell, did a gunshot backfire then was off. The other suby beetle had issues too. They should be running heaps smoother.

Putting a jap motor in completely transforms the car. It makes it so pleasant to drive. It's not the HP, it's the smoothness and refinement. That's something the VW motor will never have.

I coulda sold the baja and bought an MX6, but it wouldn't have been fun to built, satifying to finish, fun to drive, wouldn't go offroad, woulda turn heads, etc.

I like Baja's, but see no need to go broke to for the sake of keeping a VW motor in it. But your right, the jap conversion would be expensive if you couldn't do it yourself.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

no slow 63 Seriously Crusin Dubber

190 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 28 Aug 2003, 10:13 am

#79524

a reliable? non turbo 200 + hp VW engine will cost at least $15,000 in parts alone......

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 29 Aug 2003, 11:47 am

#79871

The 2.3L suits the karman cab, it is a nice car.

But performace wise the overweight Baja didn't have much trouble staying with it onto the highway (assuming you were giving it to it). I saw you flatten it and the cloud of black smoke, so I squeezed the throttle low in the revs and stayed with you no probs. Then you changed gears and I had to back off so I didn't run you over (I had almost gotten to 4,000rpm of my ~8,000 redline, so I wasn't in my power band and wasn't using full throttle). I should've really overtaken you 😀

But to be fair you did have 2 heavy passengers in your car 😀

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

HotRodMatt If it\'s old or rare - cut it!

3,616 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 29 Aug 2003, 11:51 am

#79873

Who cares how you do it. Build what you want for the power you want.

How many people with high HP engines actually use more than 25% of that power on a regular basis?

Secoh Fahrvergnugen

926 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 29 Aug 2003, 12:38 pm

#79884

All I know is that if my turbo wasser project has less power than a stock WRX (160kW) then I will be mightily pissed off and will sell it in favor of a jap motor. 🙂

If it aint broke,
Make it go faster!!