| [ Total Views: 3703 | Total Replies: 53 | Thread Id: 55351 ] |
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 shaihulud
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 09:21 AM |
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WA VW Club needs a definition of a rat
The WA VW Club is considering having a rat classification in the judging at this years Day of the Volkswagen. The problem is that we are unsure as to
what constitutes a rat. We would welcome any suggestions from you as to what cars should be in the rat classification and what should not be there.
As I understand it there are several different ideas as to what constitutes a rat.
1 A rat is a mechanically excellent vehicle with good body work that is all sorts of mismatching colours, which has surface rust only and which has
been made up from parts that were ratted from around the workshop.
2 A rat is a mechanically indifferent, rusty looking old car with surface rust only, with its original panels present and that needs a paint job. I
would call that ratty, just like my daggy old Herbie.
3 A rat is a well restored car with a matt black paint job.
4 A rat has the look of a hot rod with a lowered front, cycle guards, matt black paint and red wire wheels from an old Ford.
4 A rat is a rat if the owner says so.
PLease help us out here as we want to include the rat classification for judging, but we don't want controversy on the day from people who disagree
with our definitions.
Thanks in anticipation.
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 65busser
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 11:08 AM |
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Rat is in the eye of the beholder. The rules are...there are no rules. Rat judging has to be down to the public doesn't it? It's an artform and no
one or two or three people can decide what's best. It's up to the individual as to what they like. Condition, as in concourse judging, is relatively
simple. Judging a rat is a personal thing.
Has to be peoples choice I reckon.
[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by 65busser ]
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 11:28 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 65busser
Rat is in the eye of the beholder. The rules are...there are no rules. Rat judging has to be down to the public doesn't it? It's an artform and no
one or two or three people can decide what's best. It's up to the individual as to what they like. Condition, as in concourse judging, is relatively
simple. Judging a rat is a personal thing.
Has to be peoples choice I reckon.
[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by 65busser ]
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No, it's not an artform - these cars are the result of a situation. Rats live in sheds of farms; that's where the term 'rat' comes from (as far as
I know) because these cars are usually found in sheds/garages...
But in recent times, it's been 'watered down' and faked to a certain degree. Do we have classes of 'real' rats and 'repro' rats with painted-on
rust and 'accidentally-on-purpose' dents?
People's choice, I reckon. Only way to do it without controversy
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Volkswagenboy
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 11:40 AM |
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So since I have real rust and dents on Veronika, that makes my car a rat?
Peoples choice is the only way to go for that one, too many different opinions.
-Staggers.
STAGGERS AUTOMOTIVE - Heavy Vehicle Diesel Specialist
JB CUSTOMS & CLASSICS - Car Builders
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decked dubby
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 12:00 PM |
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Flat black does not make a car a rat. The turm "rat" is used now for anything old that is not in good condition. A piece of shit car is not a rat,
its a piece of shit. A little bit of primer on a guard does not mean the car is rat.
.
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decked dubby
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 12:10 PM |
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This is a rat.....
This is not.......
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 12:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by decked dubby
Flat black does not make a car a rat. The turm "rat" is used now for anything old that is not in good condition. A piece of shit car is not a rat,
its a piece of shit.
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A-fuckin'-men!
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Volkswagenboy
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 01:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by decked dubby
Flat black does not make a car a rat. The turm "rat" is used now for anything old that is not in good condition. A piece of shit car is not a rat,
its a piece of shit. A little bit of primer on a guard does not mean the car is rat.
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That's good, because Veronika IS an old car that's not in good condition, but still she IS matt black... Mind you there's no visible dents anymore
(Thank you septone) but she's definately littered with them, as is for the rust.
But either way as an owner of a rat, and a son of a bloke who has rats (As well as show cars)... I can say that my car is a rat...
A peice of shit is a peice of shit, but there seems to be quite a few people here taking shitboxes with no real metal left, out of paddocks only to
have people say it's a rat.
So where do you draw the line?
If you think you have a rat, you have a rat.
If someone else thinks you have a shitbox so be it, that's their opinion.
No one person can decide what a rat is.
-Staggers.
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 MISS VDUB
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 01:18 PM |
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Boy Richard, have you opened a can of worms! As to decked dubby and Matt, im sure there is a more tactful way to have this discussion.
In Perth is personally dont feel we have all that many "rats" compared to over east where there is a good contingent of Hood Ride Rats. The Rat
debate is a huge one, as everyone has their opinion of what a Rat consists of. To me its a Rusty Volkswagen with accessories?
Ash x
1963 Single Cab Ute: "El Concreto"
1962 Baja Beetle: "Peanut"
1968 Porsche 912 SWB: "Pip"
1972 Kombi Snail: "The Snail"
2012 Skoda Octavia Scout: "Scout"
2016 Scirocco R: "Rocco"
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wacked1
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 01:39 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by decked dubby
This is a rat.....
This is not.......
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what he said i also think a true rat is a vehicle that is a little hard to come by like this and that bug that tim used to own it's a 58?
and this SC that stupid forgot to post ha ha ha
YOU HAVE JUST BEEN DAKED
don't worry it's a VW thing
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Hertz
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 02:33 PM |
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Put that yellow bus on a 6 inch beam, an inch of the ground rocking some trashed og fuchs, and I'd say you got yourself a rat. If you dont think its
an art form then you got your head up your arse. og, faked, matt black whatever, its not about the bloody paint finish, its about the attitude of the
dude behind the wheel. Brads spot on, peoples choice is the only way to judge it or else there becomes too much politics, and that goes against the
whole menality of the scene. If it looks ratty and cool its a rat. Personaly I f@#king hate the term rat, but whatever. My 2c.
Click the Beetle
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 02:39 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Hertz
Put that yellow bus on a 6 inch beam, an inch of the ground rocking some trashed og fuchs, and I'd say you got yourself a rat. If you dont think its
an art form then you got your head up your arse. og, faked, matt black whatever, its not about the bloody paint finish, its about the attitude of the
dude behind the wheel. Brads spot on, peoples choice is the only way to judge it or else there becomes too much politics, and that goes against the
whole menality of the scene. If it looks ratty and cool its a rat. Personaly I f@#king hate the term rat, but whatever. My 2c.
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yeah, well I must have my head up my arse then. Go and drive your pseudo, I rusted-it-myself rat. Maybe you could cruise with the 30-grand, 30-mile,
I'm a meany-biker-wanker Harley owners, too
[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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decked dubby
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 02:42 PM |
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For me, i think the perfect combination is a bit of "situation" coupled with "artform".
Nothing better than a "aged" VW slammed on a narrowed beam with the right wheels and accessories. mmmmm, tasty.
.
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Hertz
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 03:02 PM |
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True, some times artform can compensate situation, its about making a cool ride out someone elses junk. Anyone can hang someone else's art on their
walls, but that dont make em an artist.
[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by Hertz ]
Click the Beetle
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Ich fahre ein Kdf ein Tag
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 04:24 PM |
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RAT stands for Rusting Apart Transport? If it is rusty and it still drives it is a RAT i reckon....but if it has a ding in the guard it isnt a
rat....Rat i reckon must be atleast 40 years old...otherwise not a rat...cos any car can rust away...car has to survive years and years of rusting.
Then it deserves to be a rat...even better if it has original paintwork
Volkswagen ist der strassekoning - Vergnügen fahren finden!
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malcolm
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 04:28 PM |
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look at 30,s to 50,s rods.cars built on a budget from any parts they could find
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 04:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by malcolm
look at 30,s to 50,s rods.cars built on a budget from any parts they could find
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If you mean 'rods' built in the 50s from 30s cars, that's like modifying a VN Commodore today! 
Pay your debts, CxxT
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ColumBUS
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 05:21 PM |
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rat = the artform of turning something that would usualy be considered unattractive or indifferent into something that will make people look twice.
rat is all about attitude. the stance of the car, the panels and paint (or lack of) and the idealism behind the car is what makes it what it is.
where a cal looker is judged on its paint, chrome, interior, etc... the rat should be judged on how the car makes a person feel. and thus i dont think
the rat category can be brought down to a panel of judges. rather, an open rat category that is judged by the public should be the way to go.
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crewcabconnection
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 05:39 PM |
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It is an artform. Its a form of sub-culture. Takes the symantics of the Volkswagen and extends them though modification to create a visual metaphor,
which is an extension of the common values of that sub culture expressed in in personalised form.
So to be a rat, it has to be more than ratty. It has to in some way show an extension of the owners personal taste and style through positive effort,
rather than neglect alone. The visual clues are posted here, worn paint juxtaposed with new chrome rims for example. Pin stripes - being an artform,
tiki's, 50s cultural influences etc.,
To be a rat, it is more than just a neglected car. Elements of the overall appearance are contrived. The base canvas is extended into small glimpses
of show car, but in such a way that it support the sub cultural values of the owner.
If you're lost in the 50s, then that will be apparent, if you're into sleds, if you're into a particular art-movement, interested in a period of
history etc., then the vehicle concerned is a spring board to the expression of those interests.
If you look at the cutlure on Hoodride, look past the cars, check out some of the MySpace sites from the owners, see their wider influences etc., then
it is easy to argue that the Rat is an art form, expressing popular culture with the VW being the 'vehicle' of expression so to speak.
Its definately art. Look at the way the owners often 'pose' their vehicles in a particualar landscape - urban or not, look at the way they focus on
the semantics of the car and then exaggerate them, the pin stripes, the stencils and the way that they use typography to further explain it.
[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by crewcabconnection ]
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65busser
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 05:55 PM |
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What he said.
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malcolm
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 07:35 PM |
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vwcool tell that to rodders,rats started in the USA grass roots and its developed from there .
crewcabconnection very good explaination
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crewcabconnection
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 09:34 PM |
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thank you. From the DSK camp, the advent of the Rat is probably the single most important shift in thinking thats happened in recent years. No one
really aspires to anything more than a fun ride that compliments their lifestyle. Paint it or not paint it. Its a visual thing, a plaything. If it
gets you on the road, and lets you have fun thats the point.
Judging a rat seems a rather impossible task, as they are not really built for that purpose. I personally see the Rat sub-culture as an anti-culture,
which has sprung out of the show car culture itself. To judge it you are going to have to creative with the criteria ... and you're really judging
creativity and individuality, and by its nature is opposed to the established nature of show and shine.
Not that Im bagging people for building superb machines ... but its like deciding which is better modenism or post-modernism.
There is a difference between a try-hard rat, and something that has come out of the owners imagination and enthusiasm, if you are trying to build a
rat, then don't, you've missed the point. Owning a rat is all about the people, the shared good times and driving fun ... which is where the irony
comes in, as looking at a rat, the general public would wonder a) why don't they fix it and b) how the hell does it get rego followed by c) I wish I
was daring enough or passionate enough about something to get pleasure out of something like that.
Like people have said, may rats have plenty of money poured into them, its just that the need to paint and perfect the body is not as important as
having something that is an extension of thier particular values and interests.
I cant see anyway in which you could apply established judging criteria to a rat. The owner(s) are probably not interested in a trophy anyway, and
trying to meld show car values to anti-show car values in not really going to work for either sub culture. Best leave it alone I reckon.
Having crapped on about all that, I do think that later stuff does not lend itself to the Rat look, however there are plenty of looks availble for
those people to buy into. I could for example, not really see a super-bug as something rat-fiends would scout for. Then again, the German look in
super-bugs is supurb. But its a different mentality.
The good news is that people that want to get into this type of self-expression can do it very cheaply, and connect with people that are like-minded.
So the positive end is that you can get something early, or rescue something from the compactor and give it a new lease of life for low $$$ and enjoy
it. Be that an oval, splitter, bay or whatever.
If you are yet to get the difference between a piece of shit and a rat clear in your own mind, then its probably that you don't subscribe to the
overall sub-culture sufficiently. Which is not a bad thing, as you'll probably be into something else which is good for that sub-set of dubbiness.
I think that the general rise of the rat, and the growing acceptance of them in established vw culture is a massive shot in the arm, and certainly had
an influence on the growing numbers of 'new dubbers' that are getting into the 'scene', if indeed there is a 'scene'.
I can't get enough of Hoodride stuff, love the culture, the art and the mental things that they are willing to do in the name of a good time. Its
probably the most significant sub-culture in the VW culture at the moment, and is a child of technology. The look is global, and the internet has been
key to people looking and getting inspired from all corners of the world to get out and have fun.
Its interesting to see see how low-tech and low-brow cars are often owned by technofiles. Surely people into use and live with technology as a part of
their daily existance would want to drive hi-tech machines ... but not.
I find the whole thing facinating ... it continues to re-invent itself so often, that its impossible to lable, and the spin off art/music/fashion/tech
that drives it both influences and is influence by it.
Jont judge it, just sit back, grab a beer, build a MySpace site and join in (if you want to).
Great post ... now off for my Hoodride Fix and Cruise MySpace for more sub-dubbery.
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malcolm
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 09:48 PM |
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crewcab have you check out this site
http://airpix.skynetblogs.be/?date=20060712&number=96&unit=months#3505580
AIRPIX
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crewcabconnection
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 09:53 PM |
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thats the shit ay. Good find, guess Ive just lost another hour a day....lol....VWs and Photoshop...mmmmmmmmmm
I want this...now...
[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by crewcabconnection ]
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malcolm
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 09:55 PM |
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links ,links,links:thumb
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 09:58 PM |
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So, ahh, what's Cal-Look, then, kiddies?
And how am I going to judge 'lifestyle', 'good times' and 'sub-culture' and 'fun times' from a car sitting in front of me?
Fair dinkum, some of you blokes need to get your head out of the clouds
[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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65busser
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 09:58 PM |
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The good thing is there are clubs like the WA VW Club who are willing to open the door to new ideas. There's a chance the same thing will happen here
in Victoria at the DOVW. There are owners who would like to be accepted and recognised, and associations who are willing to accept and recognise.
Let's face it....if it's got a VW badge on it...you're a brother... (or sister).
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ren
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 11:09 PM |
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Great to hear that this is going to be a category in WA.
I agree with what crewcabconnection said, but think that some deliberately-made rats can be very cool too! Obviously a 'real' rat will take away
peoples choice honours, but let's not hate on the fake rats, or any subculture within the scene for that matter.
VWCOOL - if it's not your thing forget it, no need to try to patronise those who are in love with all things rat. |
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squizy
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 11:41 PM |
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One thing not mentioned, is that a rat does not have fibreglass guards.
Rats are about being minimalist.....getting the suspension, brakes and drivetrain strong to handle the power of the big bucks motor - all wrapped up
in a sleeper exterior.
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shaihulud
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| posted on August 17th, 2006 at 01:21 AM |
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Thanks for your input. It was very informative and at times entertaining. We will consider your advice. Keep it rolling.
Lobus. The WA Day of the VW this year will be on Sunday 3rd of December at G O Edwards Park in Burswood (where it was last year) from 10 am to 3 pm,
come rain or shine.
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