| [ Total Views: 1150 | Total Replies: 17 | Thread Id: 88286 ] |
|
|
 mactaylor
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1005
Threads: 54
Registered: August 14th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Albury
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: even my dog is german
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 08:21 AM |
|
|
what does yor circuit racer weigh?
as it states whats a "normal" circuit car with cage weigh?
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
|
|
|
johny rotten
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 366
Threads: 5
Registered: April 6th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 08:48 AM |
|
|
800 ish kilos street car (no cage)
just as long as I don't sit in it 
|
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 08:55 AM |
|
|
No.8 Beetle WAS 720Kg, plus driver. A lot more now with roll cage, and it is noticeably slower.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 09:04 AM |
|
|
My Hillclimb car was 830kg (WSID scales) plus my weight of 100KG !!!
|
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 02:07 PM |
|
|
Heh - TOO MUCH !!!
Two famous Colin Chapman (founder of Lotus) quotes:
- To add speed, add lightness.
- Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.
From what I've heard 800-850kg is about the norm for a BJ IRS car.... if you can get under that you'll be doing VERY well.
Obviously K+L and Swinger would be a little bit lighter to start with.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
mactaylor
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1005
Threads: 54
Registered: August 14th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Albury
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: even my dog is german
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 02:10 PM |
|
|
craig what have you removed from your hc bug? my 76 has been stripped within an inch of its life with a ten point cage am keen to find out what it
weighs theres not much left except about 18 lms of 44.45 cds!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
|
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 02:31 PM |
|
|
Extra weight is particularly harmful to a hillclimb car. It takes energy to lift an object, therefore - in theory - if two cars have identical
power/weight ratios, and identical drag race times, the lighter of the two will be quicker up a hill!
Looks like K&L&SA is the way to go.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
mactaylor
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1005
Threads: 54
Registered: August 14th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Albury
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: even my dog is german
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 02:47 PM |
|
|
good point but why are all the fast vw times set by bj/irs!!!!!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
|
|
|
TheMiniMan
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 849
Threads: 162
Registered: August 5th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbainia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: swings
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 04:30 PM |
|
|
280kgs :-)
true :-)
|
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 07:37 PM |
|
|
Hmmm... not so sure Greg.
My physics is a bit rusty, but here goes:
Power = Work / Time
Work = Force * Distance
Force = Mass * Acceleration
Expanding you get:
Power = Mass * (Accel Gravity + Aero Drag) * Distance / Time
- or -
Power / Mass = (Accel Gravity + Aero drag) * Distance / Time
So if two cars have exactly the same Power/Weight ratio, you can substitute for Power / Mass
(Accel Gravity + Aero Drag 1) * Distance 1 / Time 1 = (Accel Gravity + Aero drag 2) * Distance 2 / Time 2
But gravity is a constant... so the two times become a function of Aero Drag and Distance (ie the lines taken).
Nothing at all about weight !!!
(oh and we all know that BJ IRS beetles let you take better lines)
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 07:57 PM |
|
|
A lot of fancy stuff there, Dave, but can you explain
why truckies prefer to park at the top of a hill - or at least on the level - as it means less effort to get moving again?
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 09:03 PM |
|
|
Heh heh... that's easy.
Have you ever tried to climb into a truck that's parked facing up hill ??? The door always tries to slam shut on you !!!
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 09:20 PM |
|
|
Not on a Tempo Matador they don't !
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2011 at 10:03 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
craig what have you removed from your hc bug? my 76 has been stripped within an inch of its life with a ten point cage am keen to find out what it
weighs theres not much left except about 18 lms of 44.45 cds!
|
It had the back seat and carpets removed.....BUT, it then had a 6 point cage, swaybars, front end stiffeners, quaife diff, twin carbs and bracing
added !!!
My car was HEAVY, but as I was winning i didnt really care ! Different case now as the beetles are lighter, so the lighter your car the better
|
|
|
hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
Veteran Volks Folk
Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132mph street tyres
Posts: 2151
Threads: 82
Registered: May 9th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: unanderra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: hypo cruis'n
|
| posted on January 24th, 2011 at 07:53 AM |
|
|
WPVW sports sedan
in 1999 I did a lot of homework and research into how I could lighten the WPVW sports sedan to prepare it for the 2000 NSW & Australian Hillclimb
championships . I cut out all the double panels (except door pillars) , fitted lexcen to all windows , cut passenger seat runner from pan , even went
to the extent of purchasing 100 aluminum bolts which were all used in the sports sedan with a total saving of 750grams . The most important
improvement was the alloy super-lite race wheels , 15x10's up front & 16x11's at the rear weighing in at just 6 kilos per rim .
As it had been logbooked by CAMS prior to december 1998 it is approved with an aluminum cage , so in 2000 I contested and won both the NSW &
Australian hillclimb championships in the sports sedan 2001-3000 class with a weight of 640kg . Add to that my weight and the race weight was 740kg ,
with 181bhp @ the wheels .
In 2002 rule changes were implemented for sports sedans and I had to add 160kg to the WPVW sports sedan to comply with the 2842ml engine . I did this
by removing the 6-point aluminum cage and manufacturing a full steel cage from bumper to bumper . I borrowed a set of V8 supercar digital scales and
relocated battery , dry-sump oil tank etc to get my corner weights as close to perfect as possible with the rear engined car .
I did acheive the desired results and the WPVW sports sedan had increased in weight to 805kg . I raced in this format for only 4 race meetings and
then competed at the 2003 Australian hillclimb championships , were I found that the rule changes were not being followed by anyone in the sports
sedan category . I came 2nd (by 0.2sec)to a Ford Anglia powered by a mazda rotary and the Anglia had no roll-cage at all fitted (just a single
rollover hoop) and was clearly 200+ kg lighter than my car .
I returned home from the Australians in 2003 , cut the entire cage from the sports sedan ( which I still have stored) and fitted a full aluminum cage
from bumper to bumper . I still made the WPVW sports sedan legal by reducing the engine size to 2440ml (still the same engine as being used now) and
making it comply with a weight of 700kg . With the driver 800kg ...
and that is how it still stands today
Team 
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
|
|
|
colin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 984
Threads: 82
Registered: March 7th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Tamworth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 24th, 2011 at 08:46 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
good point but why are all the fast vw times set by bj/irs!!!!!
|
err hello!
I politely beg to differ.
Where your car can be adversely affected by weight, a good driver will be quick in a 700kg or a 800kg car.
Cheers Col
|
|
|
BiX
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2499
Threads: 154
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 24th, 2011 at 11:54 AM |
|
|
Sides quote of Chapman was good, as any lower weight means you can brake later into a corner and corner faster, the car will be better on its tires.
Its intersting in the tarmac rally's drivers want the lightest nav possible, but then are 15kg overweight thenselves!
THe L bug should be fully stripped for the first time later this year (always just been rear seat and thats it), will be interesting to see what I can
get it down to before starting on the other stuff like alloy's rather than steel wheels, cage add etc
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
|
|
|
hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
Veteran Volks Folk
Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132mph street tyres
Posts: 2151
Threads: 82
Registered: May 9th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: unanderra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: hypo cruis'n
|
| posted on January 27th, 2011 at 07:24 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
good point but why are all the fast vw times set by bj/irs!!!!!
|
the WPVW sports sedan is still swing-axle and normally aspirated with 2 webers ...and lapped in 1min 08 secs , I dont recall seeing any IRS beetles
going quicker around Wakefield at the VW nationals supersprint last year ....
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
|
|
|
