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 sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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 posted on May 27th, 2006 at 12:01 PM |
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track car
Im hoping you good folk may be able to help me short cut some thinking time. I am building a 60 bettle for track work and Dutton etc. It will be a mid
mounted ej20t using a front wheel drive subaru gearbox. The help I need is any info on gearlinkage(I have seen somewhere a rep porche) and on
suspenson changes ie coilover spring poundage etc. Knowledge is all empowering and any help hints or directions would be greatly appreciated. THANKS
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boof2332
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| posted on May 27th, 2006 at 05:55 PM |
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Hey mate,
I have been looking at doing a mid mount beetle for a while as i have a mid mounted ej20tt in a 914. It uses the 4 wheel drive box with the rear drive
removed and a special diff. the back cover plate incorporates the mount to the body. The linkage is a bit hard to describe although works a treat.
Matt
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 27th, 2006 at 08:40 PM |
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You 'are' building or 'thinking' of building?
Pay your debts, CxxT
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sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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| posted on May 28th, 2006 at 12:08 PM |
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track car
vwcool, I am building. Boof I was wondering if you new how make, or the design to make the linkage. I am using a Liberty front wheel drive box as it
lighter,cheaper and will still take all the after market go gear.THANKS
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 28th, 2006 at 06:54 PM |
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Cool! I think Dutton etc require street registration so you may want to look into the legals...?
Pay your debts, CxxT
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jakjones
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| posted on May 28th, 2006 at 11:02 PM |
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what class can u race in with a mid engine beetle?
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sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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| posted on May 29th, 2006 at 04:07 PM |
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track car
The legals with the car are now being nutted out with engineer etc. The class I would compete on regular weekend days is 2L 2wd modified, same with
Dutton,Targa wont let me I dont think, no class. Mate of mine was not able to run in the Targa this year with his heavily modifiedv8 jag. If anyone
could help with info or web direction as discussed, would be greatful
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gull
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| posted on May 29th, 2006 at 04:18 PM |
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I have built a ej22 mid mount with an auto in a trike , very fast , wrx coil overs
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sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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| posted on May 29th, 2006 at 04:25 PM |
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track car
Good on you Gull,love to think out of the box. yours must be slightly dangerous fun. Did you have issues licencing
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 29th, 2006 at 09:15 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sub60
The legals with the car are now being nutted out with engineer etc. The class I would compete on regular weekend days is 2L 2wd modified, same with
Dutton,Targa wont let me I dont think, no class. Mate of mine was not able to run in the Targa this year with his heavily modifiedv8 jag. If anyone
could help with info or web direction as discussed, would be greatful
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Best to speak with CAMS, sometimes what seems to be a great idea/combination won't actually be eligible for a recognised class.
An Engineer may not be aware of the specific 'race' class requirements.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 29th, 2006 at 10:30 PM |
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...and race class requirements often don't correlate to what is allowed on the roads. But jeez, if its possible to build and register a middie/WRX
dak-dak, it would be an animal!
Pay your debts, CxxT
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boof2332
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| posted on May 29th, 2006 at 11:28 PM |
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Hey Mate,
Im sure the input for the linkage for the box would be similar. Mine is really trick...What is your email and I will send you photos.
I was going to get a half cut and fab the hole front suspension in the rear.
Would have to be registered as an ICV?
Call me on 0416 115 993
Matt
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sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 01:38 PM |
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track car
Cams runs events such as Targa will have no class for me. Though can run in the non competitive division, I believe. Each state has varyng licencing
requirements, but believe it can be done.Boof with reguard to the half cut front, for licencing it is better to keep as much of the original rear end
as possible, other wise I would make a full chassis with front and rear, which would be to expensive for me. My email is
CRYSTALBROOKCOTTAGE@BIGPOND.COM.AU
I will call you. THANKS
MIKE
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JVLR
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 02:17 PM |
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A full tube chassis$$$$$$$$$$will need a big bank account.Mid mount you still will need plenty $$$$.Whats your budget?...........JVL
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 02:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sub60
Cams runs events such as Targa will have no class for me. Though can run in the non competitive division, I believe. Each state has varyng licencing
requirements, but believe it can be done.Boof with reguard to the half cut front, for licencing it is better to keep as much of the original rear end
as possible, other wise I would make a full chassis with front and rear, which would be to expensive for me. My email is
CRYSTALBROOKCOTTAGE@BIGPOND.COM.AU
I will call you. THANKS
MIKE
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With the engine in the middle, it'll have to be just about a full chassis anyway and due to major architecture changes, comply with 2006 ADRs,
including front crash protection, side intrusion blah blah. The only way you MAY go close will be with L-bug body with strut front end; a nice match
with Boof's suggestion of coil-sprung Subie strut rear. And JVL's mention of expense with tube frame - listen to the man; he knows allll about big
bux with frustrating results. 
In other words, you want to build a Beetle-shelled Porsche 914! Good idea, but keep in mind you can buy a Boxster for under $50K these days - possibly
a much nicer road and race car
[ Edited on 30-5-2006 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 04:03 PM |
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TRACK CAR
Yes a full chassis is expensive so I wont be doing that, the conversion is relative but I hope to keep costs down as all fabrication etc etc will be
done by me and some good friends. The desire for me is to have a Beetle that goes fast, different from the pack(that includes me now with a turbo
Liberty). The suspension will run full coilovers front and rear, utilising modified torsion bars and modified rear trailing arms, thats why I
enquired about coilover spring rates etc. It will be a different project hopefully not to lengthy and will endeavour to post updates. Also as the car
will still be registered as an early mod beetle, do not have to comply with 2006 rules. So if anybody has done modifications similar please tell me
THANKS
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 04:26 PM |
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Ah, sorry to be a wet blanket, but with such extensive architecture changes, there's NO chance of getting it registered as a Beetle in Australia. Go
to http://www.streetmachine.com.au and click on 'find engineer' (left side
of page) and consult with someone in your area before you get in too deep! :thumb
Pay your debts, CxxT
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sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 04:32 PM |
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TRACK CAR
Thanks vwcool already done cheers
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 07:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
Ah, sorry to be a wet blanket, but with such extensive architecture changes, there's NO chance of getting it registered as a Beetle in Australia. Go
to http://www.streetmachine.com.au and click on 'find engineer' (left side
of page) and consult with someone in your area before you get in too deep! :thumb
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I almost did this with my buggy until my missus insisted on having a back seat. 
My engineer was quite happy with it, after all the motor is already at the back of the car, mid mount means just turning it round so the gearbox pokes
out the back rather than the motor. Besides, if you can radically change the weight distribution by ripping off a beetle body and putting on a light
fibreglass body legally, just turning round the motor much less of a drama.
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sub60
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 07:35 PM |
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track car
Thanks Pete thats exactly what we are thinking. Works out there is still some room for a dicky seat, wouldnt sit it myself, but because of the cage
must have as a 2 seater. Ill let you know how it goes
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JVLR
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| posted on May 30th, 2006 at 11:33 PM |
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A midmount acheivement is only for tube chassis cars.That means dollars.A tube chassis will never be approved for everyday road driving.Stick to a IRS
pan move your gearbox forward a couple of inches and your budget and your pocket will be lighter and not empty.Take VWcools advice do more
homework.JVL
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 02:17 PM |
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I think you'll find it's not quite that complex JVL. The sump needs to be modded, the framehorns clearanced in a few spots and a rear subframe made
up to hold the gearbox still, but it's not rocket science. And as long as your engineer says it's fine then it's fine. So let him have a go, I
think you might be surprised. It's just that you got all caried away and went tube chassis on yours.
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JVLR
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 03:15 PM |
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Pete,have you done one?.....have you built a full tube chassis?....not sure what his budget is but a midmount will still cost $$$$
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 04:10 PM |
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If he's already putting a decent cage in it and tying that into the chassis, can be a whole lot more work. I spent a long time working this out
before I built my buggy. As I said, the only thing that stopped me was my missus.
And No, I haven't built a full tube chassis, far too much had work. But I have put a subaru motor/kombi box in the back of a buggy, and turning the
motor around is not a lot more complicated than that. I mean there are a million midmount sand rails in the states. Aren't there.
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JVLR
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 05:42 PM |
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Arent sandrails made as a tubular frame?most ive read are!...Turning everything around(midmount)means redesigning the rear end.(tube box section)That
means Engineers cert. for road approval.......JVL
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sub60
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 06:22 PM |
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track car
hi boys, please dont argue over me, Im not worth it?? On all my assessments you do not have to have a tube chassis, yes there are modifications to the
rear suspension and mounting points etc dont you think if you can hang a 200+hp motor off the end of a gearbox made to hold a 50-60hp motor, it would
in fact be better engineering science if that motor was properly mounted to the body driving through a gearbox of the same manufacturer with
modification made correctly with the guidance of an engineer, that in fact it would be OK. All modification need approval to a degree ie different
brakes, roll cages thats why we have engineers to help us! No doubt I will come across problem along the way, but it will get done, be very fast,
handle better, brake better(with different brakes-engineered) be safer(with cage brakes handling tyres etc etc)than a Beetle with a subi motor bolted
onto a vw gearbox. This with the guidance of the engineer and my money and time. Look forward to showing you. And as I said any helpful know how would
be appreciated.THANKS
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RENNWAGEN
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 08:37 PM |
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Well Said sub60. A while back there was a post about a guy who stuck the front of subi in the back of a bus If he had come on here talking about
BEFORE he did it a bunch of people would have told him he couldn't do it. So if you think you can, have an engineer who thinks you can please do it
so the rest of us can wish we had.
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sub60
A.k.a.: mike
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 08:57 PM |
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track car
Thanks, I will keep you posted, it will be a fun challenge
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JVLR
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 09:03 PM |
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Theres no arguing:thumb:JVL
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boof2332
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| posted on June 16th, 2006 at 07:56 PM |
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I love the idea, and worst case scenario is you have an unregistered TRACK WEAPON. Thats worst case. I am so excited that I'm going to do one as
well.
I am trying to down load from my phone a full tube chassis rock crawler that we built recently. Not that expensive in tube, and with a tube puller a
mig and a tig, you can pretty much make anything you want.
I am off to the shed to cut the back off a bug. Lets get some pics up asap. I have heaps, although this bloody phone do not want to send.
matt
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