| [ Total Views: 1643 | Total Replies: 38 | Thread Id: 60307 ] |
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 twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 10:39 AM |
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how many here...
it appears changes are in the midst again.
so lets put it out there.
after all the forum is about members and their imput and respect response to fellow forum members.
the questions is...
would you like to see an offending 'post only' in a thread deleted... or the 'whole entire thread' deleted?
for example you start a thread and its valid and there are a lot of points made, with worthy jsutifiable and allowed responses. then you get the one
or two that take it off track. now you as the poster looking for answers and direction now potentially find all your thought, efforts and imput
gone.
maybe your response may help the direction of this forum. maybe not.
Simply Cruzin'...
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56astro
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 10:53 AM |
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What do ya reckon the chances are of getting +7400 votes recorded here?
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 11:08 AM |
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haha. what about the fact that it has had 34 views and only 5 replies...
Simply Cruzin'...
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blutopless2
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 12:37 PM |
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i would definitely like to see explanations... coz most of the time when reading posts it gets confusing if bits are deleted without knowing why
see.... air and water do mix 
1974 1300
1997 MK3 Golf GL
2003 NB Cabrio
2012 Golf VI GTI
2014 Audi A4 Quattro |
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StenGuns
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 12:54 PM |
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I thought I read an admin post that said this was technically difficult, logistically difficult and (as this is volunteer run) time consuming..
Isn't better to quarantine the entire thread and then review it at a convenient time?.. If you start editing "live" data you risk screwing all the
data.. Surely a stable AVD without some threads (or threads held for review) is better that no site at all..
I personally don't believe in all this libel bullshit but I aint the one at risk.. I am more pissed at AVD crashes with a restore to day's old
backups.. The "loss of threads and posts" then is more severe and impacts more people than the odd thread that gets slammed..
"would you like to see an offending 'post only' in a thread deleted... or the 'whole entire thread' deleted"
PS: I have also given up on conspiracy theories..
[ Edited on 9-2-07 by StenGuns ]
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amazeer
A.k.a.: Surly Duff
Bishop of Volkswagenism
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 02:40 PM |
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You've missed one other option. If deleting a post is such a danger, what about editing the post. I know this can be done... I do it to myself
regularly and I remember Kol did it to one of my posts when I was a naughty boy.
all it needs is a simple "edit: section/post removed due to ..... by moderator x"
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pangalactic
A.k.a.: jeezus cheeses
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 03:10 PM |
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I try not to get involved in the politics of the forum, even though ive been lurking on and off since it started, and even back to jims original old
forum. However, as in life, this forum isnt some utopian shangri la where we all agree with each other (thank f*ck, otherwise it would be as exciting
as watching beach cricket ) I dont see see eye to eye with alot of comments, and I guess like alot of forum members if I read a post I dont agree with
I just go to another post(or If im really upset ill go outside and kick the cat ).
As this forum is one of my 'happy' places that I visit from time to time, I would personally rather see the forum survive within the rules oulined
by the admins, with the loss of a few posts than to potentially not have the forum at all.
Any how what was the quetion again?
I guess i will now get death threats from people that love cats and beach cricket, or perhaps cats that play beach cricket.
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 03:53 PM |
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I've had posts edited and deleted, but on both ocassions I was U2Ued and it was explained. 99% of the time the mods on here to a very good job, in
fact they are more patient with turkeys than I would be. So let's quit bagging them and think before we type. If we all do that, they won't need to
edit or delete anything. 
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megalania
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 07:14 PM |
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I'm sure spook will reply.
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65no66busser
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 08:06 PM |
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"after all the forum is about members and their imput and respect response to fellow forum members."
The only thing you didn't mention 2G's was VW's.
If we could stick to the subject, we prob wouldn't have this thread.
Easier said than done of course.
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aussiebaja
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 09:47 PM |
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im in the same boat as pete,ive had them deleted and allways had an email to explain why ,,,so im happy
BETTER TO BE THOUGHT A FOOL THAN TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT:puke
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Hertz
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 09:56 PM |
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I thought Andrew mentioned that they are changing the software in order to be able to delete single post's.
But really does it matter that much. If everyone just enjoyed the forum for what it is without getting into politics, then it would be a nicer place
with more people posting.
Its easy to say people dont post because of the way this place is run, but from my conversations with folks, its more to do with this sort of shit
popping up time and again.
Click the Beetle
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jnr356
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 10:05 PM |
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i think the moderators do a great job as it is
these are guys ane gals that have families,wives, husbands,kids ,mortgages,etc,etc
and in these days of heavy litigation,to delete a "suspect" post for want of a better word,big deal if a post gets deleted
i think they have some tough calls and have to act quickly,for the sake of a dodgy post or shut down of the forum,i know which i prefer
jmho
mark
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LUFTMEISTER
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on February 9th, 2007 at 10:15 PM |
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I am cat that loves beach cricket and I am upset that a few people on here thinks that they can put sh................hang on a second have to spend 5
minutes licking my anus .............................
.......................................................................................................:P:thumb
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
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 vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
Super Administrator
a suffusion of yellow
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| posted on February 10th, 2007 at 04:53 AM |
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Folks, we are talking about a miniscule proportion of threads here:
In 2006, we moved ~ 60 threads. We had about 7000 members. We only one serious legal issue, which came >< this close to closing us down
In 2005, we moved ~ 70 threads. We had about 4000 members. We had a couple of serious legal issues
In 2004, we moved ~ 30 threads. We had about 2000 members. We had three or four serious legal issues
In 2003, we moved ~ 25 threads. We had about 1500 members. We had four or so serious legal issues
In total, we have moved around 185 out of 44272 threads, or 0.04% of all posts. That's pretty good for a public forum.
The suspended topics can be broadly classified as:
Defamatory posts against a member or company (the vast overwhelming majority, and legally our nemesis)
Posts about the defamatory posts, most often repeating the same thing which got the original post moved
Spats between members (cause a lot of reports and a lot of angst)
a few racist posts (illegal)
a few adult content (this is before BA... maybe they can be moved there)
one or two extreme bad taste (e.g. Steve Irwin)
In the above list, I cannot see why we would keep any part of a thread which is entirely about defaming a person or business. It'd
be incredibly stupid from a legal point of view. We've got out of a few close calls by acting fast and proving limited viewing to the other side
(thus restitution was much less). The posts asking where a moved post went usually re-iterate the original problem and thus are moved too.
Although it would be like watching Springer, the threads where two members are hammering each other are actually very moderator intensive. We get a
lot of reports about these posts, usually from the antagonists and their friends, typically 1 to 15 reports per post. If a thread goes on for a few
pages if we've been stupid enough to let it live, that quickly adds up to some real moderation time. I recall one particular episode between two long
time voluminous posters in BA last year. If we'd been on the ball more, I would have suggested the moderators to delete that thread far sooner rather
than letting it go. We lost two good members from that episode. So not only do these types of threads not have any point, they can seriously damage
the community. We generally tell each party to cool down, to avoid starting another thread, and give them advice on how to block U2Us from the other
person. I don't see any reason from a resource or community point of view to keep these threads, even though they can sometimes be salvaged. The
effort is just too large for so little return.
The racist posts will not be restored. Period. The Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001 is harsh to those who assist in publishing racist material
(up to 6 months jail for the offender and up to the same for us if we authorized them and turned a blind eye).
| Quote: | Racial vilification
unlawful
s. 7
(1) A person must not, on the ground of the race of another person or class of persons, engage in conduct that incites hatred against, serious
contempt for, or revulsion or severe ridicule of, that other person or class of persons.
(2) For the purposes of sub-section (1), conduct—
(a) may be constituted by a single occasion or by a number of occasions over a period of time; and
(b) may occur in or outside Victoria.
Note: "engage in conduct" includes use of the internet or e-mail to publish or transmit statements or other material.
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We will not be allowing racist filth to be published here, not only because it's illegal, but because I don't want to be anyone's bitch in jail for
something I didn't do and don't agree with. I absolutely despise low-life scum racists. Any thread with even a hint of racist crap has a very
limited life span. Luckily, we only have 20 or so racist threads. The ugly un-Australians who write those posts know that they're not welcome here
and don't seem to try very often.
The adult content threads from 2003 and 2004 could be moved to BA. I don't have a problem with those posts now that we have an area for adults only
stuff.
The bad taste items, well were bad taste and the entire point of the thread was to be in bad taste. Some of them could go in BA, but a few of them are
best to be left suspended. I'd be willing to try restoring them to BA and letting the BA denizens report those which should be truly deleted.
Our growth shows us that our current rules are working well. For us as admins, the number and seriousness of end-of-forum legal threats has gone down
as well. The types of threads suitable for individual post deletion are actually very small. I'm not sure what is gained from having threads full of
"POST DELETED" stuff.
Andrew
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twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
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| posted on February 11th, 2007 at 12:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by jnr356
i think the moderators do a great job as it is
these are guys ane gals that have families,wives, husbands,kids ,mortgages,etc,etc
and in these days of heavy litigation,to delete a "suspect" post for want of a better word,big deal if a post gets deleted
i think they have some tough calls and have to act quickly,for the sake of a dodgy post or shut down of the forum,i know which i prefer
jmho
mark
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i agree also. mods do a great job and with out them we would not have a forum.
| Quote: | 65no66busser...
"after all the forum is about members and their imput and respect response to fellow forum members."
The only thing you didn't mention 2G's was VW's.
If we could stick to the subject, we prob wouldn't have this thread.
Easier said than done of course.
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except this is a vw community and therefor obviously more than jsut vws will be discussed. we even have a thread on here about anna nicole smith...
i agree that the forum's core is vw's.
[ Edited on 11/2/2007 by twoguns ]
Simply Cruzin'...
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Spook
Custom Title Time!
Driving the 64 wheeler
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 08:19 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by megalania
I'm sure spook will reply.
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Yep.
Just had a computer free weekend. Apparently I have a family.
Now the numbers used to qualify Andrews argument are flawed.
Not wrong as such, but not as hard & fast as they could be.
Start with 7,400 members.
You MUST be a member to see most of the pics on the site.
You MUST be a member to view the for sale section.
You MUST be a member to reply.
Log out & see how much of the forum you can no longer view.
So the question is how many are members just to see the whole site?
The regular contributers would be closer to 500. 1000 at the top.
44,272 posts.
How many are single words, single pictures, single smilies??
I've done it, so have many others.
So while not doubting the actual numbers are correct, they are questionable as a reference point.
======================================
I am all for the deletion of offensive posts, but I would like to see the topic stay.
If a thread is a problem from the first sentence, fine, lose the lot. But it's a minority.
Here & now;
A perfectly legitimate topic is started, several legitimate replies appear, then one or two clowns, generally off topic, f#ck it all up.
The TOPIC disappears & maybe the originating author receives a u2u.
So the clowns are penalised, but so is everyone who had a genuine interest, and only 2 people know why.
My thoughts, and maybe it's only 27 years a unionist thinking;
Every member is entitled to start a topic.
Every member is entitled to view said topic (so can guests but without a lot of the visual effects)
Every member is entitled to reply.
If a thread disappears, why isn't every member entitled to know why??
But, having said that, why does the whole topic disappear when it's two or three posts that are the problem.
Delete the offensive post by all means, if it's recurring, delete it again, lock the topic, & put a post saying why.
The example I used earlier.
Squiz locks a topic with a post saying.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This topic has been locked owing to continual derogatory comments by Spook.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The mod has claimed responsibility.
The reason is there for all with an interest to see.
The legitimate comments are intact.
The blame has been place squarely in the lap of the individual member, where it belongs.
Where's the down side?
It also eliminates 95% of the agro "where has my thread gone?" posts. (which also end up deleted)
I say 95%, there will always be someone unhappy with the refs decision.
[ Edited on 12-2-2007 by Spook ]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
simply aircooled
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 08:59 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vanderaj
Folks, we are talking about a miniscule proportion of threads here:
Andrew
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if it is, then why is it not hard to do as suggested by the rules, and the majority here in this poll? it would mean less angst and obviously posts
that although worthwhile, they stray a little off track, are then kept in balance and everybody is happy.
Simply Cruzin'...
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Spook
Custom Title Time!
Driving the 64 wheeler
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 10:59 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
I've had posts edited and deleted, but on both ocassions I was U2Ued and it was explained. 99% of the time the mods on here to a very good job, in
fact they are more patient with turkeys than I would be. So let's quit bagging them and think before we type. If we all do that, they won't need to
edit or delete anything.
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Why is it, the minute someone says 'how about we try' they must be some sort of recalcitrant?
I apologise for singling out your post Pete, your not the only one that does it, just happen to be the handiest at the time.
No one is bagging anyone, no one is saying they don't do a good job. No one is saying the place is sh!t with the status quo.
But I challenge anyone to show me something man made that is SO GOOD, that there is no possible way of improving it.
And to prove my point, we are all volkswagen nuts here, but hands up anyone whose car is absolutely stock. Those completely satisfied with the way VW
built it, right down to the cross plys.
No doubt there are some, but they would be rare.
[ Edited on 12-2-2007 by Spook ]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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koolkarmakombi
Veteran Volks Folk
enkarmarising
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 11:40 AM |
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Well, I have voted for the delete post with message.
However,
I do believe though that too many ppl take all this too much to heart, get wound up and demand their rights.
Get over yourselves.
The fact is this is FREE service to us. Moderators do this for nothing, the businesses pay some to help with the hosting however the door is open
for anyone to take their bat and ball and go home.
513 views and 19 replies to date shows that 3.7% gave enough of a shit to reply, 94.3% got on with life....
The world isnt fair, nepotism and mates rates are everywhere and I bet those who wail most have their own networks of ppl to wheel and deal with, this
forum has the same.
Yes the rules are not applied iron clad to all, it shits me on occasions, esp the bullshit expressions of interest attempts to bypass the sale rules.
Heck I could advertise my whole life if the price was right. BUT I get over it and have a life.
I suggest those who find it all too much chill out or better still start your own forum. Then you can enforce the rules, do all the stuff that
current mods here dont. In fact you could allow all sorts of slander and scuttlebut at your own leisure.
So, I stay, it costs me nothing except to mention when I use suppliers who sponsor AVD to ensure it keeps going, I take the good, survive the bad and
get on with my life. Indeed in my life I have to take the good, survive the bad and enjoy myself.
Kool karma to all
[ Edited on 12-2-2007 by koolkarmakombi ]
This disclaimer does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my dog: don't quote me on that; don't
quote me on anything; this disclaimer is subject to change without notice; text is slightly enlarged to show detail; resemblance to actual persons,
living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; dry clean only; do not bend, fold, or mutilate; anchovies or jalapenos added to this disclaimer
upon request; your mileage may vary; no substitutions are allowed; for a limited time only while supplies last; offer void where prohibited; this
disclaimer is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied
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56astro
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1772
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Mood: Pobjoy Powered with twin ignition & soon to be EFI'd
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 12:53 PM |
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Yep,
and over 83% of respondants just want the rules applied as they are written.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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frenzix
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2742
Threads: 195
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 05:14 PM |
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Why can i hear a broken record spining back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth
back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth
It's getting a little old , and your all starting to sound like a bunch of whinging kids. Who cares who typed what and who didn't dot their I's..
it's the internet.
Tim
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pangalactic
A.k.a.: jeezus cheeses
Seriously Crusin Dubber
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 05:30 PM |
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Mate, i think youve got it wrong, broken records in the southern hemisphere go forth/ back , not back/ forth. dont want to be picky but im a stickler
for details.
:tree
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frenzix
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2742
Threads: 195
Registered: December 8th, 2003
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 05:37 PM |
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haha see , now that's funny. A little humour doesnt go astray!
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twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
simply aircooled
Posts: 4275
Threads: 226
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Location: city, sydney.
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Grey
Mood: simply cruizin'
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 05:39 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by frenzix
It's getting a little old , and your all starting to sound like a bunch of whinging kids. Who cares who typed what and who didn't dot their I's..
it's the internet.
Tim
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sorry tim.
[*you are right tim. no need to comment on your attitude. i apologise. your actions are enough*].
it is simply about the rules as they stand and them being applied. there is no need for your negative imput.
actually, as a side note, it is this sort of post, as you have graciously demonstrated, that does nothing for this thread other than introducing a
personal insult against other forum users. the kind of posts we are talking about.
thankyou.
[ Edited on 12/2/2007 by twoguns ]
Simply Cruzin'...
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frenzix
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2742
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 07:26 PM |
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my poor attitude? thanks for the personal attack. I'm sure avd members can see who has the poor attitudes around here. It's threads like this that
bring down a good running forum.. The select few who continue to whinge after whinge about bullshit.
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StenGuns
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2147
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 07:35 PM |
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"Well one day I was at home threatening the kids when I looks out through the hole in the wall and sees this tank pull up and out gets one of
Dinsdale's boys, so he comes in nice and friendly and says Dinsdale wants to have a word with me, so he chains me to the back of the tank and takes
me for a scrape round to Dinsdale's place and Dinsdale's there in the conversation pit with Doug and Charles Paisley, the baby crusher, and two film
producers and a man they called 'Kierkegaard', who just sat there biting the heads of whippets and Dinsdale says 'I hear you've been a naughty boy
Clement' and he splits me nostrils open and saws me leg off and pulls me liver out and I tell him my name's not Clement and then... he loses his
temper and nails me head to the floor."
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StenGuns
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2147
Threads: 236
Registered: March 1st, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 07:37 PM |
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By the way.. did anyone see the thread on my new ute.. I'm stoked!!!
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frenzix
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2742
Threads: 195
Registered: December 8th, 2003
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 07:38 PM |
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link?
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crewcabconnection
Custom Title Time!
Being Sid James
Posts: 1922
Threads: 293
Registered: April 22nd, 2003
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Mood: Looking forward to week 10
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| posted on February 12th, 2007 at 08:28 PM |
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Delete the offending comment at the discretion of the moderator. Or edit at the discretion of the moderator. Leave explanation if required. If mod not
sure, then move post pending mod to mod discussion.
Avoid people who get the buzz off slagging off people and generally they've done it before and will do it again.
If someone feels there is a better way to do it, then go an do it. If you don't like the work the mods are doing here, tell them directly.
If you step over the line (sorry Das, Bruce lead me astray), then read what the mod has said - and discuss or comply. It's natural that people will
see things and do things different to the next person. That dont make it wrong, just different.
AVD has always been a 'lively' place ... but stomping on people will result in getting a U2U that will remind people to play nice. Everyone has the
option of throwing a hissy fit and starting their own utopian forum if they really can't stick it I guess.
Loves a lolcat
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