| [ Total Views: 1250 | Total Replies: 23 | Thread Id: 100571 ] |
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 Lateral
A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on January 22nd, 2013 at 04:54 PM |
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Recommended Oil pressure in KPA for Twin Port motor??
Hi guys
I'm sorting out a number of issues with a car that I have recently purchased.
It is a 1916, with a mild Engle Cam (I think) with Fuel injection.
I have a range of VDO gauges. oil temp, oil pressure, etc.
The oil pressure gauge is in KPA x 100 with a range from 0 to 5.
Can somebody please tell me what the oil pressure should be:
1. at initial startup of the car? (ie: during warm up)
2. at 2000 rpm?
3. at highway speeds?
Should the oil pressure remain constant or will it change?
Thanks for your help.
Regards
Greg
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sander288
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| posted on January 22nd, 2013 at 06:30 PM |
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Hard to pin point exactly because your motor is modified so there isn't going to be a "spec" figure
also is your case a dual relief or single relief? and what size oil pump do you have?; what viscosity of oil?, what temperature?
I don't have a 1600 spec manual but a pre '65 1200 is supposed to be
SAE 10W-30 with oil @ 70 deg celcius
@550rpm - 7 psi = 48.25 kPa
@2500rpm - 28 psi = 193 kPa
the above at least gives you a baseline to go off
Cheers
Shaun
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vwo60
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| posted on January 22nd, 2013 at 07:30 PM |
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what pressure do you have at the above engine revs
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Lateral
A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on January 22nd, 2013 at 08:31 PM |
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Hi guys
I just changed the oil using Mobil 20-50w as I had no idea what oil was in the motor and how long it had been there.
I plan on doing a test tomorrow.
I'll post the results.
Thanks
Regards Greg
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Lateral
A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on January 23rd, 2013 at 11:58 AM |
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Hi guys
I did a test this morning with the car after replacing the oil yesterday. The car is fitted with an external oil cooler connected to the oil pump (I
don't know the specs of the pump) located above the gearbox, and a deep sump. I dropped out 5 litres of nasty black stuff and put in 5 litres of
Mobil 20/50W. I started the car and ran it for a few minutes then check the oil level. It was about 50mm over the high oil level mark on the dip
stick. I thought that it may have been due to the external oil cooler being empty?? Anyway, I took the car for a test drive noting a range of data
including KPA, Temp etc. I have attached a PDF file with the data.
After the test drive I checked the oil level again and it was still about 50mm above the top mark.....is this telling me something????
Oh, the engine was built from scratch in 2009 with all new parts, Brazilian AS21 case (dual relief), new heads (I can't remove the rocker covers to
check what type but they take the 19mm reach plugs) etc. It has done almost 19,000 kms.
Regards
Greg
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Lateral
A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on January 25th, 2013 at 04:49 PM |
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Update regarding oil level....
I checked the oil level again and it has dropped and is now about 20mm over the high level mark.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 25th, 2013 at 07:25 PM |
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You're running high oil temps.........fix that, and your pressure will increase 
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bajachris88
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| posted on January 25th, 2013 at 10:00 PM |
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5 Ltrs of oil is a bit excessive for a lil' dub engine!
Over filling is just as bad as being too low. Crank will cause froth and your pickup tube (in bad cases) will sick a air/oil mix, not giving proper
lube to the bearings.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Lateral
A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 04:53 AM |
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I'll drain out the excess oil.
What should the oil pressure be at startup and whilst under load??? What should I be aiming for?
Regarding the high oil temp issue, I'm aware that the temp is excessive and it is on my todo list. The car has a large external oil cooler connected
to the oil pump and I think a cheap doghouse shroud and tinware that isn't doing what it's supposed to do....cool the engine.
I may start another thread just on the high oil temp.
Can you give me an idea of what temps I should be aiming for?
Regards
Greg
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 08:26 AM |
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Oil should be above 90 and below 120
105 is probably the point to aim for
Looking at your chart your temps are just continue to grow.
At no time do they start to come down.
That is the concerning part for me.
125 is really at the top, but, yes, it all depends "where" you measure from.
I have heard there can be as much as 10-15 difference in measure point
The fact you have a external cooler and still getting to 125 after 40kms and 1hr and no more than 3k revs
Does the external cooler have a fan??
Does the fan come on??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Lateral
A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 09:00 AM |
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Hi Bizarre
The external oil cooler is 280mm x 180mm x 40mm (deep) and is located above the transmission and is connected to the oil pump (I have attached a
photo, note that one of the standoffs is missing...any idea where I can get these from locally??). There is no fan or thermostat that I can see. I
checked to make sure that oil is in fact getting to the cooler and it is (it was very hot to touch after a test run). I have not yet removed the fan
shroud to see if the original cooler is still in place. There is no oil filter on the system.
I would expect that the location of the cooler gets minium or no air flow. I have been investigating cooler fans but really wanted to hear people's
opinions before I embark on any changes.
My gut feel, is that the tinware needs to be looked at and checked to make sure that everything is where it should be and is therefore providing the
cooling that the engine needs.
I have also booked the car in with guys who are experts in the ECU that is fitted to the car (Atom G4) so that we can see how things have been setup.
Thanks again for your helkp with this...I'm working through all of the issues to make this car a reliable daily driver.
Regards
Greg
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 09:11 AM |
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when Volkswagen put the bigger 1600 motor in the beetle they added vents into the engine lid.
I think your car still has old type lid no vents.
you can either pop it up at bottom or buy some hood jacks. to let extra cooling air in . we run the hood jacks.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 09:24 AM |
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http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=45068&page=1
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 09:31 AM |
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I think that you should change volkswagen oil every 2500miles.
we use castrol edge 25/50 or 10/60
I think stan pobjoy also uses castrol edge.
http://castroledge.com.au/oils/
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OZ Towdster
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 09:32 AM |
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Do's the car engine have a stock doghouse oil cooler as well as the external cooler or just the external cooler .
Doe's it possibly have a power pulley ( ie small dia bottom belt pulley ) which makes the fan spin slower .
Is the exhaust clean and no soot after a drive or can you get soot on your finger when wiping inside the pipe , when checking this preferbley don't
leave it idleing for any period as it may be running rich at idle but lean in the upper end of the rev range which is leading to the higher temps .
Apart from that the idle oil pressure holds nicely at the 1.5 which i'dd be happy with
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
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matberry
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 09:53 AM |
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Definately the engine oil is too hot. Increasing oil cooling is like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. The engine temps must be sorted,
putting bigger coolers etc is not the answer. I have engines over 9:1 CR, 2.3 litres and NO oli cooler required. Definately need air available
into the engine bay. If it has a wide fan (should be with the doghouse fan housing) you MUST have bigger air vents or stepped deck lid as suggested.
Otherwise it purely comes down to engine effficiency, ie tight deck and reasonable compression ratio and matched components, exhaust system, heads
and carbs must be happy with the cam choice.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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sander288
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 10:17 AM |
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Yep I experience no overheating on my engine; 1300cc, 20W50 Penrite Classic, 30mm Oil Pump, 9.3:1 CR and a stock in-shroud cooler.
If I go on the track I pop the bottom of the decklid open. I also run ALL stock tinware
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vwo60
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 04:13 PM |
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I run a 2276 in a ghia with the standard vents, 10.8 to 1, i try to never get the oil temp over 100 degrees at any time, cylinder head temp runs at a
constant temp of 135 degrees, external oil cooler with fan and thermostat ,oil temp is taken after the external cooler as i want to see what oil temp
is actually feed to the bearings, i haver a IR gun and have looked at different temps over the motor, if you take oil temps from the block it is not
the actual oil temp as the heat migrates through the block material from the barrels and other heat sources, my oil pressure runs at a constant 3.5bar
at 3000 RPM and at idle is 1.5 bar with a temp of 90 degrees, the fan on my cooler is controlled by a electronic controller that allows you to set the
turn on and of point of the fan, plus allows you to set alarms at other point to warn you of a temp rise, you will need to find the cause of your high
temps as it is outside the recommended temps, you should run a oil thermostat and fan with a good fan controller as a matter of course to protect your
engine. i also have a scoop under the car to direct a good air flow to the cooler
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A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 05:14 PM |
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Hi guys
Am I correct in saying that my oil pressures are fine?
If that's correct then I will start a new thread that focuses on the high oil temp.
Here is the new thread http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=100629&page=1#pid940842
I understand completely that it is important that all of the tinware is correct and correctly fitted and that the rubber engine seal is correctly
seated etc.
Regards
Greg
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 05:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
Yep I experience no overheating on my engine; 1300cc, 20W50 Penrite Classic, 30mm Oil Pump, 9.3:1 CR and a stock in-shroud cooler.
If I go on the track I pop the bottom of the decklid open. I also run ALL stock tinware
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yep I think CT has his lid pop at bottom to and he racers his bug regular with no probs.
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vwo60
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 05:29 PM |
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Your oil pressure is low because of the high temps
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A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on January 26th, 2013 at 09:56 PM |
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Ok...so, as a priority, I will focus on reducing the oil temperaturen and getting that issue sorted out.
Regards
Greg
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Klaus
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 01:35 PM |
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engine been tuned properly as it could be running lean or too much advance ?
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Lateral
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 03:48 PM |
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Hi Klaus
Yep, I have the booked into the Dyno next Monday to see how things have been setup. We are looking to go for 30 degrees maxmimum advance.... the car
is running an EFI system.
I put a timing light on the car and it was showing 25 degrees at idle.
Regards
Greg
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