| [ Total Views: 1492 | Total Replies: 19 | Thread Id: 105068 ] |
|
|
 jamiesc
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 559
Threads: 106
Registered: December 30th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: bayside brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pica Red
|
| posted on February 14th, 2014 at 04:51 PM |
|
|
engine cases whats the best
im trying to find out what type of engine case to go for
im building a 2275cc and on the verge of buying a bubble case but
still cant decide can anyone help me out at the momment i have my 94mm pistons, 82mm stroker crank, straight cut cams gears 125 scat rockers and a few
other parts
any help much appreciated
cheers jamie
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on February 14th, 2014 at 06:47 PM |
|
|
I am currently building my second engine using a CB aluminium case, no issues at all, a better foundation than the mag case. you can get it in a lot
of different configerations to suit your current parts.
|
|
|
bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
|
| posted on February 14th, 2014 at 09:11 PM |
|
|
I'm in the middle of using a CB case here too. so far no issues apart from one stud that broke when only cranked up to half the specified torque. I
rekon it already had a fracture in the stud anyways judging by the cross section. Thats the only compliant, but it was one and i had a spare so no
biggy. Just a pain in the case having to part the case, clean the sealer and restart again.
Alum is heavier, and runs hotter (only issue). CB cases in stock form already have substantial clearancing for stroker cranks too (unlike magnesium
where you'll have to machine it), i don't know if its enough to clear for a 82mm crank though (you'll have to check), but its saving you from
having to clearance it like the magnesium. CB performance also offer in there alum cases drilled and tapped for full flow and can in a big range of
different bore deck heights to prevent the need for mass loads of barrel shims which you'll need to resolve given your stroke you want to use.
If you still feel need for magnesium, dual relief 1600 is what you are after. Ensure it isn't too old / had a long service life due to fatigue and
eventual cracking. Best way to 'estimate' that is to measure the main bearing journals of the case to see how oversized it is. Therefore you can
judge how many line bores it has (IE: how many times its been rebuild already in a past life). Have a chat to Mr. Matt Berry 
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
|
|
jamiesc
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 559
Threads: 106
Registered: December 30th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: bayside brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pica Red
|
| posted on February 14th, 2014 at 10:18 PM |
|
|
wheres the best place to buy a cb case cause ive been quoted 1500-1700 is there anyone that sells them cheaper? i want to go with all brand new parts
so i know nothing is second hand and that less will go wrong with it
|
|
|
bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
|
| posted on February 14th, 2014 at 10:36 PM |
|
|
I bought it from CB performance on their website. Was the cheapest.
i think it was $900 for case and a couple hundred for postage. It got held up at customs for tax purposes, given they wanted 10% for imported goods of
value greater than $1000. They had an option on the letter I recieved from then (stating that they were withholding it until tax was paid), that if i
felt the item isn't worth greater than $1000 and I show the invoice to prove, i could avoid it and they would release it for delivery.
I sent Aust customs the invoice, stating it was worth $900 or so, and they released it with no tax.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
|
|
coletrickle
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 661
Threads: 34
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 14th, 2014 at 10:42 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
I am currently building my second engine using a CB aluminium case, no issues at all, a better foundation than the mag case. you can get it in a lot
of different configerations to suit your current parts.
|
I don't see how an ally case is a better foundation than a mag case personally my experience is with a 2332 48 idas etc.It was a s/h usa import
complete with a big hole welded up in the top of the case so on paper not the best foundation for a drag specific daily driver although i had a
failure due to a cam with bad harmonic issues(listen to dave buttler) after 50,000 plus klms and an awful lot of drag racing,many trips to sydney,at
100 kph it is doing 4200rpm,so its not like i babied around.Upon dissasembly the case and crank were perfect it measured exactly the same as when
Matt Berry and I rebuilt it.It made 140hp atw.It never ran hot and looking back i could have made it run cooler and better and faster.I'm looking at
putting my old 1585 back together after sydney and previously that ran 14.89 and made 112hp atw with only7.5-1 compression looking for 125plus this
time that was also a mag case.I know of a 2LT single relief case gong on the dyno tomorrow,i'm very intrested to see what numbers this one puts down
because i drove it a couple of weeks ago and took a buddy for a "gentle drive"i didnt drive it as hard as the owner does and it seemed every bit as
quick as my 2332!
|
|
|
PAZZAN
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 592
Threads: 113
Registered: January 30th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on February 15th, 2014 at 07:27 AM |
|
|
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=104849
|
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on February 15th, 2014 at 08:14 AM |
|
|
When I was 'weighing up' the difference betwen the 2 cases, Rod Penrose pointed out the weight difference. The last thing I needed was another 12 or
so kilos hanging out the back, so it was the magnesium case for me. So far, so good. 2276, by the way.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on February 15th, 2014 at 08:15 AM |
|
|
The material in the aluminium case is a lot more durable than magnesium and will last longer , they also come pre machined to very good tolerances,
seen to many mag cases crack and the quality of the new mag cases are not as good as they used to be.
|
|
|
coletrickle
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 661
Threads: 34
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on February 15th, 2014 at 10:06 AM |
|
|
Mag cases may crack but how many of those cracked cases were caused by other factors like poor cooling systems and bad tunes?You can't buy an ally
replacement case for your 73RSR Porsche they run a magnesium case.Also aftef market stud kits are not a 100% correct replacement for og german and
nuts which have diffrent expansion rates which all have to work togeather to have a happy engine.IMO a happy hot street VW uses as many VW parts as
possible including thermostat flaps in a german fan shroud with german barrel covers etc.I'd rather have a reco'd $250 mag case and $750 worth of
reco'd german tin than a $1000 ally case and chinese tin,but thats me and im crazy ask anyone.
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on February 15th, 2014 at 10:35 AM |
|
|
The case for the porsche is magnesium because it is a race car and weight matters, regular replacement of it would be normal. problem with the mag
case is it ages and becomes brittle, there would be no way i would use a second hand magnesium case on a new performance engine, i run both case and
have good resalts with both, studs are a different story, the case studs have a job to do, that is provide the clamping force to hold the case
together, head studs are something else, i would also dispute they run hotter, i have seen no controlled tests that proved that, my 2275 in my ghia
with 10.8 to 1 compression has no issues with overheatiing, both oil temp and cylinder head temps run fine.
|
|
|
jamiesc
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 559
Threads: 106
Registered: December 30th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: bayside brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pica Red
|
| posted on February 18th, 2014 at 07:53 AM |
|
|
thanks for everyones help im gonna go for a cb case ive realised my engine will cost me alot more then i though and its gonna be a bigger engine that
i thought also but it doesnt bother me.
i want a strong engine and sound like a cb case will be the go.
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on February 18th, 2014 at 10:31 AM |
|
|
The aluminium case is designed for the job and the mag case has to be modified to do the job when the factory only intended it for a 1600.
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on February 18th, 2014 at 11:03 AM |
|
|
go the ally case if you want a bullet proof motor
|
|
|
jamiesc
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 559
Threads: 106
Registered: December 30th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: bayside brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pica Red
|
| posted on February 18th, 2014 at 03:49 PM |
|
|
yeah i was going to get a cb ally case craig cant wait to be at the point were im putting my engine together and going to start it for the first time
8 months is my goal
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on February 18th, 2014 at 04:00 PM |
|
|
I am currently building a 2054 on a CB case
|
|
|
bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
|
| posted on February 18th, 2014 at 04:12 PM |
|
|
Ditto! 2054cc on CB
Personally the attraction wasn't so much the material, but the 100% zero km brand new case, with no extra machining costs at all for 94mm, clearanced
for stroker crank, tapped for full flow, strengthened behind cyl 3 etc.
Magnesium cases would attract all that extra machining, so for cost effectiveness, i went alum (with no compromise on reliability etc.)
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on February 18th, 2014 at 09:07 PM |
|
|
As far as the Auto Linea after market cases go, the CB or Scat are the best. They seem to be machined in different places but both I've used with
good results, as opposed to the Empi ally cases, these are still Auto Linea (the foundary that casts them) but I have seen problems with a few cases
so would not recommend them.
Personally, I do prefer the light weight of the mag case and the way everything then fits together but horses for courses.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
Yogie
Super Moderator
Posts: 1603
Threads: 108
Registered: June 7th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on February 19th, 2014 at 07:12 AM |
|
|
Maybe a little off topic but, how does a type 4 case compare to the ally case? Is one a lot better than the other to use when building up a
performance motor?
Yogie
|
|
|
Smiley
A.k.a.: Daniel Stephens
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2125
Threads: 110
Registered: October 29th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Yeppoon, Central Queensland
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Synchro'd
|
| posted on February 24th, 2014 at 09:46 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Yogie
Maybe a little off topic but, how does a type 4 case compare to the ally case? Is one a lot better than the other to use when building up a
performance motor?
Yogie
|
Type IV cases are alloy. but they are different engine to the Type I so you couldn't use the case as a base for a Type I engine.
That is also another good argument for the the alloy case. When the factory decided that it want to build a larger and more powerful engine (up to 2L)
they went with an alloy case, they didn't stick with mag. There was obviously plenty of research and testing put into this by the Volkswagen
engineers.
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
|
|
|
