| [ Total Views: 1322 | Total Replies: 13 | Thread Id: 76594 ] |
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 General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on May 16th, 2009 at 10:05 AM |
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Towing with a bay?
Why did I put this question in here? Because I think I'd be mad to tow anything too heavy with a stock motor.
What I want to know is can a baywindow tow a caravan?
The biggest ???s besides what motor are can the transmission take it? and what kind of towbar has enough load rating?
What other weak links are there?
This is just a mental exercise so far, but I am faced with an interesting situation. I will explain.
We want to buy a caravan in the extremely near future, possibly putting a deposit today actually.
We currently have two operational vehicles, the bay, and a Ford EA Falcon.
Here is the situation / options
a)The EA would need extensive work to get it up to scratch again for towing.
b)The bay would probably need an engine swap to tow a caravan and quite possibly another towbar, but what else?
c)Purchase another large vehicle and ditch the falcon. This vehicle probably wouldn't get driven too often as I'm not hot on large sedans, and would
use it maybe 90% for local errands etc.
d)Comedy option, new motor for the TN Magna w/slushbox and towing pack. It's motor died last year. Pity, it had a lot of grunt. For some reason the
car was fitted with the transmission intercooler from the towing pack, and maybe other bits but no towbar.
So folks, is option 'b' remotely sane?
And if so, what motor would be adequate? Not looking for something super fancy, just adequate and not too hard to do field repairs on.
The 1975 bay is currently sporting a 1600 transmission, and an 1800 carb'd type4 motor. So it can drag stuff around alright. Not interested in going
fast either, as I never tow above 80km/h in it, and to be honest barely eve drive faster than that in it anyway.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Joel
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| posted on May 16th, 2009 at 11:51 AM |
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i reckon brad holds the record for most weight towed by a bay with a decent engine 
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=40005#pid366029
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 helbus
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| posted on May 16th, 2009 at 01:04 PM |
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Falcon with stiffer suspension and heavy duty towbar. Newer would be better. EL, AU etc Falcon cheap, do it easy and safely.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 16th, 2009 at 01:14 PM |
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... I wouldn't tow any more than a box trailer with a Kombi. Too much stress on everything
Falcon is a good tow car but always keep $1000-1500 in the bank for a reco trans. Two out of three will require reco before 200,000km
Put a s/h engine in the Magna
Pay your debts, CxxT
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on May 16th, 2009 at 06:35 PM |
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I'm just going to answer these in my normal random way, so apologies.
Does a reco falcon tranny really cost that much VWCOOL? Are you talking about an auto or manual btw? The old mule is a manual. Spent a lot of its life
towing, as a result a bit saggy and a bit tired. Drivetrain is looser than... oh better keep this family oriented.
Was even offered a free motor for the Magna. Problem is it was 200km away. Biggest problem was I have no way to manhandle it on my own, including on /
off a trailer and getting the old motor out and new one in.
I have all that sort of stuff for a VW, but not a mitsu.
Should only tow a box trailer... uhh *cough*. I'll keep that in mind. Seems to handle about a tonne pretty well though from what I have experienced
in the past.
In the case of this particular falcon I usually feel like screaming after driving it for 1/2 hour. So even been considering patching it up and getting
full NRMA coverage and let them deal with it when it kicks it. Then replace it with something I hate less. Hell, if I could I'd drag the caravan with
an old mercedes benz but I don't think anyone would let me get away with that!
We put a deposit on the caravan today. A hallmark grand deluxe. Woo! Kind of heavy at about 1600kg, but it has electric brakes and tandem axles so
it's all good. Of course that means I need to fit an electric controller in the car, but that's okay.
Well, no matter what after I do some much needed reinforcing on the rear of the bay I'm going to take it for a quick spin to see how horrible the
caravan feels.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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h
A.k.a.: Towely BuMpEr KING! ILLegal ALIEN on a roadtrip
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| posted on May 16th, 2009 at 07:17 PM |
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towing anything in a bay = cracked and a lovely shade of blue fly wheel..
get a modern hack cheap n flog the crap outta that
keep ya beloved ride in good order in trash a modern miracle
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Andy
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| posted on May 16th, 2009 at 10:10 PM |
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Like anything there's possible, sensible and legal.
I don't have LEGAL info easily at hand, but I think it's under ~1200kg braked (does anyone have real info?)
SENSIBLE, on Bay kombi with stock air cooled motor, probalby stay under 1000kg and keep speeds low. Get a vacuum gauge and drive by the dial, it'll
save your heads and GB.
POSSIBLE, I would never try and outdo Brad, but I have towed a lot differnet things with a stock 2L bus, a number over 2T, braked trailer of course.
In a stock bus travel SLOW and take everything very easy. I have also never done this for long distances (like interstate!!) either. I wouldn't
recomend it for travelling, and don't have an accident or get caught!!! (back to legal issues)
I would consider the bay does it comfortably, but any speed above the pushy I normally get around on seems fast to me 
The next issue with a caravan is wind, an empty stock kombi is quite light ~1300kg, so will be easily pushed around by a side wind on a caravan.
If the body/chassis is sound and you have a good towbar it won;t fall apart in a hurry.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on May 17th, 2009 at 09:06 AM |
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Had clutch slipping probs, h? The cooked flywheel sounds nasty and kind of scary. Thankfully nothing like that has happened... yet.
in '03 I towed my ex-scouts enclosed offroad box trailer interstate. Moving house. The trailer was loaded inside, and we fitted it with plate steel
tabs on the top which we used to tie down a lot more stuff. Towed it sort of okay. The motor was a bit sick. Didn't discover how sick until later.
Wouldn't have even been running properly on two cylinders and the carbs were out of whack. Still can't believe it made it.
Don't worry. I'm taking the answer here as a "Possibly, but you really shouldn't". That's the sort of answer I was looking for.
Andy, 99% of the chassis is straight and sound. I do need to do a little repair work around the bumper mount holes though. There is some previous
damage and some kind of weird repair job which I intend to correct with some thickish plate and a mig.
The towbar could use replacing too. Unless, do towbar making places do things like replacing a tongue mount? It's had a chunk cut out of it to
accomodate the exhaust and had the tongue welded on permanently as a result. Wouldn't break, but probably not legal.
Well then, for towing slightly smaller loads what would a relatively simple conversion be? I think I've said it previously I love my type4 but I
don't trust it. Too many failures. I was thinking something simple like an ea81. Bit of a power gain, still a simple motor, and parts more readily
available. After doing finances I realised that my bay will once again have to be my daily driver, until it falls to bits anyway so I might as well
enjoy it. We'd be nuts to have four registered cars between us. Although I used to have three when it was just me... but that's me.
For towing the caravan I have started to look at cheap but servicable 4x4s. Going for bugger all these days. Probably fuel prices. But that's okay as
we only want it for towing anyway.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 17th, 2009 at 01:10 PM |
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Plenty of Pajeros and Pathfinders around for $5K - but may only tow 1500kg
Pay your debts, CxxT
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h
A.k.a.: Towely BuMpEr KING! ILLegal ALIEN on a roadtrip
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| posted on May 17th, 2009 at 01:59 PM |
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not me personally but when i brought a 75 bay camper many moons ago it needed a new clutch so we ripped out the mtr n pulled the plate off n we found
the blue cracked horror fly wheel that needed replacing hense the towing of the thing was a no goer..
if you love your ride of course IMO
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helbus
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| posted on May 17th, 2009 at 08:44 PM |
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I towed about 1200kg of house bricks for about 10km in a box trailer behind our EJ22 powered Bay, and even with double the power of a VW engine, it
was not something I would do for any longer time.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on May 18th, 2009 at 10:40 AM |
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Seems like people have different towing experiences to me.
VWCOOL. do you know if that is for braked mass?
There are also plenty of landcruisers and such cheap, and unless I look locally, they can be had for maybe $1500.
Back to what I said before though, would something like an ea81 give a worthwhile power boost? I mean it's the same capacity, and nearly the same
degree of simplicity and I wouldn't be forced into spending ages trying to source parts from hundreds of kilometers away.
I couldn't find figures on an unmodified motor around. No I don't have my heart set on it. It's just a nice simple fairly common motor. Is it wrong
I like pushrods?
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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GeorgeL
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| posted on May 27th, 2009 at 09:16 AM |
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The transmission doesn't care whether the extra weight is on board or towed behind. Seeing as how a bus is generally rated to carry 2000 pounds it
seems that it should be able to tow that amount with a proper hitch.
However, having had 2000 pounds in my bus at one time I know that there is no way I'd want to tow that much!
As far as blue flywheels, that comes from excessive slipping. If you don't slip the clutch it won't overheat.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 27th, 2009 at 11:31 AM |
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yeah GF that's braked mass determined by the vehicle manufacturer based on cooling system/gearbox/exhaust durability etc etc
Any more than 750kg and its law to have brakes, not a recommendation. Any more than the vehicle manufacturer's limit and you're in legal strife,
too
Keep in mind, some vehicles claim 2000, 3000 or more kg but are a terror to drive with just half that
Pay your debts, CxxT
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