| [ Total Views: 1376 | Total Replies: 14 | Thread Id: 80501 ] |
|
|
 Uber Kafer
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 414
Threads: 50
Registered: November 12th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Bunbury (BunVegas) WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Need a bigger shed..
|
| posted on November 27th, 2009 at 05:07 PM |
|
|
EFI - Whats the latest developments?
I have been gathering up air cooled EFI bits n pieces as I have several projects happening. I have got a 2 litre kmbi engine which I plan to upright
convert into a L Bug. EFI appeals to me as I have an extensive techo background and all the bits are familiar to me. I have read all the EFI threads
on this site but they are not that recent. So I am particularly interested to know if people have gravitated towards any particular ECU's or Air Flow
Meters that can be retrofitted to beetle and kombi systems to produce a smarter more tune-able hybrid. Any new leads? Any success stories?
|
|
|
mackaymanx
A.k.a.: Brent
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1611
Threads: 97
Registered: January 12th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Mackay.QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Brad'ed Off 
|
| posted on November 28th, 2009 at 05:20 PM |
|
|
Been working on one, but not ready for install yet.
1600 type 1 motor.
Mexi Throttle body, Plenum, Manifolds and Fuel Rails
Magna Dizzy(modified), Ignition Coil and Ignition Module
Hyundai Injectors, IAT sensor and Idle Valve(3 wire PWM)
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
 |
|
|
mackaymanx
A.k.a.: Brent
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1611
Threads: 97
Registered: January 12th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Mackay.QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Brad'ed Off
|
| posted on November 29th, 2009 at 11:12 AM |
|
|
What I have so far.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
|
|
|
Uber Kafer
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 414
Threads: 50
Registered: November 12th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Bunbury (BunVegas) WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Need a bigger shed..
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 11:13 AM |
|
|
Cool, looks extremely interesting. Hybrid is the way to go I think, use as much of the VW parts as possible but control it with a modern ECU. That
mexican EFI stuff solves nearly all of the problems that are impossible to fabricate in the average shed.
So I have several questions now,
Whats required to adapt the Magna dizzy to plug into the type 1 case?
How did you source the mex VW bits?
Whats in the plastic bag?
And what is the main attraction to choose the LINK unit?
At this end I have most of the gear to run our 2 litre Vanagon engine, just got an ECU yesterday, but still missing an airflow meter. Plan is to get
it running with stock gear then transplant in more modern key components till I'm happy. I also want to EFI a type 1, and previously I expected the
inlet runners to be the hardest part, but that mex VW single throttle body set-up is the way to go, but the alternator stand is unique to that set-up
as well. I'm on a steep learning curve here, from what I understand with the orginal Jetronic systems all the injectors fire every time, if thats
the case ( and feel free to correct me someone) does that mean the stock injectors are only designed to flow a smaller amount of fuel and wont be
capable of handling the full-charge flow required by sequential injection, ie only inject a full charge when that cylinder is on the intake stroke.??
|
|
|
 vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 12:15 PM |
|
|
take your pick of ECUs theres plenty of brand
but get one that you know someone can adjust for you or learn it yrself
|
|
|
mackaymanx
A.k.a.: Brent
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1611
Threads: 97
Registered: January 12th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Mackay.QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Brad'ed Off
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 12:35 PM |
|
|
The Magna dizzy needs to be disassembled, the shaft shortened and the housing machined back. I can do a how to if you like.
I sourced the Mexi bits here off AVD from yasdnil01, but there are two vendor on shoptalkforums and thesamba selling them.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=106354&sid=c3ce85f9...
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=123149&highlight=
Whats in the plastic bag? Fuel rails
The attraction of the Link ECU is that it was free(only on loan)
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
|
|
|
Uber Kafer
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 414
Threads: 50
Registered: November 12th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Bunbury (BunVegas) WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Need a bigger shed..
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 12:36 PM |
|
|
Yeah, thats a pretty sexy set-up, defintely one of the best I've seen. Interesting thing is that the CB Performance gear for the single throttle
body is so close to the performance of their own dual throttle body set-up that it's pretty hard to justify the dual throttle body.
So a single throttle body like this is a damn good compromise. Except for top end, high flow, max hp, a single throttle body EFI system can provide a
very driveable set-up that will get max hp out of all the mechanical bits.
|
|
|
Uber Kafer
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 414
Threads: 50
Registered: November 12th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Bunbury (BunVegas) WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Need a bigger shed..
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 12:38 PM |
|
|
thanks for the response mackaymanx, I will checkout those links.
|
|
|
ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1083
Threads: 74
Registered: October 1st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast, Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Just cured my shed envy! 
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 12:39 PM |
|
|
yeah - the thread that I did is quite old now but the info is still correct.
The manifold is the hardest part to sort out (or, at least, it was for me) - much cutting and welding was required to mod a manifold to fit both the
Type I and Type IV engines that my brother and I EFIed...
Most EFI parts are interchangeable, so speak to the businesses that specialise in repairing and servicing EFI systems for the best brands and models
of injectors and sensors...I'm now using Ford Falcon injectors in my 'mainly GM' based EFI system because they are more reliable than the GM ones
(and have the same flow rate)
As mentioned above, the ECU you choose should either be something that you are comfortable tuning yourself, or something that you can easily find
someone to tune for you - no point in having an ECU that you can't figure out and that no-one will touch.
Decide what you want the EFI system to achieve (easy and simple/as many factory features as possible/self tuning/boost capable/air conditioner
control/multi map/etc) and then pick an ECU that ticks as many boxes as possible - thats the way I did it. Also consider after sales service, as
it's not impossible for things to go wrong with an ECU. Unfortunately, asking 'which one is best' will result in as many different suggestions as
you get replies!
Whatever your decision, replacing your antique carbies with a properly set-up EFI system will improve the way your car drives beyond your
expectations.
Good luck with your quest - it's worth it!
R 
|
|
|
mackaymanx
A.k.a.: Brent
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1611
Threads: 97
Registered: January 12th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Mackay.QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Brad'ed Off
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 12:53 PM |
|
|
I personally am quite interested in the MegaSquirt ECUs. There seems to be a mountain of information on this system out there.
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
|
|
|
type3lover
A.k.a.: The Smashed Repairer
Insano Dub Head
in the garage...
Posts: 796
Threads: 90
Registered: February 2nd, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: stoked
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 02:57 PM |
|
|
My notch has a megasquirt II ecu running the "extra"code. Although it's not on the streets yet it is running well and I've only scratched the
surface with tuning.
It does require a bit of technical aptitude, hours and hours of research and the ability to troubleshoot when things don't work first time around and
this would put a lot of people off.
The configuration possibilities are endless though!
Right now on the notch I'm using modified type 3 inlet runners with bosch injectors (disc type not pintle) from a late model commodore, a modified
type 3 plenum with a camira throttle body (with TPS and 4 wire IAC stepper), ford EDIS distributorless ignition with a trigger wheel and VR sensor on
the type 3 fan pulley, VL turbo efi pump, GM IAT sensor, GM "coolant" temp sensor, hyundai coil packs, innovate lc-1 wideband controller, home made
wiring harness and the list goes on. The engine is turbocharged and boost can will be controlled by megasquirt, as well as water intercooler pump, oil
cooler fan etc. I'm looking forward to experimenting with the launch mode too :-)
Can be run in open loop or closed with EGO based fuel correction and lean cruise if I had a knock sensor...which I think is hard to do on "noisy"
aircooled engines.
I've made some mistakes along the way but it's been a real buzz! More features than many high end aftermarket ECU's and a fraction of the price but
you have to be prepared to invest a lot of time learning how it all works to succeed with MS.
.
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 03:10 PM |
|
|
heres a link to my set up been driving it for 2 years now now problems at all
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099
very drivable using the microtek ECU and magna dissy VL pump
NO surge tank had it on a very tight track last sunday no surge or problems even on 180 deg turns
the main thing is to use the KISS method and mount all the hard ware properly with good brackets etc etc
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 03:16 PM |
|
|
4 got to add once again if i was buying a ECU from scratch
i would spend the extraa funds and get Autronic
|
|
|
Uber Kafer
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 414
Threads: 50
Registered: November 12th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Bunbury (BunVegas) WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Need a bigger shed..
|
| posted on December 1st, 2009 at 04:05 PM |
|
|
Theres a good point from VW54. I think for the ideal 'Hybrid System' it would have to do without a surge tank. This would be the 'KISS'
principal in practice because the original Jetronic systems worked on just one pump to deliver fuel and only had a return line to the tank from the
fuel pressure regulator. Anything more than the addition of one pump and a return line will be more than the average enthusiastic amateur can manage,
maybe.
|
|
|
ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1083
Threads: 74
Registered: October 1st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast, Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Just cured my shed envy!
|
| posted on December 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
Theres a good point from VW54. I think for the ideal 'Hybrid System' it would have to do without a surge tank. This would be the 'KISS'
principal in practice because the original Jetronic systems worked on just one pump to deliver fuel and only had a return line to the tank from the
fuel pressure regulator. Anything more than the addition of one pump and a return line will be more than the average enthusiastic amateur can manage,
maybe.
|
The Jetronic systems only had one pump because there was a swirl pot in the bottom of the fuel tank on factory EFI cars (a swirl pot is an
in-fuel-tank surge tank). I have an external surge tank on my set-ups and can use every last drop in the fuel tank before I suffer from fuel supply
problems - having said that I have heard many other EFI converts say that they are not running an kind of surge tank and have never had a problem....
your decision I suppose.
I kinda figured that I would rather have a perfectly constant supply of fuel to the EFI pump as these types of pumps don't last very long if they run
dry - and the replacement pumps are not cheap either!
R
|
|
|
