| [ Total Views: 1055 | Total Replies: 27 | Thread Id: 107546 ] |
|
|
 anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 11:09 AM |
|
|
Is there a dealer fitted supercharger/turbo
Hello team,
Does anyone have any information/proof that Judson superchargers or a turbo installation were offered by the VW dealer as an optional upgrade for
performance.......
I have been searching and everything I find point's a finger towards aftermarket suppliers for the vw community ....
would appreciate any documentation/pictures proving otherwise
Cheers Anthony
|
|
|
LUFTMEISTER
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2041
Threads: 119
Registered: July 13th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: BRISVEGAS in a state of flux
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 03:57 PM |
|
|
Volkswagen were very much against any performance upgrades to there stock motors as they considered it shorted the life of their engines. Shit it took
them 20+ yrs to accept multigrade oils for their engines. All hot up gear was by unsanctioned aftermarket suppliers. My2c
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 05:31 PM |
|
|
That's exactly what I'm finding ,
I did read that one dealer did sell judsons for a few months but pressure to cancel there franchise stopped them selling/offering anything
further.....
|
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 07:03 PM |
|
|
how much of an increase did those make over the stock engine?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 07:10 PM |
|
|
No, Australian Volkswagen agents never fitted Judson superchargers. They would have voided VW's Australian warranty. Likewise, Australian dealers did
not fit big bore kits, twin carb kits or any other aftermarket parts. Dealers were only authorised to fit approved Volkswagen accessories, as listed
in the Accessories booklet - radios, mudflaps, carpets, trim, roof racks, spot lamps, seat covers, fire extinguishers etc.
However Judsons were available from various aftermarket suppliers. This is a typical ad from 1960 - Ron Ward Motors was not a Volkswagen dealer.
McCallums were the VW dealer at Strathfield.
Turbos were the same. They were not even available until the 1970s. The Australian company Rymec used to supply turbo kits for '76-'79 Golfs, but
not Beetles.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 07:42 PM |
|
|
currently if you fit a period correct Judson or equivalent to your vw it makes the car void under state and fedral modification of VSI8 and VSB14 and
20% increase in output requiring an engineers.
So im trying find proof of dealership installations (worldwide) to meet the requirements of the above.
Before I outlay the dollars for the equipment, Thanks for your help so far gent's appreciate it
Cheers anthony
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 09:14 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
how much of an increase did those make over the stock engine?
|
I've got an old article on Empi/shorrock superchargers and they are good for 80% increase according to that.
They claim 72hp from a bone stock 40hp 1200.
|
|
|
Canni.
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 471
Threads: 29
Registered: September 21st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 09:21 PM |
|
|
That's interesting, it doesn't comply if you fit one NOW according to that document - I guess you could argue for ones where they were fitted in the
60s/70s etc before the regulation act came out... as it states -
"the requirements of this information sheet are not retrospective. This means that, in general, modifications undertaken in accordance with the
version of VSI8 current at the time of modification is carried out will remain acceptable into the future unless a future version of VSI 8
specifically states otherwise"
I've never tested mine on a dyno to see if it does actually give over 20% output... the advertisements say up to 50% but not sure if that's real
world! I always thought they were offered by dealers but it does make sense that Volkswagen wouldn't be keen on that.
Heidi - 1960 White Beetle
'65 Kiwi Ghia
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 09:57 PM |
|
|
Regulations have changed so "now" a current car or oldie has to comply to the regulations.
You can reach the 20% power figure with N/a and no one would be the wiser but as soon as your forced induction with turbo or supercharger you must
jump through hoops with documentation to keep it legal
If you can prove it was a dealership option then yes you can fit a supercharger or similar with an accredited dyno sheet or factory specs showing no
more than 20% power and it avoids an engineer certificate.........This is why im chasing any documented information
many thanks anthony
|
|
|
Canni.
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 471
Threads: 29
Registered: September 21st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 10:03 PM |
|
|
What are costs and how hard is it to get engineer to sign off? Anyone done it? It's not like it's massive power.. mine will just keep up with my
cousins 1600 as long as there's no hills involved haha.
Heidi - 1960 White Beetle
'65 Kiwi Ghia
|
|
|
 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on November 2nd, 2014 at 10:06 PM |
|
|
Like I do with all my modified cars, newer, larger and forced induction engines. I get them engineered VASS in Victoria, and then the certificate
allows full rego, and insurance. Personally I don't bother with up to 19.99% power increase. Just go for what you really want, do it legally, and
enjoy.
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 07:15 AM |
|
|
it's about 600-1000 dollars for the engineers, brake test, plus the dyno output from certified set of rollers.......
Hellbus "Where / whom do you get your certification done"....?
Im not trying to dodge a bullet ,but I would like to keep the 40hp and the truth is you can double even tripple your torque and stay within the 20%
with the correct setup which is what im wanting to do but under the fedral law "it need's to be a manufacture option" so once again Im chasing
proof of dealer option's
Which means I will consult a engineer today
|
|
|
Canni.
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 471
Threads: 29
Registered: September 21st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 12:19 PM |
|
|
Another option to keep the 40hp would be dual carb kit - not sure if Wolfsburg west is doing an okrasa kit for the 40hp or not. Only skimmed the
regulations but can't really see anything on modifications on adding a carbie apart from something on emissions which due to the age is exempt. It
was one I was considering before adding Judson but at that stage there was no feedback on the kit...
Heidi - 1960 White Beetle
'65 Kiwi Ghia
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 01:10 PM |
|
|
ok here's the thing
6.1
fitting replacement , used or recondition engine, exhaust components , induction, in all cases , if the engine is modified such that resulting power
increase is greater than 20% in must be certified by vass signatory.
This is the problem if twin carbs were offered by the volkswagon dealer it considered a manufacture option it's ok.......if it wasn't then it's
aftermarket and it's not.
I manufacture small turbo kits and supercharger kits for other makes and there all out side this scope and require an engineers due to output.
Im doing a beetle for myself and I'm trying to sail as close to the wind as possible without involving engineers or as stated if I need a vass for
20% why bother just keep going 50,60% as it's the same test's time and piece of paper.
The funny thing is twin carbs are excepted although they fall under the same guidelines , but superchargers and turbos are frowned upon straight away
as a no no..... unless you can provide documentation proving "manufactures options" it's hard during registration
Cheers and thakyou fella's I appreciate all the input I will continue to dig the web for something 
Cheers Anthony
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 01:48 PM |
|
|
found this on the vw Judson register
The fact that Judson were selling their supercharger kits for the VW through VW of America's official dealership network is a little surprising,
given VWs open hostility to any tinkering with their flat 4 engine. It is also surprising that it wasn't until 1960, that VWoA decided to put their
foot down; threatening any official VW dealership with the loss of their franchise if they continued selling accessories not sanctioned as official VW
accessories. VWoA also reminded dealerships, that fitting a Judson Supercharger to a VW would immediately invalidate their warranty
And also a supplier in Australia brand new vw with blower options........
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 07:45 PM |
|
|
With forced induction they immediately apply a 1.5 times on the engine capacity. So a 1200cc force inducted is seen as an 1800cc. The $800 I paid for
the engineers report is the best investment in regards to my car modifications, as it makes it legal. I have been pulled over in two of my cars at a
time when questions were asked about modifications, and having a copy of the report in the glovebox showed what size engine, transmission, wheels,
suspension, track width and that it was checked for noise, pollution and braking. I know it is all still correct, so happy days. And yes one of my
cars is supercharged, and that is part of the engineers report.
|
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 08:30 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Canni.
That's interesting, it doesn't comply if you fit one NOW according to that document - I guess you could argue for ones where they were fitted in the
60s/70s etc before the regulation act came out... as it states -
"the requirements of this information sheet are not retrospective. This means that, in general, modifications undertaken in accordance with the
version of VSI8 current at the time of modification is carried out will remain acceptable into the future unless a future version of VSI 8
specifically states otherwise"
I've never tested mine on a dyno to see if it does actually give over 20% output... the advertisements say up to 50% but not sure if that's real
world! I always thought they were offered by dealers but it does make sense that Volkswagen wouldn't be keen on that.
|
My understanding is 69 and older don't have to comply as they don't fall in to ADR requirement because there were no ADR before 69.
We had this discussion at my car club with the president of the club permit scheme. As the discussion went no engineering cert is needed for 69 and
older but RWC is or will be required real soon. That was the best of his understanding but he did say vicroads/rta do need to clarify the rules better
as you car get away with heaps on technicalities cos of the way the guidelines are worked.
for example.. We got past easy with a LX Torana that the owners and I converted to a later model holden EFI v8.
We complied to the rules by stating the output was actually less than the A9X high performance v8 option and we used a crate engine with service part
number instead of one with an actual engine number. Holden stated that the service number was non car model specific and sold as spare part thus could
be used in older models without needing and the gear from "the donor car" nor a cert.
technicalities like this allowed to pass with no engineering cert. Vicroads said it was ok and its done and dusted.
Another mate of mine did the same with his Monaro HQ.
So given the period of the SCs and if your car is before 69 where ADR and before emission existed, I can't see why its can't be approved without
engineering cert.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 08:39 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by anths
found this on the vw Judson register
The fact that Judson were selling their supercharger kits for the VW through VW of America's official dealership network is a little surprising,
given VWs open hostility to any tinkering with their flat 4 engine. It is also surprising that it wasn't until 1960, that VWoA decided to put their
foot down; threatening any official VW dealership with the loss of their franchise if they continued selling accessories not sanctioned as official VW
accessories. VWoA also reminded dealerships, that fitting a Judson Supercharger to a VW would immediately invalidate their warranty
And also a supplier in Australia brand new vw with blower options........
|
holy moly! 0-100 in 20 odd sec!!
man that must of been some serious boost 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 5th, 2014 at 10:23 AM |
|
|
Ern Abbott was NOT a Volkswagen dealer. He was a VW racer of the day and had his own used car sales and service outlet, but he was not a Volkswagen
dealer.
The Judson VWs he sold were low-mileage used VWs that were already out of warranty. The equivalent in Sydney was Theo Borrer, a VW racer who had his
own workshops and sold Judson kits as well as modifying owners' cars. He was not a VW dealer either.
Judsons were not an authorised Volkswagen accessory in Australia and were not sold or fitted by VW dealers.
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 5th, 2014 at 02:11 PM |
|
|
Doesn't matter you just need dealer proof worldwide as an option and they were sold in America for a short period as such,
Ern Abbott wasn't a volkswagon dealer it's creating a paper trail That yes the chargers were in austaralia and yes they were sold briefly as a
dealer option regardless if they were stopped.......
I have spoken and satisfied the necessary Authorities with the above information cheers for your help chaps
Thankyou anthony
|
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on November 5th, 2014 at 05:20 PM |
|
|
Cool! glad it worked out for you. 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
Canni.
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 471
Threads: 29
Registered: September 21st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 6th, 2014 at 07:56 AM |
|
|
Good news you found what you were looking for! I was curious as I haven't ever been pulled up on it - insurance was no problem to add it on as an
option and the police that have pulled my car over just want to check out the semaphores haha.
Have fun with it... mines been on my daily driver for a few years now and the 36er is now much more capable to keep up with newer cars. If you need
any parts George Folchi in the states is very easy to deal with. Marvel mystery oil can also be sourced from a few aviation supply shops but there are
a few other options you can use.
Heidi - 1960 White Beetle
'65 Kiwi Ghia
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 6th, 2014 at 11:02 AM |
|
|
Cheers guys
thanks Canni I will look into that 
Vlad if you could drop 2 sec off your car that's not a bad effort for the day with just bolt on gear and no engine work except jets and ignition
timing
|
|
|
Camo
A.k.a.: Kev
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1936
Threads: 209
Registered: October 29th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney - Liverpool area
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on November 6th, 2014 at 01:30 PM |
|
|
Anthony,
any chance you can supply a copy of the dealership paperwork or advert, with the Supercharger option you are referring to in America.
Cheers, Kev
|
|
|
anths
Casual Dubber
Posts: 29
Threads: 10
Registered: October 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 6th, 2014 at 02:58 PM |
|
|
G'day mate,
go to the Judson register "look" under history find "sales" in the transcript there is a small reference about the dealer in the
states.......it's not an advert,
I used it to establish a link (paper trail) to an Australian supplier , who offered it on top of the new purchase for 99.10 pounds, although not an
official vw dealer the cars were new and it's on our shores.
Not to different than HDT for holden or FPV for ford.......this then allows you to fit the charger under the regulations by using its age ,adr ,
emission and then using the wording eg "replica" if needed .
Hope this helps
Cheers Anthony
Ps Im S#$T house at posting links
|
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on November 6th, 2014 at 03:40 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by anths
G'day mate,
go to the Judson register "look" under history find "sales" in the transcript there is a small reference about the dealer in the
states.......it's not an advert,
I used it to establish a link (paper trail) to an Australian supplier , who offered it on top of the new purchase for 99.10 pounds, although not an
official vw dealer the cars were new and it's on our shores.
Not to different than HDT for holden or FPV for ford.......this then allows you to fit the charger under the regulations by using its age ,adr ,
emission and then using the wording eg "replica" if needed .
Hope this helps
Cheers Anthony
Ps Im S#$T house at posting links
|
I say Holmes, great work there old chap.
Dr Watson
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
ztnoo
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 730
Threads: 120
Registered: August 14th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Indiana (aka Hoosierland), USA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Dazed & Confused
|
| posted on November 7th, 2014 at 01:47 AM |
|
|
Any one wanting more info might try a search for "Judson Supercharger" at The Samba.com
There seems to be lots of threads and discussions about these which might be helpful.
Regards,
Steve
Fine tuning the proper daily ratio of Maxwell House to Bacardi 151.........
* Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia ! |
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on November 7th, 2014 at 02:45 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by anths
Cheers guys
thanks Canni I will look into that
Vlad if you could drop 2 sec off your car that's not a bad effort for the day with just bolt on gear and no engine work except jets and ignition
timing
|
I just find it funny that even with 50% + more power and how light they were, the cars were stupidly slow by todays standard for a Daihatsu or
something slow sold these days lol.
but back then I guess that was fast.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
