| [ Total Views: 3252 | Total Replies: 66 | Thread Id: 109577 ] |
| Pages: 1 2 3 |
|
|
 Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 03:35 PM |
|
|
Engine bush build
Thought I'd detail the bush (re)build of my 1600 engine. The PO took the engine apart after a reported spun bearing and I now have the puzzle to put
together - at least I think I have all the pieces. This is just a fun exercise, done on the cheap and for me to learn a bit on building a VW engine
before investing in new parts for a stroker build at a later date. If this starts and gets my car to the TMR to be registered then mission
accomplished.
The parts have seen water so first thing to do was to get rid of the rust starting with the crank.
Before:
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 03:36 PM |
|
|
After a dose of WD40 and 400 and 600 wet and dry.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 03:39 PM |
|
|
I think the spun bearing was a bearing failure due to this piece still embedded in the con-rod??????
Did a bit of polishing again to try and get rid of most of the damage to the rod.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
grumble
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2668
Threads: 53
Registered: June 10th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Taree
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy all the time
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 05:57 PM |
|
|
Looking at the rod I think (in fact I am sure) you will find the rod bore is egg shaped and that journal is worn meaning that the crank should be
eground and the rod replaced to prevent a similar failure in the future.
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 07:01 PM |
|
|
Yes I also noticed the extra wear around the edges of the journal as well. The spun bearings are not uniform on the edges so I think they were
floating sideways either before or after spinning. I took a reasonable number of measurements on that one journal but I don't have the gear to
accurately measure it. The measurements did show something interesting - the case is well used and one of the rods is an odd size to the rest.
Measurements:
Crank
54.75
54.75
54.74
Case
Thrust
21.85
22.00
21.78
Line bore
66.54
66.44
66.43
Rods
54.72
54.72
54.50
54.72
The smaller rod above is the problem rod so my thinking is that the wrong bearing size may have been used by the previous builder and this promoted
the bearing failure and spinning....or the spinning took away the perfect amount of metal to take the rod down a size.
Based on my searching the measurements would indicate the case has already been line bored 3 times with one line bore left in it and the crank has
been ground once already. Seems the engine has been well used over time.
I'm pretty sure I've measured it as accurately as I could and am now trying to figure out which bearings to buy. Your suggestion of another rod
would be a benefit as I could then get all the rod bearings at the same size......I think???
|
|
|
ragged
A.k.a.: David
Wolfsburg Wizard
Just ask if you need HELP!
Posts: 478
Threads: 46
Registered: January 25th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Medication seems to be working
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 07:20 PM |
|
|
The con rod with the spun bearing needs to be binned. Not worth trying to repair. Find a second hand replacement.
The crank will need to have the big end (con rod) journals reground. the main bearing journal may just need a linish.
Take it to a professional crankshaft grinder and have him measure it up to see what it needs.
From what I saw of your crankcase, until that is measured up and checked, it may be reusable with just a clean up.
I have a feeling your motor may have been rebuilt, and a con rod bolt has come loose, causing the spun bearing.
Do you have the piston and cylinders for the engine? If so, put up a picture of the piston tops.
Dave
|
|
|
grumble
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2668
Threads: 53
Registered: June 10th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Taree
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy all the time
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 07:44 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ragged
The con rod with the spun bearing needs to be binned. Not worth trying to repair. Find a second hand replacement.
The crank will need to have the big end (con rod) journals reground. the main bearing journal may just need a linish.
Take it to a professional crankshaft grinder and have him measure it up to see what it needs.
From what I saw of your crankcase, until that is measured up and checked, it may be reusable with just a clean up.
I have a feeling your motor may have been rebuilt, and a con rod bolt has come loose, causing the spun bearing.
Do you have the piston and cylinders for the engine? If so, put up a picture of the piston tops.
Dave
|
I agree Dave,the rod was probably stretched prior to the last rebuild giving excess clearance and subsequent bearing failure. You are probably
fortunate in that the conrod bot didn't break and come out through the top of the case like a lot of others I have seen in the last 45 years.There is
no such thing as a cheap engine overhaul.
Les
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 07:47 PM |
|
|
Don't have a picture but the piston tops are all coked up, the cylinders seem reasonable some still have the cross hatching but one has a very slight
lip.
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 1st, 2015 at 07:51 PM |
|
|
I should have explained a it more in the first post that I'm giving this a go:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=533158
Make my mistakes on this pos and not on the good build, so aim is to be as cheap and cheerful as possible. I'm sure it will be cringeworthy but for
me it fills the time while I can't work on the body or chassis.
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 2nd, 2015 at 12:21 PM |
|
|
Pulled out the rest of the parts boxes and got to work on some more measurements today
Bore 92mm
Stroke 69mm
Which makes it an 1835cc motor  bonus!!!
Heads are AMC
Measured the rod lengths, eye to eye and got
97.15
97.13
97.00
97.01 this was the bad one.
Not sure why there are two different lengths unless I got unlucky on taking crappy measurements.
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on August 2nd, 2015 at 01:56 PM |
|
|
Take the rods to have the cap shoulder machined so the rods big end can be bored back to OE. The rod big ends take much of the beating of the bottom
end and ovalling of the rods big end is fairly common.
The engine shop can also rebush and ream the small end as fairly likely they'll need attention too unless you have a
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 2nd, 2015 at 03:49 PM |
|
|
Thanks psimitar.
....and as requested a photo of the pistons before and after a clean up today.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
adlbeetle66
A.k.a.: Denver
Custom Title Time!
Under the car.........again!
Posts: 1476
Threads: 98
Registered: August 15th, 2014
Member Is Offline
Location: Capalaba, Brisbane, QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: ICH BIN VW NUSS
|
| posted on August 2nd, 2015 at 07:27 PM |
|
|
You're certainly good with your WD40 and sand paper! 
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 2nd, 2015 at 08:34 PM |
|
|
Lol, the piston tops were a strip wheel job 
|
|
|
ragged
A.k.a.: David
Wolfsburg Wizard
Just ask if you need HELP!
Posts: 478
Threads: 46
Registered: January 25th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Medication seems to be working
|
| posted on August 4th, 2015 at 01:01 PM |
|
|
When a big end bearing fails, it will allow the piston to move further in the cylinder, eventually the piston will hit the cylinder head. This is the
noise that lets you know something has gone wrong.
I can't say for sure that piston has been hitting the head from the picture, but you can see how the edges of the piston have been washed clean. That
is the tell tale sign that the oil ring is not controlling the oil, allowing too much oil to pass into the cylinder which will be burnt and exit the
exhaust as blue smoke.
What you will need to measure on the piston is the ring grooves. This is where the rings sit, and it is the gap between the side of the ring and the
piston groove that needs to be measured. Let me know if i need to explain more.
Dave
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 4th, 2015 at 02:57 PM |
|
|
I think I have it, so measure the remaining vertical space in the ring groove with the ring in place? What size am I looking for?
|
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on August 5th, 2015 at 09:19 AM |
|
|
Looking for 0.0045"/inch of bore
92 need around 0.016" by memory
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
modnrod
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 978
Threads: 50
Registered: March 17th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Midwest, Westoz.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Old School Volksies!
|
| posted on August 5th, 2015 at 09:50 AM |
|
|
Vertical space left in the piston groove with the ring in it, yes (piston ring land clearance).
I rekn once it's past .004" time for new ones if you want it to last and have good comp, new sets are 1/2 that usually.
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 6th, 2015 at 10:02 PM |
|
|
Got a new set of feeler gauges today and they are all around .004, won't take a .005.
Con rods have arrived today thanks to landfall, looking good and will use these instead of mine.
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 9th, 2015 at 03:41 PM |
|
|
Quick clean of the heads. Before and after.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on August 9th, 2015 at 11:07 PM |
|
|
What did you use to clean the heads with? Seems to have worked pretty well.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 11th, 2015 at 01:27 PM |
|
|
A can of degreaser each and left overnight in plastic bags. Then used a wire end brush to clean them up. Might need to be a bit gentler with the brush
next time.
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on August 11th, 2015 at 02:21 PM |
|
|
Ah yea, the steel wire will bite into the softer ali heads but using a brass bristle drill brush just doesn't have the bite needed to remove carbon
build up of either oil or combustion process.
No biggie as a mild flycut of the barrel seating face of the head would be advisable anyway to ensure no leaks once reassembled 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12755
Threads: 731
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on August 11th, 2015 at 09:45 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
s a mild flycut of the barrel seating face of the head .... to ensure no leaks once reassembled
|
As a minimum
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 12th, 2015 at 10:08 PM |
|
|
Started assembling the crank today and continued learning the hard way.....I heated the gears up on the BBQ but didn't get enough heat into the
timing gear and it ended up stuck half way. Seeing as I didn't have the proper puller it took two torches to get it hot enough to remove. 2nd time
round it was still a bastard to fit. I put the crank into the freezer for a half hour before I tried the distributor gear and that ended up getting a
bit beaten before it too went on. I should be better at this when I'm doing the good engine......
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on August 12th, 2015 at 10:52 PM |
|
|
Just chuck em in a preheated oven for 30mins at 200C 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on August 12th, 2015 at 10:54 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
s a mild flycut of the barrel seating face of the head .... to ensure no leaks once reassembled
|
As a minimum
|
Well it is a bush build Up to him if he wants to go new guides, new
exhaust valves, a valve seat re-cut and re-cut the inlet valves.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 16th, 2015 at 12:51 PM |
|
|
....so my bearings and gasket kit arrived and I started putting the motor together. Bit of a juggle to get the crank into one case half but got there
and a bearing jumped out of place......had to seperate the case 3 times.
Then onto the pistons and jugs which had to be done twice so I could get all the gudgeon pin clips in correctly. On to the heads, again done 3 times,
last time with then tubes and push rods. Forgot about the 2 tin pieces, found one but have to take the heads off again to fit them.
Then the real fun started.....the distributor drive. I did not understand that you needed to have the distributor in before turning the engine so it
would not walk off the crank gear.....took a long time to get it back out. Went to bed.
Up this morning, drive is in, distributor is on, have problems.
The drive is still able to ride up even with the distributor clamped in. Also have a lot of end play....60 thou when the crank is moved rocked back
and forward by about 2 degrees. I'm stumped now and don't know what I've missed.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
Banshee777
Commited Dubber
Posts: 74
Threads: 11
Registered: June 11th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on August 16th, 2015 at 12:53 PM |
|
|
Shot of the end play from the pulley end. Seems to prefer to turn anti clockwise rather than clockwise. Any clues on where I have gone wrong.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
ragged
A.k.a.: David
Wolfsburg Wizard
Just ask if you need HELP!
Posts: 478
Threads: 46
Registered: January 25th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Medication seems to be working
|
| posted on August 16th, 2015 at 02:53 PM |
|
|
Is the flywheel fitted?
|
|
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 |
