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 Phil74Camper
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 12:50 PM |
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VW SP2 (Brazil) in VWMA 37
Craig's VWMA (Issue 37) is now on sale in newsagents. Another great read - thanks Craig!
There is a fantastic article on the Brazilian SP2 sports car of 1972-76, but unfortunately it contans serveral mistakes. I don't know who wrote it as
there's no name.
It says, "the new model would use the current 412 chassis, with a 94.5-inch wheelbase, 412 suspension and the 75-bhp version of the 412's flat four
1678cc engine."
No it didn't. The VW 412 was never made outside of Germany so the new car wasn't based on that. In any case, the VW 411 was a unitary body and
didn't have a "chassis." In fact the VW SP2 was made on a Type 3 chassis, and hence has torsion bars (not the Macpherson struts used on the
411).
You can also see this if you look at the 94.5-inch wheelbase - which is 2400mm. Standard VW Type 1, 2 and 3. The VW 411 actually had a 2490 mm
wheelbase (98").
The engine was also Type 3, not VW 411. It was actually a 1600 with an 88mm big bore kit - 88 x 69 = 1678 cc. The 411's engine was 90 x 66 = 1679 cc,
and it made 80-bhp, considerably more than the SP2's 63 bhp.
http://www.vwsp2.ch/
Yes the Porsche 924 looks a bit like the SP2, but being front-engined water-cooled (and based on an Audi), that's all they had in common.
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vlad01
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 01:24 PM |
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only 63bhp? thats less thatn stock type 3 lol.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 02:12 PM |
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The normal 1600 was rated at just 53-bhp. Yes would have been detuned for Brazil's high-ethanol petrol. Even so, the Brazilians nicknamed the SP the
'Sem Potenzia' - meaning 'without power' in Portuguese. The Puma went better as it was made of fibreglass, not steel as the SP2 was.
Today's modern Brazilian VWs have computer-controlled 'Flex-Fuel' engine managament systems and can make more power on E100 than on E10. No such
high-tech luxuries in the 1970s.
After the SP2 was killed off, VW Brazil started making the Passat TS - a giant leap forward in every way!
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splitbus
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 04:39 PM |
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In newsagents already, what's the hold up with subscriptions
Cheers, Mike
------------------------------------
| o*/o | 55 split screen
I don't have a bucket list, I have a f^%k it list a mile long
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Gringo_54_oval
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 10:38 PM |
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When i lived in brasil i had a 66 beetle with a 1700cc, after i broke my gearbox my uncle found me through one of his mates a gearbox from an
SP2,maann that 2 gear was super long, one day heading to Rio i got clocked by a stupid cop doing 178km/h. Copper was impressed a bug could go that
fast
SP2's are super rare in brasil and love to rust so for spares forget about it.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on February 1st, 2013 at 06:39 AM |
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Do you know if the 88mm cylinders on the SP2 were the crappy slip-ins, or the machine-ins? If so, the Brazilian VW factory would have had to machine
the cases and heads to fit those ones, which would have added to the cost. According to the tech specs page on the VW SP2 website (above), the SP2
1678cc had a 0.89 top gear and a 3.875 diff - same as a late Type 3. The normal 1600 SP2 had the same gears but a 4.125 diff.
Like all old VWs, spares must still be around somewhere - check out this news item from last year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/classiccars/9709139/Volkswagen-SP2-treasu...
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Burrelli
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| posted on February 1st, 2013 at 02:49 PM |
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I thought late type3s had a .93 4th gear?
Also SP2 had the 041 heads with 40mm inlet valve and 15% bigger ports and 1.25 rockers from memory.
The SP1 had the normal type3 1600???
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vlad01
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| posted on February 1st, 2013 at 04:43 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
The normal 1600 was rated at just 53-bhp. Yes would have been detuned for Brazil's high-ethanol petrol. Even so, the Brazilians nicknamed the SP the
'Sem Potenzia' - meaning 'without power' in Portuguese. The Puma went better as it was made of fibreglass, not steel as the SP2 was.
Today's modern Brazilian VWs have computer-controlled 'Flex-Fuel' engine managament systems and can make more power on E100 than on E10. No such
high-tech luxuries in the 1970s.
After the SP2 was killed off, VW Brazil started making the Passat TS - a giant leap forward in every way!
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actually the 1500N type 3 with single side draft solex was rated at 53bhp. 1500S with twin solex 66bhp and the twin solex 1600 slightly less at
65bhp
all which is absolutely useless power anyway.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Burrelli
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| posted on February 1st, 2013 at 11:29 PM |
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Vald you are getting DIN and SAE BHP mixed up.
DIN BHP SAE BHP
1500N 45@3800 54@4200
1500S 54@4200 66@4800
Aussie S 52@4200 63.5@4800
(m249)
1600 54@4000 65@4600
It interesting that all high comp type3 1600s are rated the same. Single port, duel port and fuel injected but if you drive them they clearly perform
differently.
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vlad01
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| posted on February 2nd, 2013 at 06:39 PM |
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yes and no.
1 PS(DIN) = 0.986(Bhp SAE)
but DIN is done with installed engine condition measured at the flywheel so there might be losses via air intake, air ducts and possible exhaust
setup?
When you do the conversions the numbers are so close it doesn't add up to the specs your mention.
I have never seen literature stating DIN or SAE numbers that low. The looks like beetle figures to me.
Anyway I also found it funny how the EFI type 3 was rated the same as the dual carb 1600 when clearly it had more power. You could do burnouts in
those cars.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Burrelli
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| posted on February 2nd, 2013 at 07:35 PM |
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The figures do seem a bit low for DIN. It is a different way of measuring HP, notice the HP is at different RPM as well.
All those figures are straight out of the VW service booklet from 1970 Without Guesswork.
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