| [ Total Views: 1328 | Total Replies: 25 | Thread Id: 110366 ] |
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 oldturtle22
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| posted on January 4th, 2016 at 07:41 PM |
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36 hp clutch replacement shudder
Ive just replaced the clutch in my 59 Beetle (36hp and splitcase trans) and it shudders worse than the original, but only on hillstarts, even slight
ones. On the flat and downhill it seems fine.
As soon as I slip the clutch on a hillstart both doors nearly rattle off.
New pressure plate, clutch plate, throwout bearing, gland nut, machined both surfaces of the flywheel, new clutch cable and borden tube and reco'd
trans.
It has the type of flywheel where the clutch plate is recessed into the flywheel
I don't think it's getting enough clamping pressure.
Any ideas or tricks I'm missing?
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silver
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| posted on January 4th, 2016 at 08:59 PM |
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engine mounts????
Keeping it real !
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adlbeetle66
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| posted on January 4th, 2016 at 09:28 PM |
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Did you use a pressure plate with a solid ring in the middle?
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bevoracing
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| posted on January 4th, 2016 at 09:32 PM |
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Somehow I’ve always known, that you must always tighten the bolts that hold the pressure plate with a tension wrench, to the factory spec, and
it’s not very tight. If you over tighten them, the clutch shudders, apparently. Personally I’ve never bothered to over tighten them to find
out.
Hope that helps.
Tony
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ragged
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| posted on January 4th, 2016 at 09:40 PM |
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Make sure you have some "bow" in the bowden tube between the chassis and the transmission.
Dave
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psimitar
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| posted on January 4th, 2016 at 09:52 PM |
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5 things I can think of.
1) correct bowden tube bend
2) Correct torque of pressure plate bolts
3) Is the friction plate the sprung type or solid?
4) all gearbox mounting rubbers in good order
5) Correct thrust bearing and pressure plate have been installed
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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 vw54
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| posted on January 5th, 2016 at 06:26 AM |
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look at the above especially the mounts
It will have to come out again did you check the end float on the engine
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oldturtle22
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| posted on January 5th, 2016 at 09:18 AM |
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Thanks for the replies.
Engine mounts are new wolfsburg west rubber mounts.
Its a finger spring style pressure plate
I didnt torque the pressure plate bolts
I think the bowden tube has a slight/gentle bend, i will check and put a pic up.
Looks like its coming out again!
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oldturtle22
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| posted on January 5th, 2016 at 09:19 AM |
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And end float on the engine was good
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bushed
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| posted on January 5th, 2016 at 10:09 AM |
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My 2 cents worth Chris
1 take off the doors....lol
2 check the flimsy bracket is not split from fatigue voiding the Bowden tube tension
(lengthen tube by adding washers btw)
want any vw bits old but like me, Made in Germany!!!
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grumble
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| posted on January 5th, 2016 at 03:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bushed
My 2 cents worth Chris
1 take off the doors....lol
2 check the flimsy bracket is not split from fatigue voiding the Bowden tube tension
(lengthen tube by adding washers btw)
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Try fitting a couple of washers as Chris says (put a cut in them to slip over the cable and slide down onto the bowden spigot)
When the engine is out check that the pressure plate pad is parallell to the flywheel ( we used to adjust the fingers to a standard height)
The other possibility is that the clutch plate may have been distorted during the engine fitment.
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psimitar
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| posted on January 5th, 2016 at 09:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by oldturtle22
Thanks for the replies.
Engine mounts are new wolfsburg west rubber mounts.
Its a finger spring style pressure plate
I didnt torque the pressure plate bolts
I think the bowden tube has a slight/gentle bend, i will check and put a pic up.
Looks like its coming out again!
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So when you say finger spring, do you mean the early style 3 large fingers or the modern style of multiple small spring steel fingers? The modern one
needs to have a landing ring in the centre of the fingers for the thrust bearing to work against. If it don't have this you'll get chatter under
load.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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oldturtle22
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| posted on January 6th, 2016 at 05:18 AM |
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Its the modern type of pressure plate Mike.
Would you have a photo of this landing ring?
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dangerous
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| posted on January 6th, 2016 at 06:57 AM |
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Try some more bend in the Bowden tube with the washers before you pull the engine out.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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grumble
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| posted on January 6th, 2016 at 07:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by grumble
| Quote: | Originally
posted by bushed
My 2 cents worth Chris
1 take off the doors....lol
2 check the flimsy bracket is not split from fatigue voiding the Bowden tube tension
(lengthen tube by adding washers btw)
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Try fitting a couple of washers as Chris says (put a cut in them to slip over the cable and slide down onto the bowden spigot)
When the engine is out check that the pressure plate pad is parallell to the flywheel ( we used to adjust the fingers to a standard height)
The other possibility is that the clutch plate may have been distorted during the engine fitment.
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Does it have a spigot bearing in the flywheel bolt,it may also be a mismatch of the clutch plate/pressure plate. (clutch plate contacting inside of
the pressure plate due to plate height)
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oldturtle22
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| posted on January 6th, 2016 at 03:20 PM |
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Ok will do Dave. I forgot to mention its got 1 x cut washer installed already between the bracket on the gearbox and borden tube. Looks like an og
part from memory
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psimitar
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| posted on January 6th, 2016 at 06:37 PM |
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Here's links for pictures of each clutch type.
Early style clutch for non-guide tube type throw out bearing
Early clutch
And the later type clutch that has a guide tube around the gearbox input shaft that the thrust bearing slides along and keep it parallel to the spring
fingers of the pressure plate
Late clutch
So unless you've swapped out the gearbox then you should be using an early type clutch. 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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oldturtle22
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| posted on January 8th, 2016 at 03:43 PM |
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Mike i cant see the links. Thats Ok though
Dave, the bowden tube is just about straight, I'm pretty sure I checked the length against the old one and it was the same length and it had the same
problem except not so bad. Ill add a few washers first and see how we go!
Cheers
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AA003
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| posted on January 8th, 2016 at 04:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by oldturtle22
Mike i cant see the links. Thats Ok though
Dave, the bowden tube is just about straight, I'm pretty sure I checked the length against the old one and it was the same length and it had the same
problem except not so bad. Ill add a few washers first and see how we go!
Cheers
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From memory you should have a 25mm bend in it. Pack it with washers to get the bend or your clutch will shudder.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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oldturtle22
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| posted on January 8th, 2016 at 06:25 PM |
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ok i shimmed it up and I think its about an inch of bend. Ill confirm though. Either way, its improved but still shudders. I may shim it up once more
with another washer before I remove the engine. Thanks for all replies.
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psimitar
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| posted on January 8th, 2016 at 11:39 PM |
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The links were just txt in AussieDubbers so click of Early Clutch and Late Clutch.
If not then I've uploaded them here too.
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madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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psimitar
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| posted on January 8th, 2016 at 11:40 PM |
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And the late style clutch
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madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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oldturtle22
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| posted on January 9th, 2016 at 09:17 AM |
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Great thanx Mike. Im with you now. It is the early style and Im sure the landing ring was fitted. Ive gotta place another shim to put more tension on
the borden tube and we will see how tgat goes. Not counting my chickens though. Update inbound
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oldturtle22
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| posted on January 9th, 2016 at 03:36 PM |
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Great thanx Mike. Im with you now. It is the early style and Im sure the landing ring was fitted. Ive gotta place another shim to put more tension on
the borden tube and we will see how tgat goes. Not counting my chickens though. Update inbound
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oldturtle22
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| posted on February 1st, 2016 at 12:17 PM |
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I ended up shimming the borden tube to get a bend in it and now I have no shudder. Thanks all.
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psimitar
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| posted on February 1st, 2016 at 12:19 PM |
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Cool. Glad it was a simple fix
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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