| [ Total Views: 1662 | Total Replies: 24 | Thread Id: 92748 ] |
|
|
 bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on September 20th, 2011 at 12:37 PM |
|
|
New Carbie woes - Accelerator pump discharge tube disappeared!
I got tired of poor cold running over winter and the old 34PICT-3 on Olive had miles of throttle-shaft play and she idled erratically. Also the
needle and seat had given up and she sometimes flooded.
So I decided to give Olive a treat and bought one of those chinese knock-off carbies on ebay for less than $150 delivered to my door.
The carby fitted okay. There was an extra vacuum port, which I capped off, otherwise everything looked good.
Olive now starts every time, idles nicely, never cuts out. So far so good except...
I have a massive hesitation when I floor the throttle. If I rev it a couple of times and keep my foot down then run through the gears accelerating
hard, she is brisk, perhaps the best she has ever run. But if I'm cruising along for a few seconds and then put my foot down in any gear, then this
hesitation occurs. Same if I slow for a roundabout or a corner.
When the hesitation occurs I also hear a backfire "pop". Not sure if it's through the exhaust or carb. No signs of black smoke behind me. This
happens if I try half-throttle or full throttle.
I have not changed any other parts or adjustments at all, not timing, valve adjustments etc. I checked and reset all that two months ago.
My thoughts are:
- Accelerator pump not working properly in new carb.
- Old carb was flooding, perhaps fuel pump supplying too much pressure (stock pump). I did replace the gaskets on the pump a few months ago. But, if
the pressure was too much, wouldn't it run rich at idle and smoke black fumes?
- Differing jets between old and new carbs?
Any advice appreciated. 
Thanks,
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
Pollywaffle
A.k.a.: Ben
Officially Full-On Dubber
.:Ben:.
Posts: 385
Threads: 20
Registered: August 25th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 20th, 2011 at 01:30 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by bnicho
There was an extra vacuum port, which I capped off, otherwise everything looked good.
|
I'm definitely no expert, but doesn't the second vacuum port have to be connected to the other side of the carby? That could be causing the "flat
spot" in acceleration.
|
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on September 20th, 2011 at 01:43 PM |
|
|
First thought - accelerator pump not deliving enough of a shot of fuel... most likely just needs adjusting.
Second thought - what dizzy are you running... the stock one with vacuum advance or something else ??? Could be a case of the now infamous "009
flatspot"....
Since you say it runs nicely everywhere else I don't think it'll be jetting or flooding.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on September 20th, 2011 at 02:09 PM |
|
|
Hi,
The dizzy is a 1yo SVDA with electronic ignition, not a 009. I'm hoping it's as simple as adjusting the accelerator pump.
Cheers,
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on September 23rd, 2011 at 09:31 PM |
|
|
I adjusted the accelerator pump today (so it pumped earlier) and the problem got worse.
I did find that fuel was literally dripping off the rear carby stud at idle. So it does seem likely it's too much fuel pressure. There also seems
to be fuel oozing out ofg the fuel pump top cover.
Maybe fuel is pooling on the throttle disc and dumping in when the throttle is floored, making it flood.
Cheers,
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on September 24th, 2011 at 10:23 PM |
|
|
Today I removed the fuel pump and put another gasket on it to reduce the pressure. This made no difference to the new carb's performance. In sheer
desperation I refitted the old carb and it's now running fine.
So now I suppose I'm going through the whole return or replace circus. I've already sent the seller a message via eBay.
Cheers,
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
narumi
Seriously Crusin Dubber
I'll do it tomorrow
Posts: 138
Threads: 8
Registered: August 24th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide, SA
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Red
|
| posted on September 24th, 2011 at 11:56 PM |
|
|
maybe blow the air through the fuel inlet on the carby
could just be a grain of dirt making needle not seated properly
|
|
|
OZ Towdster
A.k.a.: Andrew Westwood
Custom Title Time!
Keen to finish some projects
Posts: 1921
Threads: 132
Registered: December 7th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Alexandra Hills Brisbane QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Having fun in our great land
|
| posted on September 25th, 2011 at 07:27 AM |
|
|
Check for an air leak at either the manifolds to heads or the rubber bellows , as if leaking at any point between the carby and the head you will have
this problem .
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
|
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on September 27th, 2011 at 08:35 AM |
|
|
There are no air leaks, I've checked the bellows and all vacuum lines and sparyed WD40 around the carb base.
I've bought a new carburettor to bolt on and go, not mess around with fault finding and rebuilding it. As soon as I remove the top cover the
warranty would be void anyway. Besides, if I'm going to go to that hassle I might as well rebush and rebuild my old Solex. Apart from idle and cold
starting it runs better with that fitted than this new POS.
I'm returning the carb to the seller for a refund. I'll either rebuild my Solex or source a similar carburettor locally.
Cheers,
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
annosL
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 378
Threads: 43
Registered: December 28th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: albany
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: need to win lotto
|
| posted on September 27th, 2011 at 02:06 PM |
|
|
I went through the same saga with my L, eventually rebuilt a good solex out of three old ones using the least worn body and it's not perfect but
heaps better than the new clone which now sits shiny and forlornly in it's box. Have found Rob and Daves tech site a great help in tuning the sucker
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on September 27th, 2011 at 03:54 PM |
|
|
Just compare the main jet size on the new carb to the old one and even try swapping the main jets.
I fitted one of those brosal/bocar repoop carbs to a mates S bug a few years back and the new one had a killer flat spot hoofing it about
1500-2000rpm,
I had to open up the main jet abit, new one was a bit lean out of the box but this engine did have extractors though.
Good as gold after that.
|
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on September 28th, 2011 at 01:48 PM |
|
|
Joel, your description does sound similar to what I experienced with this carb. But everything on my engine is stock as far as I know, except the
dizzy.
The seller is yet to give me an address to return the carb, so I might end up neg-repping him and keeping it.
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
ian.mezz
Wolfsburg Elder
I never said, I could write or spell
Posts: 3913
Threads: 280
Registered: September 11th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on September 28th, 2011 at 02:34 PM |
|
|
give stan a call , i think he knows a few tricks about those carbys
http://www.stanpobjoy.com.au/#!contact
|
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on October 3rd, 2011 at 07:45 AM |
|
|
OK, so the seller isn't a bad egg after all. Refunded me the cost of the carb, so I'm only down for the shipping cost and I have a shiny new
paperweight.
I'll try swapping the main jet across fromthe old carb to the new and see if that works.
I'd feel guilty ringing Stan Pobjoy and asking him, since I didn't buy the carb off him.
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on April 29th, 2012 at 06:27 PM |
|
|
New Carbie woes - Accelerator pump discharge tube disappeared!
I decided I had some spare time to have a look at this carby again today.
I pulled the old worn carb off and swapped all the jets across to the new Chinese carb. I put the new carb on the car and it started and idled
without difficulty. But, if you depressed the throttle rapidly (ie: stomped on it) the engine would backfire through the carb or even stall. Same
problem as before.
I took the top off the float bowl on the new carb looking for answers. It was then that I nociced that the accelerator pump discharge tube was
slightly flattened or crimped on one of the bends. Working the accelerator pump I realised that the crimp was reducing the flow through the tube.
This was resulting in the lean-out problem when the throttle was rapidly depressed.
I tried the obvious solution and swapped in the accelerator pump discharge tube from the old carb. It seemed to fit okay. I did notice the bends
were a different shape but thought nothing of it.
I bolted it all back together and the lean-out problem seemed to be cured. You could floor it from idle and it would not backfire or stall.
So I drove her up the street. In first gear she felt good. I changed into second and she cut out! I couldn't get her restarted so I pushed her the
50m or so back home.
I pulled the air cleaner off and I could see the problem straight away. The accelerator pump discharge tube had come out and disappeared down the
intake. The float bowl cover was a different shape on the new carb and it did not retain the old discharge tube in place. Viola, one ingested
discharge tube.
I raced up to super-crap-auto and bought a boroscope so I could try and find the missing discharge tube. Alas, I could not see it anywhere in the
intake manifold. I can only hope it has lodged behind an intake valve or something rather than gone into a bore. Now I have the fun task of removing
the intake manifold and seeing what I can find.
Then once that is sorted I have to buy a new carb. I'm sure the old discharge tube is going to be damaged beyond reuse and the new discharge tube is
obviously faulty. Maybe time for twin carbs???
Olive is now parked and I have taken my MR2 off the sub-bench.
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
 Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12757
Threads: 732
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 29th, 2012 at 07:23 PM |
|
|
ahhh the joys of Chinese carbs 
Either get a 34 Pict rebuilt or go weber/dells
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on April 29th, 2012 at 08:44 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by bnicho
I decided I had some spare time to have a look at this carby again today.
I pulled the old worn carb off and swapped all the jets across to the new Chinese carb. I put the new carb on the car and it started and idled
without difficulty. But, if you depressed the throttle rapidly (ie: stomped on it) the engine would backfire through the carb or even stall. Same
problem as before.
I took the top off the float bowl on the new carb looking for answers. It was then that I nociced that the accelerator pump discharge tube was
slightly flattened or crimped on one of the bends. Working the accelerator pump I realised that the crimp was reducing the flow through the tube.
This was resulting in the lean-out problem when the throttle was rapidly depressed.
I tried the obvious solution and swapped in the accelerator pump discharge tube from the old carb. It seemed to fit okay. I did notice the bends
were a different shape but thought nothing of it.
I bolted it all back together and the lean-out problem seemed to be cured. You could floor it from idle and it would not backfire or stall.
So I drove her up the street. In first gear she felt good. I changed into second and she cut out! I couldn't get her restarted so I pushed her the
50m or so back home.
I pulled the air cleaner off and I could see the problem straight away. The accelerator pump discharge tube had come out and disappeared down the
intake. The float bowl cover was a different shape on the new carb and it did not retain the old discharge tube in place. Viola, one ingested
discharge tube.
I raced up to super-crap-auto and bought a boroscope so I could try and find the missing discharge tube. Alas, I could not see it anywhere in the
intake manifold. I can only hope it has lodged behind an intake valve or something rather than gone into a bore. Now I have the fun task of removing
the intake manifold and seeing what I can find.
Then once that is sorted I have to buy a new carb. I'm sure the old discharge tube is going to be damaged beyond reuse and the new discharge tube is
obviously faulty. Maybe time for twin carbs???
Olive is now parked and I have taken my MR2 off the sub-bench.
|
You could get another discharge tube from another solex carby and maybe glue it in??
a lot of these have ended up in mufflers etc..
they get compressed and chewed up badly...
good thing they are a soft metal..
an accelerator pump is necessary as You have found out...
I had a blocked one in My carby and it would start and idle
OK and rev slightly... but I could never ever drive it out of My carport.. lol
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
Lucky Phil
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 480
Threads: 16
Registered: August 1st, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide SA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: I'm a legend in my own lunchtime!
|
| posted on April 30th, 2012 at 09:44 PM |
|
|
My bet is the discharge tube has gone through the engine like pork through a goose.
I doubt any damage has been done.
|
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on May 1st, 2012 at 09:05 AM |
|
|
I hope so Phil.
It may be a fruitless search but I'd like to know it's either gone safely into the exhaust or extract it. But I admit the though of bunging another
carb on and seeing what happens has occurred to me.
I had an air cleaner stud from the top of a DGV weber escape into a Gemini engine once. I ended up taking off the intake manfold at the side of
Cowpasture Rd in Sydney. Quite a miserable experience. Fortunately it lodged behind an inlet valve and did not damage anything.
I've ordered a reconditioned GERMAN 34 PICT 3 from an American guy on The Samba.
Question: Can I remove the centre part of the intake manfold without removing the end pieces on a dual port 1600? Or is it easier to simply remove
and replace the end pieces one by one? Either way I'll fit new rubbers and gaskets to anything I disturb.
Cheers,
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on May 1st, 2012 at 06:12 PM |
|
|
well, hopefully, it may have caught on the rubber boot...
I presume You can take the middle bit out OK.. ????
but have never done one...
Maybe slide one way then the other???
One problem You may have...
If You find the accelerator pump nozzle sitting over a valve
You cannot get it out with a Magnet... as they are brass or copper... so they are soft when scrunched with a valve... lol
Best of luck...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
grumble
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2668
Threads: 53
Registered: June 10th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Taree
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy all the time
|
| posted on May 1st, 2012 at 06:42 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Lucky Phil
My bet is the discharge tube has gone through the engine like pork through a goose.
I doubt any damage has been done.
|
I agree they go in the piston hits them and demolishes them and goes out the exhaust,this has been fairly common on the T4 engines in the bay
kombi's. The discharge nozzles are available from most vw suppliers.
I have not seen many of those chinese carbs work successfully and they usually end uo in the bin.Good luck.
|
|
|
Lucky Phil
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 480
Threads: 16
Registered: August 1st, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide SA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: I'm a legend in my own lunchtime!
|
| posted on May 1st, 2012 at 07:29 PM |
|
|
Not all of these new carbies are bad. Some are better than others.
I guess the old saw "you get what you pay for" can be applied.
As for getting the manifold centre out, forget it if you have an alternator. Easier to drop the engine out.
If you have a generator, I'm not sure.
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12757
Threads: 732
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 1st, 2012 at 07:46 PM |
|
|
easier if you take the fan shroud off with the alternator
Still a prick of a job
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
shokwave2
A.k.a.: Matt Hamilton
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 289
Threads: 28
Registered: March 7th, 2010
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on May 1st, 2012 at 08:23 PM |
|
|
Should take no more than half an hour to remove the inlet manifold with the engine still in. I had to do it about 2 weeks ago. It can be a pain to
some but if you don't have engine removal tools it's the only way. I got to it by removing the decklid (for easier access and removal of parts),
removing the fan shroud, and removing/loosening the manifold ends. You may even be able to have a look inside the head ports once you remove these
parts, if the nozzle is not found.
|
|
|
bnicho
A.k.a.: Brett Nicholson
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 436
Threads: 55
Registered: February 24th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Usually Cranky!
|
| posted on May 12th, 2012 at 05:19 PM |
|
|
My carb arrived from the US on Thursday and I fitted it this afternoon.
Mmmm, pretty.
I looked inside each of the bores with the camera and I couldn't find where the nozzle went. So I guess it's in the exhaust now.
The accelerator pump linkage must be different on US cars, or one not equipped with an alternator. The one on the reco carb fouled on the alternator
casing. Swapping the linkage parts from my old carb fixed that. There was also three extra vacuum ports to block off. (only two blocked in the
photo.)
She starts and idles beautifully now and seemed to have more grunt in my short test drive. We will see how she goes when used for commuting this
week.
Cheers,
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
|
|
