| [ Total Views: 2673 | Total Replies: 7 | Thread Id: 484 ] |
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 mattie182
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 posted on September 9th, 2002 at 10:08 AM |
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baal joint vs king pin
Whats better for off road use on a buggy??????
Opions please
Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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vwrallycar
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| posted on September 9th, 2002 at 01:21 PM |
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baal joint vs king pin
mattie the ball joint front end i say is far better than the king pin. less maintenance and disc brakes!!!
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MR930
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| posted on September 9th, 2002 at 04:04 PM |
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King pin is stronger apparently .
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 vw54
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| posted on September 9th, 2002 at 05:24 PM |
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If your concerened about the difference in front ends then you should also be aware that the bulk heads are different for each type of front end so
you must consider the pan as well.
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mattie182
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| posted on September 9th, 2002 at 05:28 PM |
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ball joint vs king pin
I have a king pin front with disc brake conversion.......
It was more of a "curiousity" question really.....
Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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70AutoStik
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| posted on September 12th, 2002 at 01:03 AM |
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The King & Link Pin is a lot stronger, the Ball Joint gives better behaviour throughout travel. If you're doing any serious off-road travel
(we can pull ball joints out of their sockets on $50k 4WDs just driving to minesites around here,) your chassis and suspension will be suffering such
distortion that any advantage of ball-joint front will quickly be lost - that's why the american mags always provide prices on K&LP parts for
buggies. That said, a lot of BJ VWs did a lot of miles round these parts back when there weren't _any_ good roads - and survived; if you
aren't racing, BJ will probably survive.
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Buggy Boyz
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 posted on September 12th, 2002 at 07:58 AM |
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Here we go again :>
K & L can be gussetted so that they are close to indestructable under most conditions, add to that some chrome molley liknk pins and you have a
very strong front end. Which requires more looking after than a ball joint ever will, you need to pull them apart every 12mths and re grease em and
remove the sand. You can jack the front end up about 3" higher than ball joint.
Ball joint will compete with a standard K & L pin front set up no worries at all, they give a smoother ride and need much less attention, you can
not lift them as high but they do come standard with disc brakes.
I preffer the ball joint front ends, but am running a K & L in my buggy , why ? cause it is re-inforced and runs chrome molley link pins, disc
brakes and some other fancy parts, cost wise though it is worth around $1500 and that buys a lot of ball joints..... |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 12th, 2002 at 08:41 AM |
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As Brad said in a funny round about way, a standard BJ and a standard KP are about equal strength-wise. But a standard KP requires more maintenance
and doesn't have factory disc brakes available. You'll bend the standard tie rods and probably bend your spindles before you wreck a BJ or
KP joint.
A BJ can't really be upgraded, except for fitting a type 181 front end where both ball joints are in the same direction so the bumps force the
balls further into their sockets, compared to a new car or standard lower BJ which tries to be seperated over bumps. The type 181 front end is very
strong, and I have been meaning to get one for sometime now.
A KP can be almost endlessly upgraded, but it costs insane amounts of money. The country buggy KP is also a factory beefed up version of the KP
front.
I have run BJ for over 7 yrs offroad and never had a problem (except for a bend tie rod).
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on September 12th, 2002 at 10:12 AM |
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All about height
So it comes back to height really and k & L will go higher, but with an IRS rear end and 31 x 10.5's on it and ball joint front end will sit
about level with 215 / 235 x 75 x 15 rubber. Add kombi CV's to teh rear and clearance your bump stops and the ball joint front end will start to
look low but the K & L can be raised to stay even.
The CB k & L front ends used early kimbo king pins and beetle link pins. From memory they had befier stub axles, so did teh KG though. |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 12th, 2002 at 12:12 PM |
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but when you get to the point of when a KP will go higher than a BJ you will find that the going higher will cause the long tie rod to hit the tunnel,
so the tunnel will need to be modified to clear the tie rod, as brad has done on his buggy.
At the moment my kombi CV rear can go higher than my BJ front. But when offroading, especially on sand, you will usually need to accelerate which
causes the back to squat and the front to lift. So it is more important for the back to be high rather than the front. It is also better to whack the
front torsion beam on the ground than to whack the engine on the ground.
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70AutoStik
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| posted on September 12th, 2002 at 08:23 PM |
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Remember, having the rear higher than the front will reduce your caster. Subtract the angle of the chassis and subtract it from your castor angle -
if it's negative you've really got a problem.
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vwrallycar
A.k.a.: Andrew Rankin
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| posted on September 13th, 2002 at 06:58 PM |
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well i got a bj front end in my beetle and i rally the car, and never had any problems.
by far the better front end
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