| [ Total Views: 1218 | Total Replies: 12 | Thread Id: 1436 ] |
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 Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 12:14 PM |
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Tyre width - is your car "illegal"? (QLD) sorry long post
Following on from blup58 (Brad's) post,
We (Brad and I) have done some more investigation regarding tyre width for beetles (registered in Queensland). To say things are confusing is an
understatement!
Firstly, Brad rang the Vehicle Modification Centre who said “Maximum tyre width = 1.3 x the manufacturer’s largest tyre option originally offered
for that vehicle”. Therefore, for a 58 beetle that came out with 5.6in tyres (no other options offered) (converts to 142.24mm), the legal limit for
tyre width is (1.3x142.24mm) = 184.912mm (I guess a 185mm tyre is close enough). Now this concerned me as I run 205s on the back of my 63 bug
(originally came out with 5.6in tyres) thus deeming it illegal according to their guidelines.
Next, I rang Shannon's insurance (who I am insured with) to ask about this issue. Basically they said “if a car has any illegal modifications
(eg. tyre width greater than the legal limit for that car), and you are in an accident etc, your claim may be voided”. However, if your
modifications are approved by an engineer (blue plated) or the car passes a road worthy inspection (and you have the safety certificate), those
modifications are considered to be legal and your claim will not be voided. She did tell me to check this with the engineer/road worthy inspector
first though.
Next Brad rang a mechanical engineer who deals with automotive work. He is currently revising the rules and indicated (not confirmed) that he is
pushing to have this tyre rule abolished or modified, however it will not take place for another 6 months or so. He did confirm that the 1.3 x largest
option for original tyre width rule still applies.
I then rang a different automotive engineer who agreed that there are no exemptions and that the rule still applies (I told him a “hypothetical”
situation whereby a “mate” was running 205s on his beetle….he said that this is illegal and the insurance company could potentially void the
insurance in the case of an accident). I double checked with him that my “mate’s” car passed the road worthy (safety certificate) with those
tyres on it so how can it be illegal. He said that many people doing safety certification turn a blind eye or just don’t know, and at the end of the
day if it comes back to them they will just say that “when I inspected it, it had smaller tyres that complied” because they only check a box for
tyres on the sheet, they don’t have to document what tyre size was on the car.
Also, the overall outside diameter of the tyre cannot be more than 15mm greater than the original. So if you run 17in wheels (which Brad is hoping to
do), you obviously have to run a low profile tyre so the diameter is not more than 15mm greater than the original tyre.
So where does this leave those of us in Qld who are driving beetles (originally fitted with 5.6in tyres) who have tyres larger than 185s?? Basically
they are illegal and the insurance could be voided. However, there used to be an old "pamphlet" which had some exclusions for volkswagens so
if yours was registered then, it may be excluded!?
Just thought you’d like to know. If anyone else has more info that proves us wrong, please let me know!
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 12:41 PM |
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There is an old pamphlet, and I do have a copy. It says Volkswagens type 1, 2, and 3 are excempt from the width rules, and may run 7 inch wide rims
(with whatever tyres I suppose).
Also with the 1.3x rule, this is applied to the widest optional tyre for that vehicle. The later beetles which are certainly still the same model
(type 1) came with 165's. 1.3 x 165 is 215.
I will have to check the wording of the rules, but I think the 1.3 actually was meant to apply to the rim width. There are factory vw rims that are
5.5" wide, so 1.3 x 5.5" is 7.15", which is basically what the old tyre guide was.
Then since baja/buggies are considered offroad vehicles some people have successfully argued that they should use the 1.5 x rule of offroad vehicles,
and then be allowed to run 8.25" rims.
I will try to look at the exact wording tonight if I get a chance. But it depends on who you talk to, on how they interpret the rules.
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 04:00 PM |
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Rules
the 1.3 or 1.5 x applied to the rim not the tyres, the tyres are then governed by the rim width. |
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 05:17 PM |
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Hi
I beleive that Queensland and the rest of the country are adopting the NSW rules soon. Forget the multiplying tyre sizes, the NSW rule is, if your car
is pre 1973 and weighs between 801 & 1000 kgs you can use 7 inch wide wheels. And tyres to suit these wheels.
If your car was made after 1973 you can only run a wheel 1.5 inches wider, the sports wheel for later bugs is 5.5 inches + 1.5 = 7 inches.
Most people checking cars are not uptodate on all the rules, thats why you get variations.
BTW, my 1972 bug bug weighs 1001 kgs and uses 944 rear suspension, 9 inch wheels were optional on 944s so my bug can legally run 8s & 9s
1302Steve
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 08:42 PM |
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actually the change that is coming is not to go to NSW rules, but to bring in new australian wide rules. The engineer that approved my car wrote the
new rules so I have had a quick read. The new rules will have a clause which states you can go to any size if the vehicle gearbox and suspension etc
is suitably modified.
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blup58
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 09:05 PM |
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Any idea when these new potential rules maybe coming in guys.
Just an idea would be good as it may be worth my while to just wait until the new rules are adopted before I do anything. But if the rules ar another
year or two off then I think I will have to base my decision on current rules.
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 09:28 PM |
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Thanks for the info guys....I have the new pamphlet and it states
"The maximum tyre width must not be more than 1.3 times wider than the vehicle manufacturer's widest optional tyre"
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on November 3rd, 2002 at 02:53 PM |
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Does anyone know of a site regarding legal vehicle modifications (QLD)? I asked at QLD Transport and they told me to call the inspector but we
don't have a local inspector where I live (and I have hundreds of questions) ie rules on rear vision, ride height etc |
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on November 3rd, 2002 at 11:03 PM |
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If you go to a qld transport office they will be able to give you a pamphlet with details re. vehicle modifications. Not sure if it is on the web, I
will try to find out (unless someone else replies here first!). :puke
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on November 4th, 2002 at 07:55 PM |
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:thumb that would be good- Qld transport were not very helpful here in Bundy |
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on November 21st, 2002 at 10:40 AM |
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Mad Manx...here is a link to a fair whack of info (you need Adobe acrobat reader to view it though).
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUVSSR99_02C_0208...
better late than never! Not sure if this is what you are after though
Alan
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reub
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| posted on November 21st, 2002 at 01:41 PM |
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I only recently put my car through for my modified vehicle application up here in Darwin. My car runs 16x7.5 f and 16x9.5 r and it wasn't
questioned. All they were interested in was the wheel offset for the new wheels as opposed to the original to ensure the track wasn't increaded
or decreased by more than 50mm front and rear.
Reub
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on November 21st, 2002 at 10:19 PM |
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Thanks for that Reub, stupid question but how do they check whether the track has increased/decreased by more than 50mm? Do they have the track
measurements from original unmodified beetle?
Cheers
Alan
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bugboymatt
A.k.a.: Matt
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| posted on November 22nd, 2002 at 04:09 AM |
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That legislation site is an eye opener !!
Might have to print out relevent parts in case get pulled over by the police !!
Not that anything doesn't come up to standard of course !!!
Just to do battle !!!!!! :vader
Da Time For The Aircooled Revolution Is Upon US.
Brothers & Sisters Lets Hit The Streets, Roll As One. And Feel The Power Of The Aircooled Storm.
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on November 23rd, 2002 at 05:15 PM |
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Thanks for the info guys- much appreciated:thumb
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05  ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable) |
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reub
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| posted on November 24th, 2002 at 11:06 AM |
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Alan, our modifyed vehicle applications in Darwin ask for original information for everything and modifications proposed information for everything,
plus additional modifications. I bought the car in Brisbane. I had 2 engineers look at it for me before I went down for a look. 1 of the engineers
wasn't interestd in even looking at the car, and when he did look he called me and told me it was a heap of s!&t and to keep my money (a good
unbiased report as asked for). The second engineer had no real problem with the car but said it would have to be treated as an individually
constructed vehicle, meaning everything would have to omply with the 2002 ADR's. I guess I'm lucky the NT considers it to be a modifyed
vehicle. Bring on national guidlines I say.
[Edited on 24-11-2002 by reub-revhead]
Reub
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on November 25th, 2002 at 08:02 AM |
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Where abouts did you obtain the original information re. track and all the other stuff you need? Is it in the original drivers manual or did you have
to source it elsewhere?
Cheers
Alan
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